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7141  Other / Meta / Re: Sales of accounts and invites to invite-only sites on: January 06, 2013, 02:18:59 AM
I like how shep is against selling torrent invites legitimately acquired but doesn't touch in the issue that torrent sites are practically used for piracy which is illegal.

Also, what about my signature space? Should I be banned for selling it? I haven't got permission from any of the site moderators to sell it!!!!!!
7142  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) Fork WITHOUT 80% Of Coins Given To FreiCoin Foundation on: January 06, 2013, 02:14:14 AM
So I take this fork / 51% takeover of FreiCoin is now dead.

Unfortunately, it never got off the ground. It was impossible for it to work how it was coded. I really hope TradeFortress is done posting about this. It's very embarrassing for him. I'm not sure if hes completely unaware of that or this is some weird troll.

yup i agree never got off the ground, we still wait for the bins
I'm really not going to focus any time on this fork because I think the best approach would be a new cryptocurrency protocol. Feel free to submit pull requests through.
7143  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) Fork WITHOUT 80% Of Coins Given To FreiCoin Foundation on: January 06, 2013, 01:54:41 AM
After thing about this issue a bit, the problem is the foundation ALREADY has 8 million Freicoins. We need to create a new coin, but I suggest something different.

Currently, all cryptocurrencies are based off Satoshi's bitcoin, with same or slightly modified protocols, and only some modifications (eg demurrage in Freicoin, block timings and distributions with other coins, proof of stake with PPCoin). But look at all the failed cryptocurrencies - we are essentially making a new Linux distro instead of actually making something new.

I propose making a new cryptocurrency from scratch and discussing and testing different ways to do it. Blockchain, hashcash-style mining, addresses, they're all one way to do things. There's bound to be better ways, and for a cryptocurrency to succeed we need to do it differently. Not blindly do things differently, but look at it and see which way is BETTER other than just creating a fork and modifying a bit of code from bitcoind.

I have a few ideas. For example, addresses. Instead of a clunky to remember, hard to type address, why not use something like this?

someguyswebsite.com/wallet
dicegame.com/lessthan512
192.168.0.12/lanpartydonations
wc6sbavw7fcotfgm.onion/order1274621
mywallet.bit/someusername

To verify those addresses, we could use a similar system to randomart. There's of course the attack where say you're on dicegame.com is compromised and the attacker changes the randomart displayed on the site for verification, but that's similar for bitcoin too. The coin obviously won't actually use http, it'll use it's own protocol, but will find addresses via DNS, tor, other darknets, etc etc.

Again, this is just one of the ideas I have about addresses. I'm sure if people think about it, experiment with some test code, we'd come across different ways, maybe better.

Another important thing is that the core development needs to be just that - core. Make the protocol extensible. Have headers, like HTTP requests. Over time, the community will enhance this currency by itself. For example, say a header called 'RETURN_ADDRESS: freewallet.org/ponies', say if you're betting on a gambling game and send an amount greater than the max bet, and you want returns in a DIFFERENT address (eg if you're withdrawing from an exchange) It's a nice thing to have, but it might not need to be in the core development. People will be able to add this feature, peers and nodes would implement and support it.

Take a look at websockets. Take a look at new IRC features and additions. If we make the protocol robust and extensible, the currency will involve by itself, and with the community and the users to make it last. There obviously would be a core set of guidelines - max cap of X coins, but if we discover a BETTER address system, maybe if someone wants to make it work with emails, they can code a module or extension, tell people and nodes to install and use it, and supported clients will use it automatically. Not supported? "Command not found. This command is part of coinemail, sudo cpm install coinemail".

Just some ideas. Can we do a system where transactions have a verifiable sending time? Use the hashcash mining system. A new "timecode" every 20 seconds (as it is not a block, it is not coupled with transactions, each timecode would just be a few bytes). Transactions would include the latest timecode as proof of when it was sent. First sent coins triumph in double spend attacks. 3 confirms in 1 minute on average. Still vulnerable to 51% attacks, but again this is just one idea.

Please stop.
Thank you for your informative and compelling comment, galambo.
7144  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) Fork WITHOUT 80% Of Coins Given To FreiCoin Foundation on: January 06, 2013, 01:47:19 AM
After thing about this issue a bit, the problem is the foundation ALREADY has 8 million Freicoins. We need to create a new coin, but I suggest something different.

Currently, all cryptocurrencies are based off Satoshi's bitcoin, with same or slightly modified protocols, and only some modifications (eg demurrage in Freicoin, block timings and distributions with other coins, proof of stake with PPCoin). But look at all the failed cryptocurrencies - we are essentially making a new Linux distro instead of actually making something new.

