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Author Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion?  (Read 901265 times)
Lauda
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July 09, 2015, 03:42:52 PM
 #1001

Exactly. This is why my eyes roll when I hear someone claim their religion is the correct one. They know with 100% certainty.
Yet if that person had be born somewhere else with a different upbringing, there's a very good chance they would believe a conflicting religion was the correct one. They would know with 100% certainty.

As both these religions conflict, at best at least one must be wrong.  Roll Eyes
I always ask them about their belief, even though I do not try to force my reasonable view on them. If your religion is the right one, then you're saying that all other believers (other religions) are worshipping false gods and are probably going to hell?
These discussions can be interesting if the right parties are involved. However, it is quite unfortunate that only a few people are open-minded, especially when it comes to tough topics such as this one.
I've encountered a lot of believers that just do not seem to listen to someone's points.

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the joint
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July 09, 2015, 04:00:15 PM
 #1002

3) You third point is just all over the place.  Are you making an argument against the existence of God based upon what you personally think should be to case, i.e. in an "Well, if I were God..." kind of way?  Do you realize how silly that is?
God gave man free will, if your bible is to be believed Christian. If in creating the universe, God chooses to hide all the empirical evidence of his existence from his children, he is denying us access to the information necessary to exercise our free will! Worse, he has sabotaged us - damning the immortal souls of all non-believers! What sort of petty, cruel, jealous God would behave in this way? Would you have me believe God is a petulent toddler, not to be trusted?

Uh, "my Bible?"  Who said I was a Christian?  Other than coming to the conclusion that Intelligent Design is the mechanism by which reality self-creates, I'm not even religious.  I was raised Catholic and slept on the pews.  Religious dogma gets in the way of sound logic.  I defer to no holy book, ever -- only the rules of logic.  I care about what is true first and foremost.  I have no problem conceding to a superior argument, which is precisely why I believe in Intelligent Design.  I was atheistic for quite a while until I found it's untenable.

I don't even start with a presupposition that God exists, let alone what He is.  I instead remove topological constraints from our understanding of reality to determine its roots, i.e. a foundation or limit of theorization that is impossible to penetrate, and then see what this limit implies as it relates categorically to objective reality.  It just happens to be that these roots implicate Intelligent Design by logical necessity, and there's no way around it.  In fact, it's impossible to get around it because any attempt to do so a priori reinforces Intelligent Design.  It's tautological.
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July 09, 2015, 04:14:04 PM
 #1003

@the joint: You say you believe in God as the intelligent designer. Do you believe God exists now or simply did exist but not anymore?

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July 09, 2015, 04:25:26 PM
 #1004

@the joint: You say you believe in God as the intelligent designer. Do you believe God exists now or simply did exist but not anymore?

Yes, He exists, and His existence is dual in nature.  On one hand, He exists as an absolute monistic entity; on the other hand, He simultaneously exists in terms of stratified constituents of His monistic self.  We are such stratified constituents, and we, too, are intelligent designers.  This serves to explain the claim that "God made man in His image."  We are isomorphic to God, at an infinitely smaller scale.
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July 09, 2015, 05:17:41 PM
Last edit: July 09, 2015, 05:31:37 PM by Beliathon
 #1005

Other than coming to the conclusion that Intelligent Design is the mechanism by which reality self-creates, I'm not even religious.
Frankly I'm impressed that you even acknowledged your chosen set of beliefs was superstition at all, that level of intellectual self-awareness and self-honesty puts you miles ahead of the average theist!

Edit: Nevermind, false alarm. You're religious and dishonest (with us and likely yourself), like so many other theist cowards are when confronted about their faith on the internet. How boring.

@the joint: You say you believe in God as the intelligent designer. Do you believe God exists now or simply did exist but not anymore?

Yes, He exists, and His existence is dual in nature.

If you believe in God, you're religious.  Sorry, but you can't sneak your way into the Cool Kidz' Rationality Club without at least a basic understanding of burden of proof.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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July 09, 2015, 06:09:50 PM
 #1006

Atheists are mostly homosexuals so it doesn't matter what they think or feel, they belong to prison  Smiley
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July 09, 2015, 06:12:52 PM
 #1007

Atheists are mostly homosexuals so it doesn't matter what they think or feel, they belong to prison
Statements like this are the reason America is severing itself from Christianity like it's a fucking tumor.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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July 09, 2015, 06:13:47 PM
 #1008

Atheists are mostly homosexuals so it doesn't matter what they think or feel, they belong to prison  Smiley

What a horribly hateful statement.

