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1081  Economy / Economics / Re: Economic Devastation on: September 07, 2014, 05:46:14 AM
This 'Dark Enlightenment' theory is a blatant case of pattern over-matching, as are many of the theories of 'AnonyMint' I'm reading.
My estimate is that he lives in the US. I can sense by the distorted world-view, surely a fault of the propaganda ministry of his country.
The guy is smart, make no mistake, but as it happen with most of the smart ones, when they start to see patterns and verify that their deductions were right, then they start over-matching relations among events. Many of them seems unable to control their environmental predictor in the brain. The verification process of a deduction, in the realm of society and politics, is a difficult task that has more to do with art than with science. This is because exact verification is impossible, especially at the bottom level of society (you and me).
The economic-focused details of his theories have something right in them, but even this is wasted in the surrounding confusion.

It is funny that these threads theorize so many weird and implausible things, all the while major historical events are unfolding right now.
It seems like for someone is better to look at the sun, instead of the country below, when they finally reach the mountaintop.


Edit:
I just realized how much of this 'warning: this is for high IQ audience' crap there is around here. Oh boy. What has happened for the last 50 years and is happening now is very simple to understand. So simple that it has been necessary to cover it in a fog of confusion.
Everybody can understand anything, if he want. Don't listen to people that tell you that you are too stupid to understand something. Maybe they are too stupid to explain it.

Isn't Dark Enlightenment a neo-fascist movement?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/jamiebartlett/100012093/meet-the-dark-enlightenment-sophisticated-neo-fascism-thats-spreading-fast-on-the-net/
1082  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Calling the Bottom on: September 07, 2014, 05:38:57 AM
September was not half-way. Price was about $120 then.

If it now rises to $660, many are tempted to sell.

DON'T.

Obvious pump here.  Do people take this guy seriously?  Obvious that he was a bag that he want to dump so he needs greater fools to drive the price up so he can have profit

I see this game in penny stock land all the time
1083  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Calling the Bottom on: September 07, 2014, 05:37:06 AM
Tumbling addresses as I understand are not part of the final count as they end up empty.

I am assuming that this graph counts addresses that appear in the blockchain (as output addresses) for the first time on each day, and does not subtract addresses that have become empty on that day.  Is this second assumption incorrect?

(Sigh, blockchain.info should have explained more precisely what is being shown in each chart...)

In the extreme tumbling scenario I just described, there're would be 150'000 new addresses created every day, and all would be non-empty at the end of the day.
I've possibly misunderstood the data I assumed it reflected the number of unique address used, as in, in use, as opposed to used up.

I think more over the network effect adds value to bitcoin, if there is no way to measure it so be it, it's my opinion this graph reflects that growth. Now that it can me manipulated because we have related it to Metcalfe's law does little to prove otherwise


Quote
While the measurements may not be accurate I feel confident they are magnitudes more accurate than the tools to manage existing monetary policies.

Banks and businesses are required to report their activity to their government, for tax and other purposes, and there are many thousands of people whose full-fime job is to extract useful statistics from that raw data.  For example, the published numbers on credit card usage are probably accurate to 2 digits, at least; and we know the subtotals by country and purpose.  Ditto for total salaries, total company income, etc.

With regards to the above accounting accuracy of reported numbers Bitcoin is more accurate.
The metrics that I was referring to are the ones used in economic calculations like the GDP, and the CPI, the former is more favorable when we make ill use of our natural resources and create sick unhappy people, we measure that and say wow we're growing fast lets inflate the money supply. And the latter is manipulate to excluded the things the money inflation effects, mainly housing and energy, so politicians can say look we do a good job if you're unhappy it's because you're part of the 38.4 percent not taking your antidepressants we fort so hard to secure in Afghanistan.

In Bitcoin manipulating the data makes ill use of excess investment capital but it has no effect on the consumers ability to save, and has no impact on entrepreneurs who find more effective ways to distribute resources equitably.

Macroeconomics is for central planning, Bitcoin is for distributed planning, Austrian heavyweights have elegantly expected the futility in using the data to measure economic success, they give a great framework for why Bitcoin will make a more effective money. The quantitative analysis of the Bitcoin data just identifies market need more acutely, and gives one a competitive advantage in business, not in how to manipulate a centralized system.  

