Bitcoin Forum
April 28, 2024, 06:14:49 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 ... 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 [79]
1561  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Funds “frozen” in TyGrr-Bot’s MtGox account. on: May 01, 2012, 11:25:40 PM


I don't know how this relates to GLBSE, as I don't follow the GLBSE, but now I'm curious and am going to have to check it out!

Its not as complicated as you are probably thinking.

GLBSE a website where you create a bitcoin denominated securities without providing any information as to who you are.

Additionally, It's not a decentralized service and it is ran by a guy that lives in the UK, and the servers are in the United States.

I recently tried to explain to him that this is a terrible idea.

The person that started this thread is the "founder" of one of these GLBSE companies. Their claim was that they were making arbitrage trades between BTC and unspecified currency. It appears this person is now trying to make like Sam Israel III with the principal.

It wouldn't be funny, but this is probably over a very tiny amount of money.
1562  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Funds “frozen” in TyGrr-Bot’s MtGox account. on: May 01, 2012, 10:34:16 PM
Just to recap: "Goat" claims that his high dividend is from arbitrage income, made by constantly shifting bitcoins into and out of various currencies.

Now he claims that he attempted to sell some "significant" number of bitcoins and transfer the proceeds to a bank in Thailand. This transaction was denied by Mt. Gox, the largest bitcoin exchange.

Does this suggest to you "Goat" had ever made any transactions from Bitcoin to any currency, the claimed arbitrage, prior to this moment?

Does this suggest to you that he was attempting to withdraw the entire amount raised by selling counterfeit securities?

Is the transfer of proceeds from the sale of counterfeit securities between international banks considered money laundering?
Seeking investors and suggesting a possible return on investment is one thing, but selling actual shares/securities is something far more regulated and scrutinized. I don't have a dog in this fight either way, but I work in finance and know that selling shares is serious business.

I recently tried to explain to Mr. James of GLBSE the difference between issuing and providing custodianship for shares, and the services a stock exchange provides. Perhaps you can do a better job.
1563  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Funds “frozen” in TyGrr-Bot’s MtGox account. on: May 01, 2012, 10:13:21 PM
Just to recap: "Goat" claims that his high dividend is from arbitrage income, made by constantly shifting bitcoins into and out of various currencies.

Now he claims that he attempted to sell some "significant" number of bitcoins and transfer the proceeds to a bank in Thailand. This transaction was denied by Mt. Gox, the largest bitcoin exchange.

Does this suggest to you "Goat" had ever made any transactions from Bitcoin to any currency, the claimed arbitrage, prior to this moment?

Does this suggest to you that he was attempting to withdraw the entire amount raised by selling counterfeit securities?

Is the transfer of proceeds from the sale of counterfeit securities between international banks considered money laundering?
1564  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Funds “frozen” in TyGrr-Bot’s MtGox account. on: May 01, 2012, 10:00:41 PM
Mr. James, do you now understand why it is a bad idea for your service to issue counterfeit securities?
1565  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: GLBSE darknet mirror. on: April 19, 2012, 12:22:42 AM
Speed is not a requirement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%2B3

A distributed system would be vastly superior to the "real" stock market.

If thats the case then why are there no distributed stock markets and why do all existing stock markets aim to be fast?

Speed is a requirement when you want to buy or sell something before someone else.

Stock traders aim to be fast. Stock Brokers aim to be fast. Stock Exchanges aim to be fast.

You need to be more precise in your thinking about what services a stock exchange offers versus the clearinghouse.
1566  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: GLBSE darknet mirror. on: April 18, 2012, 11:50:14 PM
Wouldn't it be "smarter" to have a bitcoin style sharechain, only the transactions are share movements + bits etc.?

It might even be doable via Bitcoin itself, using the output of "blessed" transactions as shares, recognized by a special client.