Atheists are mostly homosexuals so it doesn't matter what they think or feel, they belong to prison
Statements like this are the reason America is severing itself from Christianity like it's a fucking tumor.

That wasn't a Christian message.
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July 09, 2015, 06:15:11 PM
 #1009

Atheists are mostly homosexuals so it doesn't matter what they think or feel, they belong to prison  Smiley

Got to be the dumbest comment ever.

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July 09, 2015, 06:37:58 PM
 #1010

Atheists are mostly homosexuals so it doesn't matter what they think or feel, they belong to prison  Smiley

Really! what a shameful comment, What do you really thinking when you wrote this comment? You can force anyone to believe on your religion.
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July 09, 2015, 06:46:44 PM
 #1011

Atheists are mostly homosexuals so it doesn't matter what they think or feel, they belong to prison  Smiley

Really! what a shameful comment, What do you really thinking when you wrote this comment? You can force anyone to believe on your religion.

I'm an atheist myself, I'm just trying to blackmail religion  Smiley
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July 09, 2015, 06:47:01 PM
 #1012

Atheists are mostly homosexuals so it doesn't matter what they think or feel, they belong to prison  Smiley

Really! what a shameful comment, What do you really thinking when you wrote this comment? You can force anyone to believe on your religion.

Considering BADecker values rocks greater than homosexual people, this is the type of hate post he would write.

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July 09, 2015, 06:50:49 PM
 #1013

So I see 2 threads of why islam hates people or why people hate Islam. I dont see the point of such a mundane debate based on religion any debate for or against religion would be stupid. Either you are stupid to believe what a prophet / god / divine entity said or you are stupid enough to believe you can change the minds of the bleak minded people who follow such a prophet / god / divine entity.

But since its fun let me initiate my own brand of 'why do' topic.

WHY DO ATHEISTS (like me) HATE RELIGION ?

Seriously what has to happen in a person's life for them to seriously give up hope on the one true everlasting brand (of religion) which their ancestors have followed for generations.

Everyone has their own story even I have mine, so lets hear some of it.



No, I don't think they are but certainly some people from other religions will perceive it that way.
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July 09, 2015, 06:54:36 PM
 #1014

Atheists are mostly homosexuals so it doesn't matter what they think or feel, they belong to prison  Smiley

Really! what a shameful comment, What do you really thinking when you wrote this comment? You can force anyone to believe on your religion.

I'm an atheist myself, I'm just trying to blackmail religion  Smiley

You mean give religious people a bad rep. (Which I actually figured you were doing)

As I said it wasn't a Christian statement.
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July 09, 2015, 07:35:04 PM
 #1015

You mean give religious people a bad rep. (Which I actually figured you were doing)

I can assure you nothing anybody says on here can give religion a worse rep than it has awarded itself already. Isn't it right the subscribers to the religion also take the burden of that bad rep on their shoulders?

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July 09, 2015, 07:40:36 PM
 #1016

Considering BADecker values rocks greater than homosexual people, this is the type of hate post he would write.
Particularly hypocritical considering he's using a computer to spew such ignorance, when Alan Turing himself was a homosexual!

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
the joint
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July 09, 2015, 07:52:52 PM
 #1017

Other than coming to the conclusion that Intelligent Design is the mechanism by which reality self-creates, I'm not even religious.
Frankly I'm impressed that you even acknowledged your chosen set of beliefs was superstition at all, that level of intellectual self-awareness and self-honesty puts you miles ahead of the average theist!

Edit: Nevermind, false alarm. You're religious and dishonest (with us and likely yourself), like so many other theist cowards are when confronted about their faith on the internet. How boring.

@the joint: You say you believe in God as the intelligent designer. Do you believe God exists now or simply did exist but not anymore?

Yes, He exists, and His existence is dual in nature.

