"Increasing support stopping rate of price declines" -- What do you guys think?  Its a wedge. Every TA trader knows this. So what? Either break up or down violently. Gamblers take position here. Everyone else GTFO and wait for trend signal. Whales use small volume to move market one direction or the other. Unless you have inside info GTFO! |
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Imagine this:
person A has no money and is working 50% of his time to get paycheck, rest of his time he uses to sleep and be with family. 100% time used
person B has money, and can hire other people to do job instead of him , and he gets his own cut, therefore, he earns money without wasting time to do so, allowing him to spread his business more and more, earning more, and with no time wasted on actually doing anything.
there's also a word for this ; modern slavery.
Comparing yourself to slaves is an insult to real slaves |
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To me, it seems like keynesianism today is about fooling the masses into spending, reducing their self governance, adding government power and pouring their wealth into the pockets of elites.
That has nothing to do with Keynes. Keynes is macro not micro. Furthermore, Keynes isn't political he doesn't care about power of govt. Only that govt should use its power because they have that power Keynes says aggregate demand drives production. In times of recession, AD decreases. Recession can set off deflationary spiral. Max potential output sits there doing nothing and you get rise in unemployment. If govt can artificially stimulate AD via stimulus spending then they should. Keynes isn't against debt, if debt is used to backstop deflationary spiral. But Keynes also says when equilibrium is reached then debt should be paid off. Keynes proposes that govt use their power on counter cyclical policies |
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I don't understand this logic, so they will stop selling and pay their electricity cost out of pocket? which will end up costing them more money out of pocket. No, they will sell Bitcoin at any market price to get at least something back to pay for their hardware and electricity. If anything, dropping price will prompt them to sell even more if they have hoarded some coins, so they could afford to pay their bills.
Miners probably will pay for electricity from own money in hope BTC/$ will ever rise instead of selling bitcoins for pittances. Where would they get this money from? Bond offering? LOL |
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All these fools perpetuating a meme while their worth is evaporating. Oh yes HODL young man! HODL to zero
In the future you can tell your kids your tales of HODLing
It's zero or the moon, one or the other. Can't take the risk? Don't HODL. Wow! Great trading advice. Or you cut your losses and buy some under 100 or less.  |
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All these fools perpetuating a meme while their worth is evaporating. Oh yes HODL young man! HODL to zero
In the future you can tell your kids your tales of HODLing
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This aint bloody enough yet. Capitulation only started
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Gabage
Even a broken clock is right 2 times a day... just saying. I was right 100% time a day, so don't keep saying. "shrugs"... and I should care why? I dont know your post history nor do I care. The thing that I find highly interesting all you haters cheering for the fall of BTC, why the hell are you here? Is your life that pathetic where you have to troll and watch people lose money? Its disgusting you would rather be at the mercy of a few unelected rich people who pull the string with whatever currency you own. You think your all safe and cozy in your paper money, but you will be one of those poor fools who gets blindsided when they come after YOUR money. There are many great things that can be done with digital currency, too bad your too blinded by your little cheer-leading for the fall of such things to actually see the potential. I hope you lose it all. Serves you right for not wanting to work and just gambling like a true tard. At least some people here have sense and sell it now not get greedy like idiots and lose it all. It's not about me, it's about the truth. Bitcoin has failed, it's a scam. Don't be delusional. Stop sprouting about fiat like a conspiracy tard. Fiat is much more stable than this piece of shit. The irony is they probably bought in because some other fool pumped it to sell to them. New baghodlers became the greater fool. Greater fool theory says bubbles always burst |
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Prices usually drop in Sunday night. Possible 400 on Sunday
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Sorry to hear that man. Dont listen to the guys who tell you to HODL. Wait for a bounce and get out 90%. Reduce your risk. Keep a few bitcoins for specualtion.
Use that money and buy SPY (S&P etf.) Just hold that until retirement
Follow Ryans thread. Hes pretty good w TA
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So if we hit $433 and move up out of your box, EW says that will be our bottom and we should begin climbing in waves toward a new ATH?
No he didnt say that. Lol. You gotta confirm a reversal first and that takes a long time |
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Risto wrong yet again. Does anyone actually take this guy seriously?
His call was that the bottom would be the $340 low of April 10. He is so far correct. I happen to agree that $340 was the bottom. I usually don't feed the trolls, but Chuckee, fallllling, antibitcoin... etc. are just littering their excrement all over the place. I figured I'd make a small contribution in trying to keep it in check. He called it at $500 and changed the thread title. Lame Just look at the date of OP aug 15 and look what happened on that date. Big drop to 500 and bounce. Flash crash didnt happen til aug 18 |
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Dipped again, bought again. Cheap coins for everyone who wants them!
