the otc-uk meant to be used for trading coins not general UK chitchat but theres nothing stopping us UK lot starting a UK chat hash on IRC,

me and mark lyford have already had some skype chit chat with a couple other like minded UK lot. so skype is another option for those wanting to get businesses set up where anonymity is not going to be an issue to argue about

ok we have newyork, sanfransisco as the main bitcoin hubs of USA, i think amsterdam is the bitcoin capital of europe. and looks like brighton will be the bitcoin capital of UK

inedible thanks for the defense but um.. yea.. nycsquire was talking about the OP.. meaning JackH .. not me

so nycSquire was asking if JackH would go to an attorney.

that being said. if/when i set up an exchange or anything involving fiat i will be FSA regulated.(or maybe wink wink i already am under my real life birth certified identity.. just not as this franky persona)

http://blockchain.info/q/addressbalance/1YourPublicAddressGoesHere

if using PHP
$atoshi = file_get_contents('http://blockchain.info/q/addressbalance/1YourPublicAddressGoesHere');
$bitcoin = $atoshi /100000000;
echo $bitcoin;

or something like that

a ATM roll out can be done cheaply.

instead of "international company ATM" buying licence for every state, every province and every country of the world. they simply need to franchise.

where lets say a franchisee works as a subsidiary of "international company ATM" and only pays for the licence of that state they wish to work within.

that way "international company ATM" is then covered in that state and the franchisee can then run the business from that state (refilling the machines, maintenance, and placing the machines in key locations within the state) and they get a nice cut of the spread in return.

think about it 50+ franchisee's in america each just paying for a licence for the state they wish to cover.
The UK as another franchisee only paying for the UK regulatory FSA approval.
all under the umbrella name of the ATM company. making it world wide legal to offer fiat/bitcoin swaps.

putting the bitcoin into a third party service such as a bank is countering the point of decentralisation. and here is why.

1) trusting any third party to look after your funds requires trust, insurances, and full disclosure of that persons life, and legal contracts to ensure of limitation of losses.

2) for safety i would never say trust a third person to look after your funds. instead there are products that do not touch other people in which you can store your private keys on for safe storage: BitSafe, USB memory stick, paper..... need i say more

3) there will be services to make transactions of pocketmoney amounts easier such as escrow services which can ensure payments to merchants by having it pre-paid into an escrow service to get the confirms. and later in the day spend at a whim throughout the day with 0 wait time. EG deposit under 1btc while taking morning shower. which will then be ready to spend at starbucks by the time you get there, saving you waiting.... But storing your life savings of bitcoin, definitely don't trust it in a third person.

if you want to see the risks of the 'bank' model where even the owner revealing their name and address.. simply research Trendon Shavers AKA Pirate@40.

if you are not a licenced, regulated service then do not expect anyone to trust you as a bank.

not even sure why jack H thinks he is an expert.

he is obviously american. but even from his first post i had a few face palms reading his advice.

firstly
to avoid SEC/fincen he is right trade in europe.. but then your going to get hit by their eu regulations. which if you look at the history of american bitcoin exchanges trying to offer UK/EU services (covered by euro money laws) get shut down alot more harshly for not having the licences.

secondly
avoiding the licences of the country which the bank account exists in is not good legal advice.

thirdly
SEC/Fincen/EU regulations dont care about bitcoin. all they care about is the fiat side so concentrating on rebranding bitcoin as a bond wont change anything. because your still avoiding the fiat licences. so your still going to get caught.

my advice if you want to be a good exchange, be a expert money manager, with proof that you can with confidence handle large sums of fiat/bitcoin. and the best proof to achieve this is.... by putting your own money where your mouth is and pay for the fiat licences required by the law of the country you have the bank account set to.

if you want to legally avoid the liceneces/regulations. avoid FIAT. and only trade the different alt-currencies between each other.

now here is some actual practical advice.
knowing the licences are expensive here is the solution.
get 10 qualified and eager people that want to set up exchanges but cannot themselves afford the licences. combine your funds and form 1 business, and 9 subsiduaries.

for instance. bitcoin-central has licences for europe. bitinstant has licences for the US, and there is another exchange starting up in the UK which will have UK licences, all three partner up and form a official international company FIAT gateway, and then have their own business(which i already named) as the subsiduary business for each of their own area's of expertise.