Network effects (Metcalf's Law) has nothing to do with price.  Its only describes user adoption.  Bitcoin price is purely speculative.  It can be $1000 or $50 and still be used for for the same amount of transactions.  You have to consider velocity.

I'm not sure if I agree Austrians are proponents of bitcoin.  I was reading some bitcoin articles on Mises.org and it seems like the guys who comment who knew what they are talking about were opponents of bitcoin.  I only see more bitcoiners claiming to be Austrian & the Austrians response was that bitcoiners don't understand Austrian Economics
1084  Economy / Economics / Re: Why we give respect to Rich and no-respect to poor? on: September 07, 2014, 05:26:20 AM
How do bankers determine if a particular loan is a good risk to take? They need to evaluate the borrower's income and repayment history and assets to see if the borrower is an appropriate risk. If they are then a loan will be given, if they are not a good risk then it will not. This is not an easy job to measure this kind of risk and it takes a lot of legwork.

Yep nobody understands how risky this is and thinks banks make free money on interest.  They make money by taking risk on lending.  If there is a default then they also lose their money.  Banks go insolvent all the time
1085  Economy / Economics / Re: Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism? on: September 07, 2014, 05:23:04 AM
For the fishing stock : Does it need gov regulation ? no.
But the problem can only be solved if sea is privatized.

In a free market, a landlord has the right to impose quota on his territory to prevent over farming that would make his land worth less in the future.
If the price of tuna rises due to scarcity, the landlord have even more incentive to prevent over farming, thus equilibrium is restored.

It is like saying : do we need to protect cows ?
My response is no : On one hand you can just breed them, and on the other hand, it is not in the interest of the landlord to extinguish the treasure of his land.

You want to stop over fishing ? Privatize the sea, and see miracle happens.

There is no problem that can't be solved without relying on the free will of all parties.
It would not prevent "sea owners" to unionize with their free will to coordinate effort and impose uniform fishing quota on bigger scale.
Such union is essential to solve "prisonner's dilemna" (game theory) type of problems.

Privatize the sea?Huh?  LOL.  OK who gets to own the ocean?  First come first serve?  Then I claim I own the Atlantic Ocean.  Haha.  No actually Exxon owns the Atlantic because they have some oil drilling platforms there no fishing says Exxon or you pay us royalty on each fish.   Roll Eyes No, I'm Venezuela and screw Exxon.  I'll just send some warships and blow up their drilling platforms.   Grin Try some critical thinking before you post this nonsense

Too bad for you there is already a govt agency called NOAA that deals with the very issue of overfishing.  You see commercial fisheries don't care about fish stock.  They have no scientific interest to study this kind of stuff.  There job is to catch fish and pay the bills.  That why NOAA exists.  Then NOAA works w commercial fisheries through regulations to replenish fish stock.  There's already been a reduction in overfishing thanks to NOAA.  That's a fact.  Whatever that other guy said about Canada, I don't believe it until he cites a study.  You guys don't even know about the industries you are talking about and you think "privatize everything!" is always the solution.  That is naive

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/stories/2013/05/05_02_13status_of_stocks_2012.html

Also you don't understand game theory.  Game theory says the individual is mostly like make the choice that benefit himself the most  NOT benefit the whole group



Get back there and pick apart the argument, or stfu, your choice.

Oh Please,  present an argument first.  Adults don't need to argue with children

Just read the reports from NOAA.  There has been improvement of fish stocks since 2000 after NOAA regulations.  If you are gonna make a dubious claim show some evidence or STFU, your choice

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/fisheries_eco/status_of_fisheries/archive/2013/status_of_stocks_2013_web.pdf

I wrote it out line by line you fucking idiot, you called my logic sketchy and then refused to critique it.

Fishing stocks problem was caused by lack of ownership, solved by exercising rights private of ownership?

Fucking wow, just made my whole argument for me.



I did refute it.  I pointed out your fallacy.  You confuse correlation w causation. 

When faced with a losing debate, the loser resorts to ad hominems.  If you want to make a case that regulations causes decline in fish stock then show me some studies.  Otherwise stop talking about this subject.

