omg u learned that too?? ahh i used to love math when the alligators mouth came into play lol. but im not sure where the actual "math" comes into play. really we r just comparing 2 numbers....r u sayin u dont consider setting the freq to 400M an underclock?? are ur saying only 320M and below is an underclock??

that must be math of the highest order considering i dont see any. those must be some smarttttt 4th graders if they can pic it out of what u have been posting . today was a good day buddy. it tooks weeks but i got a resolution. im happy with that.

oh and the new fw allows for underclocking as well....as low as 400M. the fw also detects the clock of each chip showing thats what it is running at. its unprofessional to resort to insulting someones typin style because u ran out of things to use in ur circle runnin. im sorry...i truely m....im like a dog with a bone and dont let things go....everrrrrrr and because of that i provided direct quotes of ur wrong info and proved that it is in fact wrong. bitmain helped with that one actually. either way lets agree to disagree ehh?? i dont need you to approve of you losing....so to let u save face even after posting all the proof u asked for (when u posted 0 i might add) lets just walk away and call it even hmmm?? i think thats the nice thing to offer someone in ur position dont u??

oh i decided to look at my history and find a quote where you say there are actual hardware limitations that make the new miners run at the speeds they do and without fan control. it also happens to include the info about my having limited knowledge of how fw words....u also added how hw works too so i forgot to include that but heres that quote u asked for lol. there r others as well but i only need 1 piece of proof not 50. ne thing else i can do for u big guy??

and pics of the miner will be coming soon as well. like i said in my previous post....i will post them only after the miner runs for a little bit and after i go get some lunch on my lunch break. u should chillax buddy. today is a good day....no reason to be so uptight.

idk how a direct comment directed towards me in a very blunt/rude tone can be taken out of context lol. what other way can "it cant be done" and "you have a limited understanding of how fw works" be taken any other way? ehh no worries though. ur known for ur back peddlin so its all good buddy.


idk if thats sarcasm or not but im going to assume its genuine interest in this new info/new firmware. basically the new fw lets you run the miner cooler which will almost certainly extend its life expectancy. it also lets all the boards run at the same freq so no single board is being pushed to the moon and back freq wise while the other 2 r limpin up a small hill in a park lol.

also the miner im testing it on is one of the 11.85th/s version miners. that was one of the hottest running machines and the fan noise up and down up and down was annoying so it was a perfect test unit for the new fw.

u said fan control and freq control cant be done and u also mentioned my "limited understanding of how fw works" lol. thats if the post hasnt been removed already since the purge but i remember either way. and dont put words in my mouth kid...u knew what i was talkin about and it deff wasnt about an old firmware on the new miners. nice try though .

ne who so after the firmware update and letting it run so far for about a half an hour the temps dropped nearly 30 degrees at the chip lol. i set the fan speed to 80% and the freq was manually set to 550M to match the 2 lower freq boards that showed about 5-550 freq using the stock firmware available on bitmains site. now all of the boards are running at 550M and temps r super low....some of the lowest i have seen with an s9. also my hashrate didnt go down either and my hw error are at a whole whopping 1 in the last 30 minutes. i took screen shots of the miner running for 17 days i think it was and there were somewhere around 23k hw errors in that 17 day timeframe so 1 hw error in a half an hour isnt bad at all. the hw errors reported came from the 2 boards that the auto freq firmware ran really slow and the other board was jacked way up. ne way after it runs for a bit and i get back from lunch (at work) i will get to uploading pics so my "proof" can be provided before anyone says im lying lol.

iiiidddddkkkkkkkk u said it couldnt be done and it was clearly doneeeeeeeeee ))))). the impossible has become possible buddy. but i wont get into it with u today because some kid reported our posts before causing them to be removed which i didnt agree with and im sure neither did u. sad right??

sooooo good news (at least i think it is)....i got the firmware with fan control . i downloaded the variations a few mins ago and will check my s9's sometime today to get the one with the most problematic temps to see how much of a difference the fan control makes.

