Have a look at the volume on Havelock. With about 400 bitcoin per day it would allow us a lot of opportunity to move shares/divest/etc... Also have a look at the yield on ASICMINER, it's not very good at all. of course this will go up once Gen 3 goes online but my point is this: People are desperate to get a decent return. If that is the case then lets have a little thought experiment. If Ken gets 1% of the network, and we take 50% for reinvestment and ignore all hardware sales, a share at 0.0025 will be at 30% yield per year. Think about that. A mining company on a high volume exchange that should at least be able to offer between 5% and 50% yield on a share price of 0.0025. I can't see that same money flowing to the unknown exchange CryptoTrade and if Ken gets the 5,000 boards online, we want to be able to trade at that point. Fully working CC will be months AFTER we get those boards online and we'll miss that opportunity.  |
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These created crises are really getting tiresome.
The tiresome thing is that Ken has said share verification and trading is around the corner for six months now. That is tiresome. |
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The share situation is now becoming the central focus of the shareholders. The situation is simple: Ken is not transparent running the company, we have no idea about our own ASIC, what happened to eASIC and so on... However, this would not be such a terrible thing if we're trading. Because then we all have a choice to trust in Ken without any information or leave. But, because Ken continues to not release our shares onto Havelock this situation is going to start escalating in a bad way fast. KenI would argue that you might be able to get away with either of the two following configurations: - Trading allowed but company transparency minimal.
- Trading disallowed but you're 100% upfront about everything ever and we are told the entire story and have a say in our future.
However the current situation is neither and it's the worst of both worlds: - Trading disallowed and no transparency.
You really need to pivot one way or the other, but keeping us in the dark and keeping the trade block on is not acceptable. |
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I believe one day we will have so many wallet devices to choose  and prices will be much better. I think in 10 years you will be able to buy it in a supermarket  I am pretty sure of it. If Bitcoin does remain the king for 10 years and you still hold some, you'll be able to buy the supermarket. |
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By the same logic, you shouldn't download any pre-compiled wallet software, you should always compile it from source code. And only after having thoroughly read and understood it. Which, of course, is not possible if you are not a programmer yourself, and even then can get quite difficult.
But if you just download a wallet software and run it, how can you know there is not a backdoor inside and/or it doesn't send your private keys to the someone else?
Please research into http://gitian.org/I believe the Bitcoin reference client is created via this process and it allows the user to know for sure that their binary is in fact compiled from the source on Github. We are learning about more secure ways of distributing software from source. |
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Heya,
I can't figure out how to get this board to talk to the computer. When I plug it in I get a Easy CD emulator thing. Running CG miner does not see the device.
The 'official' thread leaves a big hole in the instructions where there should be a command to run CG miner. There's a reference to using WinUSB in some way but no instructions on how to do that.
Does anyone have a Prospector Fat Has running and if so what command did you use with CG miner to start mining and how did you get the computer to see the mining board?
If someone can help this customer out. Don't the boards work with default cgminer config? |
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"where they attempt to break the code protecting the Bitcoin database"
lol - what a dumbass. There is no code protecting any database. There is no database.
The blockchain is in fact a database. It's a transaction database, and one of the most secure and distributed databases that has ever existed. It's one of the true marvels Satoshi brought into this world. I guess the database is protected by the miners and the nodes. You could argue that the Elliptic curve cryptography protects the database for if that crypto was undone many addresses (but not all) would be open to theft. Of course the miners are not attempting to break Elliptic curve cryptography. |
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Well most journalists are not experts in most things especially not Bitcoin so that's why they're often wrong after only quickly checking their "facts" over on wikipedia, but there are decent articles from journalists too, so to tar them all as one is quite unfair.
I only suggested outing the ones that are almost making things up. I am not sure where they get their fantasy from it certainly isn't Wikipedia. I don't recall any bitcoin material about cracking codes and increasing complexity of 'encryption'. They're getting it from somewhere because I often hear the "mining is the process that creates Bitcoin by solving a complex mathematical equations" line in the media. That isn't so bad though, as mining is a complex logical/mathematical operation. (Try doing a hash by hand) so I would be ok with that line. But the breaking encryption code stuff really is bizarre. Of course the solution to a solved block is to solve trillions of the "mathematical operation" per second to beat the next fastest guy. I can really see where some people simplify the process. However I still can't seem to think about where the breaking and complex encryption comes from. Also this journalist is crazy, like where on earth does the network make it 10% hard every retarget? Like I think it's been 10% on only a handful of occasions in the past four years. |
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Well most journalists are not experts in most things especially not Bitcoin so that's why they're often wrong after only quickly checking their "facts" over on wikipedia, but there are decent articles from journalists too, so to tar them all as one is quite unfair.