everyone is individual and unique, exactly like everyone else......

for the whole lobbying government to help free market and entrepeuners, i would prefer to use the people in new hampshire as oppose to the bitcoin foundation as they seem to have a community philospohy, where as the bitcoin foundation as a more commercial philosophy.

the only way to change that is not by arguing against them, but to change them from within.. that goes for the foundation and government departments

SOME of you guys have little to no clue about real world stuff..

if you want bitcoin to fiat conversions then you have to accept that things need regulating. and if you want more relaxed regulations such as cheaper regulatory licensing to allow small businesses have the ability to compete against the centralised giants then that requires lobbying.

those that dont want lobbying or regulations. give me your FIAT and stop using it. find other methods of dealing with bitcoin EG trading bitcoins for bread, milk, meat and veg. dont touch the FIAT if you want a free market.

that is the simple answer.

regulations will not/have not made bitcoin owned by governments, what regulations do though is ensure that FIAT transactions are traceable, which is the same laws that have been around for years. the regulations have not changed.

bitcoin is not money. remember that. FIAT is money. and the government regulations are about FIAT.
you know the coins and bank notes with £$ symbols on them, they are trademarks of their respective governments/countries.
$ is a trademark of the US governments. £ is the trademark of the UK government. its their property so they have the rights to licence it however they please.

if you trade milk for bread that is not making a profit, due to the fact that with bartering it is a straight swap. but if you then sell the swapped item back to FIAT they will then want to know about this sudden appearance of their property.

so make your own personal decisions, do you want some lobbying to make it more fair and cheaper to offer bitcoin/fiat exchanges or will you get out of the basement and start up grocery stores to trade and barter bitcoins for other items.

arguing on a forum is just whispers that can be ignored if you think that just revoking membership from your sofa cushion will change anything.

bitcoin can never be owned by any sole person/entity/business... because bitcoin is not a single thing. the bitcoin is the blockchain, which can never be taken away.

if the government were to buy up or take ownership of the trademark "bitcoin" that is fine too.. it does not affect the blockchain, all it means is we rename the blockchain currency satoshi's or something else, within minutes we are back in business without any damage.

so stop getting hysterical about government taking over bitcoin.
if the government wanted to take a 20% cut of virtual currency(which is impossible). then make some game-bots to make billions upon billions of game gold in zynga, world of warcraft, etc and send that to the government as a form of protest, while still "paying them".. they will soon see that the value they get given is not as valuable as what we hold. and will soon learn to work with us, instead of against us.

the new hampshire project is working in the right direction, so is the sea-steading projects, actually speaking to government departments to make it easier to trade freely. which will surprisingly make their beloved FIAT move more freely from bank account to bank account. rather then being hoarded in secret off shore accounts.

think about the big picture guys and stop getting hysterical about "government is out to get us" .. seriously arguing on a forum wont change the laws for our benefit and ignoring the laws that have been around for many many years wont benefit you either.

my 7am tinfoil hat moment.
maybe mochizuki didnt write bitcoin. maybe a robot twin did


ok that was for laughs, but seriously lets move this mochizuki myth to the speculation or trash thread.

you do realise that if bitcoin was closed source using code that could not be reverse engineered then knowing the source would be important. and by source i mean source code.

but its open source.

people that say they can't trust bitcoin because they do not know the creator. well that is just rediculous. the bible is the most trusted and most read book in the world, yet all people know is that it was wrote by a bunch of guys. they cant be questioned or reveal any more secrets.. can they..

all people need to do is actually read the words to understand it and form educated opinions. basing opinions on something you have not even read will always have haters not understanding it.
that goes for bitcoin and the bible.

and by the way i am not christian but i have read the bible cover to cover... best fantasy story i have ever read, i wont ruin the ending for everyone. 

the only reason mtgox got hit now 4 years after bitcoin was released to the world is because of these 2 reasons
1) there was a confidential informant that spotted a bank account which was not linked to a money transmitter licence.
2) fincen a majority of the time only get information from SARS reports and information of crimes, issues. meaning they are re-active, not pro-active.