i wonder if i will get that "sorry i was wrong" i was hoping to get?? pride is a great thing...but too much can ruin a man.

i have 4-5 antminer s5 kits minus the boards from when i put them in a water cooling setup if people r interested in controllers heatsinks and all that other stuff. shoot me a pm and we can work somethin out.

thats a basic way of using it but it isnt the correct amount. my reply was to the other dude because he claims to only pay $.10 per kwh and i would like to know more on that.

the reason the number isnt correct is because your bill includes many local and federally added fees and taxes for just about every charge lol. hell if you look at the rate info using the link i posted you will see they charge an extra 2.xxxx% on the line transmission fee which is only $.007xxx per khw but that quickly adds up at the end of the month. its pretty normal to see trans/distrib fees adding up to the same amount as the actual generation fees effectively doubling them almost. and when you look at the costs on websites they only list the generation fees usually and not the other stuff which throws people off big time. the bills r also way more complicated than they need to be. i dont see any justifiable reason for not charging a flat rate per kwh of usage....instead they make it harder to understand allowing things to fly under the radar much easier.

wrong thread but the answer is the antminer l3+

whe do u live that gets u power prices that low?? looking at the list of price per kwh in the us shows prices just under $.10 per kwh which fits the price listed in your post with one key piece of info left out and that is the cost of distribution. the cost of pepco in maryland is $.08xx per kwh but the line distribution fee jacks the cost per kwh to the better part of double the electricity cost. but if you tell me your location or the company u use i can verify ur numbers for u. i pay $0 for power but i watch my home usage like a hawk.

i should also add my "proof" before you go spewin on about it. here is a link to the pepco doc on pepcos website showing the generation trans and distrib of power costs per kwh:

http://www.pepco.com/uploadedFiles/wwwpepcocom/Content/Page_Content/Rate_Schedules/R_Pepco%20Rate%20Schedule.pdf

1. proof has been given by multiple people in this thread so read up buddy.

2. they do not care about roi...they got paid upfront multiple times more than the cost of the machine so they only care about getting past the 180 day threshold with the buyer and not about if the miner runs or not. their warranty also says if anything burns up due to component failure (which is common for almost all component failures especially ones with high amounts of power running through them lol) the warranty is voided out so again they dont care how long they last past a set amount of time they have determined in house. they wouldnt publicly post that info either because it can cost them business. its sort of like the well believed "planned obsolesce" in the tech/appliance/consumer products in general industry. if companies made them to last customers wouldnt consider buying replacements as fast and in bitmains case if 1 s9 dies thats 1 less s9 competition against them. they get their money and reduced competition at the mining lvl. that is what is known as a win win my friend. are u familiar with that term??

3. im not sure why your bolding the word "ARE" like im disagreeing with your classification lol but whatevs buddy. ne way lowering the freq of the chip makes the chip use less power. the voltage can go up all it wants the fact is the current draw goes down which when you do the math equals less wattage being used which again proves it uses less power. im not sure what argument your trying to win but it seems like your confirming what i said in over what....20+ posts now?? ty i guess lol.

4. i guess u have to have run a gpu mining farm (only 145 cards but for me that seemed like alot. others dont have to agree) to be able to comment on it so since u havent i will share some info on how i did things. my gpus wouldnt run at higher than 80% capacity. i treated them like i would treat a power supply and never maxed it out past 80% except for when im finding the sweet spot for that config. each card has slight differences so the sweet spot may or may not be the same as every other card your running of the same model/specs. besides you cant know what 80% capacity of that particular card is until u know what the max it can handle is...its common sense.  maybe i was too anal and maybe not but i know my gpus didnt die. they also didnt need to be repasted like other gpus i tried buying that were run at 100%. they were unloading them in a bulk sale but i wanted to check the paste beforehand to see how they were treated and good thing i did....it had become completely useless. meanwhile mine until the day i sold them all (xfx 7950 DD's) had 0 of the same issues the other cards i was looking at buying in bulk had. i also tried buying the cards from other miners locally as well and they had the same problems so it wasnt a 1 time fluke associated with 1 deal so sorry buddy but if u just looked the info up u would know all of this. i mean ur super techy right?? u werent around during the crazy days of nvidia 8800 series video cards in both laptops and desktops and how they would overheat?? i guess thats one notch in the child column lol.



