Re: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence

[crazy_rabbit]

Josh also mentioned that they will do a day when they test the new ASIC rigs out on the real Bitcoin Network, and all the BTC mined for that one day they will give out to the developers.

Let me get this straight: They will test the machines on main-net for 24 hours, driving up difficulty into who knows where and divvy up the BTC among themselves, before sending out the machines to customers?

Is that what Josh said?

Who else was witness to this?

Can I quote this?

Actually it was just me, so I guess no- you can't quote me. I hope that wasn't secret info, although I didn't have the feeling it was. That said if anyone is like, "Crazy rabbit said it!" I'll plead the "I was drunk" defense.

But I think the idea is give all of it back to the community developers - not 'divy it up amongst themselves'.

[crazy_rabbit]

No I didn't personally, but I'm sure someone did. They weren't shy about the machines, they opened them up, people could check 'em out, they set them up to mine. They had a small FPGA single, the MINI-RIG FPGA and a prototype ASIC single/jalepeno. All working, all you could touch and play with. Very cool. The mini-rig is VERY NICE.

The coolest part? They did a raffel for the FPGA Single and auctioned off the Mini-RIG (sold for 1000 BTC) and auctioned off the ASIC. So, they aren't shy about the equipment. Josh was there answering all sorts of questions- indeed I wish this came out the week before- he was really open about the company and their plans.

Josh also mentioned that they will do a day when they test the new ASIC rigs out on the real Bitcoin Network, and all the BTC mined for that one day they will give out to the developers. Pretty  cool if you ask me. So, yeah, I'm having trouble believing they are scam. I saw the equipment and they built it with care.

The prototype Single and Jalapeno they showed, were they hashing at 40GH/s and 3.5GH/s?
You said they got auctioned off, who won the auction, and do they have a functioning ASIC now?

A BFL employee probably won the auction for the jalapeno...

I tried finding information about the london conf, pictures, video, anything... and failed.
Would have been nice to see some lousy cell phone vid of the jalapeno... but that kind of stuff is very hard to do for
non-techy folks like bitcoin users.

oh my god you guys are paranoid! I'm sure it must have been out there, didn't even occur to me to take pictures, but people were definitely taking pictures. There were a lot of people in attendance so it's not like it went under the radar. They had their booth right at the entrance.

[nedbert9]

Josh also mentioned that they will do a day when they test the new ASIC rigs out on the real Bitcoin Network, and all the BTC mined for that one day they will give out to the developers.

Let me get this straight: They will test the machines on main-net for 24 hours, driving up difficulty into who knows where and divvy up the BTC among themselves, before sending out the machines to customers?

Is that what Josh said?

Who else was witness to this?

Can I quote this?

Actually it was just me, so I guess no- you can't quote me. I hope that wasn't secret info, although I didn't have the feeling it was. That said if anyone is like, "Crazy rabbit said it!" I'll plead the "I was drunk" defense.

But I think the idea is give all of it back to the community developers - not 'divy it up amongst themselves'.

This is completely accurate.  A couple of days ago Inaba/Josh confirmed that BFL units have (FPGA) and will (ASIC) be tested on main-net for a 24 hour QC period.

BFL gave customer / community guidance early on that they would not be using main-net for testing.  "We are hardware enthusiasts.  We are not interested in mining Bitcoin."

Despite that, they've been doing what they want all along and seem will continue to do so further raising the issue of credibility.

** Worry time ***  Inaba/Josh went on the defensive due to criticism over the revelation.
He stated that it was "requested by devs" that test-net not be used for mining "QC" activities.  Further damaging credibility by stating that it was technically, or practically, too challenging to avoid using main-net for testing.  Gavin and other dev's have contradicted BFL's opinion by mentioning hardware "QC" activities can be performed on the custom, isolated "test-net-in-a-box" package.

BFL, and whoever we can trust them to "donate" the earned BTC to, stands to gain est. $80,000-$100,000 USD.  At a cost of customer trust due to poor guidance and plain misinformation.

You can find a lot of detail on this in the mining forums.

[Desolator]

whoa whoa whoa, back the forum train up a bit here.  What the fuck are any of you in the last 1.5 pages talking about?!  There was some conference and he was there in person?  They showed up with an ASIC miner and auctioned it off?!  They just literally said 2 days ago that they aren't finished and they don't have a single working ASIC miner in their company's hands.  They assured everyone of this.  So they showed up at some alleged conference that someone posted about out on nowhere and not 1 single person took a photo? Not one single Bitcoin Talk forum member who attended this huge, elaborate, epic event owns a cell phone with a camera or thought it was worth snapping a photo?  Do you fake ass forum members posting all this pretend bullshit really believe anyone to believe it?  Mods, get out the ban hammer hard.  That or some of you better start explaining

WHAT

THE

FUCK

Are any of you talking(/lying?) about?!?!?!

