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681  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 17, 2014, 10:12:28 AM
It is interesting to observe the extremely diverse range of coexisting opinions on the price here. One group of posters will be absolutely confident that we are inevitably seeing $5000 by the summer, and the next group of posters will have lost all faith and not believe that it will even recover from this crash and hold value at all.

And you're part of which group? Wink
Luckily, there is a middle ground.
682  Economy / Speculation / Re: thinking about buying 5k in bitcoin on: May 06, 2014, 07:31:27 PM
Been lurking on these forums for a while, but this is my first post. I currently own 1 bitcoin that I bought around 420 a while back. I have some "extra" money set aside and thinking about buying 5k in bitcoin. I have been closely following the last couple of weeks and reading all that I could. I wanted to buy when it was down to 350 but I didn't have all by Coinbase stuff verified.

I have looked at a lot of the graphs posted (including the paint one... nice) and was just wondering if we can get some good conversation on when would be the right price to buy. I believe it is going to go back up and even if it goes up 100$ I figure with 10 coins that would be a nice little investment. Even better if some of the higher speculations come through

Perhaps buy half now, do the $250/week thing for the rest?
683  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 06, 2014, 07:11:59 PM


thought it was funny so i share
Grin, made me lol.
684  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin can never be 1000+ dollars again because of all the new coins on: May 04, 2014, 02:27:48 PM
The altcoin market has been pretty consistent for years in being <10% the "market-cap" of bitcoin. Its magnitude rises and falls with bitcoin, but its relationship with bitcoin rarely changes. Generally speaking, introduction of new alts just dilutes the market for incumbent *alts*.

So, theory rejected.

Also, OP scientific method fail.

Do you happen to have collected any data for this (or is it just from memory)?
I know you can look at websites like coinmarketcap.com these days, but I would like to have the bitcoin/(all altcoins) ratio over time.


By the way, is it not possible that there is a psychological factor, which discourages people who might be interested in buying bitcoin  because of the existence of altcoins (they don't buy because they fear future purchasing power dilution by altcoins).  I am not arguing that this is a correct conclusion, just that this might be a mindset for a significant amount of people, thereby influencing the price.
685  Economy / Speculation / Re: I give up on: May 03, 2014, 09:03:51 AM
Lol, nice one
686  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 03, 2014, 08:57:54 AM
I think that people should concentrate less on how to attract the masses and more about how to handle the masses when the flood gates open.
I think people are a little caught up in what is possible and perhaps ignoring what is practical.
the practical side of bitcoin is in need of much work, I'm afraid.
Hear, hear !
How bout providing more utility instead of trying to lure in more speculators.
687  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 01, 2014, 02:20:18 PM
This picture needs a cat.
688  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 01, 2014, 01:21:29 PM
Meh.



Cheers.
I could totally go for $280 bitcoins  Smiley.
689  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 01, 2014, 01:02:39 PM
Andreas Antonopoulos on Singularity 1 on 1: "Bitcoin is not currency, it's the internet of money!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW_wYvZ1eZg

Antonoplis is great, but he overlooked a few issues on why deflation would not be a problem, namely that Bitcoin is not and likely never will be legal tender. The supply of bitcoin is finite but the supply of cryptocurrency is not. If there is not enough liquid BTC, then BTC derivatives or something like litecoin can fill the gap.

Maybe I am missing something, but why would there be 'not enough liquid BTC'?  If there is too little value available, BTC prices will rise and compensate for the lack in liquidity, no?   Why would anyone buy other stuff than the thing that keeps rising in value?

because they can.... human nature.
My question is : why would they?  You buy litecoin as a speculative play now.  In my mind, people want a "cheap" alternative, so there is a demand for it.  The harder bitcoin rises, the more it is perceived as "expensive" and people look for alternatives.  But what about in a more end-game environment, where bitcoin is more stable, and rises lets say 5% a year (pulling this number out of my ass), based on population growth and productivity gains.  I don't think people would perceive it as 'too expensive', because the appreciation isn't as sudden.  Where is the incentive for an alternative (genuine question)?

PS: of course you could say that litecoin or whatever altcoin have merits of their own which make them better than bitcoin, but then I would expect one of them to take over the field. I am talking about buying alternatives to the dominant crypto because it is too deflationary.
690  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 01, 2014, 12:44:59 PM
Andreas Antonopoulos on Singularity 1 on 1: "Bitcoin is not currency, it's the internet of money!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW_wYvZ1eZg

Antonoplis is great, but he overlooked a few issues on why deflation would not be a problem, namely that Bitcoin is not and likely never will be legal tender. The supply of bitcoin is finite but the supply of cryptocurrency is not. If there is not enough liquid BTC, then BTC derivatives or something like litecoin can fill the gap.

