[*] 8BIT [Dark Masternodes][Anon][Roadmap Stage 4]

[niki25]

Im not sure, thats just what they told me. Seems like they aren't really planning on doing anything. Sucks.

Many people reported problems with withdrawals. Deposits were working fine. I am afraid that they screwed something and lost coins. In such case its always good to say it's coin issue.
DOZENS of wallets online, FOUR exchanges. ONE wallet has a problem. CRYPTSY wallet. Amazing.

I can personally contact them, and ask about the issue. Complaining and bashing them in support tickets doesn't do anything. Hold tight.

Will be fine if you manage to get it solved. From other similar problems i know that cryptsy is slower than a turtle and lazier than a sloth.
But i have the feeling they will solve it. 

[8-bit-Party]

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STEP 4
ADJUST COIN ECONOMY


level 1
brainstorm and collecting options for incoming vote

BACKGROUND: Discussion in last weeks (too many weeks actually) about new economy model brought no (even close to) final decision. Therefore I created following solution:

• Today at 14:00 (2 PM) UTC I will open call for proposals thread. That thread will collect our proposals of items to be put into a poll. Please register your proposal in following scheme:
  

Code:

MN COST: N.M
BLOCK VALUE: N.M
MN REWARD: N.M

for e.g. proposal to keep current model will be (missing decimal part will be considered as 0):

Code:

MN COST: 112.0
BLOCK VALUE: 1.2
MN REWARD: 0.88

• Note that it is not voting yet, but I would love too see everyone participate to make sure we all understand we can't change that values often. Also, if someone else posted proposal equal or very similiar to yours, absolutely post your copy too. This is how statistics work and it's required to get most wanted options.
  
• Please keep that thread free of any other discussion. Discussion, arguing, convincing etc. should take place in here in main thread - here and only here. Place your proposal only once. If you change your mind, change your post or just post again - YOUR LAST POST MATTERS, previous one will be ignored.
  
• Trolling, FUD - disallowed. Serious proposals only. Suggestion of mn reward equal to 999999 8BIT will be rejected.
  
• On Saturday, at 18:00 (6 PM) UTC I will close that thread and start to extract values from set of our proposals. From all proposals, for each item I will pick 3 most popular values (I will probably use median to choose them). That's how we will get voting input. If there's someone who wish to do it instead of me - I will be happy to hear about it.
  
• I am open to any sugestions, changes etc. Just give a serious reason and ask other to confirm they agree.
• Once we read instructions, there we go - official Call for proposals Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1104296
  

Spread the word about this voting. Use hashtag #8bitvoting. Let them hear about us!

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[Dimitry]

i really wonder what the math is behind the new payouts! because its hilarious I almost cry from pain

[8-bit-Party]

What do you mean?

[Dimitry]

if i scoll in the voting this comes up

BLOCK VALUE: 1.00
MN REWARD: 0.80

most  people here talk about inflation how is this gonna stop that? makes me laugh

also this is minor change, so much talk makes me laugh.

only ones that get hurt are the ones staking..

from my point everything is good as it is anyway..  

edit: i agree 888 for price!

[8-bit-Party]

We have already agreed that most important thing is making masternode price much higher. Big reduction of masternode rewards would reduce inflation but also discourage new investors to buy masternode since they will be much less profitable.

Today I will release 8BIT Masternode Profitability Calculator, so it's obvious we wanna promote MNs as profitable, long-termin investment.

I guess we all here are pretty sure that price will be MUCH higher but at this moment it's extremely low so we have to work with current rates not future ones. Finally, when price will sky rocket also number of MNs will sky rocket so noone will take unearned advantage from "high" masternode reward. It was very high when there were 30 masternodes (0.03 8BIT per node), high when there were 60 masternodes (0.015 8BIT per node), now it's pretty balanced with 270 masternodes online (0.003 8BIT per node). And it will be extremely low 900 masternodes online (0.0009 8BIT per node), but 8BIT/BTC will compensate everything. And 2000 masternodes (0.0004 per node),  and so on. We always have to consider number of nodes and reward per node, not total reward which does not say much as it does not go to one whale.

For those who are saying now, man 2000 masternodes, are you crazy? Look how many MNs DASH has. DASH is mature, well established coin? Yes, but look how expensive MN is and realize they have PoW inflation! DASH is DASH, you are not convinced? Look at HORIZON, their coin supply and number of hallmark nodes. Thousands.