[Gabi]

Funny, because so far no one have seen the ASIC. This is so much fail.

[DutchBrat]

whoa whoa whoa, back the forum train up a bit here.  What the fuck are any of you in the last 1.5 pages talking about?!  There was some conference and he was there in person?  They showed up with an ASIC miner and auctioned it off?!  They just literally said 2 days ago that they aren't finished and they don't have a single working ASIC miner in their company's hands.  They assured everyone of this.  So they showed up at some alleged conference that someone posted about out on nowhere and not 1 single person took a photo?

WHAT

THE

FUCK

Are any of you talking(/lying?) about?!?!?!

Josh had said before the London Bitcoin Conference (was held last weekend, so it's  not an alleged conference) that BFL would be showing their ASIC prototype

It's on the forum somewhere

[jjiimm_64]

No I didn't personally, but I'm sure someone did. They weren't shy about the machines, they opened them up, people could check 'em out, they set them up to mine. They had a small FPGA single, the MINI-RIG FPGA and a prototype ASIC single/jalepeno. All working, all you could touch and play with. Very cool. The mini-rig is VERY NICE.

The coolest part? They did a raffel for the FPGA Single and auctioned off the Mini-RIG (sold for 1000 BTC) and auctioned off the ASIC. So, they aren't shy about the equipment. Josh was there answering all sorts of questions- indeed I wish this came out the week before- he was really open about the company and their plans.

Josh also mentioned that they will do a day when they test the new ASIC rigs out on the real Bitcoin Network, and all the BTC mined for that one day they will give out to the developers. Pretty  cool if you ask me. So, yeah, I'm having trouble believing they are scam. I saw the equipment and they built it with care.

The prototype Single and Jalapeno they showed, were they hashing at 40GH/s and 3.5GH/s?
You said they got auctioned off, who won the auction, and do they have a functioning ASIC now?

this is news...

please someone answer the question:

You said they got auctioned off, who won the auction, and do they have a functioning ASIC now?

[Desolator]

WTF is a london bitcoin conference, when was it, why didn't I hear anything about it (virtually impossible), and best of all, how would a convicted felon get a passport?  Or is Josh not that other guy or whatever...ugh, fakes names and crap confuse me

Someone go find the post from 2 days ago where BFL staff assured us all that they don't have a working ASIC miner cuz none are done yet.

As for london, ummm, pics or it didn't happen? lol.

[DutchBrat]

WTF is a london bitcoin conference, when was it, why didn't I hear anything about it (virtually impossible), and best of all, how would a convicted felon get a passport?  Or is Josh not that other guy or whatever...ugh, fakes names and crap confuse me

Someone go find the post from 2 days ago where BFL staff assured us all that they don't have a working ASIC miner cuz none are done yet.

As for london, ummm, pics or it didn't happen? lol.

http://bitcoin2012.com/

I guess virtual impossibilities do exist

And Josh is Inaba or Inaba is Josh.... anyway, he's not Sonny   

[crazy_rabbit]

Funny, because so far no one have seen the ASIC. This is so much fail.

Yeah because you didn't come to the conference and see it.

[Desolator]

But rabbit, they don't have one! lol.  Just hop in your time machine and ask BFL 2 days ago, lol.  Btw maybe they could explain what type of equipment could do this?



Time to answer my own post!

about 1,467 average GPUs
or
528 current generation singles
or
17.4 current generations rigs so it's maybe that but that's 21,825 watts so it's actually probably not that actually
Or
it's 11 bitforce singles or part of 1 bitforce rig which, may I remind you, they do not have and do not exist cuz they're not done yet

Hmmmm...

P.S. if anyone implies that they stopped the airplane in Taiwan and picked up the first ever prototype on the way to the conference, I may hit you, lol

[Bogart]

Maybe some of the people who preordered and paid BTC would care to post their payment addresses.  Then we can look them up in the blockchain and see if they've been spent, broken up, if they're actively circulating, if they've been aggregated into one address, etc.

I have seen a lot of people citing the fact that BFL previously delivered working FPGA-based products.  Can we maybe compare the current situation to the one a bit before the release of the FPGA products?  Were any pictures, design documents, etc made available by BFL as the FPGA products were in development, or was the same lack of transparency shown then as is being now?

As an aside, have any of you who have preordered using the FPGA trade-in program actually sent in your FPGAs, or is BFL not asking for them yet?

