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in many developed countries where EMPLOYEES have their income tax removed from their wage slip before it hits their bank account. most of these countries have minimum wage laws stating the employee needs to be paid X fiat per hour minimum, making it hard to break away to a bitcoin payment method
but for self employed/contracted work/ temp work this is easier to achieve
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more revolutionary idea:
take the 3600 coins made per day.. take the total miners by day. to give you a average income per person per day.
treat this as minimum wage a days labour.
EG (simplified) lets say there is 7200 miners = 0.5BTC per day per miner.
national minimum wage for US=$7.25 x 10 hours 72.50
national minimum wage for UK=£6.31 x 10 hours 63.10
so making an acceptable living lifestyle on bitcoin of 1BTC = $145 / £126.20 each
I like your idea here. But alas, would you like to buy a BTC from me for $145? Oh. yes i would. because stage 2 of the idea is pricing food and goods in bitcoin the same way governments price food/groceries based on the "living costs vs minimum wage" calculations. then we will base bitcoin based on costs of living such as how many loaves of bread can be bought with a standard wage atleast then we are less reliant on a fiat valuation, but more so on a barter/ good value pricing this is how i think satoshi and all them freedom fighters envisioned the future of bitcoin. before mtgox pegged it directly to a dollar valuation. and the reason i say yes i would is because i value bitcoin as it should be.. your still thinking like a sheep. looking at the mtgox price and saying $110 vs $145... profit!!! which goes against the point of this thread.. |
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more revolutionary idea:
take the 3600 coins made per day.. take the total miners by day. to give you a average income per person per day.
treat this as minimum wage a days labour.
EG (simplified) lets say there is 7200 miners = 0.5BTC per day per miner.
national minimum wage for US=$7.25 x 10 hours 72.50
national minimum wage for UK=£6.31 x 10 hours 63.10
so making an acceptable living lifestyle on bitcoin of 1BTC = $145 / £126.20 each
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If the idea is to have a price that is quoted, as the price of bitcoin, then the best option is to just do an average of averages.
For instance, if you have 10 different exchanges, you sample the price at each exchange on the hour, and average the price, having sliced the top and bottom prices from the sum.
This formula would be accurate enough to give info, but not too accurate to cause caching or logging issues. Anything more would be taken directly from the exchange being used to trade from.
If someone wanted to create a 30 day average price, they could from the figure created every hour, but for the rawest useful global number, I think this might work!
the only problem with sampling 10 exchanges is that each exchange seems to follow (like sheep) mtgox. EG bitstamp is usually $1 more BTC-e is usually a little less.. but whenever mtgox skyrockets or plummits.. the others follow suit for no direct reasons but to stay in toe of mtgox value, thus bringing you back to a average of 10 exchanges still being the same as mtgox |
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xrp are not suppose to be traded like another pump-dump alt coin.
it suppose to be used as the transaction fee's for the ripple developers.
so the true question and answer is
Q: How much is my 40k Ripple worth?
A: 40k transactions
atleast try learning what these services are entended to be used for
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by asking your project leader who is designing your asic miners you promoted two weeks ago as one of your projects that you pretend to be an expert of..
oops you are the project leader of that ... hmm guess thats you stuck then.
ill even start laughing now if you say your laptop is a Geforce GPU.
2 most silliest things,
1. mining on a laptop
2. laptop being geforce based
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no offence but letting the pub make a few extra % profit by accepting bitcoin should be allowed right now as their convenience fee. once more pubs start spouting up and its a mainstream thing, then some price accuracies will come into play.
None taken. I wasn't referring to the fee as much as the apparent difficulty of swapping bitcoins for cash ("We are currently looking for a new route... ") - a good opportunity for bitcoin traders to snag coins at a reasonable price and its likely an issue that all bitcoin accepting businesses will face. Having a buyer - either a reliable local trader who commits to buying, or a "webuybitcoins.com" - would go some way to remove the risks for businesses. Maybe individualpubs just needs to set up a localbitcoins.com account. with free "fastpayment" services which UK banks offer. bitcoin is not really as big of a positive thing VS US banks which cost fee's and takes days to move cash. so the UK is slower on the uptake as their is less 'need' for an alternative here. but once alot more mainstreaming happens we will see professionals with proper finance experience and willing to pay the FSA fee's start to form in the UK. but right now using a bank for free account to account transfer of cash, vs bitpay 1% fee is not a good business plan for starting a UK bitpay. however having a few very reputable people on Bitcoin-otc-uk who will happily be on every evening between 11pm-3pm each night to transfer bitcoin to UK pound is something to look into. just remember if each person sticks to a £850 per customer daily limit, that does not breach the FSA limts to then require regulation and all the AMLKYC stuff as thats classed as personal transfer amounts, not business (best to double check this with FSA first though) |
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if fee's become too low, the hundreds of thousands of miners would then move onto retail services or other things to make money. making the difficulty change and then leaving maybe 20k miners to take a bigger slice of the rewards pie with less competition so its profitable.
the whole idea that bitcoin needs millions of miners and everyone should be a miner is narrow minded, yes it is good for security but as more people join the mining pools they are just shooting themselves in the foot by not having as mucha big slice of the pie as they would without inviting 10 of their friends each to start mining.
basically, it will sort itself out in the end through natural selection. those that can afford to continue mining even in less profitable times will win, and those that demand profit promptly just to survive will move onto different income making projects.
