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Tyrantt
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December 03, 2016, 02:06:21 AM
 #821



WHEN ATHEISTS ARE ANGRY AT GOD
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2011/01/when-atheists-are-angry-at-god

Quote from: Joe Carter
I’ve shaken my fist in anger at stalled cars, storm clouds, and incompetent meteorologists. I’ve even, on one terrible day that included a dead alternator, a blaring blaring tornado-warning siren, and a horrifically wrong weather forecast, cursed all three at once. I’ve fumed at furniture, cussed at crossing guards, and held a grudge against Gun Barrel City, Texas. I’ve been mad at just about anything you can imagine.

Except unicorns. I’ve never been angry at unicorns.

It’s unlikely you’ve ever been angry at unicorns either. We can become incensed by objects and creatures both animate and inanimate. We can even, in a limited sense, be bothered by the fanciful characters in books and dreams. But creatures like unicorns that don’t exist—that we truly believe not to exist—tend not to raise our ire. We certainly don’t blame the one-horned creatures for our problems.

The one social group that takes exception to this rule is atheists. They claim to believe that God does not exist and yet, according to empirical studies, tend to be the people most angry at him.

A new set of studies in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology finds that atheists and agnostics report anger toward God either in the past or anger focused on a hypothetical image of what they imagine God must be like. Julie Exline, a psychologist at Case Western Reserve University and the lead author of this recent study, has examined other data on this subject with identical results. Exline explains that her interest was first piqued when an early study of anger toward God revealed a counterintuitive finding: Those who reported no belief in God reported more grudges toward him than believers.

At first glance, this finding seemed to reflect an error. How could people be angry with God if they did not believe in God? Reanalyses of a second dataset revealed similar patterns: Those who endorsed their religious beliefs as “atheist/agnostic” or “none/unsure” reported more anger toward God than those who reported a religious affiliation.

Exline notes that the findings raised questions of whether anger might actually affect belief in God’s existence, an idea consistent with social science’s previous clinical findings on “emotional atheism.”

...

The most striking finding was that when Exline looked only at subjects who reported a drop in religious belief, their faith was least likely to recover if anger toward God was the cause of their loss of belief. In other words, anger toward God may not only lead people to atheism but give them a reason to cling to their disbelief.

...

Many atheists do, of course, proceed to their denial of God based solely on rational justifications. That is why evidentialist and philosophical approaches to apologetics will always be necessary. But I'm beginning to suspect that emotional atheism is far more common than many realize. We need a new apologetic approach that takes into account that the ordinary pain and sufferings of life leads more people away from God than a library full of anti-theist books. Focusing solely on the irate sputterings of the imperfectly intellectual New Atheists may blind us to the anger and suffering that is adding new nonbelievers to their ranks.

None of the serious atheists are angry at god since they dont believe in god therefore we cant be angry at one. We're just amused at peoples stupidity in 21st century.



“Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.” 

-George Carlin
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December 03, 2016, 07:39:15 AM
 #822



WHEN ATHEISTS ARE ANGRY AT GOD
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2011/01/when-atheists-are-angry-at-god

Quote from: Joe Carter
I’ve shaken my fist in anger at stalled cars, storm clouds, and incompetent meteorologists. I’ve even, on one terrible day that included a dead alternator, a blaring blaring tornado-warning siren, and a horrifically wrong weather forecast, cursed all three at once. I’ve fumed at furniture, cussed at crossing guards, and held a grudge against Gun Barrel City, Texas. I’ve been mad at just about anything you can imagine.

Except unicorns. I’ve never been angry at unicorns.

It’s unlikely you’ve ever been angry at unicorns either. We can become incensed by objects and creatures both animate and inanimate. We can even, in a limited sense, be bothered by the fanciful characters in books and dreams. But creatures like unicorns that don’t exist—that we truly believe not to exist—tend not to raise our ire. We certainly don’t blame the one-horned creatures for our problems.

The one social group that takes exception to this rule is atheists. They claim to believe that God does not exist and yet, according to empirical studies, tend to be the people most angry at him.

A new set of studies in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology finds that atheists and agnostics report anger toward God either in the past or anger focused on a hypothetical image of what they imagine God must be like. Julie Exline, a psychologist at Case Western Reserve University and the lead author of this recent study, has examined other data on this subject with identical results. Exline explains that her interest was first piqued when an early study of anger toward God revealed a counterintuitive finding: Those who reported no belief in God reported more grudges toward him than believers.

