Bitcoin-Central, first exchange licensed to operate with a bank. This is HUGE

[Kouye]

As I have already explained to you the EU has the same type of laws.  The laws are draconian in many ways and they disrupt normal commerce in many cases but the fact is they are there and you have to deal with it.  My information comes from listening to the people who are actually setting up business, have employees, investors, etc.  If you listened to the Draper group the father said the exchange business is the worst business to get into for Bitcoin because it has such a large regulatory hurdle and a high probability of going to jail.  The National Money transmitter association has the same story and they have been doing this for year and years.  

It is true that you can use another entity to do the money transmission as long as that entity is registered as a money transmitter.  If you are running an exchange that is a major task because everything has to audited, bonded, etc. and they have to keep track of your transactions and everyone still has to comply with anti Money laundering/Know Your customer Laws, etc. so you are really not skirting anything by using another entity to do the transmission.  

The only people who are giving a different story are the people who are posting here who have no references or basis for their ideas.  My impression is that it is mostly people who never actually ran any kind of real business and they think the Bitcoin world is the same as it was when it was worth 1 cent.  If you listen to the interviews of the people starting up large scale business they scoff and the stuff you are saying.

In any case if you read this thread Bitcoin-Central seems to agree with what I am saying.  So all the people who have all these disagreements should talk to Theymos and TradeFortress, create your own utopian society, and you can transfer all your funds to the system TradeFortress runs out of his parent's house.

As for the people who started out with "stick it to the man," they have commercial that runs on the satellite radio 90's channel.  "Back then you raged Against the Machine ... Now You rage Against the Washing Machine."  The same thing happened in the 60's after Woodstock.  

Bitcoin is a protocol that has many uses and will disrupt many current technologies.  If you think it is going to change the entire world, that the whole world is going to switch over to Bitcoin, that governments and laws will somehow disappear, ... then you are living you life within a video game and not reality.

Maybe you should start a blog too? Sir Mircea Popescu runs a fairly interesting one. How about you show him who's got the biggest?

I'm fairly amused by David silence, though, he used to feed trolls better than that.

[sturle]

Sorry, but I couldn't care less about US funny-laws.  I keep to the laws of my own country, and know I won't get in trouble for that.

As I have already explained to you the EU has the same type of laws.

NO.  Read it again.  It says exactly what I claim, and the opposite of what you claim.

The law regulate business in Europe, not foreign companies in foreign countries doing business with people who happen to be Europeans.

[MPOE-PR]

My information comes from listening to the people who are actually setting up business, have employees, investors, etc. 

Which is why your "sources" include the Let's Talk Teatime Super Derpy Dork Hour.

If you listen to the interviews of the people starting up large scale business they scoff and the stuff you are saying.

Produce actual arguments or again, learn to stfu. This isn't a stage for your completely irrelevant and characteristically vague assertions piggybacked on the work of others. And no, nobody gives a shit about clueless newbs with pretensions to "starting up large scale businesses" scoffing, so they'd best be damned authoritative arguments.

Bitcoin is a protocol that has many uses and will disrupt many current technologies.  If you think it is going to change the entire world, that the whole world is going to switch over to Bitcoin, that governments and laws will somehow disappear, ... then you are living you life within a video game and not reality.

What's disappearing is the potential impact of idiocy such as yours.

[sturle]

Sorry, but I couldn't care less about US funny-laws.  I keep to the laws of my own country, and know I won't get in trouble for that.

As I have already explained to you the EU has the same type of laws.

NO.  Read it again.  It says exactly what I claim, and the opposite of what you claim.

The law regulate business in Europe, not foreign companies in foreign countries doing business with people who happen to be Europeans.

If a business in EU transfers money from a bank account of a US person then they are subject to US law for the transmission of the money.  The same is true if you switch EU and US.

Then please find a law supporting this. 

If I transfer money through my bank in Europe, the bank is my money transmission agent.  My bank isn't registered in the USSA either, it sends the money via SWIFT to another bank which is.  I and my bank are not bound by USSAnian funny-laws.  The end bank is, and the recipient is.

If the entity is doing this outside of the borders of the US then prosecutors can file an "In Rem" action and seize things like bank accounts and domain names.  I think this often gets abused by prosecutors but that does not change the fact that those laws exist.

Funds can only be seized in USSAnian banks and from USSAnians registrars, which is why I refuse to keep any money in banks which either have a legal presence in the USSA or default to using a bank with legal presence in the USSA as default intermediate when sending money abroad.  The first thing you should do when trying a new bank is to buy Cuban sigars.  If it works, it is OK.  If not, demand your money back and leave.

If you are in the EU and you sell something that is illegal is the US and send it to US customers you are breaking US law.  If you are outside the jurisdiction of the US they can stop the products at the border, seize US assets, or try to convince the originating country to outlaw what is being done.  Again, the same is true if you switch EU and US.

Look at me trying as hard as I can to care if what I do is illegal in North Korea, USSA, China or anywhere else outside of my own country.

[MPOE-PR]

I don't understand most of what you are talking about and I am not going to spend time trying to analyze it.  

So then get lost, you inconsiderate, stunted asshat. I'm sure the DMV or whoever has a nice long line you can rot in.

[davout]

As a matter of fact France has signed a cooperation treaty with the USG, three days ago, (not that this is in any way relevant or interesting).

We have some US-based customers that signed-up when our previous financial partner told us it was ok.
Our current financial partner doesn't want anything to have to do with US residents (US citizens residing in Europe are considered kosher though).