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MTGox now seem to require all accounts to be verified, so even with my small amounts I now have to go through the process, MTGox have been convenient. I am in UK, and the UK driving licence was accepted. A second document was required, related to residency. (I note that the UK Driving Licence includes my address). Most of my life is online, and I do not use medical insurance. Online stuff, including internet, is not repeat not, delivered to my door in the street address!
- Monthly utility bill
- Internet Bill
- Cellphone Bill
- Tax Return document
- Residency Certificate
- Medical insurance bill
I provided a motor insurance renewal request - addressed and delivered to my residence which includes insurance references which are verifiable, but this was refused. Anyone in UK using lots of online accounts (with no addressed paperwork to scan and send) already gone through this process? In UK I do my tax return online too, although I do have a *paper* request for my tax return to be filed. I do not want to use this as it necessarily includes much more information than just my name and address, UK National Insurance identity number for example.
I have a dental bill which is annual (wrong date), I am still thinking.....
Even my TV receive licence is no longer sent in paper, annually.
Unless I can find something to suit, it looks as if I might have to say goodbye to MTGox.....
Any ideas?
obviously mtgox knows what its checking service prefers, especially what it is allowed to check from foreign countries. so ask them directly. i still find it strange how most people are afraid to talk to their bank, or even a bitcoin exchange directly.... |
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In traditional slots you pay a coin, and if a certain sequence comes up, you get some winnings. I think everyone will agree that's a form of gambling.
In bitcoin, to create coins, you pay some electricity, and if a sequence of 0's comes up, you win some bitcoins.
Is this aspect a form of gambling?
And if so, is that illegal in the U.S.?
just like FIAT if you work in a factory and have a set target of products to create, if you reach the magic number you see a nice jackpot on your wage slip. if you dont reach the magic number, expect to work saturdays. then you go to buy car fuel and try searching for the best place to get the best price fuel. gambling you get to the cheapest fuel station in your town before the car's fuel tank empties. now your car is fuelled up, do you gamble going home to your wife who may or may not be sat there waiting to trade you your wage slip for the household bills. or do you gamble spending the wages on a few pints in a bar. everything is a gamble these days |
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Awesome. And great info as to how they go about accepting bitcoin: This bit is interesting: The reason we only offer 92% of the current 7-day weighted price is that there are fees associated with converting Bitcoin back into Sterling. When we used OKpay the fees amounted to about 7%. We are currently looking for a new route to convert BTC to Sterling; until we find one it seems prudent to expect to have to pay a fairly high percentage fee. Surely a great opportunity for someone to exchange bitcoins for cash. A local trader offering a service akin to localbitcoins.com but aimed squarely at businesses in his or area that accept bitcoins. Commit (contractually) to buying all the bitcoins a business takes each day or week at a rate determined by ref to the then current MtGox rate. If someone really wanted to take the initiative, they'd make this part of a service that encourages other business owners to accept bitcoin. Till/payment management software is the tricky bit, but obviously very doable. EDIT: Having read further, it looks like Steve provides the service himself: Once a sufficient number of Bitcoins have been accumulated in reconciled transactions, Steve uses an external service to convert them to Sterling. If the amount received in Sterling is greater than the amount paid to the pub company, Steve records a profit. If it is lower, Steve records a loss. At the end of the tax year, Steve will pay tax in Sterling based on the total profit or loss in the year. no offence but letting the pub make a few extra % profit by accepting bitcoin should be allowed right now as their convenience fee. once more pubs start spouting up and its a mainstream thing, then some price accuracies will come into play. |
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Bitcoin is simply too new for any locality to be "friendly". Banks consider Bitcoin to be high "risk" even if the entity/company has absolutely no cases of fraud, customer complaints, etc.
Among least Bitcoin friendly I would put USA, UK, and to a lesser extent Australia.