At first glance, this finding seemed to reflect an error. How could people be angry with God if they did not believe in God? Reanalyses of a second dataset revealed similar patterns: Those who endorsed their religious beliefs as “atheist/agnostic” or “none/unsure” reported more anger toward God than those who reported a religious affiliation.

Exline notes that the findings raised questions of whether anger might actually affect belief in God’s existence, an idea consistent with social science’s previous clinical findings on “emotional atheism.”

...

The most striking finding was that when Exline looked only at subjects who reported a drop in religious belief, their faith was least likely to recover if anger toward God was the cause of their loss of belief. In other words, anger toward God may not only lead people to atheism but give them a reason to cling to their disbelief.

...

Many atheists do, of course, proceed to their denial of God based solely on rational justifications. That is why evidentialist and philosophical approaches to apologetics will always be necessary. But I'm beginning to suspect that emotional atheism is far more common than many realize. We need a new apologetic approach that takes into account that the ordinary pain and sufferings of life leads more people away from God than a library full of anti-theist books. Focusing solely on the irate sputterings of the imperfectly intellectual New Atheists may blind us to the anger and suffering that is adding new nonbelievers to their ranks.

None of the serious atheists are angry at god since they dont believe in god therefore we cant be angry at one. We're just amused at peoples stupidity in 21st century.



“Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.” 

-George Carlin

George Carlin is dead. God is alive forever. Proof of God:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
stats
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December 03, 2016, 10:46:26 AM
 #823



WHEN ATHEISTS ARE ANGRY AT GOD
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2011/01/when-atheists-are-angry-at-god

Quote from: Joe Carter
I’ve shaken my fist in anger at stalled cars, storm clouds, and incompetent meteorologists. I’ve even, on one terrible day that included a dead alternator, a blaring blaring tornado-warning siren, and a horrifically wrong weather forecast, cursed all three at once. I’ve fumed at furniture, cussed at crossing guards, and held a grudge against Gun Barrel City, Texas. I’ve been mad at just about anything you can imagine.

Except unicorns. I’ve never been angry at unicorns.

It’s unlikely you’ve ever been angry at unicorns either. We can become incensed by objects and creatures both animate and inanimate. We can even, in a limited sense, be bothered by the fanciful characters in books and dreams. But creatures like unicorns that don’t exist—that we truly believe not to exist—tend not to raise our ire. We certainly don’t blame the one-horned creatures for our problems.

The one social group that takes exception to this rule is atheists. They claim to believe that God does not exist and yet, according to empirical studies, tend to be the people most angry at him.

A new set of studies in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology finds that atheists and agnostics report anger toward God either in the past or anger focused on a hypothetical image of what they imagine God must be like. Julie Exline, a psychologist at Case Western Reserve University and the lead author of this recent study, has examined other data on this subject with identical results. Exline explains that her interest was first piqued when an early study of anger toward God revealed a counterintuitive finding: Those who reported no belief in God reported more grudges toward him than believers.

At first glance, this finding seemed to reflect an error. How could people be angry with God if they did not believe in God? Reanalyses of a second dataset revealed similar patterns: Those who endorsed their religious beliefs as “atheist/agnostic” or “none/unsure” reported more anger toward God than those who reported a religious affiliation.

Exline notes that the findings raised questions of whether anger might actually affect belief in God’s existence, an idea consistent with social science’s previous clinical findings on “emotional atheism.”

...

The most striking finding was that when Exline looked only at subjects who reported a drop in religious belief, their faith was least likely to recover if anger toward God was the cause of their loss of belief. In other words, anger toward God may not only lead people to atheism but give them a reason to cling to their disbelief.

...

Many atheists do, of course, proceed to their denial of God based solely on rational justifications. That is why evidentialist and philosophical approaches to apologetics will always be necessary. But I'm beginning to suspect that emotional atheism is far more common than many realize. We need a new apologetic approach that takes into account that the ordinary pain and sufferings of life leads more people away from God than a library full of anti-theist books. Focusing solely on the irate sputterings of the imperfectly intellectual New Atheists may blind us to the anger and suffering that is adding new nonbelievers to their ranks.

None of the serious atheists are angry at god since they dont believe in god therefore we cant be angry at one. We're just amused at peoples stupidity in 21st century.



“Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.” 

-George Carlin

George Carlin is dead. God is alive forever. Proof of God:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380

Cool

Your God is DEAD! Your scriptures say he died and rose again on the 3rd day.