My plans for this coin require as many MNs as possible, but they have to be reliable so they can't be cheap to make sure their operators will care if they are online or not.

Voting soon. Future is bright anyhow!

[8-bit-Party]

STEP 2

level 3
LEVEL COMPLETE


RESTORE OR CREATE MISSING INFRASTRUCTURE

We have to figure out and show current wealth distribution. Fair distribution has to be proven.

• Rich List - how rich are owners of TOP 100 (do we need more? tell me) addresses?
  http://explorer.8-bit.party/richlist
  
• Distribution - how total coin supply looks compared to top10, top20... top 100 addresses, funds frozen for masternodes, Bittrex exchange orderbook and top50 accounts?
  http://www2.8-bit.party/#distribution
• Masternode Profitability Calculator - how much masternode operators earn, is it profitable to fund one, what is ROI here?
  http://www2.8-bit.party/#profitability_calculator

DEADLINE FOR ALL TASKS: 2015-07-03 UTC
MET

[Dimitry]

little typo with the adres i think www2? without 2 it works for me

[skidog]

Ok if we raise the price of masternodes to 888 would that reduce payout..I think thats a NO. It would only make it so we dont need so many masternodes. How can we drop payouts  50% on pos and masternodes while raising the price of masternodes? The masternodes would be profitable because there would be fewer. I think this would  hurt pos payouts the most. And im ok with that....Any thoughts....

[Orestes]

Ok if we raise the price of masternodes to 888 would that reduce payout..I think thats a NO. It would only make it so we dont need so many masternodes. How can we drop payouts  50% on pos and masternodes while raising the price of masternodes? The masternodes would be profitable because there would be fewer. I think this would  hurt pos payouts the most. And im ok with that....Any thoughts....

Why would you want to drop 50%? As long as this discussion has been going on the price has been on a steady incline. This shows that it is nothing but a non-disussion. But for the sake of harmony within the community it might be good to change the numbers.

the most frequent proposal that comes up is:
BLOCK VALUE: 1.00
MN REWARD: 0.80

Let's consider
20% reduction on total coin supply. With the balance shifting more toward mn. This means that mn will be even more profitable. Good for all mn investors, especially the ones that have acquired quite a bit right now... which is ok.

The remedy on top of an already steady price incline could proof to be an accelerator, while an even greater portion of distribution goes to mn holders. We will still have high inflation during the coming months because of the linear solution to a non-linear problem. 20% reduction imo is not the end of the world when considering total coin supply & the shift in balance, 50% is a hard cut though.

[drays]

Guys, don't forget that staking wallets are moving network!! As far as I can see, most people here want to cut rewards from staking wallets and keep the reward for their masternodes. It is understandable, as most people on this thread are masternode owners, and all they want is to increase their share. That's a simple greed though, nothing else (the decision to drastically increase the MN price is also dictated by greed, but I will refrain from commenting on that).

But if you cut the rewards for staking wallets, everyone will stop staking and try to convert their wallets to masternodes (or just sell their coins and get out). Thus the number of staking wallets will strongly decrease, which is bad for the network. Masternodes do not generate blocks, stakers are needed probably even more than masternodes, so we should make sure it is profitable to stake!

I may be mistaken, but please show me why staker's profit should be cut more than masternode's profit... From my point of view all those steps (increasing masternode price and cutting the reward for stakers) have just one goal - to force the smaller players out, and to concentrate profits in fewer hands of big players (the ones who post in this thread). I am not sure this will be good for the coin though, as it is narrowing down the potential 'audience'. Imagine the market where only 10-15 whales are trading with each other . I suppose it will be almost dead and driven by bots - actually just like 8BIT market prior to this takeover, with just some sudden big dumps happening from time to time.

Just my 2 cents   Everybody is free to ignore. As I told once already, I have sold the most of my mined coins on early stage (when they were worth something), so my current share in this coin is not that big, thus I can easily keep silence. But I think if things will progress in this direction, a lot of small players (including me) will leave this ship regardless of this miraculous takeover, and the fact that this coin has really bright and active community (one of the best ones I have seen, and actually this community is the only reason I am still reading this thread and still have some share in this coin).

[Dimitry]

Guys, don't forget that staking wallets are moving network!! As far as I can see, most people here want to cut rewards from staking wallets and keep the reward for their masternodes. It is understandable, as most people on this thread are masternode owners, and all they want is to increase their share. That's a simple greed though, nothing else (the decision to drastically increase the MN price is also dictated by greed, but I will refrain from commenting on that).

