Hi, I've been asking for opinions about a proposal that's come up here in Scotland. We're going to the polls in the next month to decide whether we want to split from England and become an independent country - basically the end of the United Kingdom that's lasted 400 years. There's been plenty of discussion not only on whether we should, but whether we could (practically.) One of the major stumbling blocks is the use of GBP - the Bank of England has said a post-independent Scotland can't use it. Bit mean, but there you are. So the question came up - If Scotland needs a new currency, why not set up a State-Run Cryptocurrency?Here's my thoughts on the issue. http://cryptocurrencymadesimple.com/should-scotland-set-up-a-state-run-cryptocurrency/Also, it appears that Ecuador got there first: http://cryptocurrencymadesimple.com/ecuador-nationalise-cryptocurrency/Would love to here what you guys think. The Ecuador cryptocurrency will exist in parallel to the existing currency. It would be interesting to see if any country will ever get to having only a cryptocurrency. Its interesting that USD has been legal tender in Eucador since 2000. They dollarized their economy because inflation was 96.1% in 2000! Dropped to 22.4% in 2001. That is unbelievable This move is because they are straitjacketed by the USD. I hope it works out for them |
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Life without internet in 2010's is like life without electricity in 1990's. Not imaginable.  You mean 1890's?  |
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A stock is just an ownership in a company. The company doesn't even need to be public. You can incorporate and issue yourself a million shares if you want. Then sell some shares to investors who want to speculate that your company will do well in the future.
OP lacks basic knowledge. Instead of taking my advice to look up the meaning of 'stock' he prefers to be ignorant. Its not even that complex
We have to start with the assumption that he's comparing abstractions or there's really no debate. ...and I apologize if this seems like I'm splitting hairs. But "stock" generally refers to the equity shares a company offers to the public. Investment in private companies is usually via VC firms, angel investors, and large institutions, or from friends & family I guess (depending on size). Those investments wouldn't typically be called "stock" - and would actually be more like investing in bitcoin than owning stock in publicly traded companies is. If a share of stock you own say NFLX, BIDU, TSLA pays no dividends, has no material voting rights, will receive no money if the company goes bankrupt, and then you insist on referring to wikipedia to "PROVE" what a stock means, well then you are missing my entire point. We all feel better about what is written in a wikipedia article, however, that doesn't mean your stocks mean anything. In practice, a share or stock means nothing, you own a piece of fiction, a piece of a limited asset backed by NOTHING other than our collective delusion. Bitcoins and stocks are digital measures of value where the market agrees every day on their worth. Oh and if you own enough stocks, then maybe you have enough voting power to control the organization and make the changes you need to make your stocks worth more. Hmmm, Same can be said for Bitcoins. Dude give it a break. You obviously don't know what a stock is. I had an LLC and I issued stock to the co-founders and investors. When the LLC was sold the stock owners had claim on the assets. Also during the life of the LLC, we bought out one of the co-founders. A stock is just equity in a company Just because some stocks are used for speculation doesn't mean the definition of stock changes. Bitcoin is more like a commodity. Like owning bushels of corn or barrels of oil. This is so basic any high school student should understand Well since you owned an LLC, I think i will shut my dumb ass up. Thanks for setting my ass straight. Oh, btw I haven't changed my position, you sorry ass LLC shares are not what I am talking about. I am talking about BIDU on NASDAQ, that is what I am taling about. I know what you are talking about. Thats why I suggested you look up what a stock is. You ever seen "The Social Network". How Zuckerberg diluted his stock to cut out his co founders? Same company, same stock. Regardless if its public or private. We can debate whether BIDU is worth its current price. But there's no debating the definition of stock. |
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other threads still think we are heading down, hahaha we are one step ahead!
I don't think we can go down very far. Looks like support above 7777 is holding. As long as we don't dump our posts and HODL. 7777 support should hold |
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Why not just adopt Bitcoin itself as a main currency? You could even set up a fractional banking system based on top Bitcoin. The first government to do this is going to have a huge economic advantage for the rest of this century.
