Nefario

[memvola]

Okay, let's assume he sent a list to all issuers. What about the non-cooperating issuers? I'd at least need, for each company, a separate letter signed by GLBSE that shows my shares. Plus, the identity information of these issuers need to be communicated to the shareholders. Their obligations won't disappear until all the disputes are resolved, though most of is simply as a witness.

There are reasons securities market is heavily regulated. One thing is to prevent entities like GLBSE from withholding or falsifying such information. It's pretty ironic that it's now happening (supposedly) because of regulatory trouble.

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[Bitcoin Oz]

Okay, let's assume he sent a list to all issuers. What about the non-cooperating issuers? I'd at least need, for each company, a separate letter signed by GLBSE that shows my shares. Plus, the identity information of these issuers need to be communicated to the shareholders. Their obligations won't disappear until all the disputes are resolved, though most of is simply as a witness.

There are reasons securities market is heavily regulated. One thing is to prevent entities like GLBSE from withholding or falsifying such information. It's pretty ironic that it's now happening (supposedly) because of regulatory trouble.

There is absolutely no indication regulators have even contacted Nefario. Or that he has even spoken to a lawyer. The only evidence we can rely on is that Nefario is totally incompetent.

[repentance]

Can you take me off this list? I am easily overwhelmed by too much
communication. I'm finding all this email exhausting me and
unbalancing my mind which makes working on Bitcoin projects difficult.

Was the last response to me contacting the other shareholders. Most of them have basically washed their hands of glbse.

LOL.  Amir asked to be taken off the mailing list when the Bitcoinica shit hit the fan, too.

Seriously folks, don't get involved in operating Bitcoin businesses if you can't handle stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility when shit goes wrong.  Because shit will go wrong in every business and there's a very high chance in the case of start ups that it will go badly wrong.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Because shit will go wrong in every business and there's a very high chance in the case of start ups that it will go badly wrong.

...and an even higher chance that any open unregulated BTC exchange will go spectacularly wrong.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Can you take me off this list? I am easily overwhelmed by too much
communication. I'm finding all this email exhausting me and
unbalancing my mind which makes working on Bitcoin projects difficult.

Was the last response to me contacting the other shareholders. Most of them have basically washed their hands of glbse.

LOL.  Amir asked to be taken off the mailing list when the Bitcoinica shit hit the fan, too.

Seriously folks, don't get involved in operating Bitcoin businesses if you can't handle stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility when shit goes wrong.  Because shit will go wrong in every business and there's a very high chance in the case of start ups that it will go badly wrong.

I wouldnt call people who simply owned glbse shares "involved" in the business at all. Its closer to owning apple stock and going to shareholder meetings occasionally and rubber stamping decisions made by the ceo.

 If you are in a glbse business make sure all the officers have backups of the database at least.

[MPOE-PR]

If anyone is still keeping score, the recent ECB report clearly shows that institution does not regard Bitcoin as either a currency or something they regulate. This would be giving the lie to Nefario once more, seeing how in this context it's highly unlikely the FSA would be investigating a Bitcoin venture.

Okay, let's assume he sent a list to all issuers. What about the non-cooperating issuers? I'd at least need, for each company, a separate letter signed by GLBSE that shows my shares. Plus, the identity information of these issuers need to be communicated to the shareholders. Their obligations won't disappear until all the disputes are resolved, though most of is simply as a witness.

There are reasons securities market is heavily regulated. One thing is to prevent entities like GLBSE from withholding or falsifying such information. It's pretty ironic that it's now happening (supposedly) because of regulatory trouble.

There is absolutely no indication regulators have even contacted Nefario. Or that he has even spoken to a lawyer. The only evidence we can rely on is that Nefario is totally incompetent.

Actually, seeing how the person he identified as his lawyer didn't return calls/emails in the past couple of weeks, it's highly unlikely that they ever heard of James McNefario or w/e his name is.

[Akka]

I heard that little voice whispering "you are going to regret this" when I send back that double payment.

At this point I'm sure this was a mistake. Nefario won't send any asset information, won't he?

Just f***

[superfastkyle]

No you probably won't ever see any asset information. In fact the whole thing was probably a setup with one of the major asset holders on glbse so they would never have to pay back their investors

I heard that little voice whispering "you are going to regret this" when I send back that double payment.

At this point I'm sure this was a mistake. Nefario won't send any asset information, won't he?

Just f***

[SebastianJu]

Sounds like the majority now thinks that nefario was trying to scam from the start. Im still not convinced. I think he is stubborn and made many mistakes but to think that he would kill his little cashcow glbse only for such a small amount of usermoney doesnt get in my head. He could come with a way better idea than that. A project where way more money would have been collected. Or for glbse he could for example simulate that the server was hacked and all btc are gone. This way he would have hold a big part of his reputation.