Among Bitcoin "friendly" I would put Canada. Probably more accurately is that Canada is Bitcoin neutral.*
The bigger issue is that most Bitcoin related enterprises (this doesn't mean companies buying or selling goods for Bitcoins) need to interface with the existing financial networks in some fashion. Banks however are private property and in most countries an account can be denied or closed for any reason or even a lack of reason as long as the Bank doesn't violate some protected class (race, religion, etc). Banks are highly risk prone (unless it has high rewards) and most startups aren't going to generate meaningful amounts of revenue for any major bank. Hence the default option is close the account. The account has unusual activity, no reason to investigate, close it. The account scores as high risk, don't negotiate contingencies just close it. The account is involved in business the bank has little knowledge or understanding of, don't ask the owner for information just close it. To overcome this on a large scale may require chartering a national bank or credit union that is at least Bitcoin neutral.
* Canada at least respects the rule of law. Canada has stated their EXISTING laws/regulations on MSB and Money Transmitters doesn't cover virtual currencies. This isn't to say Canada doesn't want to regulate Bitcoin related enterprises or that they won't pass new laws in the future however unlike the US they are honest enough to say "hey look Bitcoin likely should be regulated but current statutes don't give us that authority, to do so we need new ones". FinCEN on the other hand did a bunch of mental gymnastics (hint: if you need to define 18 new terms which don't exist in current law in your "guidance" in order for current law to "fit" you have just defacto written new law), to force Bitcoin a square peg into the MT round hole because it was the only one which was even sorta close. This has a whole range of unintended consequences and creates additional vagueness in compliance because some of the MT requirements simply don't even make sense when not dealing with a third party (i.e. MT regs are built around the concept of PERSON-A ----> Money Transmitter (regulated) ----> PERSON B).
actually bitcoin is not illegal in the places listed above. the best place to start a bitcoin business is europe, but as long as your offering legit goods or services for bitcoin you can pretty much start anywhere. so if everyone started acting like the real world where there's only handfuls of gold miners /exchangers in an area but millions of retailers. that is how bitcoin can and should legally expand. everyone seems to be under the misguided concept that the only way to make money is through mining or forex exchanging. where i am (in the UK) my bank manager knows about bitcoin, knows the risks, and knows me. yet has no problems allowing me to do business with bitcoins. the same with many countries. the problem lies where bitcoin entrepreneurs suddenly think that because they own bitcoin, they can also act anonymously when it comes to their fiat trades too. this actual thread should not be, which country is the most bitcoin friendly.. but which country has the cheapest money transmission licences. as its the licence to play with large amounts of FIAT that is the problem.. not bitcoin so that the naive guys that are not finance experts can afford the licences, to naively become an exchange and make their money. i say naively because there's millions of other ways to make money and there are some people with financial exchange experience that can afford the licences, which should be doing it instead. purely on the bases they have better money management skills to be trusted with other peoples money. there needs to be a big push away from exchanges and mining, and more of a push on retail start ups. its all about knowing the rules and following them. and to not be an "teentrepreneur" rebelling against the 'man' like a teenager rebels against parents. but i would love to see a pricelist per country/province for money transmission licences |
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id love to see the top guys of industry who want bitcoins. offer their services/products instead of investing their profits in bitcoin
EG imagine bill gates sell microsoft products for bitcoins. instead of selling them for fiat and then using his FIAT profit to buy bitcoin
imagine richard branson offer airline/rail tickets, holiday reservations, music and dvd's for bitcoin. instead of using their fiat profit to buy bitcoin.
i think all of the big investors who own businesses should no longer just buy bitcoins. but to trade their products for bitcoin to get their investment requirements.
the problem is that bitcoin seems to still be for the basement dweller crowd or the 'teentrepreneurs' (teenage entrepeuners)
that are starting up new stuff, without past/high reputation to help them become the next big thing.
even places like walmart should get their main CEO to offer online ordering bitcoin payment options. and then offer to sell those bitcoins to their staff (to get reimbursed) or keep as bitcoin for the CEO's own personal investment fund
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technically not impossible
if you had under 10btc you could easily buy CNC coin at btc-e.com for 0.00048 and sell in a reasonably short time for 0.00049 giving you over 1% after fee's
but the thing is that the volume is low so throwing hundreds of bitcoin into one order price causes a wall which then stagnates the price.
that being said the profitability is not impossible. but trusting a stranger to look after you money and to also sweat their guts out, risk their reputation and give you profits instead of keeping them...... is not as easy to find.
basic rules of any money management. whether fiat or crypto. only give someone something you don't care losing if you don't know them or unable to meet them to slap them with a wet fish if they don't repay.
and if you personally are not confident about market trading i would not recommend trying to profit through market trading. instead start up a shop, sell your household products (like an online garage sale/ebay style)
make something that may be useful to others,
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it doesnt have a blockchain.. so its just another world of warcraft gold/facebook credit/amazon coin...
created out of thin air and centralised.. not really a threat to bitcoin just a way to reduce international licence fee's by doing all of their FIAT transactions from one office and use the other international offices for their special coin transactions.
plus only really useful for itunes customers.
so not really a new economy creator either
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actually buying bitcoins changes nothing in relation to banks.
