IOTA

[Come-from-Beyond]

@CfB, can you explain how someone can be 20x on a purchase of software?

Like this - http://kotaku.com/holy-grail-of-rare-video-games-found-in-a-goodwill-fo-473730982 - for example.

According to http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=d1ff4369-afcc-4879-97fa-7a8afd8b3380 you have the right to resell iotas.

OTC deals escrowed by me were done at 20x+ of the original iota price.

[1715334117]

1715334117

[Come-from-Beyond]

Can we see somewhere how much is donated to the foundation till now and how much to the BIG deal? thanks

Can somebody answer this question? jees

Technically it's not easy. I'll post next time I get the number.

33.3% of Foundation funding goal is reached. 4.7% is the weighted average donation percentage.

[50cent_rapper]

http://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-bitcoin-mainstream-microtransactions/

But, Hees doesn't exactly see consumers interacting with micropayments. Rather, he is about machine-to-machine asset transfers, where machines, whether factory machines or drones, are the ones transferring value

.

Hees called this ability a "building block" of the Internet of Things and offered the example whereby a machine could purchase resources, like the temperature in another room, based on predefined instructions. The vision is by no means unusual, even for an industry prone to big ideas.

IOTA is moving in right direction 

[moonfrog]

Need help, after starting IRI (latest version) throws error: this address already in use. What should I do?

bumped

[50cent_rapper]

Need help, after starting IRI (latest version) throws error: this address already in use. What should I do?

bumped

Cfb answering here: http://chat.iotatoken.com/channel/iotatesting 

[Come-from-Beyond]

Need help, after starting IRI (latest version) throws error: this address already in use. What should I do?

Post the screenshot, please.

[GetVisaCoin]

@CfB, can you explain how someone can be 20x on a purchase of software?

Like this - http://kotaku.com/holy-grail-of-rare-video-games-found-in-a-goodwill-fo-473730982 - for example.

According to http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=d1ff4369-afcc-4879-97fa-7a8afd8b3380 you have the right to resell iotas.

OTC deals escrowed by me were done at 20x+ of the original iota price.

@CfB, those links didn't restore my faith in the direction you and David seem to want to take IOTA in, but it's your project, so I wish you both well.

I believed I bought tokens for the IOTA network, and I want that network to succeed, and I believe all those who work behind the scenes deserve compensation, and I think a 5% premine is the way to achieve that. Up until a couple of days ago I believed in the direction you guys were headed.

However, things have changed in the last few days. I don't like being handcuffed to a potential outcome I can't control where the 5% target isn't met, so you and David fork IOTA, and even though I paid my 5% donation, my investment in tokens/software is worthless through no fault of my own, and, a new corporatised reboot of IOTA exists that I hold no stake in, even though I sent you bitcoins in good faith.
 

I didn't know about this condition for a 5% community donation for the foundation or you go into partnership with corporates, and it feels most definitely like a threat to me. I understand your time is valuation and needs to be respected, but I used my time to earn money that I sent off to the IOTA ICO, and I don't believe you and David respect that fact, otherwise you wouldn't be raising the possibility of there being a fork that dosn't include the original ICO investors. You're refusal to clarify that matter shows a lack of respect for the original supporters of IOTA.

What makes the situation doubly concerning is the donations are totally unnecessary, as a premine achieves the fund raising outcome we all seem to agree on perfectly well, so as I speculated, I think the reason for your preference for donations is not related to neutralizing the 'bystander effect', but more likely for some other legal reason, which is fine by me, but why wont you guys be upfront? This obfuscation of the facts, combined with David's threatening and insulting tone to supporters like myself recently is a red flag.

I can handle David insulting me and others, but I don't like his chances of navigating the path ahead for IOTA with such an overly macho and immature style. That style from a project manager doesn't work unless he's also the code guy, in which case people have to suffer in silence and put up with the BS. In David's case he'll simply be replaced by a more professional person at a later date, but by then he will have had plenty of time to poison the well with key stakeholders and partners. I've been in business for 20+ years and that's the way it works. Managers can only act like David if they're irreplaceable, and David is easily replaced, so eventually key interests will want him removed, and that's going to be messy. He wont go quietly and will try and lob grenades as he goes. His involvement from here on with IOTA makes the future less certain.

So I am selling a 1% stake in IOTA token supply for a 25x return. If CfB agrees he can act as escrow. That'll leave me with a small stake which I'll gladly donate 5% from. If anyone wants to own 1% of IOTA let me know. I don't agree with what's happening with the foundation funding from donations, but for those who feel comfortable with that, here's a chance to get on board. I know IOTA is not at 25X yet, but when it is I want to move on regardless of what happens from here.