Maybe I am missing something, but why would there be 'not enough liquid BTC'?  If there is too little value available, BTC prices will rise and compensate for the lack in liquidity, no?   Why would anyone buy other stuff than the thing that keeps rising in value?
691  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 03:51:42 PM
In general, I agree with you.  I've noticed (I think) some who have long holdings but don't try to influence the mood of this thread.

The complex personalities here are the most interesting to me.  I believe that there are several who practice second level thinking when it comes to making a post here.  I also think that there are some who are capable of third level thinking.
Now you intrigued me  Wink.  What do you call second level thinking?

...

Levels of thinking:

1.   The most common and least complicated; say, you are long and want the price to go up.  You post pictures of trains and rockets and post rebuttals to those opposed to that view.  Most of the participants here fall into this category.

2.   Less common and more difficult to pull off.  Say you are short but pretend to be long.  You enter conversations with those who are long, arguing unconvincingly that the price must rise, thereby giving the impression (to level one thinkers) that the price may, indeed, be ready to decline.

3.   Uncommon and requires much more effort and practice; a combination of 1 & 2 with a large dose of logic, numbers, and charts that back up your supposed position.  So, you are long but you want to influence the level 2 people to believe you are short.  Most of the time you are trying to get the level 2’s angry enough that they will do the opposite of what they believe you want, namely talk up the price so you profit.

4.   There are, supposedly, more levels but they come with increasing complexity.  You run the risk of misjudging and damaging your intent.
  
See also:  Roshambo (Rock, Paper, Scissors) for a game simple enough to be played by pre-school children, but is played by high-rolling gamblers.

For an example, I believe, of level 2 practice, see most of the posts by Proudhon.

Do you think the ramblings on this thread have much of an impact on the price?  
I don't know honestly, I just assume the comments don't matter for convenience's sake.  Well, at least in the short term.  The fact that ideas are being discussed is a good thing, and might have an effect long-term (depending on how much "capital" is reading this thread).
692  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 26, 2014, 02:52:25 PM
If you are unsure whether Bitcoin receives this "financing round" or not, just take confidence in the fact that everyone in the world can participate, there are no minimums, no maximums, no lock-in periods, and the "company" has no burn rate and its economy becomes better even while waiting for the capital injection.
Isn't there is some sort of 'burn rate' as capital get's reallocated to miners and mining companies?
I wouldn't call it a "burn rate", it's not like bitcoin is going to go bankrupt at any time.
693  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 26, 2014, 11:30:32 AM
In general, I agree with you.  I've noticed (I think) some who have long holdings but don't try to influence the mood of this thread.

The complex personalities here are the most interesting to me.  I believe that there are several who practice second level thinking when it comes to making a post here.  I also think that there are some who are capable of third level thinking.
Now you intrigued me  Wink.  What do you call second level thinking?

And if you are wondering about my level  Grin:
694  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 25, 2014, 04:24:00 PM

Hello guys,

I'm french, ( french forum talk about everything except coins...)

-I placed an order at 448 this morning on Kraken, and I realised that it passed while I was eating at restaurant...I would have canceled it when I see how it's going down, but it's done, my first BTC !



So what would you do if you had about 950 dollars to buy BTC? Buy now ? Wait ?
1) Realize that this is your choice in the end.  If it doesn't go the way you wanted it, you only have yourself to blame.
2) How optimistic/sure are you that bitcoin will rise in the long run, and by how much?  If you think it is going to the moon, and you have the guts to sit out some bad weather, don't stay all fiat trying to catch the ultimate low.
3) You can do dollar cost averaging if you are not sure when to buy.  (Buy $100 worth at the start of every month or so).
695  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 25, 2014, 04:12:58 PM
7000 USD? Are you insane? Don't see a bubble here? What's the point owning "play money" worth 1M USD.
Will you oder a high voltage dildo from Thailand by using the coin or wait till it reches 10M USD?

Hellllooooo?
play money  Roll Eyes  Normalcy bias still going strong  I see...
696  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 25, 2014, 03:02:23 PM

Looks legit.
697  Economy / Speculation / Re: RE : Wall Observer on: April 18, 2014, 04:16:26 AM
I know, it's just so simple & effective to forget about it & hodl for years.

 ..

 ..But, I don't have years. I already spent 9 years (I'm still in 20's so it's mostly fine) losing money to a not-so-expensive-but-still 'variable-rate' learn-the-hard-way tuition fee. I need to make each slice of $$ within days, maybe weeks at most, not months nor years. And I'm not the only one. It's just difficult, not impossible. Some are making it.