FIAT still circulates around. so whether you have bought a case of baked beans or bitcoins, fiat is still changing hands.
whether i hand my FIAT to a retailer, or a bitcoin exchanger. it still circulates and sits in bank accounts. which banks love.
it wont be untill wages and salaries are paid in bitcoins for there to be less FIAT required in circulation, will we see any impact.
There is a realty business that pays their employees in Bitcoin if they want. Can't find it though. Isn't there another internet business that also allows their employees to get payment in Bitcoin? bitcoin foundation memory dealers bitpay BFL Avalon bitinstant to name a few, but combined thats only just over 100 employee's out of the billions around the world still passing FIAT between bank accounts. as an investor i use to invest in projects which had any links to bitcoin community. now im concentrating on businesses that truely wish to enter the economy. meaning opening grocery stores, DIY stores, electrical stores where staff are paid in bitcoin. every noob entering the community are in a trance that the only way to make bitcoin is through mining, and that alone is 'stickin it to the man' which isnt the case |
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actually buying bitcoins changes nothing in relation to banks.
FIAT still circulates around. so whether you have bought a case of baked beans or bitcoins, fiat is still changing hands.
whether i hand my FIAT to a retailer, or a bitcoin exchanger. it still circulates and sits in bank accounts. which banks love.
it wont be untill wages and salaries are paid in bitcoins for there to be less FIAT required in circulation, will we see any impact.
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Sorry if this is already on this forum but when I saw bitcoin hit 250 dollars, yet I had heard nearly NOTHING in the news about people who got rich ... i was confused.
Surely there must be hundreds of people out there who literally did cash out and buy their own plane or something.
Im surprised there is nothing in the news about it.
I even went back to April 1 on this forum and I see no threads with people saying "I just made 2 million dollars!" Why?
Clearly this would be for those who cashed out, so they are not targets for hacking . ... but how cool would it be to hear some stories about people who had success?
I did find one article saying 10 people who got rich, and it listed their names (facebook twins, etc) but it really didn't mention how much they made, or what they did with it.
-Burger-
Having watched a few shows about lottery winners who ended up having little to no wealth later on, it becomes apparent that one of the fastest ways to lose a lot of new money is when others start finding out that you have it. My guess is most people who made a lot of money on a cryptocurrency would also inherently understand the value of privacy. A lot of them might not also be thinking in terms of fiat any more! very true, i never discuss exact value's or business partners i invest in or any of that stuff.. especially with the no charge back blah blah, bitcoin does have alot of people that try sniffing out the rich guys and attempting to become their best friends. luckily i and a few others have stayed away from "bitcoin rich list addresses" and thats how it should be |
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this is only an issue for closed source software, but i think that instead of just allowing any call to be listened into the software providers should program a key into each internet call or each username. and only release this key when FBI produce a warrant showing that they have good reason to listen into username XYZ123.
for instance with telephone systems it should have been set that a phone company only releases recordings or access to a specific persons phone line on production of a warrant that stipulates a time-frame of x hours/day/weeks they are allowed access. and not just a open gateway to listen into anyone, any time for however long they like.
some countries say they have these laws inplace, but telephone/software companies just gave full access and hoped the government agencies would self regulate their actions to only access calls when there is good evidence to do so. which then allowed the authorities to side step certain laws by making up evidence and require only their chief/supervisor to authorise the snooping in.
this is almost as bad as allowing the government to have a key vut of your house doors, microphones fitted in the home and also access to your bank account.
im glad im not american.. the land of the free.........
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although joining forces with bitangels increases the available funds the group can share out to community /business projects. i have found that by combining into one group limits the amount of contracts/businesses it can help.
in the end i have found they end up giving more generously to a limited amount of start ups instead of helping more start ups expand.
i think more then one investment group is the way forward. that way each group can begin specialising in supporting certain niche's EG
one investment group could specialise in supporting ASICS, another can help retailers, etc etc. that way the groups are not just offering cash, but expertise aswell to insure a return on their investment.
many investment groups that have no speciality just hand out the money get the recipients to sign a legal binding contract and then simply wait for pay day to get a return.
im glad that bitangels and coin angels specialise in businesses that know and understand blockchains, but this may not be diverse enough.
great oppertunities are there and i know from first hand experience, its not always all about the money a business requires. i have helped out businesses with both funds and advice and the advise seems more appreciated then the funds. in a few scenario's businesses have repaid investments earlier as the advice ensured business growth or not requiring to spend as much, which helped both the investor and the business.
coinangels. welcome to the community, there is ALOT of potential here. good luck
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