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Author Topic: Health and Religion  (Read 191360 times)
practicaldreamer
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November 21, 2016, 05:48:12 PM
 #761


Fuckin hell Coincube - why didn't you just post a link to William James' "Varieties of Religious Experience" and be done with it ? For someone who purports to be a doctor of medicine you seem to have a lot of time on your hands. I can't see too many junior doctors in the UK, even if they had the inclination for this shit, actually finding the time for it.

You are for real aren't you Coincube ?

Please don't be too hard on Coincube. I probably wouldn't have looked if all there was was a link. It was a very interesting article. Benefits to the social animal by socializing in religious atmosphere.

Cool

I take it you did not like the article practicaldreamer? I will admit I did not look too deeply into the data behind the article but it was written by a professor of epidemiology at Harvard so my assumption is that the data is reliable. Here is the educational background of the author if you want further info.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/tyler-vanderweele/

Education: Tyler VanderWeele Professor of Epidemiology

Ph.D. (Biostatistics) 2006, Harvard University
A.M. (Biostatistics) 2005, Harvard University
M.A. (Mathematics) 2005, University of Oxford
M.A. (Finance and Applied Economics) 2002, Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania
B.A. (Philosophy and Theology) 2000, University of Oxford
B.A. (Mathematics) 2000, University of Oxford

The topic of the article is the relationship between attending religious services and health so it is very much on topic for this thread.

You describe the good professors article as "this shit" so I am assuming you have some problem with the article independent of your kind concerns about my limited free time?

I wasn't questioning the article Coincube. You needn't have tried to add weight by appealing to academic authority. I know that religion has practical (in this instance health) benefits - it almost goes without saying. How else would it survive ?

I was more expressing scepticism over your own claimed academic background and professional qualifications in medicine. This scepticism has in no small way been fortified by :-
          a) your continued deference to the great Anonymint  [who, though he seems to have slain his demons somewhat of late (arguably), has historically shown himself to be not quite the full shilling to anyone with any kind of a sensitivity to these things]

      and  b) your signature - which is a link to Coincubes "highlights".

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November 21, 2016, 06:18:37 PM
 #762

That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.
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November 21, 2016, 07:35:54 PM
 #763

I wasn't questioning the article Coincube. You needn't have tried to add weight by appealing to academic authority. I know that religion has practical (in this instance health) benefits - it almost goes without saying. How else would it survive ?

I was more expressing scepticism over your own claimed academic background and professional qualifications in medicine. This scepticism has in no small way been fortified by :-
          a) your continued deference to the great Anonymint  [who, though he seems to have slain his demons somewhat of late (arguably), has historically shown himself to be not quite the full shilling to anyone with any kind of a sensitivity to these things]

      and  b) your signature - which is a link to Coincubes "highlights".

practicaldreamer my signature is simply a list of debates, essays and conversations that I have found interesting and believe others will enjoy reading. The vast majority of these are my arguments and positions.

There are a couple of highlights that were written by Anonymint and not me. These few are from the Economic Devastation topic as the thread has become too large for anyone to read.

I do not defer to Anonymint. In fact the lions share of my posts on this form involve me debating him on various topics. However, he is a smart if volatile individual. I agree with his medium term economic analysis so I linked to it. I hope you are correct when you say that he has slain his demons.

I have made no claims or appeal to personal authority in this thread and I claim no expertise on the interplay between health and religion. My professional background and qualifications are irrelevant. If I have given you the impression that I possess special knowledge on this topic I kindly ask you to discard that notion and judge the presented material on its merit alone.

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November 21, 2016, 11:07:57 PM
 #764

That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.

"People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying." they maybe don't prefer but they have to if they don't want that illness to get worse or die, and also it's known to work unlike using words to ask air to help you.
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November 22, 2016, 12:38:40 AM
 #765

That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.

"People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying." they maybe don't prefer but they have to if they don't want that illness to get worse or die, and also it's known to work unlike using words to ask air to help you.

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

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November 22, 2016, 10:55:06 AM
 #766

That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.

