At a restaurant you trade money against a good meal. Wealth just got created.
You valued your money less than the meal, and the cook valued the meal less than the money. The sum of the difference of valuation is wealth.
Not all trade is equal. Most of the time there is a power relationship where the strong exploits the weak. An example is sweatshops. People who need jobs are willing to allow themselves to be exploited because they need money. This was common in 19th/ early 20th century before existence of labor unions how is a sweatshop exploiting anyone if they agree to work there out of their own free will, without the sweatshop they would be worse off. Do you believe its ethical to exploit desperate people? Free will is just a red herring They are not as desperate as you think. These people can try to get better work or collectively bargen for better wages or work environment. My question was simple...is it ethical to exploit desperate people. Even if these people voluntrarly amd free willungly accets the sweathop jobs. Yes or no? |
|
|
|
When you pick a bottom, all you come away with is a stinky finger. I read this topic in length and all I see are more of the same mendacious ramblings by Mr. Pietila. We both know that bitcoin reached its apex last year and is now in the burn off phase. Why don't you break the act and stop misleading these impressionable people?
You already have a castle and a Rolls Royce. These people need their money to pay their mortgages and put food on their supper tables!
He needs greater fools to unload the rest of his stash |
|
|
|
|
Yes it has happened in other markets. Most well known recent case was Bear Stearns & Lehman Bros. Bitcoin is not immune ti market economics
|
|
|
|
At a restaurant you trade money against a good meal. Wealth just got created.
You valued your money less than the meal, and the cook valued the meal less than the money. The sum of the difference of valuation is wealth.
Not all trade is equal. Most of the time there is a power relationship where the strong exploits the weak. An example is sweatshops. People who need jobs are willing to allow themselves to be exploited because they need money. This was common in 19th/ early 20th century before existence of labor unions how is a sweatshop exploiting anyone if they agree to work there out of their own free will, without the sweatshop they would be worse off. Do you believe its ethical to exploit desperate people? Free will is just a red herring |
|
|
|
|
Try it and report back. Personally i found bitcoin a PITA to use
|
|
|
|
|
WRT Obama
Its an interesting question that can't be answered. Abenomics did a bigger QE combined with big stimulus spending and that didn't seem to work either.
Some interesting proposals I've heard were things like job guarantee (employer of last resort) . Its like a type of stimulus spending. Google Pavlina Tcherneva.
|
|
|
|
At a restaurant you trade money against a good meal. Wealth just got created.
You valued your money less than the meal, and the cook valued the meal less than the money. The sum of the difference of valuation is wealth.
Not all trade is equal. Most of the time there is a power relationship where the strong exploits the weak. An example is sweatshops. People who need jobs are willing to allow themselves to be exploited because they need money. This was common in 19th/ early 20th century before existence of labor unions |
|
|
|
|
LOL. Kudos for trying but everyman for himself
|
|
|
|
Warlords? What is your point again? If you don't pay your taxes then armed men with guns will take you to prison.
Its in context to Nicholas. He's trying to convince me that we need an totally unregulated market to be a truly free market. I think regulations define a free market. I brought up Somalia as an example, hehe  |
|
|
|
|
They don't hate bitcoin. They like to make fun of bit coiners for saying dumb things.
Gotta say its pretty entertaining
|
|
|
|
Where do you draw the line? I let compassion guide my ethics, rather than selfishness and isolation. You should too. A libertarian telling other people what they should do. |
|
|
|
In a free market there is no unemployment.
This is an incredibly naive statement. Somalia comes to mind I really doubt that Somalia is a free market. Besides a better example would be a non-muslim country with little goverment interference and/or no minimum wage. Somalia has an ineffective Central Govt. Its ran by warlords. Very little in terms of regulations. Just "law of the jungle" aka his idea of free market. BTW, My idea of free market is a regulated one, like US, EU, JP |
|
|
|
In a free market there is no unemployment.
This is an incredibly naive statement. Somalia comes to mind |
|
|
|
In the socialist mindset, they would say Mc Donald exploits low skilled people, and union would coerce Mc Donald to raise wages.