[greyhawk]

Maybe some of the people who preordered and paid BTC would care to post their payment addresses.  Then we can look them up in the blockchain and see if they've been spent, broken up, if they're actively circulating, if they've been aggregated into one address, etc.

That would be possible if BFL had received Bitcoin. Only they didn't. They are being paid in cold hard filthy fiat USD via Bit-Pay.

[mtminer]

So BFL has the time & money to send employees to London to show off working prototypes but can't take some cell phone photos and post them for everyone? Maybe a video of it hashing?

What kind of crap is this?

[MrTeal]

But rabbit, they don't have one! lol.  Just hop in your time machine and ask BFL 2 days ago, lol.  Btw maybe they could explain what type of equipment could do this?

Time to answer my own post!

about 1,467 average GPUs
or
528 current generation singles
or
17.4 current generations rigs so it's maybe that but that's 21,825 watts so it's actually probably not that actually
Or
it's 11 bitforce singles or part of 1 bitforce rig which, may I remind you, they do not have and do not exist cuz they're not done yet

Hmmmm...

P.S. if anyone implies that they stopped the airplane in Taiwan and picked up the first ever prototype on the way to the conference, I may hit you, lol

Inaba used to poolhop on P4Man's service, I'm not sure if he still does. Just because his hashrate doesn't stay at EMC doesn't mean he's turning on and off rigs.

[flower1024]

Maybe some of the people who preordered and paid BTC would care to post their payment addresses.  Then we can look them up in the blockchain and see if they've been spent, broken up, if they're actively circulating, if they've been aggregated into one address, etc.

I have seen a lot of people citing the fact that BFL previously delivered working FPGA-based products.  Can we maybe compare the current situation to the one a bit before the release of the FPGA products?  Were any pictures, design documents, etc made available by BFL as the FPGA products were in development, or was the same lack of transparency shown then as is being now?

As an aside, have any of you who have preordered using the FPGA trade-in program actually sent in your FPGAs, or is BFL not asking for them yet?

as btc payments go through bitpay i dont see how my address could help.

[crazy_rabbit]

WTF is a london bitcoin conference, when was it, why didn't I hear anything about it (virtually impossible), and best of all, how would a convicted felon get a passport?  Or is Josh not that other guy or whatever...ugh, fakes names and crap confuse me

Someone go find the post from 2 days ago where BFL staff assured us all that they don't have a working ASIC miner cuz none are done yet.

As for london, ummm, pics or it didn't happen? lol.

Wow, have you been in cryo-sleep or something? Where the heck have you been? Just to catch you up with things, Satoshi is gone, CPU mining is dead and pirate's ship has sailed.

And yes, there was a conference, a few hundred people attended including some top dev's and pool operators, Bitpay a number of other top bitcoin companies, an Icelandic Parliamentarian, and me: Crazy_rabbit.

OR: maybe this is just us building an even BIGGER con. :-)

[nedbert9]

So BFL has the time & money to send employees to London to show off working prototypes but can't take some cell phone photos and post them for everyone? Maybe a video of it hashing?

What kind of crap is this?

This is the phenomenon of a captured market.  In a captured market the vendor can be non receptive or lacking proper communication with the customer.


If competitive market pressure existed in a substantial way, BFL would have to compete not only on technology, but on customer relationships.


The presence of BFL at the Bitcoin 2012 conference is primarily to gain more exposure and mingle with the Bitcoin elite.

[crazy_rabbit]

So BFL has the time & money to send employees to London to show off working prototypes but can't take some cell phone photos and post them for everyone? Maybe a video of it hashing?

What kind of crap is this?

Ask and you shall receive:

whoa whoa whoa, back the forum train up a bit here.  What the fuck are any of you in the last 1.5 pages talking about?!  There was some conference and he was there in person?  They showed up with an ASIC miner and auctioned it off?!  They just literally said 2 days ago that they aren't finished and they don't have a single working ASIC miner in their company's hands.  They assured everyone of this.  So they showed up at some alleged conference that someone posted about out on nowhere and not 1 single person took a photo? Not one single Bitcoin Talk forum member who attended this huge, elaborate, epic event owns a cell phone with a camera or thought it was worth snapping a photo?  Do you fake ass forum members posting all this pretend bullshit really believe anyone to believe it?  Mods, get out the ban hammer hard.  That or some of you better start explaining

WHAT

THE

FUCK

Are any of you talking(/lying?) about?!?!?!

Please lean in real close to your computer screen so I can SMACK THE F*CK OUT OF YOU.

Perhaps your paranoia can be assuaged ever so gently:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6fuEKqGSsQ

WATCH IT AND STFU.

[jjiimm_64]

OR: maybe this is just us building an even BIGGER con. :-)

making a movie  The BitSting