Your cheap coins are now expensive. And no one is buying be ause they know they will get dumped on 10 minutes later. According to the long term trendline, $450 is our historical support. If there ever was a time to buy, this is it! Price will rise soon, just like last year in September. This is what's called a "bear trap". No new money and baghodlers have no more dry powder. Bubble burst! |
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Thats the most abbreviated balance sheet I've ever seen. What's the point of this?
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i think the infusion that will get it going and probably has already begun is that from the gold and silver community. with an estimated $7T in gold reserves worldwide, just a small infusion will jack the BTC price to a level that will make the world sit up and notice.
I have to agree. I think more and more goldbugs will convert to bitcoin. Goldbugs hate bitcoin. When its convenient bitbugs throw around metallism or Peter Schiff. Thats about the only similarity between these 2 groups |
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Whats the point of discussing money from pre 1907? We're in 2014. Half the money doesnt even originate from central bank system.
Why do you think GFC 2008 happened?
If you are learning economics from conspiracy books, then theres no point to discuss
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The motto for Wall Street has always been to find an edge - an arbitrage model, a high frequency algo, a long/short pair trade, credit vs. equity, offsetting risk to retail investors, fundamental analysis, event-driven plays etc - and then to lever up and trade on that edge. Rinse and repeat. Everything they knew and everything I was able to explain about Bitcoin didn’t fit that mode of operations at all. The proposition sounded like Wall Street was supposed to buy coins next because they were sophisticated enough to understand Bitcoin and its potential and had the capital at hand to speculate on it.
…And they were supposed to do that with 100% cash on no leverage, and then just park the bitcoins and bank on the next wave of adoption and investors to come. In essence, Wall Street will be there when Bitcoin is big enough for them to take their cut or ‘edge’ on the daily trading volumes. They will be there to provide liquidity and offer various investment vehicles. They are not going to be a pawn in the Bitcoin enthusiasts’ plan - as a source of significant speculative capital to pump Bitcoin up another 10x. from: http://jackcliu.com/post/97546140332/why-wall-street-has-yet-to-enter-bitcoinThere's this persistent idea that "Wall Street" is going to "drive the next bubble". Alternatively that idea is expressed as "once big money arrives" (we're going to the moon). Just finished reading this post by Jack C. Liu, and I wanted to share it here because it puts into not-too-many words what I've been thinking myself for a long time now: don't count on Wall Street to drive the next price jump. I'm sure you will (correctly) point out that this Liu guy is just another dude with an opinion. Absolutely true. I'm not claiming this post is interesting because of deep insider knowledge. It is interesting in my opinion because it makes sense. Let me know what you think. I agree w the article. I used to work in wall street and i know a lot of guys who manage hedge funds. Most of the guys I know are pretty smart. Like ivy league w degrees in financial engineering. Most bitcoiners get the economics wrong. VCs only invested in companies like Coinbase. Doesnt matter the price cause coinbase make money as a dealer Hedge funds make money from hedging. Wall street doesnt operate how this forum thinks |
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If somebody is holding two assets, Gold and IOU's, don't you think there is less risk in holding the Gold? IOU's are great, but not when a company defaults and you're left holding their worthless paper. Gold only has it's value because the market gives it value. There is very little useful things you can do with gold and if you were to "use" gold then you would be loosing out on a lot of value. You would make the same argument that the market could stop giving gold it's value
I agree, everything has and maintains its value because other people (the market) value it. Gold could be a useless chunk of metal, just like IOU's could be defaulted on. However, if I was to prioritize the risk levels of both Gold and IOUs, I would rank Gold as the less risky asset to hold. If I could be absolutely guaranteed of future repayment of the IOU, then I'd agree that the future productivity would be more valuable than Gold. The world we live in doesn't have those guarantees and that's part of the reason why we use these tools to store value in the first place. Gold as a store of value has it's history behind it and therefore almost zero chance the market will stop giving gold it's value (unless Bitcoin completely takes its place). That is why they say fiat currency, bonds, etc. all have what's called "counter-party risk". The risk of the issuer defaulting is much higher than the risk of the whole market deciding Gold is worthless. You forgot liquidity preference. If you sold a house you should accept 500K cash instead of equivalent in gold. You can do more w the cash. Like buy gold w it if that's what you want As long term store I'd use Gold over fiat. For transacting and liquidity sure I'd take cash and then allocate it to whatever I wanted (stocks, gold, etc.) Nobody uses cash for long term store. LOL They have portfolio of assets |