 And +, there's always that half of my capital that's sitting in low-priced alts for long-term. That's a sufficient hedge against any trading loss.

People are going to speak in certainties to you here. Remember this: nothing is certain. If you dump in now, you could wind up wealthy in a few years, or you could wind up deeply in the hole never to return if this whole thing turns out to be one huge bubble in the process of popping. If you disappear for a few years and come back, you could find that you were wealthy for a while, but then bitcoin got destroyed. Then again, you could find bitcoin at $2500 and be up a nice chunk. Who knows? The point is, again, nothing is certain. Take any advice that guarantees something, such as "bitcoin to single digits," or "bitcoin to $100,000 within 2 years," with a grain of salt and a lot of skepticism.

Others will talk up their position, screaming bitcoin is dead or bitcoin to da moon based on their position.

I've got to tell you, though. You seem desperate. If you're desperately hoping for a ton of money to fall in your lap in a couple of weeks, that leaves you vulnerable to panic buying when you see it going up. You also seem kind of poor, which means if you over-invest, you will be very vulnerable to panic selling. All of this equates to a personality that is very likely to buy high and sell low. Now is not the time to be investing in bitcoin to get rich quick, that time was at $5. People investing now will need to work to make money, although there's a lot of fish in this pond relative to other markets, so if you get skilled, you can presumably make a killing. I can tell from your posts that you are very unlikely to be skilled, so be careful.

I've found the best time to buy is when everyone else is crying that the price is never going to recover, and every rise is met with cynicism and "bull trap!" The best time to sell is when every drop is met with "bear trap!" and equal amounts of cynicism in the other direction. The first means everyone is out and hoping the price will drop, the second means everyone is in and hoping the price will rise. When there's a mix, that's too risky for me. I don't like making quick trades, I just go for the big ones. I start my buying when the price is getting obliterated, and sell on the way up. The speed at which I sell depends on whether I think we're in a downtrend or uptrend. Uptrends I tend to let it go more, downtrends I try to get out quickly and be more conservative.

And don't ever short bitcoin, and never use leverage. You don't sound like you can afford to do either. There are even some people who are seemingly bears all the time who think shorting is dumb, probably from getting banged hard for doing so at some point.

Learn TA. There are people who hate on it, but I disagree. Spend your time learning how to read charts, and always take your own path. Do not buy or sell simply because someone that seems respectable tells you to. You're probably not skilled enough to be a good judge of who to trust. You can use the posts of others as confirmation of something you're already feeling strongly about, but don't take anybody's word for it without putting in the time educating yourself before you take a position.

If you want to day trade, you've got to educate yourself, and learn to control your emotions. If you don't do that before you start getting into the thick of it, you will almost certainly get destroyed if you don't luck out. Don't rely on luck, luck is for lottery players. Put in the work, and you might just be able to reap the rewards.


Killer post.

Should be made a sticky in the Newbies section.
Agreed, it's a beauty!
Might reduce bitcoin volatility by itself if stickied in newb section  Grin .
698  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 14, 2014, 09:14:09 PM
BTC gets it's price because it is traceable to USD and to the other fiat currencies that are also dependant on USD. Go pick up a book and read on what does it mean that USD is the most dominant world reserve currency and what effect does it give to other fiat currencies.
Are my turds worth 450$ a piece too?  I am sure I can exchange them for USD too, so that's where they get their value, right?


If someone would be foolish enough to buy your turds for 450 USD, then USD would be exactly the thing that gives your turds value. Just like with BTC.
Speechless...

Did you read those economics books, or did somebody hit you on the head with them?
699  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 14, 2014, 09:07:07 PM
BTC gets it's price because it is traceable to USD and to the other fiat currencies that are also dependant on USD. Go pick up a book and read on what does it mean that USD is the most dominant world reserve currency and what effect does it give to other fiat currencies.
Are my turds worth 450$ a piece too?  I am sure I can exchange them for USD too, so that's where they get their value, right?
700  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 14, 2014, 08:59:17 PM
And about bets, you know Pascal's Bet for sure.  What is the probability that handling bitcoin will get one's soul sent to Hell for eternity?  Since that is either true or false, and we have no information, we must assume it is 50%....  Cheesy

I know you are not being serious, and saying we have no information is false, but just for the hell of it:
Even if we are completely ignorant of everything except for the fact that one can handle bitcoin, I think 6.25 % is a better estimation, given that your premise consists of multiple assumptions:
I divided them into 4 [1. there is a hell; 2. one has a soul; 3. given that there is a soul and a hell, souls can go to hell for eternity; 4. given 1.2. &3., handling bitcoin will get one's soul to hell for eternity] but probably by defining the question better, more assumptions can be identified.
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