You know, it's REALLY difficult to do FRB with Bitcoin, since you are REALLY relying on having more people funneling in Bitcoins. And guess what happens when some-one wants to withdraw? Either you start funneling Bitcoins out of other's accounts, and they're left with the IOUs. And what happens when they want to withdraw, etc. It's possible, but difficult. That's why wallets were made, so people can be their own bank. And not have to go through the bureaucracy that comes with banks. And they can't be left with IOUs, ever. Either a Bitcoin is there or it's not. If you can do FRB w gold you can do it w bitcoins. The difference is if people have wallets then they dont need to keep their deposits in a bank. But loans would still exist and credit money would still exist. Banks dont really need deposit accounts these days to create loans. For example if you lease a car, the leasing bank creates credit without any deposit accounts |
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In my opinion bitcoin are exist just because of internet and when you shut down the internet bitcoin community will disappear.
Sadly he's right How will the Bitcoin community survive with it the internet? How will we trade our coins? How will the average user even get a hold of a Bitcoin without going through so much trouble like ringing around or exchanging in person? It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to grow any further if the internet is off. It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to SURVIVE. It just won't happen. As much as all of us dreamers want to believe that radio waves can submit transactions that's not what it is about. Besides, there will be much larger worries than Bitcoin if the internet does in fact shut off. Exactly... There are bigger worries if the internet dies as opposed to worrying about what will happen to Bitcoin. Chances are, however, that those with physical Bitcoins will start laughing at us (Maybe). In all honesty, internet dies, 40% of population dies, banking dies, and we return to the dark ages. You know the internet only existed since 90s, dont you? And are you aware how dependent we are on the internet now? Power, banking, basic necessities (Ordering and the like), this forum (And every other forum), people's facebook dependency, Some phone systems now (Some ISPs also provide phone service via Wifi), manufacturing, etc, are connected via the internet. Pre-90s was when there WASN'T any of this connection. Now, everything migrated to the internet, and we're now really dependent on its survival. You can't buy a plane ticket online if the internet goes down, and you can sometimes buy it at the door. How are your manufacturing managers supposed to communicate with China once satellite and wifi service is down? Basic utilities are often monitored via the internet, or information/changes that have to be made are shuttled back-and-forth via the internet. Oh, the internet went down? Guess we won't know about the electrical station that stopped working, and no-one can call us since the power's out... Yeah so we'll be inconvenienced. I doubt 40% of the population will die. We will adapt somehow |
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Why not just adopt Bitcoin itself as a main currency? You could even set up a fractional banking system based on top Bitcoin. The first government to do this is going to have a huge economic advantage for the rest of this century.
The problem is they can't control the money supply. In crisis, things like Greece would happen |
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But ism't the point of cryptocurrency that there's no central authority? All the freedome it can offer stems from that.
No the point is no Central Bank. |
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In my opinion bitcoin are exist just because of internet and when you shut down the internet bitcoin community will disappear.
Sadly he's right How will the Bitcoin community survive with it the internet? How will we trade our coins? How will the average user even get a hold of a Bitcoin without going through so much trouble like ringing around or exchanging in person? It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to grow any further if the internet is off. It'll be impossible for Bitcoin to SURVIVE. It just won't happen. As much as all of us dreamers want to believe that radio waves can submit transactions that's not what it is about. Besides, there will be much larger worries than Bitcoin if the internet does in fact shut off. Exactly... There are bigger worries if the internet dies as opposed to worrying about what will happen to Bitcoin. Chances are, however, that those with physical Bitcoins will start laughing at us (Maybe). In all honesty, internet dies, 40% of population dies, banking dies, and we return to the dark ages. You know the internet only existed since 90s, dont you? |
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A stock is just an ownership in a company. The company doesn't even need to be public. You can incorporate and issue yourself a million shares if you want. Then sell some shares to investors who want to speculate that your company will do well in the future.