That means he is a Zombie!
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December 03, 2016, 02:27:48 PM
 #824



WHEN ATHEISTS ARE ANGRY AT GOD
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2011/01/when-atheists-are-angry-at-god

Quote from: Joe Carter
I’ve shaken my fist in anger at stalled cars, storm clouds, and incompetent meteorologists. I’ve even, on one terrible day that included a dead alternator, a blaring blaring tornado-warning siren, and a horrifically wrong weather forecast, cursed all three at once. I’ve fumed at furniture, cussed at crossing guards, and held a grudge against Gun Barrel City, Texas. I’ve been mad at just about anything you can imagine.

Except unicorns. I’ve never been angry at unicorns.

It’s unlikely you’ve ever been angry at unicorns either. We can become incensed by objects and creatures both animate and inanimate. We can even, in a limited sense, be bothered by the fanciful characters in books and dreams. But creatures like unicorns that don’t exist—that we truly believe not to exist—tend not to raise our ire. We certainly don’t blame the one-horned creatures for our problems.

The one social group that takes exception to this rule is atheists. They claim to believe that God does not exist and yet, according to empirical studies, tend to be the people most angry at him.

A new set of studies in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology finds that atheists and agnostics report anger toward God either in the past or anger focused on a hypothetical image of what they imagine God must be like. Julie Exline, a psychologist at Case Western Reserve University and the lead author of this recent study, has examined other data on this subject with identical results. Exline explains that her interest was first piqued when an early study of anger toward God revealed a counterintuitive finding: Those who reported no belief in God reported more grudges toward him than believers.

At first glance, this finding seemed to reflect an error. How could people be angry with God if they did not believe in God? Reanalyses of a second dataset revealed similar patterns: Those who endorsed their religious beliefs as “atheist/agnostic” or “none/unsure” reported more anger toward God than those who reported a religious affiliation.

Exline notes that the findings raised questions of whether anger might actually affect belief in God’s existence, an idea consistent with social science’s previous clinical findings on “emotional atheism.”

...

The most striking finding was that when Exline looked only at subjects who reported a drop in religious belief, their faith was least likely to recover if anger toward God was the cause of their loss of belief. In other words, anger toward God may not only lead people to atheism but give them a reason to cling to their disbelief.

...

Many atheists do, of course, proceed to their denial of God based solely on rational justifications. That is why evidentialist and philosophical approaches to apologetics will always be necessary. But I'm beginning to suspect that emotional atheism is far more common than many realize. We need a new apologetic approach that takes into account that the ordinary pain and sufferings of life leads more people away from God than a library full of anti-theist books. Focusing solely on the irate sputterings of the imperfectly intellectual New Atheists may blind us to the anger and suffering that is adding new nonbelievers to their ranks.

None of the serious atheists are angry at god since they dont believe in god therefore we cant be angry at one. We're just amused at peoples stupidity in 21st century.



“Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.” 

-George Carlin

George Carlin is dead. God is alive forever. Proof of God:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380

Cool

Your God is DEAD! Your scriptures say he died and rose again on the 3rd day.

That means he is a Zombie!

Well, what it really means is that God has complete control over life and death.

It is so easy to simply accept God and Jesus salvation. Don't waste any more time. Time is running out for all of us. And if you aren't found in God through Jesus salvation, you will miss out on the glories and joys of Heaven.

Turn, now, while you still have time.

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
TooQik
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December 04, 2016, 12:36:37 AM
 #825

None of the serious atheists are angry at god since they dont believe in god therefore we cant be angry at one. We're just amused at peoples stupidity in 21st century.



“Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.” 

-George Carlin

I like this quote.  Grin
BADecker
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December 04, 2016, 01:36:03 AM
 #826

None of the serious atheists are angry at god since they dont believe in god therefore we cant be angry at one. We're just amused at peoples stupidity in 21st century.



“Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.” 

-George Carlin

I like this quote.  Grin

George Carlin did, too, back then...



Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
CoinCube
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December 04, 2016, 01:53:04 AM
 #827



God cannot be grasped by the mind. If he could be grasped, he would not be God.

