Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

Tim Draper regarding cryptocurrencies:  "you really want one to succeed."

[1713975962]

1713975962

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

can you link to imgur? similar to you do here, just use the url instead of bbcode.. i dunno, haven't tried, but i'd guess it'S this way

With imgur extension for Chrome, I just right-click on the image, click "rehost image" then CTRL+V to paste the imgur URL anywhere. Takes literally 2 seconds.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

This is probably some of most bullish news of the past few months:

Before we get into the where, let’s detail the news: Overstock plans to offer its vendors discounts and terms that will encourage them to start taking bitcoin, or reward ones that already do, and offer to pay its employees in bitcoin as well, Mr. Byrne said.

“We’re going to start giving sort of special deals to the vendors who want to be paid in bitcoin,” he said during a podcast interview. That might include paying vendors a week early, he said. “It’s all about building. If we can get employees taking it, and vendors taking it, and customers paying for it, then it all becomes a virtuous circle.”

When this starts happening, we'll see the real fireworks. Closed loops is a game-changer. It makes $10K or $100K per coin in the fairly near future start to look obvious.

[cypherdoc]

Allaire is starting to complain.  just last week Circle board member Hearn was complaining as well.  not to mention Allaire didn't win any auction blocks.  they must not be getting what they want and there must be trouble brewing underneath with their rollout.  

“The whole industry should be contributing to the IP of bitcoin,” Allaire told CoinDesk ahead of the Bitcoin Finance 2014 conference in Dublin on 2nd July. “The reality is today that we’re shut out.”

http://www.coindesk.com/circle-ceo-jeremy-allaire-issues-challenge-bitcoins-core-developers/

unfortunately, the newcomers who were late are going to continue to push for changes to the main protocol to "let them in".  we must resist any such proposals that risk damage to the protocol.

edit:  Vitalik Buterin once again displays his ignorance.  another bitter wannabe.

[justusranvier]

edit:  Vitalik Buterin once again displays his ignorance.  another bitter wannabe.

Where were all these people when the cypherpunks were doing the hard work of figuring out what money is, and how to make it better?

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/b-money/

I am fascinated by Tim May's crypto-anarchy. Unlike the communities traditionally associated with the word "anarchy", in a crypto-anarchy the government is not temporarily destroyed but permanently forbidden and permanently unnecessary. It's a community where the threat of violence is impotent because violence is impossible, and violence is impossible because its participants cannot be linked to their true names or physical locations.

Until now it's not clear, even theoretically, how such a community could operate. A community is defined by the cooperation of its participants, and efficient cooperation requires a medium of exchange (money) and a way to enforce contracts. Traditionally these services have been provided by the government or government sponsored institutions and only to legal entities. In this article I describe a protocol by which these services can be provided to and by untraceable entities.

I will actually describe two protocols. The first one is impractical, because it makes heavy use of a synchronous and unjammable anonymous broadcast channel. However it will motivate the second, more practical protocol. In both cases I will assume the existence of an untraceable network, where senders and receivers are identified only by digital pseudonyms (i.e. public keys) and every messages is signed by its sender and encrypted to its receiver.

In the first protocol, every participant maintains a (seperate) database of how much money belongs to each pseudonym. These accounts collectively define the ownership of money, and how these accounts are updated is the subject of this protocol.

1. The creation of money. Anyone can create money by broadcasting the solution to a previously unsolved computational problem. The only conditions are that it must be easy to determine how much computing effort it took to solve the problem and the solution must otherwise have no value, either practical or intellectual. The number of monetary units created is equal to the cost of the computing effort in terms of a standard basket of commodities. For example if a problem takes 100 hours to solve on the computer that solves it most economically, and it takes 3 standard baskets to purchase 100 hours of computing time on that computer on the open market, then upon the broadcast of the solution to that problem everyone credits the broadcaster's account by 3 units.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Allaire is starting to complain.  
http://www.coindesk.com/circle-ceo-jeremy-allaire-issues-challenge-bitcoins-core-developers/

Big lol at the volatility remark.  You would think these people would understand bitcoin before they try to become "captains of industry"....

[cypherdoc]

Allaire is starting to complain.  
http://www.coindesk.com/circle-ceo-jeremy-allaire-issues-challenge-bitcoins-core-developers/

Big lol at the volatility remark.  You would think these people would understand bitcoin before they try to become "captains of industry"....

How about just basic market dynamics of a new fledgling currency?

[FNG]

Allaire is starting to complain.  
http://www.coindesk.com/circle-ceo-jeremy-allaire-issues-challenge-bitcoins-core-developers/

Big lol at the volatility remark.  You would think these people would understand bitcoin before they try to become "captains of industry"....

How about just basic market dynamics of a new fledgling currency?

It's supposed to jump to the $Trillions without any volatility

 

 

[justusranvier]

You would think these people would understand bitcoin before they try to become "captains of industry"....