Bottom line, I don't care about FATCA, I let my financial partner care about it. And they seem to care.

What happens shortly is the following :
 - we collect payment addresses for all the accounts that we have to liquidate (
 - we pay their outstanding balances (converted USD + BTC) to their Bitcoin address
 - we wish them good luck in their future endeavours

There's some work on our end to make it happen, please bear with us while we come up with some dedicated interface.

[Goldenboy]

So did paymium steal all the money from the instawallet accounts and use the money to finance this exchange? Is this a ponzi scheme or are paymium going to pay us our instawallet claims? I hope paymium isn't a big scam! Please tell me how to resolve my instawallet claim! Please don't steal the money to pay for your exchange. I hope you guys get my claim payed. 

[MPOE-PR]

What the hell is this crazy stuff:

This is your clue that while you're mindlessly ranting and failing to understand bitcoin itself and your role within it, others are doing just fine. Without your "help".

I am going to be keeping my eye on this. 

You're going to monitor that which you fail to understand. For what purpose, future derping? Here's a few hints: understand first, monitor afterward, and in no case pretend that your shortcomings are some standard to which others must hold.

[Rassah]

Well, the Bitcoin1000 screwballs have checked in.  You are the kind of people who are making Bitcoin look ridiculous.  You set up some kind of charity (I assume it was not properly registered as such so the whole operation is probably illegal).  Then you set up a site filled with Bitcoin "wingnuts."  Instead of assisting charities to accept Bitcoin you demand they change their web site to your specifications.    Then the guy who "vets" these charities is a guy who runs around advocating braking into federal computer systems to steal the funds that were seized in the silk Road case.  Do you explain to these charities who exactly will be vetting them?

Boooo! WTF. We have been around for over two years, with zero lost or stolen funds, and full 100% transparency. And that "change their website to your specifications thing"" is precicely "change their website to be able to accept bitcoin donations," which we actually help them do. And guess how much we make on this illegal ridiculous scam? Nada. Just our volunteer work. So booooooooo! Hisssssss! Shame on you!


By the way, you keep saying that if an US bank transfers money from a US citizen, they have to follow so and so. But no bank actually does that. Money sent from US to EU are not transfered by EU exchanges, they are transfered by the US citizens from their US bank accounts to the EU exchanges. The EU exchanges could care less about the laws and regulations of whereverthef*ck the money they were sent came from. They didn't ask for it, and they didn't do the transfering.

[Rassah]

I like the part where you want complete anarchy and you don't want those who style themselves "court of law", "judge" or otherwise involved. .... Yet you want your copyright enforced.  Another classic bitcointalk.org moment.

http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.MPOE

Yeah, I gotta give that one to Milly, 4.3 is pretty retarded 

[MPOE-PR]

I like the part where you want complete anarchy and you don't want those who style themselves "court of law", "judge" or otherwise involved. .... Yet you want your copyright enforced.  Another classic bitcointalk.org moment.

http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.MPOE

Wait what? Who wants complete anarchy?! Get your shit straight, the fact that a certain well-made contract is under copyright has naught to do with the flailing machinations of rogue states.

[Rassah]

Also, I hope no charities that help disabled children come to you for vetting.

Sorry to disappoint you, but they already asked, were vetted, and were paid.

The "Bitcoins not Bombs" people say they want to end governments by using Bitcoin .... yet they want something done about sexual harassment at conferences.

This part doesn't require government. Just an established policy and willingness of conference organizers to enforce it.

[joris]

This part doesn't require government. Just an established policy and willingness of conference organizers to enforce it.

Aha, enforcing policy...

Government usually starts small in the most basic form of community. And off you go in the virtuous power circle, up up, up, towards big government!

[MPOE-PR]

You want no involvement of that nasty State ... until it is your property that is at issue.  Trace Mayer does the same thing.  He espouses all these freedoms and then put all these copyright threats on his page.  The "Bitcoins not Bombs" people say they want to end governments by using Bitcoin .... yet they want something done about sexual harassment at conferences. 

I don't know who you think you're talking to, but it'd seem you haven't done any of your required reading.

[torealise]

please, can you tell me, is this info actual today? "Bitcoin-Central, first exchange licensed to operate with a bank" ?
and, do you know, is there some bitcoin services that provide direct trnsactions with banks?
is there realy working Bitcoin credit/debit cards (VISA / MasterCard) that lets you deposit BTC on it and than withdraw any currency in any ATM that accept VISA / MasterCard?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

please, can you tell me, is this info actual today? "Bitcoin-Central, first exchange licensed to operate with a bank" ?
and, do you know, is there some bitcoin services that provide direct trnsactions with banks?
is there realy working Bitcoin credit/debit cards (VISA / MasterCard) that lets you deposit BTC on it and than withdraw any currency in any ATM that accept VISA / MasterCard?

Looks like your question wasn't that important to the Paymium thieves. BTW, they're no longer using Aqoba, opting to go with Lemon Way as their banking partner. Personally, I wouldn't attach any company I own to some entity with Lemon in its name but, perhaps, it's just me.

Also, I'm still owed 1,132 BTC that davout cleverly took outta InstaWallet and now has them residing in one of his personal wallets. It must be nice to only have to refund less than 1K wallets outta ~21K InstaWallet, keeping the pennies, nickles, dimes, quarters, halves, dollars, etc. for themselves. Must be some bonus perk we're not aware when one becomes a mod on BitcoinTalk.

[molecular]

Man . If i had known this existed in 2012  .. #hindsight

what existed?

why are you resurrecting this thread?