—Evagrius of Pontus (d. 399)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evagrius_Ponticus
Quote
Evagrius the Solitary (345-399 AD), was a Christian monk and ascetic. One of the most influential theologians in the late fourth-century

The most prominent feature of his research was a system of categorizing various forms of temptation. He developed a comprehensive list in AD 375 of eight evil thoughts (λoγισμoι), or eight terrible temptations, from which all sinful behavior springs. This list was intended to serve a diagnostic purpose: to help readers identify the process of temptation, their own strengths and weaknesses, and the remedies available for overcoming temptation.

The eight patterns of evil thought are gluttony, greed, sloth, sorrow, lust, anger, vainglory, and pride.

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December 04, 2016, 02:32:23 AM
Last edit: December 04, 2016, 02:46:55 AM by stats
 #828


Turn, now, while you still have time.

Cool

See, you even agree that your God is a Zombie. You want me to turn.

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December 04, 2016, 03:32:19 AM
 #829


The Scandanavian Sceptic (or Why Atheism Is a Belief System)
http://www.rzim.eu/the-scandanavian-sceptic-or-why-atheism-is-a-belief-system

By Andy Bannister:

“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” my friend suddenly declared from across the coffee shop table. He took a sip of espresso and stared intently at me, clearly awaiting a response. I paused, my cinnamon roll halfway to my mouth, as I digested what he’d just said.

“Pardon?”

“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” he repeated. “I think it’s just a political conspiracy, designed to motivate other European citizens to work harder. All that talk of the best health care system, the highest standard of living, of tall and beautiful people. It sounds like a myth and I’m not buying it. I don’t believe in Sweden.”

I stared at my friend silently for a moment, allowing the sounds of the coffee shop to drift over us as I pondered. In the background, the radio began playing ‘Dancing Queen’ by Abba.

“What do you mean, ‘You don’t believe in Sweden’?” I finally replied. “That’s insane. If Sweden doesn’t exist, how do you explain IKEA furniture, or the Swedish chef on The Muppet Show, or what glues Norway to Finland? That’s a staggering claim! What’s your evidence?”

“What do you mean ‘evidence’?” he asked.

“Evidence,” I said. “You must have more than just a hunch but some pretty impressive evidence for your belief. I know Sweden only has 9.5 million inhabitants, but you can’t simply deny outright that it exists!”

“Aha,” said my friend sagely, “I see your confusion. You think that my denial of Sweden is a belief. But it’s simply a non-belief and so I don’t need to give evidence for it.”

“Come again?” I said.


“Yes,” he continued, warming to his theme, “I don’t have to provide evidence for my non-belief in Atlantis, El Dorado, or Shangri-La and nor do I need to do so for my non-belief in Sweden. You see I’m not making a claim of any kind—quite the opposite: I’m claiming nothing, I’m merely rejecting one of your beliefs—your belief in Sweden.”

That story was, of course, entirely fictional but the response that I described from my friend concerning his Scandinavian scepticism does have some real world parallels, especially in the way that many contemporary atheists describe their non-belief in God. As one atheist put it recently: “I don’t believe in God and I don’t need to justify this, just as I don’t need to give reasons for my non-belief in the tooth fairy or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.” The late New Atheist writer, Christopher Hitchens, put it even more succinctly when he wrote:

"Our belief is not a belief.[1]"

In recent weeks, the merry bunch of atheists who like to hang out on my Twitter feed have posted similar examples, my favourite being:

Atheism isn’t a claim. It’s just non-belief in the claim “There is a god”.

Since this idea is heard increasingly frequently, often when the atheist making it is asked to give reasons or evidence for their position, it’s worth taking the time to briefly explore six problems with the idea that atheism is not a claim or a belief—and that to argue otherwise is to place oneself on the same level as my Sweden-denying friend.

Proving Too Much

The first problem is that the statement “atheism is just non-belief in God” proves too much. What do I mean? Well, on this definition my cat is an atheist, because it does not believe in God. (I sometimes suspect cats believe they are God, but that’s another story entirely.[2]) Likewise potatoes and small rocks are also atheists, because they, too, do not possess a belief in a deity of any kind.

When I have pointed this out to atheists, I usually receive a response along these lines: “But a potato can’t believe anything”. To which I reply: “So you’re now saying that atheism is the lack of belief in God by a creature that has the ability to form beliefs?” This is a different claim entirely—indeed, it’s a positive claim. The atheist is now claiming to believe that the external world really exists (thus she is rejecting metaphysical idealism), that other minds exist, that the human mind can form beliefs, and that our cognitive faculties are broadly reliable.[3] Each of those is a hotly debated area in philosophy.

