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Nothing wrong w speculating but the replies are funny. Bitcoiners get defensive when someone calls them speculators. LOL
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Per OP's definition, buyers of an IPO are investors, but anyone buying after the IPO is not. Yet clearly without later buyers you would have no IPO buyers. OP has a very narrow view.
He didnt say that. Hes talking about dividend stocks. IPO stocks dont give dividends IPO stocks?? What? All stocks are first presented to the market as an IPO, or Initial Public Offering. That has nothing to do with dividends. Buyers of an IPO hope for price appreciation so they can see gains in their investment. The same can be said for buyers after the IPO. OP's definition is inconsistent with reality. Yes companies that just IPOd dont give dividends because theyre in a growth phase They give dividends later in their maturity. The OP said the dividend part is investment and the valuation is speculative. Nothing inconsistent here |
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Per OP's definition, buyers of an IPO are investors, but anyone buying after the IPO is not. Yet clearly without later buyers you would have no IPO buyers. OP has a very narrow view.
He didnt say that. Hes talking about dividend stocks. IPO stocks dont give dividends |
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So in reality having a solid options market would actually increase the liquidity of bitcoin but not necessarily decrease the volatility. But it's unlikely to increase the volatility, correct?
Correct Think of options as side bets. Traders use options because of leverage. So they are not buying or selling bitcoin they are trading contracts on the side betting if bitcoin goes up or down by a certain date. But options market makers are mostly writing the options. Its really risky for them to do this so in order to hedge these bets they buy or sell the underlying. Its called delta hedging. Delta us how much the option mives w the stock. The stock is one delta. The more "in the money" the higher the delta. Market makers don't care about direction. They make money on premium and the premium is priced using volatility When a product has options it gets traded a lot. But its the same shares being passed back and forth by the same group of market makers. This is why liquidity increase. If you need to buy or sell the market maker takes your order. You don't need to wait for a buyer or seller on other side. Seems like it would be a net positive for bitcoin. I wonder why there is so much resistance to the idea of bitcoin options. Misinformation maybe? I dont trade bitcoins but I looked on coinbase and the bid ask spread is $2. That is crazy wide. When AAPL was $600 the bid ask spread was still only 10c. If there were options on bitcoin that increased liquidity the bid ask spread might go down to about 30c. |
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So in reality having a solid options market would actually increase the liquidity of bitcoin but not necessarily decrease the volatility. But it's unlikely to increase the volatility, correct?
Correct Think of options as side bets. Traders use options because of leverage. So they are not buying or selling bitcoin they are trading contracts on the side betting if bitcoin goes up or down by a certain date. But options market makers are mostly writing the options. Its really risky for them to do this so in order to hedge these bets they buy or sell the underlying. Its called delta hedging. Delta us how much the option mives w the stock. The stock is one delta. The more "in the money" the higher the delta. Market makers don't care about direction. They make money on premium and the premium is priced using volatility When a product has options it gets traded a lot. But its the same shares being passed back and forth by the same group of market makers. This is why liquidity increase. If you need to buy or sell the market maker takes your order. You don't need to wait for a buyer or seller on other side. |
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Theres no hedge for bitcoins. Hedging is taking both sides of trade.
For example hold long bitcoin position. Sell bitcoin call option.
Since theres no options market for bitcoin theres no hedge
Strictly speaking, hedging does not mean "taking both sides", it means taking positions which move in opposite directions -- such as in your example of a long position coupled with a short call against the position. In addition, the list of types of positions which might move opposite to a long position in BTC is not exhausted by options; futures (e.g., ICBIT) and leveraged CFD-style products (e.g., BTC.sx) can perform a similar function. "Taking both sides" & "taking sides of both directions" essentially mean the same thing. Way to nitpick semantic to look smart. Impressive If the investor want hedging, then he wants to use options not futures. Buying bitcoin futures is not much different than buying bitcoin on margin. Doesn't make sense for investors who want to hedge. Buy bitcoin / sell bitcoin future. If this is a 1:1 delta hedge is pointless. If you think the bitcoin price will drop just sell your position b/c you achieve the same thing It makes sense for miners though. Mine bitcoin/ sell bitcoin futures @ todays spot price if you think price drops in future. Also its retarded to hold a position w one broker and hedge it on another if you are an investor. There will quite a bit of slippage trying to manage the 2 positions separately. I trade options professionally but not futures so I won't comment about futures. But I know its pretty common for futures traders use options to hedge their futures positions have you used any of the 2 services you recommend? Because BTC.sx doesn't even seem like a legit business. They force you to register account just to peak at the website & the CEO only has one interview on youtube thats extremely vague and smells of marketing BS |
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In practice, derivative increased the volatility of the underlying product because of the leverage build into them.