Then we're getting into distributed blockchain based stockmarkets, and I believe that there is already a thread on this, the major problem being speed, markets need to be able to process transactions quickly which requires centralisation (or very VERY fast replication).

Speed is not a requirement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%2B3

A distributed system would be vastly superior to the "real" stock market.
1567  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: GLBSE IPO Handling and Interaccount Transfers Discussion Thread. on: April 18, 2012, 10:28:58 PM
did any of you had a look at:
http://www.slcapex.com/

and asked the question if the second life capital exchange is regulated?

my opinion is similar to trading imaginary money for virtual stock and if you want to regulate that, please remember to take your meds.

Theres quite a large section of this site devoted to this topic.

Quote
Article I: Capital Exchange Disclosure Statement

Capital Exchange (CapEx) is a fictional stock market simulation game operating for entertainment and educational purposes only, and currently exists solely in support of Second Life®, a feature-rich online 3-D virtual world including an "economy" and a "currency" ($Linden) operated and supported by Linden Research, Inc. Capital Exchange (http://www.SLCapEx.com) is not affiliated with Linden Research, Inc. For more information regarding Second Life® please visit (http://www.secondlife.com).

To be very clear, Capital Exchange is not a real-world stock exchange and does not offer opportunity for direct real-world investment or profit. Shares purchased on this stock exchange simulation game do not entitle you to any legal real-world rights to a listed virtual company. Please play accordingly!

CapEx operates within the Second Life® environment, and beyond its boundaries via our website which acts as a clearinghouse for the trading of CapEx-listed "Stocks" and "$Lindens". The underlying companies are fictitious and none of the companies offer "registered" investment quality securities for sale in any form whatsoever via our website. Lindens used to purchase virtual stock here are in essence being transferred to the ownership of the person you are buying the virtual shares from, and not Capital Exchange. All stock and shares purchased are for purely entertainment only, and not considered part/whole ownership in any legal entity or real life company.

The terms "profit" and "earnings" as used within the context of the CapEx.com website, and any claim of monetary value therein, relates solely and specifically to the valuation of $Lindens as specified in the Linden Lab Terms of Service, Section 1.4 (http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php).

The $Linden "currency" is a limited license right available for purchase or free distribution at Linden Lab's sole discretion, and is not redeemable for monetary value from Linden Labor from CapEx.com.

CapEx offers no direct opportunity for conversion of ($Lindens) to legal tender currencies including $US Dollars. Linden Lab does offer an Exchange, called LindeX™, for the trading of $Lindens. Please refer to the Linden Lab Terms of Service, Section 1.5 for information regarding LindeX™ transactions.

Notwithstanding the warnings herein, CapEx as designed and offered is a serious stock simulation game. The participants here “play for keeps” and their time and $Linden-based holdings represent a considerable investment in our community.

Your participation here is not without risk. You could lose some or all of your $Lindens invested here. Only invest here what you can afford to lose.

There are additional policies, rules and Terms of Service for participation as published and amended from time-to-time. Please review and fully understand them before playing.

Finally, the operators of CapEx.com make no representation of any kind regarding the accuracy, fitness for purpose, or use of the software residing at (http://www.SLCapEx.com). Your use of the software in any manner whatsoever shall constitute an understanding and acceptance of this Disclosure Statement in its entirety. The individuals who operate the software residing at (http://www.SLCapEx.com) offer no warranty and offer no remedies whatsoever for its use or consequence. You play this stock simulation game at your own risk.

http://www.slcapex.com/content/disclosure

This text is unfortunately legally meaningless, and contains far too many undefined terms to be taken seriously by anyone working in the legal profession.

Basically, this document attempts to say that these securities are a worthless component of a video game and only intended for entertainment.

It is, however, an acknowledgement that what they are doing is not legal, and more importantly an indication that the exchange and the value of the securities could disappear to the wind at any moment.

The outlook for a bitcoin based stock exchange is even darker. Bitcoin in no way resembles a video game, and its anonymous nature makes it impossible to guarantee to the courts that Nefario is not the sole issuer of these counterfeit securities.