"People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying." they maybe don't prefer but they have to if they don't want that illness to get worse or die, and also it's known to work unlike using words to ask air to help you.

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

And what about the ones where people pray and nothing happens?

Or..... people don't pray and medical science cures?
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November 22, 2016, 05:06:06 PM
 #767

That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.

"People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying." they maybe don't prefer but they have to if they don't want that illness to get worse or die, and also it's known to work unlike using words to ask air to help you.

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

And what about the ones where people pray and nothing happens?

Or..... people don't pray and medical science cures?

Nobody knows that nothing happens.

God listens to all prayer. But if the person doesn't believe in God, the pray isn't the same as it is for those who believe.

In addition, God answers the prayer according to what is really being prayed. Most people don't know what they are really asking for. For example.

A person might pray for a million dollars, but doesn't get it. Why not? His real prayer was for security in life. A million might make him vulnerable to all the con artists out to get his money. So, he is formally asking for just the opposite of what he is really praying for in his heart. Rather, this praying person gets spiritual peace from God instead, because that is what he was really asking for.

Cool

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November 22, 2016, 05:20:37 PM
 #768

Nobody knows that nothing happens.

God listens to all prayer. But if the person doesn't believe in God, the pray isn't the same as it is for those who believe.

In addition, God answers the prayer according to what is really being prayed. Most people don't know what they are really asking for. For example.

A person might pray for a million dollars, but doesn't get it. Why not? His real prayer was for security in life. A million might make him vulnerable to all the con artists out to get his money. So, he is formally asking for just the opposite of what he is really praying for in his heart. Rather, this praying person gets spiritual peace from God instead, because that is what he was really asking for.

Cool

As I wrote you in a previous post, my mother died by cancer at 69. She was a believer, she was utterly religious and what you could call an "perfect christian". She attended the mass every sunday, worked for the local church and so on. I'm sure she prayed until her last breath but she eventually died.

I don't want to start a new back-to-back game of replies with you, but I would like to know where your god was when she was praying him to save her life, and what was his plan for her. Eternal afterlife? Jesus salvation? Mhmm...  Undecided

Isn't simpler telling that god doesn't exists, and all you religious people are delusional? Seems way more realistic.

I hate everyone, equally.
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November 22, 2016, 05:57:09 PM
 #769

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

Sometimes, the human body is able to fight back the viruses and bacteria which causes the diseases. This immunity varies from person to person. It has nothing to do with prayer or religious belief.

 
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November 22, 2016, 08:46:08 PM
 #770

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

Sometimes, the human body is able to fight back the viruses and bacteria which causes the diseases. This immunity varies from person to person. It has nothing to do with prayer or religious belief.
I do believe that religion is harmful to health. A lot of religious tenets aimed at the fact that the best medicine is prayer. This leads to the fact that people later go to the doctor and die.

.
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November 23, 2016, 03:17:41 AM
 #771


As I wrote you in a previous post, my mother died by cancer at 69. She was a believer, she was utterly religious and what you could call an "perfect christian". She attended the mass every sunday, worked for the local church and so on. I'm sure she prayed until her last breath but she eventually died.

I don't want to start a new back-to-back game of replies with you, but I would like to know where your god was when she was praying him to save her life, and what was his plan for her. Eternal afterlife? Jesus salvation? Mhmm...  Undecided

Isn't simpler telling that god doesn't exists, and all you religious people are delusional? Seems way more realistic.

I can relate to this also MiSKLaCH. I lost my father to cancer when he was 64. He too was a believer but he did not regularly attend church. Did his prayers save his life? Obviously not. The best I can hope for is they gave him peace when he needed it.
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November 23, 2016, 05:24:26 AM
 #772


As I wrote you in a previous post, my mother died by cancer at 69. She was a believer, she was utterly religious and what you could call an "perfect christian". She attended the mass every sunday, worked for the local church and so on. I'm sure she prayed until her last breath but she eventually died.

