environmental impact??

compared to the resources needed to print FIAT then the fuel costs to transport it from the mint to the banks. further transports to the ATMS. thats alot of natural resources

then as people spend it. more resources to to transport FIAT from shops to the banks.

let alone all the costs of resourses for all the bank staff, the leaflets and paper contracts and every other detail related to dealing with fiat. even down to the environmental costs of producing credit/debit cards needs to be included in the fiat environmental impact, to fully compare to bitcoin.

FIAT=1g of resources compared to bitcoin 30-70g? pfft as if

bitcoins environmental impact is sooooooooo much less. that video only talks about the electricity bill of fiat. not the fuel costs for transport or the ink costs paper costs.

flawed presentation but atleast its the first stepping stone to anyone who actually is interested in showing that bitcoin is more environmentally friendly.

"if you mine it, wealth will come"

ref: virtual currency 'field of dreams'

now the noobtubing C.O.D players can make money out of their PC's (still without leaving the basement or getting girlfriends)

bitcoin is not like gold. as gold has many uses beyond from trading value. bitcoins are more like art. to own, keep and sell for profit.

Historic art for the rich, is like bitcoin for everyone.

with 2 bitcoins in your wallet, your never poor.

much appreciated for the reply bitinstant. the post was more aimed at stuff like dwolla which has been noted to freeze funds in other threads with the OFAC excuse. But atleast your customers can remain confident with the bitinstant service.

sorry i dont have legal waffle and testimonials, guidelines or laws to quote, but this thread does concern legal issues with withdrawing funds and a easy way to ensure you are not frozen out due to other people.

although i use my personal details as i have nothing to hide. It has been highlighted that OFAC checks are hurting innocent people by freezing their funds because they use PO Boxes etc linked to criminals who also use the same PO Boxes or mailing services.

so i suggest even if your trades are all legal and you just don't want to for instance, be stalked by strangers on the internet trying to steal your laptop to get to your coins, thus using anonymous address.

Do a OFAC check to make sure that the mailing service that you decide to use is not linked to criminal activity. and to check that your name is not similar to any known criminals.
http://sdnsearch.ofac.treas.gov/

you don't want your funds frozen because of other peoples actions which you are not physically involved in. so do the check first.

saltyspitoon gets my vote

he seems to have a level head and advocates many alts, has some things in the pipeline concerning litecoin and deals alot on BTC-E and the litecoin global. so his comments may be lacking but his mind is in the right place.

which is what a mod should be.

knowing what is best without having to start arguments or make comments.

it wasn't a mega poke at the website, more of the fact that only half a bitcoin got donated. and a bit of reverse psychology making people hopefully pay more and demand less sadistic pleasures lol (i say this because i heard stories about girls being told to defecate and eat it, in exchange for tips.not on the bitcoin version but other versions) the standard hairbrush handle up the glory hole is not as bad.

but atleast make reasonable donations.
its better then a porn DVD because its interactive 'asking' for requests. and she does have college to pay for.

informing them of bitcoin, maybe fine. telling them to google stuff maybe fine. but linking them to websites and informing them your going to offer a service requesting their game tokens for a currency they only learnt about through you.

well risky.

maybe should have spread the posts out abit. get them use to bitcoin before informing them ur going to offer a service. or all they will read is a cryptic way of u asking for their game tokens.

just dont throw too much at them in one guy. you have to build up trust and understanding slowly and not believe that you will get it automatically purely because you believe in it yourself using one post.

acceptable:
have you heard about bunny credits. google them or check out this link weusebunny.com..

not acceptable:
have u heard about bunny credits. i have been using them for years. and soon i will be trading game tokens for bunny credits. contact me if interested. here are some links to help you understand its all above board. weusebunny.com bunnytalk.org

  yet another idea to just stir the pot of currency in circles without expanding its reach.

when is the next business plan that is going to come along which actually gets non bitcoiners involved. i havent seen one for a while.

just more mixer ideas where the inventor skims 2% off the top.
peter pays in, paul cashes out and jack takes his cut.

i kind of feel sorry for the girls.

they get on cam for some strangers to gorp at them for atleast an hour demanding every depraved act they would never ask a real woman to do face to face. all for less then minimum wage.

EG:
http://imgur.com/r/GirlsGoneBitcoin/jSMXu
follow the bitcoin address listed
http://blockchain.info/address/189NL3bBBuCNbPNzFdTiPBVhqA19NnRbYh

3 donations totalling half a bitcoin.

yep if the exact same wording is wrote on many different websites, then its just like those Nigerian bank emails you receive lol

here is the full paragraph

though it could be advertising a miner. the way it is worded seems to be an attempt to not explain too much detail, where as anyone who actually uses bitcoin would understand the detail to not need it simplified in a concealed way and treated like an automated faucet program, miner or whatever it is trying to advertise.

either way the destination website (coinbit) has removed its videos and the link is removed so it seems the scam is already averted.

plus those are guidelines not rules.