No it doesn't. It increases the liquidity as I just explained above. The volatility has to do with the product not with the options For example one of the biggest options market is for AAPL. AAPL moves on average like 1% a day if even. But look at something like TSLA that moves like avg 2% a day but often more than that Its not because theres more options on TSLA it's because TSLA is a newer company so there's going to be more speculative trading there. |
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I can't comment about futures but I trade options.
With stocks, the volatility is not because of options. Its because of the underlying product.
But what options affect is liquidity. Options market makers have to do something called "delta hedging". When they write options (puts or calls) they have to long or the short the underlying product so that they are hedged against directional moves. Because options are leveraged 100:1 the MMs are forced to buy/sell the equivalent amount of stock to stay delta hedged. This creates liquidity because the options MMs are forced to constantly trade the stock
For example there are 2 3D stocks SSYS & DDD. They are roughly the same in market cap. SSYS is $5.5B & DDD is $6.1B
SSYS only has monthly options but DDD has weekly options. If you trade both you will find that there is more liquidity in DDD. Its much easier to get in and out of trade and the spread is tighter. So DDD is easier for day trading scalpers to deal with
They are both similar in volatility they both had big rise (200%) and crashed (78% from top). They both have about 40-45% monthly implied volatility
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Market makers are important for liquidity.
You can have a market without market makers but it will be like ebay. Not nasdaq
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Maybe colored coin can replace an actual stock certificate but who has those anymore?
Think Mastercoin, Sidechains and Ethereum for a few examples of possible implementations A sidechain with a fixed value could easily allow for the flow of assets that have a fixed value back and forth on a blockchain The ledger would record the transactions and miners get the incentive through a merge mine. Mastercoin would raise capital on the blockchain and then have it converted to fiat as happened in the Maidsafe IPO Ethereum promises those things but is still a developers gardenshed with the infrastructure and technology still being made. Do you even trade stocks? Without a market maker who matches orders? How do you do stops, limits and OCOs? Can you see the other bids and ask coming from other exchanges? |
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What you write sounds like you don't understand. Forgive me for making that assumption.
Youtube doesnt own NBC content. Nbc's content is protected. If NBC doesn't want youtube to broadcast they can use the law. They can also have an agreement as well if thats what they choose. Without the ip laws youtube can do whatever. The laws protect content owner but doesn't prohibit private contracts
Grimm is public domain. Disney or even you can make your version of Snow White without persmission from Grimm
Doesn't matter where trademarks come from or how I got inspired. The reason it's property is because I made it valuable. I put in the investment and time. It doesn't matter where FUBU came from, the founder made the brand well known. So the trademark is his property. If someone wants to use it he can grant license.. Or not. Its his choice cuz its his property. Even one of my trademark was designed by a hire. Its still my property since I paid her to do the work
So a drivers license is also bribing the state to let you drive? Where do you get fees=bribing? Thats a bit of a stretch. Live in Vietnam or China and bribing will be more obvious to you
You think people can own physical property but not intellectual property? Contradiction here
I can't even respond to your post cause I can't tell if you're serious or trolling. You seriously believe what you write? Its so far out there
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This is retarded. Bitcoin can't replace stock MARKETS. A market is where people go to exchange.
Even bitcoin is traded on an exchange. If you can't can't trade bitcoins without an exchange then how can you trade stocks? Meetup up through craigslist list and trade stocks ala localbitcoin? LOL
Maybe colored coin can replace an actual stock certificate but who has those anymore?
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You don't have to bribe the state. Its just a filing fee. Anyone can afford to file a patent, trademark or copyright.
I know for certain in USA trademarks are on first use basis. You just have to prove you used it first. Its different for other countries though. For patents its a little more complex since there are a lot of similar inventions.
In any case 1 to 1 contract makes no sense. Intellectual property only works if it covers the entire market.