I don't want to start a new back-to-back game of replies with you, but I would like to know where your god was when she was praying him to save her life, and what was his plan for her. Eternal afterlife? Jesus salvation? Mhmm...  Undecided

Isn't simpler telling that god doesn't exists, and all you religious people are delusional? Seems way more realistic.

I can relate to this also MiSKLaCH. I lost my father to cancer when he was 64. He too was a believer but he did not regularly attend church. Did his prayers save his life? Obviously not. The best I can hope for is they gave him peace when he needed it.

If your father truly was a believer, God answered his prayers. Your father is praising God in Paradise right now, as he awaits the coming resurrection where he will be reunited with his body, which will be in a glorified state, then.

Come into faith, so that you can have a glorious resurrection, as well. If you don't... oh well. Your dad won't miss you in Heaven. He will be way too busy enjoying the wonders of a God Who is so immensely great that the whole universe is as nothing in His presence.

Cool

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November 23, 2016, 05:27:22 AM
 #773

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

Sometimes, the human body is able to fight back the viruses and bacteria which causes the diseases. This immunity varies from person to person. It has nothing to do with prayer or religious belief.
I do believe that religion is harmful to health. A lot of religious tenets aimed at the fact that the best medicine is prayer. This leads to the fact that people later go to the doctor and die.

This leads to the fact that if they had not gone to the doctor, they probably would have lived longer. Read the articles at Natural News.

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
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November 23, 2016, 05:28:34 AM
 #774

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

Sometimes, the human body is able to fight back the viruses and bacteria which causes the diseases. This immunity varies from person to person. It has nothing to do with prayer or religious belief.

However, you don't know that. You have no proof, and there is a whole lot of evidence that says you are wrong.

Cool

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November 23, 2016, 05:31:41 AM
 #775

Nobody knows that nothing happens.

God listens to all prayer. But if the person doesn't believe in God, the pray isn't the same as it is for those who believe.

In addition, God answers the prayer according to what is really being prayed. Most people don't know what they are really asking for. For example.

A person might pray for a million dollars, but doesn't get it. Why not? His real prayer was for security in life. A million might make him vulnerable to all the con artists out to get his money. So, he is formally asking for just the opposite of what he is really praying for in his heart. Rather, this praying person gets spiritual peace from God instead, because that is what he was really asking for.

Cool

As I wrote you in a previous post, my mother died by cancer at 69. She was a believer, she was utterly religious and what you could call an "perfect christian". She attended the mass every sunday, worked for the local church and so on. I'm sure she prayed until her last breath but she eventually died.

I don't want to start a new back-to-back game of replies with you, but I would like to know where your god was when she was praying him to save her life, and what was his plan for her. Eternal afterlife? Jesus salvation? Mhmm...  Undecided

Isn't simpler telling that god doesn't exists, and all you religious people are delusional? Seems way more realistic.

Sorry to hear about your mom. She is probably in Paradise, right now, enjoying God and His wonders, and awaiting the time when she will be reunited with her body in the resurrection. Her body will be changed, then, so that it is like a super body. This will be the same for all other believers when they rise in the resurrection.

Turn to God, or you will miss the joys and glories of Heaven.

Cool

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November 23, 2016, 07:10:26 AM
 #776

This leads to the fact that if they had not gone to the doctor, they probably would have lived longer. Read the articles at Natural News.

Cool

There are tribal societies in South America and Oceania, which are isolated from the civilization. There is no modern medicine available to these people. Yet, the average life-expectancy is somewhere around 25 years. Compare that to the life expectancy of 85 years in Japan. Still you believe that modern medicine causes a decrease in the life expectancy?

 
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TooQik
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November 23, 2016, 07:56:26 AM
 #777


As I wrote you in a previous post, my mother died by cancer at 69. She was a believer, she was utterly religious and what you could call an "perfect christian". She attended the mass every sunday, worked for the local church and so on. I'm sure she prayed until her last breath but she eventually died.

I don't want to start a new back-to-back game of replies with you, but I would like to know where your god was when she was praying him to save her life, and what was his plan for her. Eternal afterlife? Jesus salvation? Mhmm...  Undecided

Isn't simpler telling that god doesn't exists, and all you religious people are delusional? Seems way more realistic.