[mladen00]

i donate in version 0.9.17 6%, now i'm on version 0.9.19 and i again got pop up donation window.
I must donate again, or my donation from version 9.17 is ok?

[50cent_rapper]

@CfB, can you explain how someone can be 20x on a purchase of software?

Like this - http://kotaku.com/holy-grail-of-rare-video-games-found-in-a-goodwill-fo-473730982 - for example.

According to http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=d1ff4369-afcc-4879-97fa-7a8afd8b3380 you have the right to resell iotas.

OTC deals escrowed by me were done at 20x+ of the original iota price.

@CfB, those links didn't restore my faith in the direction you and David seem to want to take IOTA in, but it's your project, so I wish you both well.

I believed I bought tokens for the IOTA network, and I want that network to succeed, and I believe all those who work behind the scenes deserve compensation, and I think a 5% premine is the way to achieve that. Up until a couple of days ago I believed in the direction you guys were headed.

However, things have changed in the last few days. I don't like being handcuffed to a potential outcome I can't control where the 5% target isn't met, so you and David fork IOTA, and even though I paid my 5% donation, my investment in tokens/software is worthless through no fault of my own, and, a new corporatised reboot of IOTA exists that I hold no stake in, even though I sent you bitcoins in good faith.
 

I didn't know about this condition for a 5% community donation for the foundation or you go into partnership with corporates, and it feels most definitely like a threat to me. I understand your time is valuation and needs to be respected, but I used my time to earn money that I sent off to the IOTA ICO, and I don't believe you and David respect that fact, otherwise you wouldn't be raising the possibility of there being a fork that dosn't include the original ICO investors. You're refusal to clarify that matter shows a lack of respect for the original supporters of IOTA.

What makes the situation doubly concerning is the donations are totally unnecessary, as a premine achieves the fund raising outcome we all seem to agree on perfectly well, so as I speculated, I think the reason for your preference for donations is not related to neutralizing the 'bystander effect', but more likely for some other legal reason, which is fine by me, but why wont you guys be upfront? This obfuscation of the facts, combined with David's threatening and insulting tone to supporters like myself recently is a red flag.

I can handle David insulting me and others, but I don't like his chances of navigating the path ahead for IOTA with such an overly macho and immature style. That style from a project manager doesn't work unless he's also the code guy, in which case people have to suffer in silence and put up with the BS. In David's case he'll simply be replaced by a more professional person at a later date, but by then he will have had plenty of time to poison the well with key stakeholders and partners. I've been in business for 20+ years and that's the way it works. Managers can only act like David if they're irreplaceable, and David is easily replaced, so eventually key interests will want him removed, and that's going to be messy. He wont go quietly and will try and lob grenades as he goes. His involvement from here on with IOTA makes the future less certain.

So I am selling a 1% stake in IOTA token supply for a 25x return. If CfB agrees he can act as escrow. That'll leave me with a small stake which I'll gladly donate 5% from. If anyone wants to own 1% of IOTA let me know. I don't agree with what's happening with the foundation funding from donations, but for those who feel comfortable with that, here's a chance to get on board. I know IOTA is not at 25X yet, but when it is I want to move on regardless of what happens from here.

So you are a whale with > 1%.
You wanna sell 1% of all IOTAs to make 2500% in six month and you do not want to donate 5% ?
I see.

BigIOTA donates, even though he bought at market price, not participating in Crowdsale.

PM BigIOTABig he is buying big stakes https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=803439.

I will also donate my funds prepared for Big Deal to foundation to compensate your runaway, asshole.

And I guess that I already saw this kind of a behavior: when someone wanna to dump big stake and do to not want to donate he simply write big text how rude David is and go away slamming the door.

Be the man: say you just wanna dump everything for 2500% and save your 5% in a pocket - then I will at least respect you.

[vhong]

i donate in version 0.9.17 6%, now i'm on version 0.9.19 and i again got pop up donation window.
I must donate again, or my donation from version 9.17 is ok?

It's simple if your donation from version 9.17 already reflected or deducted in your total balance on version 9.19 probably you don't need to donate again. It's up to you if you want to donate again additional percentage of your IOTA to the foundation.

[GetVisaCoin]

So you are a whale with > 1%.
You wanna sell 1% of all IOTAs to make 2500% in six month and you do not want to donate 5% ?
I see.

BigIOTA donates, even though he bought at market price, not participating in Crowdsale.

PM BigIOTABig he is buying big stakes https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=803439.

I will also donate my funds prepared for Big Deal to foundation to compensate your runaway, asshole.