I already gave you link to report from NOAA that shows the opposite
1086  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Do People Believe Bitcoin Will Replace Fiat? on: September 07, 2014, 05:09:59 AM
A point that seems to be missed is that Bitcoin is already replacing fiat to the extent of approx $30 million per day. If bitcoin/crypto did not exist fiat would have to be used for most of that volume of transaction. It is a small beginning and currently the $ value and transaction volume is increasing incrementally at approx 3% per month average.
Wow poor logical thinking.  Its not zero sum.  Those bit coins came into existence through mining.  They didn't replace any fiat because no fiat got taken out of circulation
Speak for yourself. My bitcoins replaced my fiat.

Your fiat still exists its just in someone else's possession  Roll Eyes

Start with 100 fiats. You own 100 fiats, and fiats are 100% of the world's economy

Mine 10 fiats worth of bitcoins. Trade your 10 fiats worth of bitcoins to someone else. Now there is 110 fiats worth of wealth in the world. Actual fiats take up only 90.9% of the world's economy. Bitcoins took over 9.1% of fiats in the world's economy.


When everyone exchanges their fiat for bitcoins, only you will still have any fiat. Good luck spending your fiat then.

And when is this supposed to happen?  100 years later after I'm dead?  LOL  Roll Eyes

I don't think fiats will exist for 100 more years. It will only take dollars and/or euros to collapse for fiats to end and the world to switch to bitcoin. Euro fiat is only about 25 years old, and dollar fiat is only about 45 years old. They are both very new, and historically fiats have an average lifespan of about 27 years.

Your math is wrong because you are only calculation M0.  Also you assume fiat supply is fixed while BTC supply is inflating

The USD "fiat" started from "greenbacks" in Civil War time.  The EUR has been only around since 2002. 

Anyways, none of that is important.  The only important thing is that money is a creature of the state not a creature of the market.  In other words, if USD collapse the US govt will just replace it w another currency.  Bitcoin will never replace USD unless the govt allows it to. 
1087  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Do People Believe Bitcoin Will Replace Fiat? on: September 07, 2014, 04:21:32 AM

When everyone exchanges their fiat for bitcoins, only you will still have any fiat. Good luck spending your fiat then.

And when is this supposed to happen?  100 years later after I'm dead?  LOL  Roll Eyes
1088  Economy / Economics / Re: Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism? on: September 07, 2014, 03:53:48 AM
For the fishing stock : Does it need gov regulation ? no.
But the problem can only be solved if sea is privatized.

In a free market, a landlord has the right to impose quota on his territory to prevent over farming that would make his land worth less in the future.
If the price of tuna rises due to scarcity, the landlord have even more incentive to prevent over farming, thus equilibrium is restored.

It is like saying : do we need to protect cows ?
My response is no : On one hand you can just breed them, and on the other hand, it is not in the interest of the landlord to extinguish the treasure of his land.

You want to stop over fishing ? Privatize the sea, and see miracle happens.

There is no problem that can't be solved without relying on the free will of all parties.
It would not prevent "sea owners" to unionize with their free will to coordinate effort and impose uniform fishing quota on bigger scale.
Such union is essential to solve "prisonner's dilemna" (game theory) type of problems.

Privatize the sea?Huh?  LOL.  OK who gets to own the ocean?  First come first serve?  Then I claim I own the Atlantic Ocean.  Haha.  No actually Exxon owns the Atlantic because they have some oil drilling platforms there no fishing says Exxon or you pay us royalty on each fish.   Roll Eyes No, I'm Venezuela and screw Exxon.  I'll just send some warships and blow up their drilling platforms.   Grin Try some critical thinking before you post this nonsense

Too bad for you there is already a govt agency called NOAA that deals with the very issue of overfishing.  You see commercial fisheries don't care about fish stock.  They have no scientific interest to study this kind of stuff.  There job is to catch fish and pay the bills.  That why NOAA exists.  Then NOAA works w commercial fisheries through regulations to replenish fish stock.  There's already been a reduction in overfishing thanks to NOAA.  That's a fact.  Whatever that other guy said about Canada, I don't believe it until he cites a study.  You guys don't even know about the industries you are talking about and you think "privatize everything!" is always the solution.  That is naive

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/stories/2013/05/05_02_13status_of_stocks_2012.html

Also you don't understand game theory.  Game theory says the individual is mostly like make the choice that benefit himself the most  NOT benefit the whole group



Get back there and pick apart the argument, or stfu, your choice.