I can relate to this also MiSKLaCH. I lost my father to cancer when he was 64. He too was a believer but he did not regularly attend church. Did his prayers save his life? Obviously not. The best I can hope for is they gave him peace when he needed it.

If your father truly was a believer, God answered his prayers. Your father is praising God in Paradise right now, as he awaits the coming resurrection where he will be reunited with his body, which will be in a glorified state, then.

Come into faith, so that you can have a glorious resurrection, as well. If you don't... oh well. Your dad won't miss you in Heaven. He will be way too busy enjoying the wonders of a God Who is so immensely great that the whole universe is as nothing in His presence.

Cool

Give it a rest would you. You are the very embodiment of everything I dislike about religion.

I can imagine you'll live a long and healthy life though, not because of your faith but purely because your god doesn't even want you in his presence you're so annoying.
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November 23, 2016, 09:04:43 AM
 #778

That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.

"People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying." they maybe don't prefer but they have to if they don't want that illness to get worse or die, and also it's known to work unlike using words to ask air to help you.

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

And what about the ones where people pray and nothing happens?

Or..... people don't pray and medical science cures?

Nobody knows that nothing happens.

God listens to all prayer. But if the person doesn't believe in God, the pray isn't the same as it is for those who believe.

In addition, God answers the prayer according to what is really being prayed. Most people don't know what they are really asking for. For example.

A person might pray for a million dollars, but doesn't get it. Why not? His real prayer was for security in life. A million might make him vulnerable to all the con artists out to get his money. So, he is formally asking for just the opposite of what he is really praying for in his heart. Rather, this praying person gets spiritual peace from God instead, because that is what he was really asking for.

Cool

So when poor little altar boys are being raped by priests and they are preying for their god to make it stop..... what does your god say to them?

"No son, bend over and take it.... there is reason I am making this happen"

BADecker you are preaching to people who have awoken and discovered truth. I suggest that you open your mind to truth instead of an imaginary life.
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November 23, 2016, 02:14:31 PM
 #779

That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.

"People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying." they maybe don't prefer but they have to if they don't want that illness to get worse or die, and also it's known to work unlike using words to ask air to help you.

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

And what about the ones where people pray and nothing happens?

Or..... people don't pray and medical science cures?

Nobody knows that nothing happens.

God listens to all prayer. But if the person doesn't believe in God, the pray isn't the same as it is for those who believe.

In addition, God answers the prayer according to what is really being prayed. Most people don't know what they are really asking for. For example.

A person might pray for a million dollars, but doesn't get it. Why not? His real prayer was for security in life. A million might make him vulnerable to all the con artists out to get his money. So, he is formally asking for just the opposite of what he is really praying for in his heart. Rather, this praying person gets spiritual peace from God instead, because that is what he was really asking for.

Cool

So when poor little altar boys are being raped by priests and they are preying for their god to make it stop..... what does your god say to them?

"No son, bend over and take it.... there is reason I am making this happen"

BADecker you are preaching to people who have awoken and discovered truth. I suggest that you open your mind to truth instead of an imaginary life.

Why do you think that I am preaching? Are you not able to understand science, even a little? Don't you realize that all religion revolves around true science? Science is logic, and it comes from observation of what exists. People are healthier when they live the religious life they were designed for. Wake up and look at science. It shows that people are religion-minded creatures.

Cool

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November 24, 2016, 09:16:28 AM
 #780

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Why do you think that I am preaching? Are you not able to understand science, even a little? Don't you realize that all religion revolves around true science? Science is logic, and it comes from observation of what exists. People are healthier when they live the religious life they were designed for. Wake up and look at science. It shows that people are religion-minded creatures.

Cool

Because the definition of "Preach" is: "publicly proclaim or teach (a religious message or belief)".
Remove any context of religion and you could have a decent conversation. But you seem to only be able to discuss your skewed ideas which have been twisted by a religious aspect to become completely irrelevant.
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