If you believe in God, you're religious.  Sorry, but you can't sneak your way into the Cool Kidz' Rationality Club without at least a basic understanding of burden of proof.

Let me ask you a serious question: does it really sound like I'm just pulling all of this out of my you-know-what?

1) How do you confuse "superstitious" with a belief in something due to logical necessity?

2a) I acknowledge I'm religious to the extent that I believe ID is the mechanism by which realty self-creates (because it is logically necessary).  I make exact zero assumptions in formulating my belief.  Yes, I know what assumptions are.

2b) I already explained you how the burden of proof differs between an empirical claim and a logical claim, and also provided differences between respective falsification methods.  If you can logically falsify my claim, go for it.  Contrarily, I have absolute, tautological proof.  If something is logically necessary, what sane person wouldn't believe in it (assuming they are aware of the proof, e.g. if someone has spent ~13 years and committed multiple thousands of hours intensely exploring the subject matter)? 

2c)  The burden of proof for a belief in God is the same standard as a burden of proof for belief in the validity of Empirical exploration, i.e. it is a logical one.  There is exactly zero empirical evidence which validates empirical science; it is entirely validated through sound philosophical reasoning.  Whereas you seem unable to recognize that you must defer to purely abstract reasoning to validate its use, I do, and furthermore I recognize that the same type of philosophical reasoning can soundly be applied to rationalize about truth in general.  You can scream and shout all you want and think that a lack of empirical evidence is a good reason to not believe in ID; it isn't, provably.  This isn't even novel information.  See Hume.

I remind you again that I used to be an atheist.  It's a logically untenable position, and most atheists get stuck at the invalid assumption, "...But there's no physical evidence!"  Yeah, I was stuck there for years...until I understood why it's invalid.  Now, further regarding 'burden of proof,' if you want to make the argument that my burden is that I must present something physical and that logical proof doesn't count, then I'm going to call you simply uneducated on the subject, encourage you to learn more about the relationship between Philosophy and Empiricism, and come back when you concede logical proof is the highest standard for knowledge.  That point isn't up for debate.
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July 09, 2015, 08:40:13 PM
 #1018

You mean give religious people a bad rep. (Which I actually figured you were doing)

I can assure you nothing anybody says on here can give religion a worse rep than it has awarded itself already. Isn't it right the subscribers to the religion also take the burden of that bad rep on their shoulders?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1116425.msg11835382#msg11835382

Smiley

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July 09, 2015, 09:42:48 PM
 #1019

Let me ask you a serious question: does it really sound like I'm just pulling all of this out of my you-know-what?
Of course you believe what you're writing,  that doesn't make you any less wrong about the universe.

Quote
1) How do you confuse "superstitious" with a belief in something due to logical necessity?
You admitted your religious belief in an invisible diety. Religion us a subset of superstition. There's no confusion on my end.

Quote
I acknowledge I'm religious to the extent that I believe ID is the mechanism by which realty self-creates (because it is logically necessary).  I make exact zero assumptions in formulating my belief.  Yes, I know what assumptions are.
You make "no" assumptions? I guess were not counting the big, obvious assumption that the universe has a creator,  and that you have some sort of relationship with him.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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July 09, 2015, 10:19:43 PM
Last edit: July 09, 2015, 10:33:28 PM by the joint
 #1020

Let me ask you a serious question: does it really sound like I'm just pulling all of this out of my you-know-what?
Of course you believe what you're writing,  that doesn't make you any less wrong about the universe.

Quote
1) How do you confuse "superstitious" with a belief in something due to logical necessity?
You admitted your religious belief in an invisible diety. Religion us a subset of superstition. There's no confusion on my end.

Quote
I acknowledge I'm religious to the extent that I believe ID is the mechanism by which realty self-creates (because it is logically necessary).  I make exact zero assumptions in formulating my belief.  Yes, I know what assumptions are.
You make "no" assumptions? I guess were not counting the big, obvious assumption that the universe has a creator,  and that you have some sort of relationship with him.

*Sigh*...really?

Okay, I'm going to keep focusing on one specific point -- one that you continually ignore and have not addressed even once, despite my repetition of it -- until you get it.  It's a point that's not in any way novel on my behalf, one that is accepted in academia, and one for which I can provide literally dozens of credible references for.  It's a critically important point, because you are forever a hypocrite until you acknowledge it.