I propose making a new cryptocurrency from scratch and discussing and testing different ways to do it. Blockchain, hashcash-style mining, addresses, they're all one way to do things. There's bound to be better ways, and for a cryptocurrency to succeed we need to do it differently. Not blindly do things differently, but look at it and see which way is BETTER other than just creating a fork and modifying a bit of code from bitcoind.

I have a few ideas. For example, addresses. Instead of a clunky to remember, hard to type address, why not use something like this?

someguyswebsite.com/wallet
dicegame.com/lessthan512
192.168.0.12/lanpartydonations
wc6sbavw7fcotfgm.onion/order1274621
mywallet.bit/someusername

To verify those addresses, we could use a similar system to randomart. There's of course the attack where say you're on dicegame.com is compromised and the attacker changes the randomart displayed on the site for verification, but that's similar for bitcoin too. The coin obviously won't actually use http, it'll use it's own protocol, but will find addresses via DNS, tor, other darknets, etc etc.

Again, this is just one of the ideas I have about addresses. I'm sure if people think about it, experiment with some test code, we'd come across different ways, maybe better.

Another important thing is that the core development needs to be just that - core. Make the protocol extensible. Have headers, like HTTP requests. Over time, the community will enhance this currency by itself. For example, say a header called 'RETURN_ADDRESS: freewallet.org/ponies', say if you're betting on a gambling game and send an amount greater than the max bet, and you want returns in a DIFFERENT address (eg if you're withdrawing from an exchange) It's a nice thing to have, but it might not need to be in the core development. People will be able to add this feature, peers and nodes would implement and support it.

Take a look at websockets. Take a look at new IRC features and additions. If we make the protocol robust and extensible, the currency will involve by itself, and with the community and the users to make it last. There obviously would be a core set of guidelines - max cap of X coins, but if we discover a BETTER address system, maybe if someone wants to make it work with emails, they can code a module or extension, tell people and nodes to install and use it, and supported clients will use it automatically. Not supported? "Command not found. This command is part of coinemail, sudo cpm install coinemail".

Just some ideas. Can we do a system where transactions have a verifiable sending time? Use the hashcash mining system. A new "timecode" every 20 seconds (as it is not a block, it is not coupled with transactions, each timecode would just be a few bytes). Transactions would include the latest timecode as proof of when it was sent. First sent coins triumph in double spend attacks. Still vulnerable to 51% attacks, but again this is just one idea.
7145  Economy / Securities / Re: S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx on: January 05, 2013, 11:43:55 AM
LOL!!!

I just accidentally brought satoshidice shares on Bitfunder at 0.039 instead of 0.0039.

Wow, that's a stupid mistake but luckily I only lost less than a dollar since I brought 2 shares Tongue

Are you saying your buy order did not get the lowest offered shares available? Wtf. The operator keeps the difference?

I assume that it averages the two orders (liquidity provider and liquidity consumer), which is both standard and fair. Warning should have been given though, given the amount at stake.

No way. That is not how any financial market works. If you place a market buy order, or limit buy order greater than the lowest ask price, you will get filled at the ask. Unless the lowest ask was .039, you got filled much lower than that, at the lowest ask (currently 0.0048).
Yes, the lowest ask was at 0.039, haha. Was at 0.05 for a while.
7146  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Asset Exchange Marketplace - Official Launch on: January 05, 2013, 11:41:57 AM
Talked to TradeFortress for some details.
Did some testing, so far everything looks correct.

It appears that the price was correct.

Will be keeping an eye on things and will further testing to be sure though. Smiley


Can confirm that I've previously (intentionally) placed orders at prices above lowest ask and it correctly filled at price of lowest Ask.
Yes, I believe it had happened because even through the shares were selling for 0.003 or something, the lowest ask was 0.03, lol. Someone's pretty happy that they made a 10* return on SDICE!
7147  Economy / Lending / Re: [LOAN RECEIVED] i want to short 20btc until january on: January 05, 2013, 06:15:29 AM
loan has been repaid.
as cedivad wishes to not publish his btc address i will keep it confidental.

if any mod wants to check you'll have the permission to read my pm's to and from cedivad.

congrats.. now don't you think it was a stupid decision to short btc Tongue
7148  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: 1 or 0. The Binary Guessing Game. on: January 05, 2013, 05:40:41 AM

Wow, really? Some JS:

var gridSize = 1024;
var bits = 512;

var assignedBits = 0;
var grid = [];

while(assignedBits < bits){
newLoc = Math.floor(Math.random() * gridSize);
if(!grid[newLoc]){
grid[newLoc] = 1;
assignedBits++;
}
}

No need for floats or anything.