For these reasons, and more, I recommend the immediate closure of GLBSE and any other issuers of counterfeit securities.
1568  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: GLBSE IPO Handling and Interaccount Transfers Discussion Thread. on: April 17, 2012, 10:19:19 PM
Although we don't have a hot swap system ready and waiting GLBSE is prepared for the unlikely event of the  server being shut down, we would be offline for a maximum of 3 days.

I can assure you that the FSA sees bitcoin as monopoly money and simply doesn't care.

Just because I happen to live in the UK doesn't mean that this is where GLBSE is operating from. The fact is it would be very difficult for any country to shut down GLBSE (being as we have no bank accounts to be frozen or physical assets to seize).

So on receipt of information that what you are doing is not legal, your announcement is that upon presentation of an interim injunction by FSA your intent is to flee to another jurisdiction and continue to operate?

That must make the holders of "unlimited duration bonds," and other assets for which GLBSE is the nominal custodian, feel very secure.
1569  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: GLBSE IPO Handling and Interaccount Transfers Discussion Thread. on: April 17, 2012, 05:31:57 AM
1st argument is in box 1 - not carrying out a business.  BTC is not recognised as currency or security, so trading with them exempts GLBSE.

I've dealt with tax officials on the definition of "carry on a business" with respect to value added taxes, and the intention is basically to create taxable income.  GLBSE is not aiming to create taxable income in the UK (or probably anywhere else).

(the S could be for "stuff")


What this service does is not bitcoin, or any way related to bitcoin, other than that bitcoin is the chosen currency.

If instead you chose to accept kilograms of soil to act as a clearinghouse for unregistered securities, do you think it would really matter to FSA?

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/smallfirms/your_firm_type/financial/pdf/ucis_factsheet.pdf
1570  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: GLBSE IPO Handling and Interaccount Transfers Discussion Thread. on: April 17, 2012, 05:06:15 AM

GLBSE in not a U.S. exchange or company.
The owners and managers of GLBSE are not American citizens nor do they live in the US.


I agree that GLBSE is not a stock exchange, it's an asset exchange (where the assets may be shares, bonds, futures or some other form of security), but GLBSE users like to call it that so that's what we do.

I wonder, should we change the name to Global Bitcoin Securities Exchange?

I assure you that you will find the same laws WRT unregistered securities in the United Kingdom. London regulations are actually much more strict than those of Washington DC. Have you registered with the FSA?

1571  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: GLBSE IPO Handling and Interaccount Transfers Discussion Thread. on: April 17, 2012, 01:19:33 AM
I agree with what you have done.

Its a good idea to suspend the transfer of unregistered (restricted) securities to unaccredited investors, considering its against the Securities Exchange Act of 1933.

Also note that the service you are providing is not a stock exchange. Your service is a weird hybrid put together by someone with very little knowledge of how capital markets actually work.

A stock exchange only facilitates the matching of buyers and sellers. These parties are brokers, not the beneficial owner of the security.

The buyers and sellers arrange the transfer outside of the exchange, typically through a clearinghouse. The records of ownership are taken down by the issuer or a transfer agent. Each of these parties are seperate and distinct for some very good reasons.
1572  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: So I'm up to 17.8 GH/S and it's costing me $250 a month for electricity. on: November 12, 2011, 05:40:19 AM
Do you miners ever get visits from the police? I would be worried the utility would submit you to the suspected drug grower list.
1573  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Activate my $50 gift card by phone or skype, donate $40, and earn $10 (+ karma!) on: November 12, 2011, 03:59:10 AM
All this over 50$?  Roll Eyes
1574  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Why are people losing faith? on: November 11, 2011, 02:45:33 AM
Bitcoin will continue to decrease in value to real world money until people actually start using it for something.
Pages: « 1 ... 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 [79]
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!