Suddenly what looked a simple statement of non-belief (“I don’t believe in God”) has sprouted a whole series of positive claims, popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm. I have not yet encountered an atheist who believes that positive claims do not need to be argued for (indeed, atheists are fond of crying ‘Evidence!’ whenever confronted with a religious believer) and so it is the atheist’s job to give evidence for each of the philosophical positions they are encamped on. If they are not willing to do the hard reasoning, well, then, they can take their place alongside the cat, the rock, and the potato.

Neither True, Nor False, But Meaningless

A further drastic problem arises if the atheist wishes to claim that his statement “there is no God” is not a claim or a belief—if it isn’t, then it cannot be true or false. The problem is that only claims can be true or false. It makes perfect sense to ask whether a claim like “It is raining today” or “The Maple Leafs lost again” is true or false.[4] On the other hand, it is meaningless to ask whether the colour blue, a small off-duty Czechoslovakian traffic warden, or the word ‘Wibble’ are true—they are not claims and thus cannot possess a truth value.

So here’s the problem for the atheist. If atheism is not a claim of any kind, then it is simply meaningless. On the other hand, if the atheist wishes to claim that his atheism is true, then that must mean that atheism is a claim, and claims need to be defended, evidence provided and reasons given. If atheists wish to join in the conversation and the debate—and I believe that they deserve their seat at the table of ideas as much as any other worldview—then they must recognise their belief for what it is and start behaving accordingly.

Belief Leads to Action

A third problem with the idea that atheism is not a claim or belief, but merely the absence of belief in God, is that absences possess no causative power. If I drop a sledgehammer on my foot, it will cause pain. Touching the screen on your iPod may cause an Abba track to play through your headphones. But a non-existent sledgehammer or non-existent iPod causes nothing (in the case of Abba songs, much to the relief of lovers of music everywhere).
When it comes to beliefs, much the same applies. Non-belief in the tooth fairy does not cause action (it might arguably cause non-action, such as not putting your teeth under the pillow when they fall out.[5]) For something to cause an action, it has to be a positive belief, an actual claim.

So what about atheism? It doesn’t take a lot of searching to quickly discover that atheism does indeed cause actions. For example, many Internet-dwelling atheists read sceptical websites, edit Wikipedia articles, frequent atheist discussion forums, and post anti-religious sound bites on Twitter. These are all actions, caused, one would imagine, by their atheism. Likewise, it was his atheism that caused Richard Dawkins to write his best-selling book The God Delusion and, presumably, atheism that led many enthusiastic young sceptics to buy it, causing if not much rejoicing in heaven, certainly much celebration in the North Oxford branch of whoever Dawkins banks with. For a non-belief, a non-thing, atheism looks rather busy and active and so we must be suspicious of anybody telling us atheism is nothing.

Ideas Have Consequences

A fourth hallmark of an actual belief or claim is that it has entailments, consequences that flow from holding or stating it. For example, denying that Sweden exists entails the need to find a new source of cheap pine furniture, meatballs and gravad lax.[6] It also has some pretty drastic consequences for geography, requiring a redrawing of the map of Northern Europe as well as implications for politics, history, linguistics and the compilers of “Greatest Hits of the 1970s” CDs.

So what about atheism? Does the denial of God have any entailments? Yes, it does: take just one example—the concept of human rights. Modern human rights theory is based on the Judeo-Christian idea that human beings are of tremendous value and worth, because they are made in the image of God. Reject God and suddenly you have to start again, explaining why one particular creature, thrown up by the forces of time, chance and natural selection mixing and chopping atoms and chemicals for several billion years possesses inalienable rights, whereas amoeba, aardvarks and eggplants do not. Many philosophers and thinkers recognise the problem and are honest enough to admit if you dismiss God, you lose many other things, too. Listen to these words from atheist Llewelyn Powys:

"It is not only belief in God that must be abandoned, not only all hope of life after death, but all trust in an ordained moral order … We must be prepared to take our bearings without a compass and with the slippery deck of our life-vessel sliding away under our feet. Dogmatic nihilists, profoundly sceptical of all good, we are put to our resources like shipwrecked seamen. We have no sense of direction, and recognise without dispute that all beyond the margin of our own scant moment is lost.[7]"

If Powys is right—and other atheists, including Friedrich Nietzsche, Bertrand Russell and, more recently, John Gray have argued similarly—then atheism has some entailments.[8] But if it does, if denying God does indeed cause us to “throw away the compass” with Powys, to “wipe away the horizon” with Nietzsche,[9] or to embrace “unyielding despair” with Russell,[10] then, ipso facto, atheism is a belief because it has consequences.