And I guess that I already saw this kind of a behavior: when someone wanna to dump big stake and do to not want to donate he simply write big text how rude David is and go away slamming the door.

Be the man: say you just wanna dump everything for 2500% and save your 5% in a pocket - then I will at least respect you.

You didn't read my post did you.

I am perfectly happy to donate my 5%, and will.

BUT, I am NOT happy to have IOTA forked if the target isn't reached, even though I DID donate my 5%.

That's what CfB and David aren't ruling out. Read the thread before you decide who to criticize. You might realise you agree with me.

Do you want to donate your 5% and then lose the other 95% when the target isn't reached?

Would you prefer a 5% premine instead that guarantees the foundation gets funded?

Lots of people wont even be following this thread, or will but wont donate. I AM DONATING!

Just do a 5% premine

[50cent_rapper]

So you are a whale with > 1%.
You wanna sell 1% of all IOTAs to make 2500% in six month and you do not want to donate 5% ?
I see.

BigIOTA donates, even though he bought at market price, not participating in Crowdsale.

PM BigIOTABig he is buying big stakes https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=803439.

I will also donate my funds prepared for Big Deal to foundation to compensate your runaway, asshole.

And I guess that I already saw this kind of a behavior: when someone wanna to dump big stake and do to not want to donate he simply write big text how rude David is and go away slamming the door.

Be the man: say you just wanna dump everything for 2500% and save your 5% in a pocket - then I will at least respect you.

You didn't read my post did you.

I am perfectly happy to donate my 5%, and will.

BUT, I am NOT happy to have IOTA forked if the target isn't reached, even though I DID donate my 5%.

That's what CfB and David aren't ruling out. Read the thread before you decide who to criticize. You might realise you agree with me.

Do you want to donate your 5% and then lose the other 95% when the target isn't reached?

Would you prefer a 5% premine instead that guarantees the foundation gets funded?

Lots of people wont even be following this thread, or will but wont donate. I AM DONATING!

Just do a 5% premine

25 November David wrote this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1262688.msg13066464#msg13066464

I thought I had written it as clear possible, but I'll reiterate: THERE IS NO PREMINE. 999 999 999 is the total amount of iotas that will ever exist. ALL of them are up for sale. The development fund comes from the Bitcoins that we raise.

After the Crowdsale they paid Value Added Tax (VAT) on software sale.

Now you suggest to make a premine, but the problem is that if they do they will go to jail. 

[ImI]

So you are a whale with > 1%.
You wanna sell 1% of all IOTAs to make 2500% in six month and you do not want to donate 5% ?
I see.

BigIOTA donates, even though he bought at market price, not participating in Crowdsale.

PM BigIOTABig he is buying big stakes https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=803439.

I will also donate my funds prepared for Big Deal to foundation to compensate your runaway, asshole.

And I guess that I already saw this kind of a behavior: when someone wanna to dump big stake and do to not want to donate he simply write big text how rude David is and go away slamming the door.

Be the man: say you just wanna dump everything for 2500% and save your 5% in a pocket - then I will at least respect you.

You didn't read my post did you.

I am perfectly happy to donate my 5%, and will.

BUT, I am NOT happy to have IOTA forked if the target isn't reached, even though I DID donate my 5%.

That's what CfB and David aren't ruling out. Read the thread before you decide who to criticize. You might realise you agree with me.

Do you want to donate your 5% and then lose the other 95% when the target isn't reached?

Would you prefer a 5% premine instead that guarantees the foundation gets funded?

Lots of people wont even be following this thread, or will but wont donate. I AM DONATING!

Just do a 5% premine

I understand your criticism, but a 5% premine that hasnt been included in the ICO would result in big issues legally as community wise. Not everybody will agree with that and like you some won't like the sheer fact that they havent been informed from the start about something like that and are now being forced to do so.

[Tobo]

You didn't read my post did you.
I am perfectly happy to donate my 5%, and will.
BUT, I am NOT happy to have IOTA forked if the target isn't reached, even though I DID donate my 5%.
That's what CfB and David aren't ruling out. Read the thread before you decide who to criticize. You might realise you agree with me.
Do you want to donate your 5% and then lose the other 95% when the target isn't reached?
Would you prefer a 5% premine instead that guarantees the foundation gets funded?
Lots of people wont even be following this thread, or will but wont donate. I AM DONATING!
Just do a 5% premine

Premine is not an option for now. It has been restated many times by the team. Forget about it. You only option is to donate. Yes, there is still a risk if you donate 5% and other don't. But it is much a bigger risk if you don't donate. So you got a smaller risk if donating. On top of that, if you donate and the foundation is still not be created, I guess that you as a donator might have a chance to be considered and be given some kind of privilege in the team's future projects.