I only suggested outing the ones that are almost making things up. I am not sure where they get their fantasy from it certainly isn't Wikipedia. I don't recall any bitcoin material about cracking codes and increasing complexity of 'encryption'. |
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With Hashfast's large clients they are expected to deliver tens of thousands of chips. Does anyone have suspicion to believe Hashfast cannot do this?
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Well to quell any fears, I am of the belief that if we move over to Havelock Ken must also move all the CryptoTrade users too. It would be unfair to them leaving their shares in such an illiquid environment.
Remember when it comes to investing, one of the most important issues is liquidity of the market. Keep in mind that two thirds of the entire set of bitcoin investors have an account on Havelock and there are tens of thousands of bitcoin on that platform.
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I'm doing an assignment so I haven't got time to pick this one apart, if any of you have a free 20 minutes feel free to quote the below (the entire shoddy article) and correct mistakes (of which there are a lot) Bitcoin warning signs for new investors are increasing rapidly as negative reports tarnish the once bright image of the world’s leading digital currency. Before the spectacular collapse of the Mt. Gox Bitcoin Exchange on February 7, 2014, after an estimated 745,000 Bitcoin worth approximately $9.5 billion went missing, the only people who were aware of Bitcoin’s promise of a fast track to easy wealth were computer geeks and currency traders. Stories about Bitcoin billionaires surfaced and disappeared again as the news media, obsessed with Obamacare, failed to pick up on them.
After Mt. Gox collapsed, Bitcoin suddenly became front page news all over the world, and millions of would-be Bitcoin miners have been looking for a way into the business ever since, despite recent Bitcoin warning signs, including an IRS decision to tax Bitcoin as real property, ending a presumed tax exemption for Bitcoin currency speculators. Russia, China, Australia, New Zealand and Iceland have either banned or restricted the use of Bitcoin within their jurisdictions. Iceland released its own auroracoin digital currency on March 25, issuing 31.8 coins (equal to $400 US) of the currency to each citizen in an attempt to revive the country’s moribund economy. Since then, auroracoin’s value has dropped from $12.58 per coin to $1.16.
The most telling blow to strike the embattled digital currency movement has been the precipitous collapse of Bitcoin values, which have fallen from a record high of US $1124.74 on November 29, 2013 to $423. Nevertheless, more and more people are looking at Bitcoin mining as a means to fast, easy money. Those numbers are reflected in the shrinking earnings in the Bitcoin mining industry. Last week, miners’ weekly earnings were down by 40.9 percent to $14.9 million compared to weekly earnings of $25.2 million in December, before the bad news began to accumulate.
bitcoin warning signs
Not so fast, warns Vancouver Island’s Jonathan Kervin, owner of Kervin Marketing, a confessed computer geek who has been studying the Bitcoin mining process for the past six months. Kervin, who has a small Bitcoin mining “guild” of his own, believes that newcomers can still make money “mining” digital currencies but only with the right equipment and under the right circumstances.
Kervin first heard about Bitcoin mining from fellow computer geeks. Over the past six months, his research has shown it is quite possible to make money mining digital currencies, but would-be Bitcoin miners have to do the homework required to understand the industry.
For the uninitiated, Bitcoin “mining” is the process that creates Bitcoin by solving a complex mathematical equation through the use of specialized computers. Bitcoin miners work together on a global peer-to-peer network, logging onto a central website, where they attempt to break the code protecting the Bitcoin database. The first Bitcoin miner to solve the current equation brings home the bacon.
Every time the code is broken, the Bitcoin system awards the Bitcoin miner that breaks the encryption code with a number of Bitcoin determined by the complexity of the code that was broken…and the system then adds more lines of code, making it more difficult to solve. In addition, the open source software that runs the Bitcoin system automatically upgrades the complexity of the encryption by another 10 percent every 10 days adding more lines of code to the equation that Bitcoin miners have to solve in order to earn more Bitcoin.