But if you cut the rewards for staking wallets, everyone will stop staking and try to convert their wallets to masternodes (or just sell their coins and get out). Thus the number of staking wallets will strongly decrease, which is bad for the network. Masternodes do not generate blocks, stakers are needed probably even more than masternodes, so we should make sure it is profitable to stake!

I may be mistaken, but please show me why staker's profit should be cut more than masternode's profit... From my point of view all those steps (increasing masternode price and cutting the reward for stakers) have just one goal - to force the smaller players out, and to concentrate profits in fewer hands of big players (the ones who post in this thread). I am not sure this will be good for the coin though, as it is narrowing down the potential 'audience'.

Just my 2 cents  As I told once already, I have sold the most of my mined coins on early stage (when they were worth something), so my current share in this coin is not that big, thus I mostly keep silence, letting bigger holders decide. The plan is simple - if things will progress in this direction, I will just join other small players, and leave this ship

Yup its all greed and i'm almost done with my popcorn. ^^100% agree

[skidog]

OK, cut them both by the same is ok with me too. I will not put up another masternode. I am the one thats getting all the staking. I am actually hurting myself. I will not stop staking(I have been staking for a month)...I just think im getting too much. Now that is not greed on my part....Just want to slowly increase price that way we get new investors...

[soco]

My quick newbie perspective on staking and MNs.

It has only been a few months since I decided to stop ignoring crypto currencies. I've made and will continue to make newbie mistakes... (If anyone is offering an apprenticeship, please let me know).

One currency that caught my newbie eye was CLAMS. Fred Flintstone cartoon stuff right? At that time I had really no understanding of staking. Well after visiting a popular CLAMS dice game site, I was shocked to see broadcast into the chat every CLAM they staked and the total. I though to myself something like:  "How can I ever obtain enough CLAMS to stake like they do?" Answer: I could not. I had no way to be involved other than buy a large amount to obtain a reasonable return. From my perspective a "whale staker" is more wolfish.

With running a MN I can be more involved. I get to setup a VPS, learn new operating systems, yell curse words when I get an error but then get satisfaction when I finally get it to work. MN involvement brings me closer to the coin.

-soco

[8-bit-Party]

Just my 2 cents   Everybody is free to ignore.

You are not ignored. There's a voting proposal thread, if you want to change something share your proposal there. If you want increase PoS reward while leaving current MN reward your proposal would be 1.3 / 0.88. You can also reduce inflation, increase PoS reward and reduce MN reward, eg. 1.0 / 0.5 (50% MN 50% PoS). You are free to choose. You have to publish your proposal to let people consider it during voting. So if you believe in what you say you know what to do.  Then, you can continue convincing people to your suggestion. OTHERWISE you WILL be ignored. I am not rude, those rules let us proceed without spending next five months on talking about masternode costs/rewards and so on. Please publish your proposal.

PROPOSALS COLLECTION ENDS AT 6 PM UTC (in about 4 hours)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028119.msg11754165#msg11754165
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028119.msg11754165#msg11754165
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028119.msg11754165#msg11754165
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028119.msg11754165#msg11754165
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028119.msg11754165#msg11754165
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028119.msg11754165#msg11754165
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028119.msg11754165#msg11754165
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028119.msg11754165#msg11754165
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028119.msg11754165#msg11754165
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028119.msg11754165#msg11754165

[skidog]

Wrong thread mate

I put it there too..Just making a point...Sorry...

[niki25]

Guys, don't forget that staking wallets are moving network!! As far as I can see, most people here want to cut rewards from staking wallets and keep the reward for their masternodes. It is understandable, as most people on this thread are masternode owners, and all they want is to increase their share. That's a simple greed though, nothing else (the decision to drastically increase the MN price is also dictated by greed, but I will refrain from commenting on that).

But if you cut the rewards for staking wallets, everyone will stop staking and try to convert their wallets to masternodes (or just sell their coins and get out). Thus the number of staking wallets will strongly decrease, which is bad for the network. Masternodes do not generate blocks, stakers are needed probably even more than masternodes, so we should make sure it is profitable to stake!

I may be mistaken, but please show me why staker's profit should be cut more than masternode's profit... From my point of view all those steps (increasing masternode price and cutting the reward for stakers) have just one goal - to force the smaller players out, and to concentrate profits in fewer hands of big players (the ones who post in this thread). I am not sure this will be good for the coin though, as it is narrowing down the potential 'audience'. Imagine the market where only 10-15 whales are trading with each other . I suppose it will be almost dead and driven by bots - actually just like 8BIT market prior to this takeover, with just some sudden big dumps happening from time to time.