And he started to communicate at least a small bit some days ago.

And like you say... there is no hint that its the assetdata that makes him so fearful. He probably wasnt threatened by fsa or similar.

[muyuu]

Sounds like the majority now thinks that nefario was trying to scam from the start. Im still not convinced. I think he is stubborn and made many mistakes but to think that he would kill his little cashcow glbse only for such a small amount of usermoney doesnt get in my head. He could come with a way better idea than that. A project where way more money would have been collected. Or for glbse he could for example simulate that the server was hacked and all btc are gone. This way he would have hold a big part of his reputation.

And he started to communicate at least a small bit some days ago.

And like you say... there is no hint that its the assetdata that makes him so fearful. He probably wasnt threatened by fsa or similar.

I agree, but it doesn't make a big difference. He ended up to manage the whole thing like a cunt, punishing everybody involved to the same degree and not owning up to his responsibility.

He's completely dead in the community and possibly for any sort of entrepreneurship. He might as well change his name and go back to teaching English in China.

[MPOE-PR]

Sounds like the majority now thinks that nefario was trying to scam from the start. Im still not convinced. I think he is stubborn and made many mistakes but to think that he would kill his little cashcow glbse only for such a small amount of usermoney doesnt get in my head. He could come with a way better idea than that. A project where way more money would have been collected. Or for glbse he could for example simulate that the server was hacked and all btc are gone. This way he would have hold a big part of his reputation.

And he started to communicate at least a small bit some days ago.

And like you say... there is no hint that its the assetdata that makes him so fearful. He probably wasnt threatened by fsa or similar.

FWIW, I don't think he was trying to scam from the start. I think he was incompetent from the start, and the effect of incompetence is to slowly build a gap between representation and reality. That gap requires servicing, which is a permanent draw on resources. Eventually that draw became too much and overwhelmed whatever glib Nefario had. It's how these things work, and it's why the incompetent should not be in charge of large projects: even if originally they may seem okay on the surface of things, that gap is there and is growing. Just look at shtylman.

[SebastianJu]

Sounds like the majority now thinks that nefario was trying to scam from the start. Im still not convinced. I think he is stubborn and made many mistakes but to think that he would kill his little cashcow glbse only for such a small amount of usermoney doesnt get in my head. He could come with a way better idea than that. A project where way more money would have been collected. Or for glbse he could for example simulate that the server was hacked and all btc are gone. This way he would have hold a big part of his reputation.

And he started to communicate at least a small bit some days ago.

And like you say... there is no hint that its the assetdata that makes him so fearful. He probably wasnt threatened by fsa or similar.

FWIW, I don't think he was trying to scam from the start. I think he was incompetent from the start, and the effect of incompetence is to slowly build a gap between representation and reality. That gap requires servicing, which is a permanent draw on resources. Eventually that draw became too much and overwhelmed whatever glib Nefario had. It's how these things work, and it's why the incompetent should not be in charge of large projects: even if originally they may seem okay on the surface of things, that gap is there and is growing. Just look at shtylman.

You might be right but i wonder if others around him shouldnt see some signs of it before. So for example a change in behaviour or so.

On the other hand... if its really some kind of this and he took the brake by killing glbse than the chance that the asset infos are coming is higher. Because these infos wouldnt have a value for him otherwise and it wouldnt stand something against it to give the infos out. At least these infos are worth more than the users-money... at least for honest issuers.

If he claims that he couldnt get all the money back from double payment and the users that didnt pay back get a scammer tag or something and he still refuses to give out the asset infos i even would be ready to pay some btc into a collection pot to pay it to nefario so that he cant excuse it with "there is still money not paid back". Because i would gain more when i could have the asset infos. I would hate the guys holding the usermoney hostage and force me to pay and i would hope they suffer but at the end i need to see it as a invest-gain-thing without emotions.

I hope thats not needed at the end. And i wonder if nefario will write the next blogentry 7 days after his last one because he then has to be through the full list of double payments receivers.

[HorseRider]

He's completely dead in the community and possibly for any sort of entrepreneurship. He might as well change his name and go back to teaching English in China.

I promise that if he does not pay back the bitcoin and asset information, he cannot work for any Chinese employer for longer than 3 months. I will unit all the Chinse bitcoiners chasing him and let all his colleague and friends know what he has done to this community.

Other Irish and community members should do this, too, if he start any new companies or find a new job. Chase him until he pay back the coin and assets info.

As lots of people around this forum, I will only forgive him and try to understand him after he has actually done what he promised. I still hold that he will do the right thing, but my confidence level has dropped significantly. The delay is very weird and impossible to understand.