Bitcoin warning signs for new investors
Bitcoin mining machines are graded according to their Gigahash characteristics. One Gigahash is approximately equal to one billion computations per second. Eight months ago, a Butterfly 600 Gigahash Bitcoin mining card was priced at $2,196, or $3.66 per Gigahash, making it 151 times more powerful than typical PCs, which clock in at speeds up to 3.96 GHz. Today, a current AMT 1.2 terahash machine sells for $5,599 or $4.67 per Gigahash.
One of the most powerful systems is the relatively affordable $10,0000 3.0 Terahash (equal to three trillion instructions per second) unit from KNC. At the current hashing rate, this unit will break even in 102 days…but the complexity of the algorithm that must be solved will have doubled over those 100 days, so that the AMT machine’s operating efficiency will have been cut in half by then. Over the next 100 days, the complexity of the Bitcoin algorithm will automatically increase by another 10 percent every ten days so that, after 200 days, the machine will be running at 25 percent of its original efficiency, putting it out of the money as newer, faster machines flood the market.
With efficiency decreasing by 10 percent every ten days, the user may earn another $5000 before the machine is outclassed. A 50 percent net profit margin over 200 days is a reasonable return on investment, but the Bitcoin miner who owns that machine is going to be effectively out of the business unless the miner re-invests the profits earned after breaking even on the next machine.
The problem Kervin himself encountered while trying to get into the business is that many Bitcoin mining machine makers are six to 12 months behind their delivery date which means that, by the time those prepaid machines are delivered, they are already obsolete, too slow to earn any Bitcoin.
While some companies, such as Butterfly, are notorious for never hitting their delivery dates, others, likeBitman, are right on the money, delivering their machines often with 48 hours of confirmation. It is, however, difficult to recommend one company over another because things change so rapidly in this business.
Anyone thinking about getting into Bitcoin mining today who is not put off by the Bitcoin warning signs for new investors, should consider the risks carefully. Kervin recommends joining a Bitcoin mining guild, where members share their knowledge and processing power to generate better results. Be especially careful about purchasing used machines, because a six-month old machine is no longer competitive in the Bitcoin mining business. Not knowing this, newcomers often buy used machines to lower entry-level costs.
Used, older Bitcoin machines may be competitive, however, for mining some other digital currencies, and are being used for that purpose. Recently, an increasing number of Bitcoin miners have shifted their attention to other digital currencies like Litecoin. A $3,500 Litecoin GPU system can generate $25 worth of coins per day, at a cost of $3 for electricity. Let the buyer beware, however, because the break-even on Litecoin is 159 day, one-third more than Bitcoin’s break-even point. The math indicates that, in this scenario, a Litecoin miner would be 450 days from earning enough money to replace the first machine with the updated model required go remain competitive.
Look for hardware suppliers with guaranteed delivery policies. Find the ones that offer upgraded chips to offset delivery delays. Consider manufacturers who only accept payment in Bitcoin, which will automatically adjust the price of the machine to the current value of the coins….and do not ignore the Bitcoin warning signs for new investors. Remember your caveat emptors!
By Alan M. Milner |
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Shares:
Working on getting the verification site up this week.
so,ken,where are we,one week is almost there~~just let us trade,it is not that hard~~~you can,t avoid without reasonabal ground~~
Ken can avoid it, I have been saying the exact thing you just said since December. |
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The best thing to do is create a website that outs bad Bitcoin journalists as a name and shame.
Or perhaps that is going to far.
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They don't understand this stuff... so they just make up a bunch of crap. For the uninitiated, Bitcoin “mining” is the process that creates Bitcoin by solving a complex mathematical equation through the use of specialized computers. Bitcoin miners work together on a global peer-to-peer network, logging onto a central website, where they attempt to break the code protecting the Bitcoin database. The first Bitcoin miner to solve the current equation brings home the bacon.
Every time the code is broken, the Bitcoin system awards the Bitcoin miner that breaks the encryption code with a number of Bitcoin determined by the complexity of the code that was broken…and the system then adds more lines of code, making it more difficult to solve. In addition, the open source software that runs the Bitcoin system automatically upgrades the complexity of the encryption by another 10 percent every 10 days adding more lines of code to the equation that Bitcoin miners have to solve in order to earn more Bitcoin.