Just my 2 cents   Everybody is free to ignore. As I told once already, I have sold the most of my mined coins on early stage (when they were worth something), so my current share in this coin is not that big, thus I can easily keep silence. But I think if things will progress in this direction, a lot of small players (including me) will leave this ship regardless of this miraculous takeover, and the fact that this coin has really bright and active community (one of the best ones I have seen, and actually this community is the only reason I am still reading this thread and still have some share in this coin).

Well, i think mn should get a higher reward than a staking wallet. If some services are going to be delivered through mn, why would a wallet staking get the same reward as the operator of the mn, that minimum is paying a vps to run it (may not be the case), and offering a service in the future. I mean if mn brings usability why would they get the same reward?.
Im not a big whale nor a big holder, i just started following the coin because i liked the idea of services for mn. And i dont want the coin just in big holder hands.
You shouldnt keep silence, i tell you im not a "big" holder and im here sharing my opinions with the rest of the community.
How much you hold is not important to give your opinion 

[Orestes]

Guys, don't forget that staking wallets are moving network!! As far as I can see, most people here want to cut rewards from staking wallets and keep the reward for their masternodes. It is understandable, as most people on this thread are masternode owners, and all they want is to increase their share. That's a simple greed though, nothing else (the decision to drastically increase the MN price is also dictated by greed, but I will refrain from commenting on that).

But if you cut the rewards for staking wallets, everyone will stop staking and try to convert their wallets to masternodes (or just sell their coins and get out). Thus the number of staking wallets will strongly decrease, which is bad for the network. Masternodes do not generate blocks, stakers are needed probably even more than masternodes, so we should make sure it is profitable to stake!

I may be mistaken, but please show me why staker's profit should be cut more than masternode's profit... From my point of view all those steps (increasing masternode price and cutting the reward for stakers) have just one goal - to force the smaller players out, and to concentrate profits in fewer hands of big players (the ones who post in this thread). I am not sure this will be good for the coin though, as it is narrowing down the potential 'audience'. Imagine the market where only 10-15 whales are trading with each other . I suppose it will be almost dead and driven by bots - actually just like 8BIT market prior to this takeover, with just some sudden big dumps happening from time to time.

Just my 2 cents   Everybody is free to ignore. As I told once already, I have sold the most of my mined coins on early stage (when they were worth something), so my current share in this coin is not that big, thus I can easily keep silence. But I think if things will progress in this direction, a lot of small players (including me) will leave this ship regardless of this miraculous takeover, and the fact that this coin has really bright and active community (one of the best ones I have seen, and actually this community is the only reason I am still reading this thread and still have some share in this coin).

Well, i think mn should get a higher reward than a staking wallet. If some services are going to be delivered through mn, why would a wallet staking get the same reward as the operator of the mn, that minimum is paying a vps to run it (may not be the case), and offering a service in the future. I mean if mn brings usability why would they get the same reward?.
Im not a big whale nor a big holder, i just started following the coin because i liked the idea of services for mn. And i dont want the coin just in big holder hands.
You shouldnt keep silence, i tell you im not a "big" holder and im here sharing my opinions with the rest of the community.
How much you hold is not important to give your opinion  

You can not offer supply increment as as reward for services. rewards will end up being 0% of coin supply. reward for services needs to come from consumers a.k.a. spending.

[niki25]

Guys, don't forget that staking wallets are moving network!! As far as I can see, most people here want to cut rewards from staking wallets and keep the reward for their masternodes. It is understandable, as most people on this thread are masternode owners, and all they want is to increase their share. That's a simple greed though, nothing else (the decision to drastically increase the MN price is also dictated by greed, but I will refrain from commenting on that).

But if you cut the rewards for staking wallets, everyone will stop staking and try to convert their wallets to masternodes (or just sell their coins and get out). Thus the number of staking wallets will strongly decrease, which is bad for the network. Masternodes do not generate blocks, stakers are needed probably even more than masternodes, so we should make sure it is profitable to stake!

I may be mistaken, but please show me why staker's profit should be cut more than masternode's profit... From my point of view all those steps (increasing masternode price and cutting the reward for stakers) have just one goal - to force the smaller players out, and to concentrate profits in fewer hands of big players (the ones who post in this thread). I am not sure this will be good for the coin though, as it is narrowing down the potential 'audience'. Imagine the market where only 10-15 whales are trading with each other . I suppose it will be almost dead and driven by bots - actually just like 8BIT market prior to this takeover, with just some sudden big dumps happening from time to time.