Nope.

we've revealed some ultimate truths and clarity about what money is and how it works and almost immediately another layer new layer of ignorance has grown on top ... a new layer but the same ignorance that buried these truths for a few centuries

[FNG]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-02/brics-are-morphing-anti-dollar-alliance

“I think the work on ruble-yuan swap line will finalized in the nearest future and the way for ruble-yuan settlement will be open. Moreover, we are not the only ones with such initiatives. We know about the statements made by Mr. Noyer, chairman of the Bank of France. As a retaliation for what Americans have done to BNP Paribas, he opined that the trade with China must be done in yuan or euro.”

 

[Adrian-x]

You would think these people would understand bitcoin before they try to become "captains of industry"....

Nope.

we've revealed some ultimate truths and clarity about what money is and how it works and almost immediately another layer new layer of ignorance has grown on top ... a new layer but the same ignorance that buried these truths for a few centuries

It is sad but only those who understand the above know what will work with more confidence, for the rest there will be lots of bitter when they miss the boat, again. It's tough, to the ignorant, help just sounds like trolling.

[windjc]

This is probably some of most bullish news of the past few months:

Before we get into the where, let’s detail the news: Overstock plans to offer its vendors discounts and terms that will encourage them to start taking bitcoin, or reward ones that already do, and offer to pay its employees in bitcoin as well, Mr. Byrne said.

“We’re going to start giving sort of special deals to the vendors who want to be paid in bitcoin,” he said during a podcast interview. That might include paying vendors a week early, he said. “It’s all about building. If we can get employees taking it, and vendors taking it, and customers paying for it, then it all becomes a virtuous circle.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/07/02/bitbeat-overstock-boosts-commitment-to-bitcoin-draper-holding-presser/


Edit: http://panichodl.com/

Yes, this is very bullish. If Overstock sets a precedent for others to follow, it becomes a entirely new ballgame. Entirely.

[wachtwoord]

This is probably some of most bullish news of the past few months:

Before we get into the where, let’s detail the news: Overstock plans to offer its vendors discounts and terms that will encourage them to start taking bitcoin, or reward ones that already do, and offer to pay its employees in bitcoin as well, Mr. Byrne said.

“We’re going to start giving sort of special deals to the vendors who want to be paid in bitcoin,” he said during a podcast interview. That might include paying vendors a week early, he said. “It’s all about building. If we can get employees taking it, and vendors taking it, and customers paying for it, then it all becomes a virtuous circle.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/07/02/bitbeat-overstock-boosts-commitment-to-bitcoin-draper-holding-presser/


Edit: http://panichodl.com/

Yes, this is very bullish. If Overstock sets a precedent for others to follow, it becomes a entirely new ballgame. Entirely.

Indeed, opting out of fiat is what it's all about. Opting out isn't feasible until the circle is completed.

[World]

COIN ETF likely in November (bloomberg)
Brace Yourself for the Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF

[wachtwoord]

COIN ETF likely in November (bloomberg)
Brace Yourself for the Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF

That's not at all what they say in the article.

They say that at any time 100s of potential ETF are somewhere in the process and it doesn't guarantee anything. Just every hurdle they do take makes it more likely. November was just mentioned because November 2014 is exactly one decade after the launch of GLD.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Allaire is starting to complain.  just last week Circle board member Hearn was complaining as well.  not to mention Allaire didn't win any auction blocks.  they must not be getting what they want and there must be trouble brewing underneath with their rollout.  

“The whole industry should be contributing to the IP of bitcoin,” Allaire told CoinDesk ahead of the Bitcoin Finance 2014 conference in Dublin on 2nd July. “The reality is today that we’re shut out.”

http://www.coindesk.com/circle-ceo-jeremy-allaire-issues-challenge-bitcoins-core-developers/

unfortunately, the newcomers who were late are going to continue to push for changes to the main protocol to "let them in".  we must resist any such proposals that risk damage to the protocol.

edit:  Vitalik Buterin once again displays his ignorance.  another bitter wannabe.

The number of misconceptions running around on reddit (and among newbs here; and apparently even among the VCs) is getting so high now that I'm thinking some kind of "grand sweep" of myths is becoming necessary. Maybe a Bitcoin Myths website or resource, but focusing on the less obvious misconceptions that even otherwise intelligent people like Vitalik have.

Obviously a lot of these would be economics points, and due to long-running controversies such as "deflation is bad," there'd need to be some crystal-clear diagrammatic or video illustrations that put such fallacies to rest definitively. I'd recommend something done in a single Prezi-based zoomable wiki presentation format (via prezi.com), rolled out to many youtube videos showing certain tailored aspects of that same visual wiki to counter each specific misunderstanding, perhaps with some voice narration added. That is, each video would be a tour of a certain section or sections of the central Bitcoin Myths Prezi-based wiki with some additional voiceover for clarity.

Here's a halfway decent prezi presentation on Bitcoin, for an example: http://prezi.com/a9rkl6sifz5u/bitcoin/ ...but I think there is a lot more that the format allows for that people haven't used yet. A full visual wiki as video creation source material - I don't know if this has really been done.