Alan Milner is a bozo. http://guardianlv.com/2014/04/bitcoin-warning-signs-for-new-investors/ Could somebody please contact this guy and tell him he is not even close? "solving a complex mathematical equation" you don't 'solve' any equation and it is not complex. "logging onto a central website" They don't 'log on', and there is no central website. "where they attempt to break the code protecting the Bitcoin database" lol - what a dumbass. There is no code protecting any database. There is no database. "adding more lines of code to the equation that Bitcoin miners have to solve" Does he just make this shit up? Lines of code are not added to any equation. Why, oh why, are these idiots permitted to use the keyboard? Haven't they any editorial oversight? Pure garbage. Journalism school is a raging joke. These people are either completely stupid or spreading misinformation on purpose. I'm not particularly bright or intelligent but I got a general gist of Bitcoin mining that is about 95% accurate within 10 minutes of reading about it. That includes learning what the hell hashcash was and such. |
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Arguing about which exchange is kind of pointless if ken just keeps putting off working on it.
If every shareholder just keeps posting about Havelock eventually he might get the hint. |
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Either way it is just a stop-gap solution.
It certainly is a stop-gap. But that stop-gap could last half a year or more. Ken's waiting on the decentralized option reminds me of people waiting for decentralised filesharing. People had to wait about 3 years for Bittorrent. Secure, tested decentralisation is hard and special. Even if CC was working tomorrow I would want to see some others on the system for several months before we jumped on board. The sad fact is the most likely outcome of the first decentralized asset trading system will be utter failure where everyone gets all their dividends and shares stolen. Satoshi was very special and very unique to release a system that worked very well. Most of the time grand ideas fall flat on their face. |
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but obviously it would be best with an accepted and popular decentralized solution in the long-term.
This is true, and I am sure the many securities on Havelock would love to be on a decentralized system in the mean time but they are not. I agree with you that Havelock is the best choice. Here are some facts: - Decentralization is very hard. A lot of you are becoming complacent thinking that we can easily and without too much effort securely decentralise things like asset trading. Satoshi spent several years working on Bitcoin and there are only a handful of people on Earth that have created fully decentralised systems. Satoshi and Bram are the first two that come to mind. This decentralized asset trading system isn't going to be a walk in the park and I would want the system to be live for many months before moving over millions of dollars worth of assets. - Most people agree with my point above simply due to the fact that most assets are listed on Havelock and not on CC or Counterparty. Once they are ready I am sure they will move. In this regard (where to list our shares lets FOLLOW the herd for once). - If Ken wants to wait until the utopian ideal of decentralized asset trading systems are live, we might have to wait months. If we want to see how they go for a while to see what vulnerabilities are discovered because we don't want to lose all of our shares we could easily be waiting until early 2015. - The shareholders including myself are tired of the endless excuses. There exists a high volume exchange ready to take us on and is arguably more secure and better run than CryptoTrade. Let's get listed on Havelock please. - Regarding volume, many of us want to sell our shares and I know about a million shares want to get out for at least 2,500 bitcoin. I am 100% certain CrytoTrade will never see anywhere near that much volume. Lack of volume will create a share price of 0.000001 easily once 10 million shares are listed and about 10 bitcoin worth of buyers. It will be a blood bath on Havelock but a blackhole on CryptoTade. - No one that wants to preserve our share value wants to be on CryptoTrade. I can only assume the CryptoTrade fans are either 1)shills 2)bought UKYO shares and are acting in self interest 3)are trolls. |
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How is that being moronic?
Moronic because you want Ken to waste time and energy putting shares up on 2 exchanges to facilitate day traders and arbitragers. Fell free to list your own shares on a 2nd exchange with a pass-through. Ken should concentrate on building value which includes sales and mining. If these 2 activities succeed, share price will go up. I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that I want arbitrage? The last thing I will ever do is arbitrage between a mega low volume exchange and Havelock. No no it's not wasted time and energy is it you fool? I already have shown that the amount of energy that already has gone into setting up CryptoTrade is piss all. He issued <300,000 and that is all. Ken hasn't even started the hard work yet so lets get us on Havelock before he invests time into the lowest volume bitcoin exchange. Perhaps you can beg Ken to move your worthless CryptoTrade shares over to Havelock? Ken should concentrate on miners, our ASIC, sales, website and shares. Now Ken is waiting on 5,000 boards this is the best time to focus on shares. |
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... bagholder ...
I see you have contempt for AMC shareholders. Why would anybody respect your wishes. ... ROI ...
Moron. Actually it's the majority wishes to be on Havelock right now, you're one of the few standing in the way. Yes ROI, Ken has personal shares he bought at a high price (similar to myself) and if I and Ken are to get even a bitcoin 1:1 ROI on those shares only Havelock is the answer. How is that being moronic? |
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