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If somebody is holding two assets, Gold and IOU's, don't you think there is less risk in holding the Gold? IOU's are great, but not when a company defaults and you're left holding their worthless paper. Gold only has it's value because the market gives it value. There is very little useful things you can do with gold and if you were to "use" gold then you would be loosing out on a lot of value. You would make the same argument that the market could stop giving gold it's value
I agree, everything has and maintains its value because other people (the market) value it. Gold could be a useless chunk of metal, just like IOU's could be defaulted on. However, if I was to prioritize the risk levels of both Gold and IOUs, I would rank Gold as the less risky asset to hold. If I could be absolutely guaranteed of future repayment of the IOU, then I'd agree that the future productivity would be more valuable than Gold. The world we live in doesn't have those guarantees and that's part of the reason why we use these tools to store value in the first place. Gold as a store of value has it's history behind it and therefore almost zero chance the market will stop giving gold it's value (unless Bitcoin completely takes its place). That is why they say fiat currency, bonds, etc. all have what's called "counter-party risk". The risk of the issuer defaulting is much higher than the risk of the whole market deciding Gold is worthless. You forgot liquidity preference. If you sold a house you should accept 500K cash instead of equivalent in gold. You can do more w the cash. Like buy gold w it if that's what you want |
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Wrong again. Even central bankers know gold is money...that's why they hoard it.
They also hoard a greater amount of Mortgage Backed Securities and Treasuries. Its called an asset not money They hoard the asset-based money to offset the risk of debt-based money. What are you talking about? All fiat money is credit. FTFY. It's only fiat money that is credit. Precious metals and cryptocurrencies are not credit. They aren't issued in the form of debt, but as an asset. The reasons other Central Banks hold USD because they can use it to settle debts in USD. The reason USD has value because its backed by assets like gold, securities but mistly treasuries. Treasuries are debt of USA (US Treasury)
No, they hold USD to back their currencies. This started when the USD was pegged to gold. At the time, they agreed to back their currencies with gold indirectly because they could redeem USD for gold as needed. Also, central banks don't need fiat to settle debt because they don't accumulate debt, they issue debt loans. None of this has to do with hoarding
The value of money (which is what this thread is about) has EVERYTHING to do with hoarding. When no one is willing to hold a particular form of money, it's worthless. It's simple supply and demand. No demand means no value. Edit: Should have said "...they issue loans." Gold is not money anymore its an asset. Cryptos might become money but currently it isnt. Bitcoins were money inside silk road market. But not outside Foreign currencies arent backed by dollars theyre backed by their own treasuries. Foreign central banks might hold dollars as assets. But its not to back their money. Its because they need to setlle debts in dollars Your idea of money isnt modern. Search modern monetary theory to have a better understanding Gold has been money for thousands of years and will very likely continue to be for many years into the future. As long as there are people that continue to hoard it as a store of wealth, it's money. Whether you choose to accept this fact is irrelevant. It still remains a fact. Bitcoin is also money because there are people that are willing to hoard it. Bitcoin or gold may not be your money of choice, but as long as it is the money of choice for anyone that produces goods or provides services then they are both money. I should have said that foreign central banks "used to hold USD to back their currencies." Fiat currencies aren't backed by anything now because the issuers will not allow you to redeem them for anything. Printing new units of currency and buying government debt with it is not backing--it's debasing. The functions of money have not ever and will not ever change. This "modern monetary theory" that you refer to is nothing more than an elaborate scam. I understand it well and I'm quite familiar with how it works. When you decide that you're ready to be deprogrammed, I recommend you start off with reading The Creature from Jekyll Island. From looking at the reviews, it appears to have helped a lot of people in your shoes. Money are instruments used to settle debts. Period. Gold is not money anymore. It hasnt been money for a long time. Doesnt mean its worthless. There is still market value because its a traded commodity. Same as soybeans MMT is just an economic theory that describes money in a modern economy. What Im telling you is not political. Its just how it works. What does Jekyll Island have to do with anything? Reading that kind of stuff isn't how you learn about economics Bernanke said gold is not money. He calls it an asset. Search it on YouTube. And here you are claiming central banks hoard gold because its money. |
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