An economy consists of the economic systems of a country or other area; the labor, capital, and land resources; and the manufacturing, production, trade, distribution, and consumption of goods and services of that area.

economics speculation is about discussions of all the possibilities of future outcomes of all the items listed in economy.

anyway from an economics point of view talking about how to get a currency growth is a relevent matter as it covers resources, capital distribution, consumption. not just limiting economics to an exchange rate.. as thats trade, which is only a small part of economics.

so lets get to the point. if a crypto was to expand to be part of world economy. which would be easier to manage/achieve that goal. bitcoin or litecoin.

even a simple thing where all litecoin clients and exchanged require an ID/Password to make the blockchain atleast more transparent for enforcement agencies to regulate would be something bitcoin would object to. but litecoin wouldnt care about.

people would just learn to do dodgy stuff with BTC and then transfer it either to dollars or litecoin. and the reputable traders can easily see who spent what so they can then give some consumer protection, possibly even chargebacks/refunds if more protocols got changed.

the worlds your oyster with litecoin. where as bitcoin is limiting its expansion.

obviously alot of work would need to go into the development/ regulation side for world adoption from non crypto consumers but for now getting a few merchants just to feed us crypto lovers is achievable. especially if bitinstant allow a instant LTC to FIAT service.

parts of previous message may only make sense to the original thread posters. sorry for new readers in the new subsection of forum if this is the case but i did not want to sideline the objective of that main thread with a discussion that came up.

if anyone is interested to know.it concerns me loving litecoins because they are the clean slate, no taint, less headache crypto that has less objections to it being adopted by merchants (if they had access to a bitinstant debit card for instant FIAT transfers.)

all the waffle found https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119732.0.

i deemed it as a speculation topic as it talks about the future speculation of crypto

to yuhfhrh i understand they are both the same. my second paragraph "and litecoin is just the same"

may i just add welldone on your 1000th post..  

bitcoin is in a 'catch 22' where it prospers because its anonymous but it wont become regulated because its anonymous. if it became regulated the userbase would jump ship. instead it is left stuck in a 100k population only able to get small businesses onboard for miners to spend their earnings on. very hard to get bitcoin to mass market to compete alongside fiat. (yes i said compete with. not overtake or remove fiat as thats impossible)

and litecoin is just the same in regards to tax evasion, capital transfers. but it doesnt have a major desire for anonymity due to the lack of drug users. so it is less so stuck in the catch 22 bitcoin is in.

it is possible that bitcoin would get regulated. the drugs business runs off, userbase decreases. and then slowly builds up as a regulated, consumer friendly virtual currency. But that is alot of hurdles to jump.

where as litecoin is like a clean slate for the crypto world that want a proper real world alternative to FIAT (in a few decades after many stepping stones are dealt with ofcourse). never to replace FIAT as that will never happen, but to atleast work along side of fiat.

when speaking to merchants, they still have a few main objections to accepting bitcoin from the pretence of just the crypto community using their service, (ill talk about non tech savvi consumers further down)

1) easy non headache solution to getting their fiat for stock/wages
2) media propganda puts them off..
3) no loss of value if the exchange value drops from the time of product purchase to the time they get 'after hours' to cash-up and cash out of BTC.

so bitinstant prepaid card for bitcoin would solve point one and point three. and the same goes for litecoin if bitinstant made a litecoin prepaid card too. same also goes for any virtual curency so lets say, facebook credits if there was a option for a FBC to FIAT. a merchant would accept anything if it was easy to manage and there was a population demand for it.

litecoin already solves point two as there is no bad press, its just like bitcoin but gone back in time a couple years.

i never said that tomorrow litecoin would be a mass market virtual currency for consumer. it involves stepping stones. i and many have found talking about bitcoin to merchants, a hurdle(reasons above). but then slipping into the conversation, litecoin as the clean alternative and a possibility of a crypto to FIAT automated exchange to a debit card gets there interest.

lets address the regulated/consumer protection thing.
trying to get BTC regulated and removing / reducing silkroads presence is not an easy task. so isnt it just easier to start with a fresh slate and make a few notable real world businesses being the flagships for that crypto. to then encourage more business, instead of dealing with drug propoganda and go against what bitcoin is all about in the first place.

just like bitcoin when it gets to the point of non tech savvi consumers using it for wages/groceries you are right it does require many steps to get price stability and regulations in place along with other needed stuff. which BOTH currencies are not in any way, shape or form ready for the non crypto consumers to handle.

but the baby steps are to atleast get some businesses to adopt Litecoin for us tech savvi, crypto lovers to spend our mining earnings on, just like bitcoin done a couple years back. the businesses themselves would pay the crypto instantly to a debit card at a fixed value using the live price of the time of product purchase/crypto deposit to debitcard provider.
Meaning they are safe from large volatile changes because they never keep the crypto in their hands for long.

the difference is that if a crypto currency was to become regulated i know those druggies and anonymous loving users would not want it to happen to bitcoin because that is what bitcoin is all about, anonymity. so litecoin would be a positive solution to them. they could continue doing what they have been doing for the last couple years without their fears of regulation and enforcement agencies.

basically learning from bitcoin, and overcoming objections with actual solutions for both the anonymous lovers and the businesses.