Beliefs Attract Beliefs

A fifth hallmark of a belief is that it attracts other beliefs to it, in the same way that a planet draws moons into its orbit. For example, because of their beliefs about God and about Jesus Christ, most Christians have related beliefs—they believe (or should do) in human rights, in the limited ability of human progress, in justice, and in absolute moral values and duties. And so the list goes on. Likewise my Scandinavian sceptic believed in a great global conspiracy designed to prop up the myth of Sweden. Beliefs attract beliefs.

So, again, we can ask: what about atheism? Does it stand alone, stark, naked and proud—or does it attract other beliefs to it? Once again, it’s easy to see that it does. Most atheists believe in naturalism, the worldview that says that only material things exist. Many also believe in scientism, the view that science can answer any and all questions about both the natural world and the human condition. And the list goes on and on. That most atheists believe these things is not random: it’s driven by their atheism. If you believe in God, you won’t believe that physics, chemistry and biology can explain everything. If you disbelieve in God, you’re likely to pounce on materialism as the best way to keep the divine foot out of the door.

Given these additional beliefs that cluster around atheism, we’re forced to ask how a non-belief, a non-claim, a non-thing could have such gravitational force. One of the ways that scientists have in the past detected distant planets, too remote to see by telescope, is by their gravitational effect, often seen as a ‘wobble’ in the orbit of their parent stars. In the same way, the tendency of atheism to draw other beliefs into its orbit is powerful evidence that it is a belief.
I Disbelieve, Therefore I Am

There is one final powerful piece of evidence that atheism is a belief and that is its tendency to act as an identity marker. Many people self-describe as atheists, in a way that non-believers in the tooth fairy, Atlantis or Santa Claus do not. I have never, for example, introduced myself at a party as an “Atoothfairyian” and I have no plans to start doing so. But atheists on the other hand do use their non-belief in God as an identity marker. They proudly write ‘atheist’ or ‘free thinker’ in their social media profiles and the more zealously enthusiastic change their profile pictures to little icons of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Furthermore, atheists show a tendency to gather together in communities centred around their atheism. For example, they hang out online at places like RichardDawkins.Net in order to beat up on believers and remind one another how cool it is to be an atheist. They attend conferences and seminars, they buy books written by atheist gurus like Christopher Hitchens or Sam Harris,[11] they have creeds and accuse those who disagree with them of heresy.[12]They are even starting churches. I’m not making this up—in London, England a group of atheists have launched ‘The Sunday Service’ where every week, hundreds of people gather in a deconsecrated Anglican church to sing secular songs (like Stevie Wonder’s ‘Superstition’) and hear messages on everything from science to the importance of volunteering. They then sit around and enjoy coffee and biscuits.[13]

Quite how a non-belief, a non-claim, a non-thing has performed so well as an identity marker and as the kernel of community is mystifying. The much simpler suggestion is that atheism is a belief and, just like other beliefs, ranging from the political to the religious, can indeed form part of a person or a community’s identity. Atheism looks like a belief, functions like a belief and behaves like a belief—in short: it is a belief.

But can we go further than this? Could some forms of atheism even be described as a religion? Many scholars think that they can, especially the ‘New Atheist’ form of irreligion that has proven so popular of late. Listen to these words from Stephen Prothero of Boston University:

"Atheism is a religion of sorts, or can be. Many atheists are quite religious, holding their views about God with the conviction of zealots and evangelizing with verve … It stands at the center of their lives, defining who they are, how they think, and with whom they associate. The question of God is never far from their minds.[14]"

Can atheism really be described as a religion? I believe so. You see, simple disbelief in God does not make one non-religious. As Stephen Prothero points out, plenty of religious people don’t believe in God, including many adherents of Buddhism, Confucianism and some forms of Judaism.[15] The key is what we mean by the word ‘religion’, something scholars have debated for decades. A useful definition was offered by sociologist Émile Durkheim, who defined religion as ‘a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things’.[16] Now before atheists get too antsy, Durkheim was clear that ‘sacred things’ did not necessarily have to be supernatural beings such as gods, but could be anything held dear to the person including ideas or values. It’s really not difficult to see how atheism, with its fetishization of science and human reason fits this definition quite nicely.