[bubbletea789]

BUT, I am NOT happy to have IOTA forked if the target isn't reached,

then just donate and encourage everyone else as a community to do the thing that we agree on.

once again, please allow me to quote myself in case you did not see my last response to you.

@the guy talking above.
please read carefully before you express your opinion.

at least read the ones in bold. and at least know who say what first.

so despite all the controversy around my recent post, let's be blunt and clear, this is beta plan (aka back up plan when we as a community fail to establish a properly funded foundation).

1)iota 1.0 is launched. software prepurchased is delivered as promised. done deal to those who whine that they paid for this, certainly we all did.

2)those who wish (and have already done so by donating more than 5% or have not made a claim but wish to 5% of their claimable allocated to the foundation) to form a well funded foundation with the current vision for IOTA project that cfb and David are seeing, please stand up.

3)Regarding those who have purchases iotas on the secondary market, i believe that we can have them transferred over at no tax (or we would refuse their generosity). So the above mentioned filter will only be applicable to genesis iota claimers.

4)we will go to iota 1.1 (or better 2.0) together.

5)those who wish to go the other way of a directionless project, go ahead with their bags.

do not flame me for saying this, i am just being blunt trying to make it crystal clear and offering a way out for everyone.

tl,dr; I am not threatening any single one, everyone is free to voice their opinions and if a large enough number of people agree with an idea, we will have "the main chain" : )

so be generous and worry not of the freerider problem, but do what we think is right and best for IOTA project then people with the same goal can always sort it out together.

Stay cool,

just to clear up some confusions:

1) I am in no way associated with cfb or david, except for the fact that we share certain similar goals on getting a certain project/idea to be the backbone of the iot ecojomy.

2) my opinion is of my own.

3) noone is threatening anyone, not even an implied threat was meant. because we are working in this open source environment. (i.e anyone was free to take ethereum code and ran with it, but whether they manage to persuade the devs to join them and whether they manage to get another round of funding is another story)

4) I am just trying to create a backup plan for people sharing a common goal.

5) noone is leaving anyone behind. it is only about whether you decide to join us on this vision of seeing IOTA going forward with the best possible option at the moment.

remain calm and be generous

[GetVisaCoin]

I understand your criticism, but a 5% premine that hasnt been included in the ICO would result in big issues legally as community wise. Not everybody will agree with that and like you some won't like the sheer fact that they havent been informed from the start about something like that and are now being forced to do so.

Either way something is being included that wasn't mentioned in the ico:
1- 5% premine
2- 5% donation

1- ensures original IOTA investors are part of the future

2- does NOT


which is better for you?

both are new developments that weren't disclosed during the ICO

[Tobo]

IOTA Foundation donation info :
http://forum.iotatoken.com/t/iota-foundation-donation-info/354

There is an extra strong incentive for donation:

in addition to this recognition as a true supporter of the project those who donate will be given a certain donation-amount-proportionate privilege in upcoming projects that involve the initiators of IOTA. ( No more details on this at the moment )

Jinn 2 

I guess whoever does not donate will be left behind for real this time.

[LitcoinCollector]

I think everybody will donate and we will meet the foundation requirement.

Will there be an idiot proof, 1 click download, application with a donation button out soon (something like qt) ?

This will speed up the donation process very much I think.

[GetVisaCoin]

Premine is not an option for now. It has been restated many times by the team. Forget about it. You only option is to donate. Yes, there is still a risk if you donate 5% and other don't. But it is much a bigger risk if you don't donate. So you got a smaller risk if donating. On top of that, if you donate and the foundation is still not be created, I guess that you as a donator might have a chance to be considered and be given some kind of privilege in the team's future projects.

Read your statement above and imagine you are the CEO of a large company considering investing with CfB and David.

Would a 'deal' made with these guys be worth much knowing what they've done with previous business partners?

Time to call a spade a spade. Working with people who change conditions with threats is very risky

[50cent_rapper]

I understand your criticism, but a 5% premine that hasnt been included in the ICO would result in big issues legally as community wise. Not everybody will agree with that and like you some won't like the sheer fact that they havent been informed from the start about something like that and are now being forced to do so.

Either way something is being included that wasn't mentioned in the ico:
1- 5% premine
2- 5% donation

1- ensures original IOTA investors are part of the future

2- does NOT


which is better for you?

both are new developments that weren't disclosed during the ICO

You definitely can get insurance in bank on your deposit (interest rate is 0.5% per year).
It's little more difficult with "insurances" when we talk about thousands of %.