lol couldnt have said it better myself. maybe he thinks spewing ignorance as a defense long enough will 1 make him believable or 2 make mr wu wanna give him a job/free miners?? either is possible i think but neither will happen lol.

i have proof that they run the miners hotter. not only was it posted in this thread but i also have pre auto tunes batched and post auto tunes batches and the temps are very very different. the post auto tuned batches clearly slow the fan speed down to make them run at a desired floor temp programmed into the firmware. the pre auto tuned miners run at a constant speed with no such floor in the temp config. i know post auto tuned miners can have more chips as well which generate more heat but if that was the cause of the almost 20 degree difference the fans on the auto tuned miners wouldnt need to have a floor set because they would run at a steady speed so those extra chips arent the cause of the spike. if i run the fans at the same speed on both miners the temps are about the same and hover around 80-90 degrees at the chip. some are lower than 80 but it really has alot to do with heatsink placement and if they are perfectly straight. so i used miners with the same speeds so the numbers would be similar to see if they mirror one another with ever so slight differences which again can be blamed on the placememnt of the heatsinks.

i didnt claim a single thing related to efficiency as far as i know. its been a while but lowering the clock speed on miners as far back as the s3 didnt increase efficiency one bit if im remembering correctly so i wouldnt claim that. maybe thats where your confused? you can make them more efficient but that takes mods using either a pencil or swapping out components so that is beyond what the normal hobby miner is willing or even capable of doing.

now to correct you fully...i (and multiple others) said a low power mode would be beneficial for people running their miners in a warmer environment for example in the summer time and their ac unit cant efficiently cool the house and all the extra heat being pumped into it. without a low power mode what options do they have?? well only 1 to be exact....turn the entire miner off which generates $0 for the entire time it sits collecting dust. every ac unit has a cooling capacity (and heres where your choice use of the acronym btu comes into play) and that capacity cannot be increased ever...sure there are ways for example swapping out the unit with a larger compressor but that isnt feasible for a hobby miner so for the sake of this convo we are considering that impossible. anyway if the ac unit can handle a portion of extra heat then a low power mode will effectively allow him to run the miner during these conditions vs not running it at all and based on your roi argument (not much of an argument since bitmain doesnt care if we roi or not) that would be the end of the god damn world as we know it lol. or are you saying running some isnt better than running none at all??

a gpu fan isnt make to move large amounts of air over the heatsink. they can move alot for their size but there are limitations. gpus arent supposed to run at 100% all the time...they can handle short bursts of 100% power being pushed through it but not constant. even in ice cold temps 100% usage isnt good period. but the main convo isnt about gpus its about s9's. gpus are also not locked by their firmware to run the miners at a steady 100+ degrees c now are they? but s9's are firmware locked to do just that. you admit higher temps arent ok for video cards but you dont agree that the temps these machines run at isnt safe too?? how can it be safe for one and not safe for another?? they arent using components designed for ballz hot temps but even if they were what is the reason for rampin fans up and down from 30% to max sped every couple of seconds?? what benefit would have have vs running them at a steady constant speed which will dramatically lower temps on those miners. running them cooler doesnt lower the hashrate....i tried it and my ato tuned miners run at the same hashrate when the fan is constant and when the fan ramps up all over the same place so what justification is there for adding stress to the components??

i claim that the roi isnt an argument. bitmain didnt remove features from the config page to ensure we saw a return on our invesment. do u believe bitmain has our best interests in mind? why would they care what i make from their miner? i can go buy a brand new s9 right now and put it on a shelf in my basement...do u think bitmain will email me asking why i havent turned it on yet to start mining coins?? nopeeeeeee....they got their money.....so running it at a lower speed and making less isnt a factor in their decission making. they wanted to run the boards hotter but for what reason??

you say there isnt anything to reply to but i have asked maybe 15 questions none of which get answered. others asked questions that werent answered either lol. uk what ur doin. ur in a corner....u can either keep tryin to talk around in circles or u can stop replyin....one or the other....doesnt bother me either way.