OP lacks basic knowledge. Instead of taking my advice to look up the meaning of 'stock' he prefers to be ignorant. Its not even that complex
We have to start with the assumption that he's comparing abstractions or there's really no debate. ...and I apologize if this seems like I'm splitting hairs. But "stock" generally refers to the equity shares a company offers to the public. Investment in private companies is usually via VC firms, angel investors, and large institutions, or from friends & family I guess (depending on size). Those investments wouldn't typically be called "stock" - and would actually be more like investing in bitcoin than owning stock in publicly traded companies is. If a share of stock you own say NFLX, BIDU, TSLA pays no dividends, has no material voting rights, will receive no money if the company goes bankrupt, and then you insist on referring to wikipedia to "PROVE" what a stock means, well then you are missing my entire point. We all feel better about what is written in a wikipedia article, however, that doesn't mean your stocks mean anything. In practice, a share or stock means nothing, you own a piece of fiction, a piece of a limited asset backed by NOTHING other than our collective delusion. Bitcoins and stocks are digital measures of value where the market agrees every day on their worth. Oh and if you own enough stocks, then maybe you have enough voting power to control the organization and make the changes you need to make your stocks worth more. Hmmm, Same can be said for Bitcoins. Dude give it a break. You obviously don't know what a stock is. I had an LLC and I issued stock to the co-founders and investors. When the LLC was sold the stock owners had claim on the assets. Also during the life of the LLC, we bought out one of the co-founders. A stock is just equity in a company Just because some stocks are used for speculation doesn't mean the definition of stock changes. Bitcoin is more like a commodity. Like owning bushels of corn or barrels of oil. This is so basic any high school student should understand |
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This is a much more accurate description of what bitcoin is then how the OP describes bitcoin.
Owning bitcoin is like owing dollars, or euros, or yen. It is a currency.
it may be more accurate than OP's statement, but it's not the full story. it's like owning a currency and commodity (investment) rolled into one. there needs to be a new word for it, because that goes over most peoples' heads. How are bitcoins a commodity? Are all currencies a commodity? Its both a currency and a commodity. But not a stock. But as a currency theres not really any markets that are priced in BTC. Places like newegg, the goods are still priced in USD and coinbase or bitpay does conversion for you. I think its more similar to a commodity than currency. Trades like a commodity as well (volatile) |
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Its pretty funny. Good to see bitcoiners can make fun of themselves.
You you post this on reddit/buttcoin. That's where they laugh at bitcoiners
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Nah carrier pigeon way cooler
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A stock is just an ownership in a company. The company doesn't even need to be public. You can incorporate and issue yourself a million shares if you want. Then sell some shares to investors who want to speculate that your company will do well in the future.
OP lacks basic knowledge. Instead of taking my advice to look up the meaning of 'stock' he prefers to be ignorant. Its not even that complex
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Fiat currency is the greatest Ponzi scheme in all of history.
I would disagree. Fiat us generally backed by the economy of the country that printed the fiat. Are you f*#king kidding me? You are joking right? If not, that is a hilarious statement...you ought to become a comedian. If the currency and interest rate are regulated by market, then the statement "Fiat is generally backed by the economy(production and service) of the country" assessment is mostly correct. You cannot generally back fiat...it is either backed or not. As well, by the very classification of FIAT means that it is back by nothing but the "Faith and Credit of the Govt" Also, currency and interest rate are NOT regulated by the market...it is determined by the Federal reserve, specifically the FOMC. The two of you are spewing bullshit!! Faith and Credit doesn't mean jack shit either as the credit is just monetized debt. Quit playing games, man. Hardly anyone here knows the meaning of 'backed'. It means 'convertible to'. A long time ago when we had gold notes, "backed by gold" means convertible to gold. Nowadays, the Federal Reserve assets still have gold but mainly securities. So USD is only convertible to USD but its value is derived from Feds assets. On forex different currencies prices has to do w the issuing country's economic output amongst other things Bitcoin, however is pure speculation because its value is not derived from anything other than market forces. The closest we ever got to a bitcoin economy was silk road. Some people thinks the value of bitcoin is tied to the cost of production. Like how much it costs to mine 1 BTC. If you think this then you see bitcoin as a commodity not as a money Credit is money by definition, whether you have a moral objection to it or not |
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Can anyone explain how these work for USD swaps on Bitfinex from the prospective of the lender? I cant seem to find any clear information on the risk involved and how it really works. Right now on Bitfinex I can lend USD for around .14% per day. That seems like a very high ROI and am wondering how it can be this high, and what risk is involved.