Wow, really? Some Python (that produces output):

import random;s=1024;b=512;g=[1]*b+[0]*(s-b);random.shuffle(g)
for i in range(0,s,16):print '{0:4d}:{1}'.format(i,g[i:i+16])


I was initially making a number of bits (yes, a single 256-bit number, known in JavaScript as NaN), where the probability of a bit being set was based on a ratio, however "true randomness" could let the OP cheat so I had hacked a check loop on.
Yes, but that is not going to work because the OP can just keep generating until he gets one that favors him, and only THEN reveal it.
7149  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Asset Exchange Marketplace - Official Launch on: January 05, 2013, 04:26:25 AM
OK, if I bid 1 BTC and lowest ask is for 0.01 BTC, it should have charged me 0.01 BTC instead of 1 BTC.

This is not how stock markets work. You go for the lowest price that is within bid. Only cost me less than a dollar due to a typo but this needs to be fixed
7150  Economy / Gambling / Re: XAVOA - Online Bitcoin Casino on: January 05, 2013, 01:11:43 AM
WOW!! Imagine someone playing marginale and putting it on tails...
7151  Economy / Securities / Re: S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx on: January 05, 2013, 12:50:08 AM
LOL!!!

I just accidentally brought satoshidice shares on Bitfunder at 0.039 instead of 0.0039.

Wow, that's a stupid mistake but luckily I only lost less than a dollar since I brought 2 shares Tongue
7152  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) Fork WITHOUT 80% Of Coins Given To FreiCoin Foundation on: January 04, 2013, 11:50:29 AM
@ hanzac

You should check our public forum at http://www.freicoin.org/ (linked from the main page)
Specifically this public thread http://www.freicoin.org/freicoin-foundation-development-thread-t81.html
We would update the main page when the granting process is more formally defined (I'm not saying again that you can contribute to define the process as fair as possible because obviously you're not interested).

@ TradeFortress

Whatever, then Luke-jr has never attacked a chain, he was only voting with his hashing...
Still, if you take over the network the supply graph will be completely flawed and we would have to start from scratch (also people that like demurrage but not the 80% fund if they like to have a fixed supply this century).
If effectively destroying a chain is not an attack, I don't know what is it.


Intent.

is occupying a park against city ordinances attacking the city?

the intent of this fork isn't to destroy or attack freicoin. As of now it just makes printing money for the Foundation optional, by accepting all otherwise valid blocks. I'm not sure if you understand this part Huh

Either way I'm going to go to bed now, will be back tomorrow.

I am also not against creating a currency blockchain by the way, maybe with some other differences decided on a voting based approach.
7153  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Asset Exchange Marketplace - Official Launch on: January 04, 2013, 11:42:01 AM
I can see the benefits if it was hooking up to Mt. Gox. or something. But they're pretty much owned by the same owner -.-

Still I deposited 3 btc.
7154  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) Fork WITHOUT 80% Of Coins Given To FreiCoin Foundation on: January 04, 2013, 11:28:55 AM
@hanzac

It's a one-time-only initial distribution of coins that (unfortunately for greedy miners) doesn't go to miners.
A tax needs a State or another coercion source to enforce it. This is a voluntary currency, if you don't like the initial distribution rules just don't use it. If you like demurrage but not this distribution rule, just fork it instead of planning a hard-fork attack.
If miners colluded through a hard fork to change initial bitcoin rules to their benefit (for example, issuing 100 M instead of 21) wouldn't that be considered an attack? The honest (in the same meaning it has in Satoshi's bitcoin whitepaper) nodes would just reject those block and the real bitcoin network would continue, just with less hashing power.


Tongue

According to your definitions, the "honest nodes" that are still running v 0.0.1 or v 0.1 are running the network. Honest nodes will reject things with new features like multisig, TXes without really high fees for that time, etc etc etc. Everyone who has updated, we are attacking the network!

It's entirely voluntary to use this fork. In fact, right now all you are doing is making the money printing for the foundation optional.

I also like how the website has no mention of this.. except maybe in tiny print or something.
7155  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) Fork WITHOUT 80% Of Coins Given To FreiCoin Foundation on: January 04, 2013, 11:01:34 AM
Yes, I meant that by honest nodes, nodes that follow the initial rules instead of your attack. Seriously, if you really like freicoin without the fund, just start a new chain, but do it right: rewrite the reward for miners curve. You just need to copy and paste from an earlier beta (I think beta3 will make it).

By giving more coins to miners you'd be putting more of them in the hands of miners, not necessarily users, that's our point.

If you know of a method for distributing the foundation's part of the supply to everyone in an "open, decentralized and fair manner" (we disagree mining is such a method), please let us know. We've been trying to think of something for years without success.