Diminishing the number of low skill people that would be employed, and the price of hamburger would raise, and consequently their demand drops. (Luckily we are not at this point yet)
Then they would pass a bill so they can give subsidy to Mc Donald for their loss... But that would be advertised the "Food for everyone campaign".
Strings are in place, making everybody, customers ,employees, employers dependent of government for no added value.
Do you want to compete now ? yes just beg for the mandatory subsidy of gov to be economically profitable because of these artificially raised wages.
Are you sure about this? Is there a Socialist country that does this, or are you making things up to serve your political agenda? I briefly worked in a hardware store. I was on the public teat, as described in the post above. The state sent us there to work as free labor (from the perspective of the store). There was a huge turnover but no shortage of people to send so they just kept replacing us every few months and in doing so saved maybe 4-6 job positions they would otherwise have had to pay for. It's no different from if the state had given them a bag of money to hire those 4-6 people for, this just keeps more people busy and makes the system more convoluted so people who are not part of it can't see through it. But would you have preferred to be unemployed? I was. "I was on the public teat at the hardware store" means nothing when looking for actual work. It's just a way to keep people busy - at the taxpayers expense. I mean would you rather not be on the public teat and broke? |
|
|
|
In the socialist mindset, they would say Mc Donald exploits low skilled people, and union would coerce Mc Donald to raise wages.
Diminishing the number of low skill people that would be employed, and the price of hamburger would raise, and consequently their demand drops. (Luckily we are not at this point yet)
Then they would pass a bill so they can give subsidy to Mc Donald for their loss... But that would be advertised the "Food for everyone campaign".
Strings are in place, making everybody, customers ,employees, employers dependent of government for no added value.
Do you want to compete now ? yes just beg for the mandatory subsidy of gov to be economically profitable because of these artificially raised wages.
Are you sure about this? Is there a Socialist country that does this, or are you making things up to serve your political agenda? I briefly worked in a hardware store. I was on the public teat, as described in the post above. The state sent us there to work as free labor (from the perspective of the store). There was a huge turnover but no shortage of people to send so they just kept replacing us every few months and in doing so saved maybe 4-6 job positions they would otherwise have had to pay for. It's no different from if the state had given them a bag of money to hire those 4-6 people for, this just keeps more people busy and makes the system more convoluted so people who are not part of it can't see through it. But would you have preferred to be unemployed? |
|
|
|
In the socialist mindset, they would say Mc Donald exploits low skilled people, and union would coerce Mc Donald to raise wages.
Diminishing the number of low skill people that would be employed, and the price of hamburger would raise, and consequently their demand drops. (Luckily we are not at this point yet)
Then they would pass a bill so they can give subsidy to Mc Donald for their loss... But that would be advertised the "Food for everyone campaign".
Strings are in place, making everybody, customers ,employees, employers dependent of government for no added value.
Do you want to compete now ? yes just beg for the mandatory subsidy of gov to be economically profitable because of these artificially raised wages.
Are you sure about this? Is there a Socialist country that does this, or are you making things up to serve your political agenda? |
|
|
|
The future currency will probably be replaced by crytocurrencies.
Only difference will be who is backing them, either government or free market.
I agree. I bet on govt because legal tender laws I would bet on one or two free market backed altcoins surviving, along with the government currencies. Government cryptos or fiat? I can see fiat surviving, maybe, for a while, but it's hard to see a government crypto surviving. A govt crypto doesn't have to be decentralized like bitcoin. It can use block chain technology to upgrade their ACH clearing system. Fiat would still exist. For example bit dollar is pegged to USD. People can have wallets and its tied to their SS# or some other govt ID. On the front end people use it like Paypal or Google Wallet. On the back end Central Bank use block chain to track money flow. |
|
|
|
|
I don't think regulations has to be so black & white. Legal framework always adapt with the times. However, I think its extreme to argue no regulations at all. Thats de-evolution
Also, I don't trust Cato Institute. Well known Libertarian think tank connected to Koch Brothers.
How can you recognize personal property but not intellectual property? Isn't that contradictory?
|
|
|
|
The future currency will probably be replaced by crytocurrencies.
Only difference will be who is backing them, either government or free market.
I agree. I bet on govt because legal tender laws |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