[cypherdoc]

i'm wondering what it is that Allaire and Hearn's are unhappy about in the core protocol?  must have something to do with tx throughput if i had to guess.  maybe expanding the block size or tx speed?  that would make sense as Allaire has said before that he really wants to see Bitcoin being "used" worldwide.  and that would explain his willingness to exchange at no fee cost to customers.  he mainly sees it as a payment system and not as a store of value even though as the protocol stands now it can satisfy both those needs.  and this is what he is missing.

unfortunately, i'm beginning to see parallels btwn Allaire's Circle model and Back's Sidechain proposal.  although both these guys are smart, successful entrepreneurs they both missed Bitcoin early on.  they want to enter now but are looking to absolutely minimize their risk doing so.  at first, i thought in Allaire's case, this only involved stroking the regulators so as to be seen as a favored boy from that perspective.  now, we're seeing it is more.  the easiest way to ensure a risk free venture is to make a change to the rules core protocol to favor their own business models so as to gain some semblance of control of the situation and create a first mover advantage so to speak.  that's how crony capitalism works; co-opt the ppl in charge (a few core devs), change the rules to your favor, and off you go. problem is, in an open source protocol like Bitcoin, that is never how it should work.  any major protocol changes should favor everyone equally and not change everyone's investment assumptions who had entered before you.  maybe those 2 are just getting risk averse in their old age but the solution from day 1 for both of them is to "just get in NOW".  the growth in the Bitcoin system continues at a torrid rate and the longer you wait the further behind you fall.  both would be in a far better position to suggest changes if they were seen to have had a POS in the system as it stands.  i shouldn't pick on those 2 alone; there are plenty of others like Vitalik and Ethereum who complain about the way Bitcoin is structured currently and want to change it to their vision of how it should function. 

and don't get me wrong; i'm not in favor of stasis.  if any of these groups can convince me that changes to the core protocol are necessary and good for Bitcoin, so be it.  problem is, none of what they have proposed are "real" problems but instead "perceived" problems.  Bitcoin for some reason doesn't conform to their vision of the world.  until then, by all means, continue to innovate but do it on top of the core protocol as a higher layer.  but remember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

for every great investment, most ppl lose money. every day that goes by, it becomes clearer as to just who those losers will be. that's b/c in the times of adversity for that investment, their knowledge of that investment fails them and they bail.  in this case, these ppl's lack of true understanding of Bitcoin has paralyzed them to the point of inaction.  and it may be too late for them. 

[cypherdoc]

i went back to look at the devs involved in the latest release of Bitcoin 0.9.2.1 and here's what i see in the credits:

Credits
--------

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this release:

- Addy Yeow
- Altoidnerd
- Andrea D'Amore
- Andreas Schildbach
- Bardi Harborow
- Brandon Dahler
- Bryan Bishop
- Chris Beams
- Christian von Roques
- Cory Fields
- Cozz Lovan
- daniel
- Daniel Newton
- David A. Harding
- ditto-b
- duanemoody
- Eric S. Bullington
- Fabian Raetz
- Gavin Andresen
- Gregory Maxwell
- gubatron
- Haakon Nilsen
- harry
- Hector Jusforgues
- Isidoro Ghezzi
- Jeff Garzik
- Johnathan Corgan
- jtimon
- Kamil Domanski
- langerhans
- Luke Dashjr
- Manuel Araoz
- Mark Friedenbach
- Matt Corallo
- Matthew Bogosian
- Meeh
- Michael Ford
- Michagogo
- Mikael Wikman
- Mike Hearn
- olalonde
- paveljanik
- peryaudo
- Philip Kaufmann
- philsong
- Pieter Wuille
- R E Broadley
- richierichrawr
- Rune K. Svendsen
- rxl
- shshshsh
- Simon de la Rouviere
- Stuart Cardall
- super3
- Telepatheic
- Thomas Zander
- Torstein Husebø
- Warren Togami
- Wladimir J. van der Laan
- Yoichi Hirai


i guess by Mike Hearn's definition, "they didn't build that".

[_mr_e]

Development is still moving slow as molasses, the blocksize limit isn't getting any attention, and there is no viable solutions the massive elephant in the room, ghash. Those guys are up to something, there is no way they can continue providing a 0% fee pool unless they are up to something. I don't know if they have been coopted by the russian mafia or what but they are likely amassing huge amounts of owned hardware and they are not doing it for the basic profit incentive... there is something much larger at play here. While the developers are off having their childish pissing matches we need people to step up and actually *solve* something.

[cypherdoc]

Development is still moving slow as molasses, the blocksize limit isn't getting any attention, and there is no viable solutions the massive elephant in the room, ghash. Those guys are up to something, there is no way they can continue providing a 0% fee pool unless they are up to something. I don't know if they have been coopted by the russian mafia or what but they are likely amassing huge amounts of owned hardware and they are not doing it for the basic profit incentive... there is something much larger at play here. While the developers are off having their childish pissing matches we need people to step up and actually *solve* something.

they're at 37% right now.  not ideal but certainly not anything to get alarmed about.  sure, if they get over 51% again we might consider some changes.  but then, it might never happen again, just like with Deepbit and BTCGuild.

do you have any evidence that they're "up to something"?  that by itself is no reason to make major protocol changes.  they may just be trying to build market share with the 0% fee structure.  if so, it is not a sustainable model in the long run and eventually they will institute a fee which would clamp down on their growth.  that's my guess as to what's happening.