Just my 2 cents   Everybody is free to ignore. As I told once already, I have sold the most of my mined coins on early stage (when they were worth something), so my current share in this coin is not that big, thus I can easily keep silence. But I think if things will progress in this direction, a lot of small players (including me) will leave this ship regardless of this miraculous takeover, and the fact that this coin has really bright and active community (one of the best ones I have seen, and actually this community is the only reason I am still reading this thread and still have some share in this coin).

Well, i think mn should get a higher reward than a staking wallet. If some services are going to be delivered through mn, why would a wallet staking get the same reward as the operator of the mn, that minimum is paying a vps to run it (may not be the case), and offering a service in the future. I mean if mn brings usability why would they get the same reward?.
Im not a big whale nor a big holder, i just started following the coin because i liked the idea of services for mn. And i dont want the coin just in big holder hands.
You shouldnt keep silence, i tell you im not a "big" holder and im here sharing my opinions with the rest of the community.
How much you hold is not important to give your opinion 

You can not offer supply increment as as reward for services. rewards will end up being 0% of coin supply. reward for services needs to come from consumers.

Thats it, but it can also have a fixed rate as it has now. Bringing usability to the coin is always good, paying for the services in 8bit is a good option 

[Orestes]

Guys, don't forget that staking wallets are moving network!! As far as I can see, most people here want to cut rewards from staking wallets and keep the reward for their masternodes. It is understandable, as most people on this thread are masternode owners, and all they want is to increase their share. That's a simple greed though, nothing else (the decision to drastically increase the MN price is also dictated by greed, but I will refrain from commenting on that).

But if you cut the rewards for staking wallets, everyone will stop staking and try to convert their wallets to masternodes (or just sell their coins and get out). Thus the number of staking wallets will strongly decrease, which is bad for the network. Masternodes do not generate blocks, stakers are needed probably even more than masternodes, so we should make sure it is profitable to stake!

I may be mistaken, but please show me why staker's profit should be cut more than masternode's profit... From my point of view all those steps (increasing masternode price and cutting the reward for stakers) have just one goal - to force the smaller players out, and to concentrate profits in fewer hands of big players (the ones who post in this thread). I am not sure this will be good for the coin though, as it is narrowing down the potential 'audience'. Imagine the market where only 10-15 whales are trading with each other . I suppose it will be almost dead and driven by bots - actually just like 8BIT market prior to this takeover, with just some sudden big dumps happening from time to time.

Just my 2 cents   Everybody is free to ignore. As I told once already, I have sold the most of my mined coins on early stage (when they were worth something), so my current share in this coin is not that big, thus I can easily keep silence. But I think if things will progress in this direction, a lot of small players (including me) will leave this ship regardless of this miraculous takeover, and the fact that this coin has really bright and active community (one of the best ones I have seen, and actually this community is the only reason I am still reading this thread and still have some share in this coin).

Well, i think mn should get a higher reward than a staking wallet. If some services are going to be delivered through mn, why would a wallet staking get the same reward as the operator of the mn, that minimum is paying a vps to run it (may not be the case), and offering a service in the future. I mean if mn brings usability why would they get the same reward?.
Im not a big whale nor a big holder, i just started following the coin because i liked the idea of services for mn. And i dont want the coin just in big holder hands.
You shouldnt keep silence, i tell you im not a "big" holder and im here sharing my opinions with the rest of the community.
How much you hold is not important to give your opinion  

You can not offer supply increment as as reward for services. rewards will end up being 0% of coin supply. reward for services needs to come from consumers.

Thats it, but it can also have a fixed rate as it has now. Bringing usability to the coin is always good, paying for the services in 8bit is a good option  

a fixed rate will be brought to a 0% increment over time. its inevitable!

   I will repeat it for you:
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 | ... | +1

0(0) + 1*(1) + 1/2*(2) + 1/3*(3) + 1/4*(4) + 1/5*(5) + 1/6*(6) + | ... | + 1/∞*(∞)

Final term: 1/∞=0

this means no incentive to run services. because there is no pay-out.

master node profitability equilibrium by then is only a fail safe. theoretically the market demand can outgrow this point of equilibrium. then we are out of nodes to support service and the coin will implode.

The ONLY way is payment for services... It's directly correlated it's scalable with demand, thus fair.