The risk is bitfinex goes insolvent and you can't get your money back. Its high interest because you dont know the credit risk of borrower. And they use your money for speculatiing Bitfinex give margin accounts to their traders. So when the margined positions lose money bitfinex closes the trade. But if the traders account is underwater the trader is supposed to deposit more money. Its called a 'margin call' You can imagine what happens if there is a rapid drop and bitfinex can't dump the trades fast enough. They become illiquid. If the traders cant deposit money or if bitfinex can't borrow more money to get liquidity then insolvency. Similar thing as Bear Stearns or Lehman Bros If asset price keeps going then everyone happy. But if if doesn't then big crash. |
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Moments of "irrational exuberance" can occur with "rational" assets: real estate (for example).
I find the exuberance for bitcoin (and technologies like it) to be completely rational, and at the moment; understated, undervalued and misunderstood.
maybe that's the case with the rest of the world, but the bitcoin evangelists that i see here and otherwise.. are a little bit irrational. some people think bitcoin will eventually overtake currency and be a world standard for currency. The reason for some of the bitcoin evangelism is that our current money systems (mainly fiat money) is not working. We've grown accustomed to its dysfunction and we all need to believe that all is well and functioning smoothly (confidence playing a larger role in value than most will acknowledge). I see bitcoin as having the potential to be A world currency although not likely THE. There are some issues with bitcoin but there are also issues with fiat...long known and many times repeated. Its not because the money is not working. Its the regulations (lack of) thats not working |
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twiifm, you have misunderstood Gresham's law. It only applies to moneys having the same nominal value.
In my examples they have same nominal value |
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The dotcom bubble is tons and tons of shitty altcoins with no original innovation that prey on the foolishness of the general masses (since only the elite can comprehend the genius behind BTC).
Except a lot of altcoins are based on the same code as bitcoin. The mainm difference is the marketing |
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Yes Bitcoin is a stock. It is also a commodity. It's also asset. It's also currency. It's also an investment. It's also a protocol. It's also a public ledger. It's also anti-establishment. It's also a solution to a problem. It's also open source. It's also anonymity. It's also freedom. As long as you didn't say Bitcoin is just a stock, you're absolutely right yes threads like this focus too much on labels, and ignore its utility. bitcoin is stock-like, but it's not a stock. it's also currency-like, but it's not a currency. it's currently in a league of its own, and there is no direct comparison.. that's hwy it's so revolutionary. The purpose of my post is to help figure out how to value and predict the future of Bitcoin. It is actually the misunderstanding of labels that create a problem for deciding what Bitcoin is. If you contemplate what a stock actually is today, and I mean most stocks that the average person owns, then you realize that those stocks are digital assets that have value only because of consensus. What is the difference between Bitcoin and a share of lets say BIDU on NASDAQ? Over the years we have collectively agreed that BIDU value should be correlated to some composite of revenue, profit, and potential. It is collective fantasy that we value BIDU in any way at all, but as a group we all somehow agree that BIDU is tied to these "fundamentals" so we all can sleep at night or some pathetic reason. Huh? Look up the definition of "stock" Do some basic research on any stock of your choosing and maybe you won't be such a shill. What am I shilling? Did you look up 'stock' yet? A lot of things have prices that go up and down and is traded. Doesn't make it a stock |
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