Oh Please,  present an argument first.  Adults don't need to argue with children

Just read the reports from NOAA.  There has been improvement of fish stocks since 2000 after NOAA regulations.  If you are gonna make a dubious claim show some evidence or STFU, your choice

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/fisheries_eco/status_of_fisheries/archive/2013/status_of_stocks_2013_web.pdf
1089  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Do People Believe Bitcoin Will Replace Fiat? on: September 07, 2014, 03:43:24 AM
A point that seems to be missed is that Bitcoin is already replacing fiat to the extent of approx $30 million per day. If bitcoin/crypto did not exist fiat would have to be used for most of that volume of transaction. It is a small beginning and currently the $ value and transaction volume is increasing incrementally at approx 3% per month average.


 

Wow poor logical thinking.  Its not zero sum.  Those bit coins came into existence through mining.  They didn't replace any fiat because no fiat got taken out of circulation
Speak for yourself. My bitcoins replaced my fiat.

Your fiat still exists its just in someone else's possession  Roll Eyes
Wrong. That fiat is their's, not mine.

So if you can't see it, then it cease to exist?  Mmmmkay.  Gotcha.   Roll Eyes
1090  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Do People Believe Bitcoin Will Replace Fiat? on: September 07, 2014, 03:30:07 AM
A point that seems to be missed is that Bitcoin is already replacing fiat to the extent of approx $30 million per day. If bitcoin/crypto did not exist fiat would have to be used for most of that volume of transaction. It is a small beginning and currently the $ value and transaction volume is increasing incrementally at approx 3% per month average.


 

Wow poor logical thinking.  Its not zero sum.  Those bit coins came into existence through mining.  They didn't replace any fiat because no fiat got taken out of circulation
Speak for yourself. My bitcoins replaced my fiat.

Your fiat still exists its just in someone else's possession  Roll Eyes
1091  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Do People Believe Bitcoin Will Replace Fiat? on: September 07, 2014, 03:24:53 AM
A point that seems to be missed is that Bitcoin is already replacing fiat to the extent of approx $30 million per day. If bitcoin/crypto did not exist fiat would have to be used for most of that volume of transaction. It is a small beginning and currently the $ value and transaction volume is increasing incrementally at approx 3% per month average.


 

Wow poor logical thinking.  Its not zero sum.  Those bit coins came into existence through mining.  They didn't replace any fiat because no fiat got taken out of circulation
1092  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: FBI Reveals Exactly How They Hacked Silk Road on: September 07, 2014, 03:14:54 AM
Thats cool that they have to wear the jackets with giant FBI letters on it in the office
1093  Economy / Economics / Re: Confusing Capitalism with Fractional Reserve Banking on: September 07, 2014, 03:02:18 AM
These guys talk as if unemployment or outsourcing doesn't exist
1094  Economy / Economics / Re: Why we give respect to Rich and no-respect to poor? on: September 07, 2014, 03:00:19 AM

This freaking system is artificially drawing smart people in finance, when they could create new business and job instead. (Remind me a book called "smart people should build things")



You mean build stuff like a chat app that you can take nude selfies that self destruct?  People follow the money.  I thought you were a "free market" proponent
1095  Economy / Economics / Re: Does bitcoin suffer from Gresham's law? on: September 07, 2014, 02:56:13 AM
Quote
I suggest to read that David Graeber book.  Hes an anthropologist.  Smith got it wrong and mainstream economics just followed Smith.  So Smith created the myth of how money came into being

When presented w anthropological evidence most economists accept Graeber version

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/09/david-graeber-on-the-invention-of-money-–-notes-on-sex-adventure-monomaniacal-sociopathy-and-the-true-function-of-economics.html

I read your link, but there is no relation about how gold became a medium of exchange that we talked about.

Quote
What anthropologists have in fact observed where money is not used is not a system of explicit lending and borrowing, but a very broad system of non-enumerated credits and debts. In most such societies, if a neighbor wants some possession of yours, it usually suffices simply to praise it (“what a magnificent pig!”); the response is to immediately hand it over, accompanied by much insistence that this is a gift and the donor certainly would never want anything in return. In fact, the recipient now owes him a favor.