>initial rules

Alright. Freeze your code base please, rule changes are not allowed even if the majority agrees to it. Currently Bitcoin contributors are planning to change the coin dust constants and the transaction fees, but if they do they're not honest according to your definition!!

Please take a look at this thread and see that currently ALL criticism are from FRC Foundation members.

You can clearly see their goal is to protect themselves, not the users, the miners, the traders, the merchants, and the peasants collecting FRC from faculets (unless it benefits them). Just like how the Federal Reserve's goal is to protect the banking system, not to help the common public.

Attack: It would be an attack if I took over the network and double spent transactions. But this isn't an attack when you have ZERO criticism from those not part of the elite foundation/reserve club. Take a look Smiley It's rewriting the rules of FRC, just like how a new bitcoind version will rewrite the rule of BTC transaction fees. If 51% of the network agrees to it, goodbye to the 80% tax.

Mining isn't the best method for distributing coins. But it's the a method for rewarding people to keep the network secure. There's a difference. Welfare might be the best way to distribute money, but getting a job would be a method to be productive towards society.

Perhaps an donation to the foundation with each block mined. Miners won't get any coin more if they don't donate, but if they feel the Foundation is doing a good job, they can include printing FRC for the foundation. If the foundation abuses the coins they spend, then miners will choose to NOT print FRC. If they feel that everyone is given a fair say and the Foundation is HELPING Freicoin, include the donation.
7156  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: My Opinion on FRC on: January 04, 2013, 10:34:17 AM
DPony13, Thanks for sharing your opinion on Freicoin.

I think you may have a misconception.

You lose 5% per year. Not per transaction.

Thanks again!

At least if you didn't make any transactions your money wouldn't be taken from you. FRC is like a bank account where there is 0% interest and a 5% maintenance fee. So come back after long enough and there won't be anything left.
Federal Reserve Coin is a cryptocurrency set up by a Foundation that wants to be the Feds and take 80% of mined coins.. no, really, that's in the source code. 80% of mined coins goes to preset addresses so they can debate "proposals" in an "open and fair" (aka Are you a member of the Communist party?)... wonder how long it's going to be before "FRC is deflating! Let's spend our reserve for QE!".

There are forks that changes this - vote with your hashpower.
7157  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) Fork WITHOUT 80% Of Coins Given To FreiCoin Foundation on: January 04, 2013, 10:19:54 AM
THIS WILL NOT BE REJECTED BY THE NETWORK. Wanna know why? Because the blocks are still valid to the network with the 80% foundation backdoor issuing method.

Ok, then when you your fork starts rejecting them it will be a hard fork. At that point honest nodes will start ignoring your branch of the chain.

And again, even if all nodes accepted your hard fork, if you don't change the reward for miners formula it will take many many years to have a fixed supply. We wanted less years than bitcoin even before the 80% fund decision and your fork will take many more than bitcoin.

It's like when IXcoin creator thought he was issuing the 21 M twice as fast when in fact with his original code he was issuing 42 M in the same time. You just don't understand "your own" code.

By "honest" nodes, you mean nodes that pays the 80% tax? Hmm? By using this fork right now, you're voting with your hashrate.

Also, this fork will put MORE frc in the hands of miners and users, instead of more frc into the foundation. It's basically what happens if the Foundation Reserve distributed their self-printed to everyone in a open, decentralized and fair manner.

You can discuss about how mandating 80% of mined coins goes to you is honest, but at the end of the day, the network, the miners and the users makes the decision on which version they're going to use.
7158  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FRC exchange! on: January 04, 2013, 09:58:52 AM
Federal Reserve Coin

Great term! Just like how USD is U Suck D...  Cheesy Cheesy

If you're not aware of it, the Foundation gets 80% of coins generated.
7159  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) Fork WITHOUT 80% Of Coins Given To FreiCoin Foundation on: January 04, 2013, 09:40:08 AM
if your fork really works, probably you will kill Freicoin. But in the end, the miners will decide that Grin
This won't kill Freicoin. It'll kill the foundation from controlling 80% of it Smiley

Mine Freicoin? Instead of 80% of it going to the foundation, make 80% of it go to you just like how it's supposed to be. Download and make this fork the exact way you did it previously Smiley
7160  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: FreiCoin (FRC) Fork WITHOUT 80% Of Coins Given To FreiCoin Foundation on: January 04, 2013, 09:29:47 AM
Oh I see. You're looking to get over 51% of the FRC hashing power running this fork. Like a hostile takeover.

This needs to be a new chain not a takeover. Maaku I don't suppose you'd be interested in running a demurrage coin without the 80% non-miner distribution.

Considering how ~80% of the current Freicoins in existence are owned by Foundation or Foundation members, that might be a good idea.
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