We disagree probably because you prob don't have to deal w these issues in your business. If you had a good idea that you put a lot of investment to make it fruitful, you'd want protection from copycats. Its not just the idea though - its everything but only some things can be property.
Mickey Mouse is not just a cartoon mouse. It has a long history w a lot of marketing and business behind it to make the image ubiquitous and part of our cultural language. Thats why it has value and why people license the trademark to sell products. Thats why its more valuable than Jerry Mouse or Speedy Gonzales
Obviously information age its easy to torrent movies and download MP3. Doesn't mean copyright laws are futile. If anything the business models might adapt to the market.
I still don't see why you think people who follow the rules are unethical. Its the freeloaders who are unethical
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Disney extended copyright on the Mickey Mouse movies. The Mickey Mouse trademark is indefinite.
Its not a monopoly on "idea of a cartoon mouse". I don't have time to explain the difference to you.
I own 2 trademarks and I make money licensing them so I know about trademarks.
You are the one that brought up trademarks. Personally, I don't have that big of a problem with trademarks as they serve a purpose in representing an idea that identifies a product or service which is useful for branding in business. (I am still not suggesting that non-consenting individuals should be harmed(outside of social stigmatization) if they don't agree to recognize trademarks however) How about actually disputing my comments directly instead of straw manning my position? What strawmanning? I'm disputing what you wrote about "idea of a cartoon mouse" "Mickey Mouse" is a specific trademark. Like "Iron Man", "Hello Kitty", etc.. You cannot patent, copyright, or trademark "an idea of a cartoon mouse". It should be common sense as I can think of many cartoon mice in existence not owned by Disney Im not even trying to argue w you unless you think there should be no intellectual property laws |
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Disney extended copyright on the Mickey Mouse movies. The Mickey Mouse trademark is indefinite.
Its not a monopoly on "idea of a cartoon mouse". I don't have time to explain the difference to you.
I own 2 trademarks and I make money licensing them so I know about trademarks.
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I'll give you one quick example of how copyright stifles innovation - Mash-up artist girltalk is limited to using very small samples for fear of lawsuits which in my opinion makes the tracks have a somewhat schizophrenic composition.
copyright doesnt stifle innovation.. it just means you have to not be lazy/greedy. and to atleast ask the original owner for permission to copy their property, and to agree on a percentage profit share of the new creation/copy. basically if you cant create something fresh and new, and you need to use someone elses talent, they deserve a slice of the pie too Firstly, the ends don't justify the means(Violating the NAP). Secondly, those copyright protection rackets often are hypocrites and take from others and the public domain freely while suing those that try and do the same. Thirdly, it is stiffing for a company or person to have a monopoly on an idea because they payed off the state to give them a short 20 year monopoly, no35, no I they meant 42 , no 55?, oh wait it should be 75, hmmm... lets use 120years for corporations now.... basically whenever Mickey Mouse is about to enter the public Domain they will insure lobbyists pay off the right politicians to insure their monopoly on the "idea of a cartoon mouse". You cleary don't understand how IP laws work Patents protect individual inventors so large corporations don't steal their ideas. Mickey Mouse is a trademark not "idea of a cartoon mouse". Trademarks don't enter public domain |
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IP laws are crucial. Its not just songs, books, software and movies.
Trademarks also fall under this category. Seeing all the fake pirated stuff coming out of China. People have died because unknowingly using fake car parts
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Theres no hedge for bitcoins. Hedging is taking both sides of trade.
For example hold long bitcoin position. Sell bitcoin call option.
Since theres no options market for bitcoin theres no hedge
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A robot bartender will cost lot more than a human one. Makes no economic sense
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The causes of poverty are manifold. War, disease, famine and unemployment being the big players. We can overcome this problem by doing following ideas:-
1. Employment generation
2. Drawing on various social institutions to fund poverty fighting programs e.g. charities, research institutions, U.N. , non-profit organizations, universities.
3. Transparency in government spending
4. Canceling impossible to repay world debts
5. Prioritizing programs that target fundamental human rights
6. Taxing the rich more and the poor less
7. Building self-sufficient economies
8. Education
9. Involvement of the media
10. Microfinancing
I like your rational point of view. The only question is how do we execute? Through private enterprise or govt programs or both? |
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