A "gift economy" as he calls it, is nothing but the invention of debt. You can call it a "favor", it does not change the meaning.
But as long as the concept of debt exists, it surprise me that your article does not talk about how actors of such economy could keep track of their debt without the need of money.
Money was created as a solution to the problem of keeping track of debt without any convenient writing system.

The only way to keep track of favor, without money, is ink and paper, both which was not yet invented.

Adam Smith advocated that money what invented because of coincidence of need problem of barter economy.
It does not contradict the fact that a "gift economy" after barter could be existing for a while, but I find it highly dubious because without money and convenient writing you can't possibly keep track of debt (or favor as he calls).
It is more believable that a socialist economy (where all actors share what they hunt) was existing in a tribe, than such gift economy.
Also they do not explain why, people have started to exchange ornament as money instead of continuing such a "gift economy", if it was not to solve the accountability problem.


The link is David Graeber explaining why Adam Smith and mainstream modern economics was wrong w regard to invention of money.  There was no barter economy.  The anthropological record doesn't show it.  Barter was used only with strangers --  someone that you are not likely to ever see again

Its called a "gift economy" because there was no unit of account.  Sometimes you give someone a few goats and you expect their daughter as an exchange.
1096  Economy / Economics / Re: Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism? on: September 07, 2014, 02:27:49 AM
For the fishing stock : Does it need gov regulation ? no.
But the problem can only be solved if sea is privatized.

In a free market, a landlord has the right to impose quota on his territory to prevent over farming that would make his land worth less in the future.
If the price of tuna rises due to scarcity, the landlord have even more incentive to prevent over farming, thus equilibrium is restored.

It is like saying : do we need to protect cows ?
My response is no : On one hand you can just breed them, and on the other hand, it is not in the interest of the landlord to extinguish the treasure of his land.

You want to stop over fishing ? Privatize the sea, and see miracle happens.

There is no problem that can't be solved without relying on the free will of all parties.
It would not prevent "sea owners" to unionize with their free will to coordinate effort and impose uniform fishing quota on bigger scale.
Such union is essential to solve "prisonner's dilemna" (game theory) type of problems.

Privatize the sea?Huh?  LOL.  OK who gets to own the ocean?  First come first serve?  Then I claim I own the Atlantic Ocean.  Haha.  No actually Exxon owns the Atlantic because they have some oil drilling platforms there no fishing says Exxon or you pay us royalty on each fish.   Roll Eyes No, I'm Venezuela and screw Exxon.  I'll just send some warships and blow up their drilling platforms.   Grin Try some critical thinking before you post this nonsense

Too bad for you there is already a govt agency called NOAA that deals with the very issue of overfishing.  You see commercial fisheries don't care about fish stock.  They have no scientific interest to study this kind of stuff.  There job is to catch fish and pay the bills.  That why NOAA exists.  Then NOAA works w commercial fisheries through regulations to replenish fish stock.  There's already been a reduction in overfishing thanks to NOAA.  That's a fact.  Whatever that other guy said about Canada, I don't believe it until he cites a study.  You guys don't even know about the industries you are talking about and you think "privatize everything!" is always the solution.  That is naive

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/stories/2013/05/05_02_13status_of_stocks_2012.html

Also you don't understand game theory.  Game theory says the individual is mostly like make the choice that benefit himself the most  NOT benefit the whole group

1097  Economy / Economics / Re: Does bitcoin suffer from Gresham's law? on: September 06, 2014, 03:20:44 PM
It does not suffer, just like gold never suffered for being a good money and lose its value. Bitcoin will be used mainly as a high powered money, as a store of value, it has international payment function, not like gold

Yeah, it will be gold but with the benefits of a worldwide digital currency, I dont think we'll see people paying buritos with BTC unless it gets an insane amount of adoption, almost defeating FIAT.