the money transmitter licences have been a regulatory requirement for many years. its nothing new. the only difference is that the regulations have been posted on youtube instead of only a government building, so it just seems new to many people afraid of talking to government agencies.

and now for the 3 possible answers to why
1) it took so long because only one year ago bitcoin was not on every news station every week for jealous people such as gold hoarders or other exchanges to think that bitcoin as a threat, for them to then think of ways to harm it.
2) it only takes 1 scam artist to try asking their bank to reverse a bank transfer calling it fraud, which would start bank investigations into the legality of the business receiving funds.
3) a burned customer that lost their life savings betting at the wrong price,

i think that it was a personal attack on mtgox, not bitcoin. due to the DDOS and the warrant. a little strange how the other exchanges have not had much attacks.
It could be said that the personal attacks were due to mtgox's size as oppose to personal reasons such as a jealous competing exchange but thats speculatation..

but getting back to the point. if your not fully regulatory compliant to handle fiat. it is not IF you will get caught, it is WHEN you will get caught.

having happy customers that wont stab you in the back reporting you, due to offering good customer service or guaranteed steady and safe price movements so that no one loses out, will not protect you. it will only delay Fincen finding out your not regulated.. especially around the time of year tax returns are filed.

the government are not over regulating anything. the regulations have been the same for years, the only thing they are now doing is trying to tell it in laymens terms for the lazy people that don't want to read the regulations. in the hope that people wanting to start up exchanges atleast have half an idea what they are obligated to do to play with large amounts of other peoples money, or atleast what to avoid if they want to live a 100% bitcoin existance

does it really matter who satoshi is,

how many know or care who alexander hamilton or King Offa of Mercia are and want to meet up with these guys for what they done.

just accept it an entity with a name made something.. now enjoy the rewards. knowing their true identity wont change anything and even knowing who, most of the forum readers here would not even do anything beyond it. so how about concentrate all your mind sets on main streaming bitcoin instead of who created it.

as long as they don't claim that they are satoshi nakamoto and try sueing gavin andressen for some odd reason links with stealing code.

.... but then again, it would make a nice sequel to the social network movie and gain some more publicity

LOL i love all of your government fearing mindsets. mostly trained by you all watching too many illuminati videos and conspiracy theories on youtube.

how about make a phone to government agencies and talk to them. they are human too even if they do have scripts they read from. atleast you will know what their thought plan is, instead of using opinions from others like the game of chinese whispers.

and for the satoshi being related to government agencies such as NSA. Actually do some research. one of Satoshi's last conversations with Gavin andresen was where Gavin informed Satoshi that Gavin was invited to do a presentation at a CIA conference. then satoshi rage quit.

if satoshi was NSA/CIA owned code-name they would have had private conferences, and not asked Gavin to come along because satoshi would have informed NSA CIA everything they needed to know, if satoshi was a government owned entity

block bitcoin transactions? well thats ok, as a new version of bitcoin-qt that transmits data on a different port number or a different method can take maybe 5 minutes to implement and then publicise.

it would take a total internet blackout to stop transactions. but even then people will start using cell phones and satellite internet methods to connect together. so bitcoin is diverse enough to survive government attacks.

why else do you think the Tor project has not been taken down.

seeing as the american bitcoin foundation own the main coding of the QT Client. They are looking (mentioned in the bitcoin conference 2013) for 'chapters' of the bitcoin foundation for each country.

Where by each chapter hosts the idea's and projects for that country. EG UK mining, UK main-streaming, publicising, media relations, legal framework, etc, etc.

maybe becoming a central UK point such as a UK chapter of bitcoin foundation, but with actual projects happening beyond just funding QT client programmers. With actual help and support that media, merchants and miners can come to.

As well as the business subsidiaries offering these services/products to make main-streaming and consumer absorption easier.

OK lets get the facts straight. The government is not after bitcoin!

They are after lazy, amateurs that want to open exchanges, but don't want to pay the licence and regulation fee's to handle the FIAT side.

Banks and government love their FIAT, after all FIAT is the government and banks property, so if your worried about regulations then at least read them and realise that a MONEY transmitter is a FIAT transmitter.

if you don't want to abide by regulations then simply don't touch FIAT