[MPOE-PR]

If he claims that he couldnt get all the money back from double payment and the users that didnt pay back get a scammer tag or something and he still refuses to give out the asset infos i even would be ready to pay some btc into a collection pot to pay it to nefario

I think the scientific name for this is Stockholm Syndrome.

[SebastianJu]

If he claims that he couldnt get all the money back from double payment and the users that didnt pay back get a scammer tag or something and he still refuses to give out the asset infos i even would be ready to pay some btc into a collection pot to pay it to nefario

I think the scientific name for this is Stockholm Syndrome.

So you have a better idea than taking away the reasons why he could block giving out the asset infos? Let me know!

[smoothie]

Sounds like the majority now thinks that nefario was trying to scam from the start. Im still not convinced. I think he is stubborn and made many mistakes but to think that he would kill his little cashcow glbse only for such a small amount of usermoney doesnt get in my head. He could come with a way better idea than that. A project where way more money would have been collected. Or for glbse he could for example simulate that the server was hacked and all btc are gone. This way he would have hold a big part of his reputation.

And he started to communicate at least a small bit some days ago.

And like you say... there is no hint that its the assetdata that makes him so fearful. He probably wasnt threatened by fsa or similar.

FWIW, I don't think he was trying to scam from the start. I think he was incompetent from the start, and the effect of incompetence is to slowly build a gap between representation and reality. That gap requires servicing, which is a permanent draw on resources. Eventually that draw became too much and overwhelmed whatever glib Nefario had. It's how these things work, and it's why the incompetent should not be in charge of large projects: even if originally they may seem okay on the surface of things, that gap is there and is growing. Just look at shtylman.

Well Nefario didn't know what the meaning of "arbitrage" was. That is telling.

[memvola]

If he claims that he couldnt get all the money back from double payment and the users that didnt pay back get a scammer tag or something and he still refuses to give out the asset infos i even would be ready to pay some btc into a collection pot to pay it to nefario

I think the scientific name for this is Stockholm Syndrome.

So you have a better idea than taking away the reasons why he could block giving out the asset infos? Let me know!

There is no limit to the reasons he can make up, so what makes you think you could take them away? I agree with you that we should play his game, but just to see the extent he's capable of.

Better idea is to go visit him physically, preferably as a group.

[SebastianJu]

Till now he only set these walls before spreading asset infos: The asset infos can only go out after the user bitcoins are paid out and the user bitcoins can only go out after the double payments are paid back.

So it looks to me that the first thing could have sound logical to him and he is obviously stubborn and wont change his mind on this. The second thing... is a bit stranger. It could be intended but it could be stupidity too. It can happen fast that you dont test enough or think testing isnt needed. Especially when he feels stressed because of the situation.

When these walls are worked up it would be hard to make another excuse that sounds reasonable. I mean i cant imagine something that would sound believeable. Its a risk of course but i have more to lose without the asset infos than i would when i help paying back double payments that couldnt be collected back.

I wonder if visiting him by group will have an effect. He probably only would react with fear, calling police or so. I believe its better to communicate without pressure to solve problems. Because pressure can lead to people closing themselves up if they cant handle it anymore. That could raise the problems.
I think he still is under big pressure. I mean think about what he lost. He lost his life he was so proud of. He lost the trust of a big community that were his friends. His family feels the effects probably. He has pressure with money probably... I mean one cant take more pressure than one can take. It even could be that he feels so much pressure that he has to stop working on the problems because he cant handle the pressure anymore. And he obviously isnt the type of person that is taking helping hands.

Because of that i took it as a good sign that he communicated in the blog. That means he is able to work on the problems and seems to do it. Unfortunately that was 15 days back. It would be time... really... to at least say some words whats the status. I mean he was through half of the list of double payment receivers after 7 days. Now its 15 days later... he should be able to contact all double payment receivers now.

[jamesg]

Because of that i took it as a good sign that he communicated in the blog.

He communicated on the glbse blog two weeks ago. Holding asset information hostage is not helping anyone, especially for his customers.

[memvola]

he is obviously stubborn

If this turns out to be the explanation of everything, I will lose all hope for humanity. With thieves and murderers, you at least know where you are standing. But are there really people who cause harm to hundreds of people only because they are stubborn? Really? Did we trust such a person? Is this the reality of this community? How will we ever do any business? Why are we even against regulation?

I wonder if visiting him by group will have an effect. He probably only would react with fear, calling police or so. I believe its better to communicate without pressure to solve problems. Because pressure can lead to people closing themselves up if they cant handle it anymore. That could raise the problems.

Okay, let's assume we wait a month more. We let most of the asset issuers run away with our money. The honest businesses are negatively impacted, some to the point of bankruptcy. Then what do we do? Isn't it better to act sooner than later?