Gold became money because kings forced people to use it as money.  Unless we are forced to use bitcoin dont think itll be anything like gold

This is common myth, the usage of people came first, not authority.
King acted as a buyer of gold, which made it more precious, but he used that because people were using that.
The concept of "legal tender" is relatively new. (in france 1870)

Do you have citation for this? From the book Debt: The First 5000 Years.  The author Davud Graeber suggests that early economies were gift economies.  Then credit.  Then coinage

Gold and precious metal coins came from imperial expansion.  Rome taxed its citizens w gold coins.  They paid the armies w these gold coins so they can buy food and supplies during their campaigns

Gold was originally collected by the elites as ornament but wasnt used as money until coinage

Adam Smith talks a little bit about the history of money in "Of the Origin and Use of Money" of The Wealth of Nation. He explains that coinage did not came from oblivion, and was not monopoly of the state.
Coinage was the response to a practical problem : Being paid by weighting gold nuggets -or gold ornament- was hard, the weight needed to be perfectly precise and any small difference or error could cost a lot to the buyer or seller, also there was no way to assert the fineness of gold.
This is where coins get used for the first time, and was not monopoly of the state, but from privately owned mint.

The payment by gold nugget, came itself by the intrinsic value of gold to make nice ornament with it. (In fact, the reason why some libertarian do not believe in bitcoin is because it lacks the intrinsic value -or use value in mises terminology-, that permitted gold to become a medium of exchange in the first place)
By today terminilogy, we can say that ornament was the killer app of Gold, this is what pushed Gold into the masses. And it is true, Bitcoin has no killer app for now. :p

I suggest to read that David Graeber book.  Hes an anthropologist.  Smith got it wrong and mainstream economics just followed Smith.  So Smith created the myth of how money came into being

When presented w anthropological evidence most economists accept Graeber version

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/09/david-graeber-on-the-invention-of-money-–-notes-on-sex-adventure-monomaniacal-sociopathy-and-the-true-function-of-economics.html
1098  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 06, 2014, 04:05:43 AM


in all seriousness, shorts were in real danger last night, we all felt it, it was about to pop, magic fairy bear mother may not come to your rescue next time, cover your shorts, cover your shorts now!

or not

wtv

your choice.

It can breakout either way.  Experienced traders know this pattern.  This is where you reduce your position and wait for a breakout before confirming trend
1099  Economy / Economics / Re: The markets are rigged, central banks use printed money to buy stocks on: September 06, 2014, 04:00:42 AM
It's been the case for a while that stimulus is the only thing propping up the markets.  It's not a secret.  The question is how long it can continue like this before the inevitable crash happens.

Hold onto your butts.

There will never be a market crash, a crash only happens when there is no money. Now there are too much money in banks (Most of the QE money went into commercial bank's pocket in exchange of their MBS), they could easily support the stock market price

Then the crash of fiat money itself is even less possible. In principle, FED printed 4x money since 2008, then the price of everything should rise 4x, there will be hyperinflation, then everyone will dump their fiat money and the fiat money will worth nothing over night. However, most of those money went into bank's pocket and they don't spend a dime, they save them back to FED and receive an interest to spend, thus made the real amount of money in circulation almost non-change, that's also the reason the economy never fully recovered

So, banks have all the money they need to push up the price of anything they want, but they will carefully select some product first so that average Joe can not benefit from it (If everyone get easy money, there will be uncontrollable inflation thus threaten the life of their fiat money)



This is not entirely correct.  Look at M2 right before 2008 crash.  You are confusing reserves w 'pockets'

The 2008 crash was because there was a huge credit expansion then sudden contraction that was set off by bust of housing bubble.  You are correct that QE used was to address this situation
1100  Economy / Economics / Re: Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism? on: September 06, 2014, 03:47:48 AM


My logic is laid bare and flawless. Instead of hiding behind sophistry PICK APART THE LOGIC, WHERE DOES IT NOT HOLD TRUE?

And this is called deductive reasoning and this is exactly what science is. Science is the description of nature with deductively valid rules. This is physics, this is what I do.

All you demonstrated is formal fallacy

Your deduction:

If it rains the street is wet?
Is the street wet?  
Therefore it rained

This is a fucking straw man and has nothing to do with what I said.

IF THERE IS A FLAW IN MY REASONING THEN QUOTE THE FLAW AND EXPALIN IT!



here's your logic in a nutshell.

1.  Govt regulate fish stock
2.  fish stock decrease
3.  therefore regulations decreased fish stock.

The obvious answer is overfishing decrease fish stock & govt regulation isn't enough to overcome the decrease.  Duh!

Besides this you haven't even shown any empirical evidence of fish stock before vs after regulation.  Thats why I ask for citation or study
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