but then again i am talking about litecoin on a bitcoin forum so i take favouritism from anyone with a pinch of salt as its expected.

im not sure if charlie thinks bitcoin is going to be the mass market thing in a few decades. or they think both wont ever get beyond the niche market of mining earning being spent meaning no non tech savvi consumer use of it. or if they just don't want anything to do with litecoin purely on bitcoin favouritism.

but it doesn't sound like charlie likes litecoin much.

i will just add this to my lengthy waffle. The 50+pages of troll statement about the foundation objectors.. i understand the thread you think i refer to. but i did not limit my numbers to just that single thread. i count many threads with objections to the foundation which total 50+.

due to my reply being off topic to the good work bitinstant done at las vegas ill just link in my reply. to avoid sidelining the main topic.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=121480.msg1309971#msg1309971

i advocate ANY crypto for many different reasons, and i salute bitinstant because of the ideologies as an alternative to FIAT payment systems.

i think half of the posters did not read the full article and are trying to grasp how to legally classify bitcoins compared to digital version of fiat so here goes...


if the value in digital form represents the same numeric value (minus commissions/fee's) as the FIAT payment made to obtain it, and also the digital balance uses the FIAT symbols £ $ Euro etc then this is called 'E-Money' which is regulated by financial institutions. EG paypal, moneygram, online bank account balance
if the digital numeric balance has no obvious comparison to the FIAT amount paid and does not use FIAT symbols this is called virtual currency.  which is not regulated by financial institutions. EG 23Bunny points for $1 or 1BTC  for $11

e-Money regulated. Virtual currency not regulated. they are separate classifications and not the same thing.

the virtual currencies are then divided into sub categories depending on their use and impact to real world markets
type 1 (least impact) where you can purchase points but not redeem them back for FIAT. EG facebook credits, microsoft points.
type 2 where virtual currencies can be traded back and forth for FIAT
type 3 like type 2 but also used as means of trading real life products and wages.

if you skip down to chapter 4 of the PDF :THE RELEVANCE OF VIRTUAL CURRENCY SCHEMES FOR CENTRAL BANKS it has a few things to note about it.

regulations do not affect the bitcoin community by controlling what you do with coins to purchase products. so if you buy gold. you are 100% free of income taxes (but the sellers value stil incorporates sales tax if they are a legitimate business that requires sales tax in that country).

BUT if you want FIAT for your BTC then regulations do come into play once a fiat request happens or when fiat exchanges hands. which is where MTGOX, Bitinstant have to be regulated. but the guy selling alpaka socks for BTC does not have to be regulated.

they cannot find enough evidence that it is a ponzi scheme due to the fact that there is not one single entity in control of it to in human terms. close the doors and run off with all the FIAT equivelent of all the coins.

but they can class it as high risk due to the monopoly where there is a lack of multiple main payment gateways in and out. basically bitinstant mtgox holding the largest value exchange with a few dozon very small in comparison exchanges.

that due to this if a majority stake was to cash out it would easily destabilise the market.

EG the 5 people with other 300k BTC could take a huge portion of the FIAT market capital. as noted by the summer 2011 events that made BTC shrink to only a few cents

hoarders are mainly people with day jobs to pay the bills so have no great desire to spend the coins just yet

in response to robkohr statement
are you kidding me?

lets say there is 11mill coins in circulation. and hoarders keep 10mill of them. all the other users will fight for the remaining 1 mill of coins left in the ether. raising their bids to get those elusive coins, causing a price increase.

because bitcoin cannot buy a loaf of bread or a carton of milk its not like it would be hard for people to adapt to higher prices seeing as value can auto adjust due to live pricing API's used in sourcecodes of websites.

basically if this week $10 gives you 1 bitcoin which is worth a viagra pill or other drug. in a couple years that $10 only gives you 50,000 satoshi's which still equate to a pill.. so all them pill pushers still get their fiat value and same amount of pills no matter what the btc price does. so traders don't lose out

and for the hoarders, by not trading them, their investment grows.. but by spending them they would dilute the demand causing a prices drop. so its always best to hold and wait.

so how is hoarding bad??

why do you think the rich guys are rich.. because they accumilate and they hold. those with million dollar a year salerys don't spend that million dollars each year. maybe spend half keep half. but those on minimum wage have no choice but to spend their income.

the other thing to think about is if everyone cashed out via bitinstant instead of holding them. bitinstants 'reserves' will empty. so say goodbye to the $110mill that is floating around in bitinstant, moneygram, mtgox, BTC-E and other reserves.

if all that is left is $10k to represent the 11mill coins then the value of a BTC would go down to under 1c a coin. so i ask again

how is hoarding bad??

didnt the bitcoin euro convention 2011 mention going to the restaurant at the end of capitalism.

EDIT
just googled it:

http://www.bitcoin2012.com/speakers
Joerg Platzer (founding member of the Berlin based Crypto Currency Consulting Group) finds a crypto-currency based financial system would be the second best financial system we can imagine. He loves Bitcoin to bits. That's why he accepts it at ROOM77, the restaurant at the end of capitalism. His talk is on certainty. Probably.