Please call don't make the common assumption of your countrymen and assume the entire internet is populated by and is the domain of the misspelling American.

Now I'm afraid as you persist in quoting, while feeding, the troll I shall have to put you in on ignore as well.

Cheers!
[/quote]

lol idc if u ignore me kiddo. im not sure why you would announce that then block me....did you want to get the last word or something? i would have let you have it if it made you feel better about yourself. honestly idk u and have no problem with u and didnt even say ne thing to u until u posted insults bashing me for no reason. now you just look like a rude person that is willing to post insults but the moment he gets one fired back at him (a perfectly valid one at that lol) you get butthurt and go into block mode. dont be so sensitive next time princess. if you hadnt replied none of this would have happened. it is nice that u double checked your spellin this time though before posting insults. we wouldnt want 2 fumbles in a row now would we?

oops you are correct this time...you did say ambient temps of the room so that was my mistake. everything else is still 100% valid and you havent responded to ne of it. care to comment? one incorrect tiny mistake on my part doesnt make every other statement invalid. or r u not addressing it because you ran out of room in those circles your running in?? i have learned over the years that no matter what the person talking in circles always gets backed into a corner because as the convo goes on their arguments break down 1 at a time. that is why i continue to reply to ur ignorance. u started with 100 excuses and now u have none....imagine that lol. troll on indeed mr troll.


since mr geenie quoted only part of what you said (as if that makes everything hes spewin valid) i should add that to make claims that their mines run smoothly without issues isnt smart. we have no idea how many boards die due to overheating at their farms. we do not know if bitmain uses ambient temps from outside or if they use outside temps in the winter (cold air is free in the winter lol) and ac cooling in the summer. what we have seen from other chinese mine operators r piles of dead miners and power supplies from running them hard and hot and instead of fixing them they just replace them with new units because its cheaper on their part. you cant compare the costs of replacing a miner on our end with the cost on their end because the amount we pay is significantly higher than the money they pay for them. is we pay $100 they may only pay $20 or possibly even less. since we dont have the info on suppliers and order quantities we will never know the assembled cost before the markup for 1 single s9 but im 100% positive its much less than what we pay otherwise whats the point of selling them to us in the first place?

also no matter what the ambient temps are the fan compensates for that temp but their is a ceiling. the firmware keeps running the boards hot on purpose so the colder the temps the slower the fan spins to keep the boards running much hotter than normal and the same goes for higher ambient temps but in reverse...the fan spins faster.

that is incorrect. bitmains firmware tries to run the boards at 95-100 degrees c hence the constant ramping up in fan speed. again if you paid attention you would know this. this just adds to me thinking you dont have any of their hardware running yourself. ur just saying whatever on the interwebz just to be a troll lol.

lol if u think im searchin through 200 pages of replies you have clearly lost your damn mind. the second part is dont twist my words....i didnt say bitmain was wrong to control fan speeds....what i said was running the miners at higher temps does not benefit the board chips or other components on the board at all. its a known fact...heat kills electronics so to assume otherwise is silly. i think your problem is you dont like to directly quote people. you rather read what they say and spew out things that are completely different than what was said in the first place lol. im still waiting for an explaination about how running the miners harder and hotter is the best option for them....not to mention a comment to every other part i commented on but when you have no response you tend to switch to a new topic which just so happens to come right after you twist the words of previous posts around lol. if your still unable to respond to things i can and will break down my replies to 1 topic at a time so your brain doesnt get overloaded. either way is fine with me buddy.

i should also ask what hardware/software experience do u have?? u havent answered anything so far....you just reply with more and more questions even after people (including me) took the time to reply answering you so do u feel like your somehow better than everyone else? that you dont have to answer anything but yet you demand answers to your questions? these simple facts are what tells me and everyone else that your a troll and that your posts dont benefit the community one bit. honestly you should be banned from this thread all together for your pure ignorance but i dont make that choice.