Disclaimer:  This is going to sound patronizing, but it's not intended to be -- I'm just going to break it down as much as possible until you get it.  To your credit, the point is easily overlooked because of the ad populum opinion that scientific reasoning is the only kind that matters -- but it isn't.  It focuses specifically on the reasoning behind scientific reasoning.

Okay, here we go:

First, I'll start with a couple assumptions I have about your point of view based upon what you've said:

1) You believe only observable things are worth believing in, else it's some form of superstition.
2) You believe that empirical reasoning is the highest standard of (cognitive) knowledge.

Second, now that we have that out of the way, let's lay out a few of my own claims:

1) I know that some abstract things, which are not observable by definition, are worth believing in.  For example, a thought is not observable; a mathematical law is not observable; etc.
2) I know logical reasoning is the highest standard of (cognitive) knowledge.  For now, I'll just concentrate on showing you that it's a higher standard of knowledge than empirical knowledge.

Now, it's clarification time.  Empiricism is an abstract theory:

Quote
em·pir·i·cism
əmˈpirəˌsizəm/
nounPHILOSOPHY
the theory that all knowledge is derived from sense-experience. Stimulated by the rise of experimental science, it developed in the 17th and 18th centuries, expounded in particular by John Locke, George Berkeley, and David Hume.

All theories adhere not to physical structure, but to an abstract mathematical/logical structure.  There is zero physical evidence to validate Empiricism.  In other words, you are believing in a theory yourself with absolutely zero physical evidence to support that theory.  The reason that Empiricism works is because of purely philosophical reasoning.  

Specifically, we defer to Philosophy and say, "Okay, if we want to objectively describe objects in terms of each other, then we must assume that observation has zero physical effect on objective reality.  So, we will simply control for participant observation and set an assumption that an observer causes no effect on physical phenomena."

This assumption has zero empirical basis, and is empirically unfalsifiable.  To empirically falsify this assumption would require that you collect empirical data, i.e. data collected via observation, in a world totally void of any and all observers.  Obviously, this leads to an irreconcilable contradiction, as it is impossible to observe something if the rule is there cannot be any observers to begin with.

So, taking your perspective, I can simply say, "Oh, look how irrational you are!  You believe in something imaginary!  You believe that observation has no effect on physical phenomena, but there's not a single shred of evidence anywhere to support this belief!"

And surely, you would refute this, claiming something to the effect of, "Dude, obviously Empiricism works.  Look at the technological advances we've made, and look how much knowledge and understanding we've gained of certain natural processes."

But what your explanation wouldn't include -- because you lack understanding of it -- is that, again, it works because of an underlying, purely philosophical validation.  That is, Empiricism "works" because we can simply rely upon inductive reasoning as a result of the limitation we have set (again, that limitation is imposed by simply assuming that observer participation has no effect on objective reality).

This makes you a hypocrite.  You are perfectly content believing in an invisible assumption for which there is no evidence.  It is purely abstract, empirically unfalsifiable, and the burden of proof entails deference to -- not evidence, but -- a purely logical argument.  And would ya look at that?!  Something "invisible" has been validated by -- you guessed it! -- logic.

In other words, you are willing to make a complete and total departure from science in order to validate Empiricism.  If you are willing to do such a thing (and you must in order to maintain your belief in its validity, whether you acknowledge it or not), then you are a hypocrite if you maintain that one cannot make a total departure from science in order to validate some other "imaginary" theory.

What matters is if the logical validation is sound.  Period.

Edit:  Here is your claim in the form of a deductive argument:

Premise 1: God is invisible, and therefore has no physical evidence.
Premise 2: If there is no physical evidence for something, it's stupid to believe in it.
Therefore:  It is stupid to believe in God.

Now, referring to Empiricism

Premise 1: The theory of Empiricism, and its underlying assumptions, are invisible, and therefore have no physical evidence.
Premise 2: If there is no physical evidence for something, it's stupid to believe in it.
Therefore:  It is stupid to believe in the theory of Empiricism, and its underlying assumptions.

 Roll Eyes
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