sorry for the delay in replying....i dont feel the need to take time out of my weekends to reply to trolls so i like to wait until im back in the office and have a few free minutes to respond to your nonsense.

the email says his name is "kai". that is part of the actual email address. the name on the email is in Chinese and like i have said before i only speak english so i cant read or even come close to understanding what the characters spell out so i wont bother trying to figure that out. The guy told me we are welcome to make the firmware ourselves using the source code posted. he didnt say it will void anything but i dont see it killing your warranty IF you use it the correct way. this isnt there to lower the fan speed. i even specifically told him i have 0 interest in lowering the speed of the fans. i only want to set them at a constant FASTER speed so the miner runs cooler and the fans dont whirl up and down up and down every few seconds.

I like how you keep trying to pick apart what i have posted. you shouldnt read between the lines so much though because im pretty open honest and blunt about everything i say. My question to you is how does running the miners at a lower temp somehow cause the miner to fail?? i know sub freezing temps can be bad for electronics not make to operate at those temps but we arent talking about icy conditions here....we are talking about typical ac unit temps of about 60-70 degrees F. do you think ramping the temps to 100 degrees c and holding them there is better for the board/components/chips?? its this simple fact alone that tells me you arent familiar with hardware like your claiming you are. i work on electronics daily day in and day out and in all the years i have run my business i havent ever seen anyone that thinks running machines at higher temps and harder is better for said machine. not one single time. even people here in this very same forum in this very same thread posted their concerns for the temps of these miners and that is coming from actual hardware developers....people that have made miners themselves and know more about the components being used then you or i do and yet you still fight it as if they are complete morons and know nothing about what they have spent probably hundreds of hours if not more tinkering with. your ego is far too large for one man.

of course bitmain warranty fixes boards for a premium. hell i highly doubt they "fix" boards at all. other posts i have seen showed entirely new boards being sent back to customers as replacements not the board they originally sent in but i havent dealt with them so i cant speak from experience there. what i can say for sure is no business does this sort of thing for free....they have to make money to pay the bills so of course they repair stuff at a premium so quoting that like you found the hold grail of evidence is completely moronic and its hard to even come up with words to describe how stupid that makes you look in general. but yet again your a sensitive guy that cant accept or admit when he has been beaten so by all means keep graspin at those staws my friend.

what i said was clear and direct...so clear in fact u were able to form replies based on it so it must be pretty pretty good lol. so stop being a dramatic child that didnt get his way and move on to another topic please.

1. there u go again. an underclock option wouldnt be worth it if it was only able to chop off a small amount of speed from the freq. you said manual control of the firmware isnt able to be done and bitmain says it can be done and provided a solution for those that want to control the speed of auto tuned miners. also i believe my reply said to check the speed of the slowest board so you dont push that one harder by setting the freq manually right?? if u bothered reading my response before letting your fingers go on a rampage u would have seen that info. others saw it....why not u?? interesting.

but like we said before having the ability to run them at a lower freq at any given time is a feature that is available to everyone now even though you stated its not possible and that bitmain wont waste time giving it to us. u cant deny that fact buddy....sorry.

2. ok so do u believe it now than?? bitmain already gave us freq control....fan control is there as well you just have to compile the firmware yourself after altering the code to suite your needs. this was all said by bitmains engineer not by me. even thought its posted there in your face your still unable to accept the fact that your wrong. this is why im still undecided on u bein an old fart or some child with too much time on his hands. but at the end of the day i know a troll is there just to argue with people online. it doesnt matter if ur right or wrong u just like the argument so u can pretend like you dont see it if that makes u feel better. ik uk your wrong and thats good enough for me. it probably eats u up inside that uk u lost. does it physically hurt or is it an emotional kinda pain??

oh also running the machines hotter doesnt sound like much of a safety net. but u already knew that too lol. good talk buddy.