Another helpful way to think about the word ‘religion’ is to consider a religion as a system of belief that attempts to answer ultimate questions: Is there a God? Why are we here? How do we determine good and evil? What happens when we die? Atheists certainly claim to have answers to those questions (“No”, “Time plus chance plus natural selection”; “Personal preference”; “We rot” etc.) and so fits the definition well.

Constructive Conclusions

Whether or not it is a religion, atheism, certainly is a belief, a positive claim, just as much as the claim ‘Sweden doesn’t exist’ and positive claims need to be argued for. That can take time and effort but if the claim is true, the hard work will presumably pay off. Sometimes however, I’m afraid, I encounter atheists who seem to prefer to simply deconstruct the worldview of others without bothering to put in the effort to defend their own.

Deconstruction is easy but it is also lazy. It would take the work of a few minutes to round up a dozen physically fit young people, equip them with sledgehammers, pickaxes and a backhoe or two, and ask them to demolish my home. They could probably do it in a few days. But if I then asked them to build me a new home, I suspect I’d have baffled looks. Any fool can tear something down—but it takes wisdom, effort and hard work to build something up.Yet build and construct we must if we wish our beliefs to be taken seriously, whether those beliefs are religious or irreligious.

Christians should not mock or belittle atheists, but we must certainly press them and insist they provide evidence, reasons and arguments. Otherwise they will fall foul of the aphorism coined by one of their own, Christopher Hitchens, who quipped: “That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence”.[17]. I agree entirely and his advice applies not just to Christians but also to atheists—I would advise them to take it seriously.

[1]        Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great(London: Atlantic Books, 2007) 5.
[2]        Terry Pratchett and Gray Jolliffee, The Unadulterated Cat (London: Vista, 1992).
[3]        Out of a spirit of generosity, we’ll ignore the atheist’s need to adopt some kind of philosophical position as to how and to what extent language can convey meaning. When an atheist says ‘I am an atheist’, she clearly believes she is conveying something—but precisely what and how is debated by linguists and philosophers.
[4]        Many Canadian hockey fans suspect that the statement ‘The Maple Leafs lost again’ is necessarily true.
[5]        Presumably if the tooth fairy did exist, then sleeping with one’s entire head under the pillow would necessitate a trip to the dentist in the morning for a complete set of dentures.
[6]        For more information on this delicious Swedish dish, see http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Lifestyle/Food-drink/Swedish-culinary-classics/Gravad-lax/.
[7]        Llewelyn Powys, Impassioned Clay. Cited in John Gray, The Silence of Animals: On Progress and Other Modern Myths (New York: Farrar, Strauss & Giroux, 2013)179-180.
[8]        See for example John Gray, Straw Dogs: Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals (New York: Farrar, Strauss & Giroux, 2003).
[9]        Friedrich Nietzsche, The Parable of the Madman (1882), online at http://www.historyguide.org/europe/madman.html (accessed 24 June 2013).
[10]       Bertrand Russell, ‘A Free Man’s Worship’, The Philosophical Society (online at http://bit.ly/russelldespair, accessed 27 August 2013).
[11]       One self-described free thinker once proudly told me, without a hint of irony, that he had read Hitchens’ book, God Is Not Great, over fifty times.
[12]       Atheist philosopher Thomas Nagel was deluged with thousands of angry messages, many calling him a ‘heretic’, after his book Mind and Cosmos questioned several aspects of evolution and suggested materialism could not explain several key features of reality. See Joseph Brean, ‘“What has gotten into Thomas Nagel?’: Leading atheist branded a ‘heretic’ for daring to question Darwinism’, The National Post, 23 March 2013 (online at http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/03/23/what-has-gotten-into-thomas-nagel-leading-atheist-branded-a-heretic-for-daring-to-question-darwinism/, accessed 28 August 2013).
[13]       David Knowles, ‘The Sunday Assembly, an atheist church in London, is a runaway success that is drawing standing room only crowds’. Daily News (New York), 6 Feb 2013 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/atheist-church-huge- success-london-article-1.1257274, accessed 13 February 2013).
[14]       Stephen Prothero, God is Not One: The Eight Rival Religions That Run the World (New York: HarperOne, 2010) 326.
[15]       ibid., 323.
[16]       See Émile Durkheim, The Elementary Forms of Religious Life, Translated by Carol Cosman with Introduction and Notes by Mark S. Cladis  (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2008) esp. xxi, 46.
[17]       Hitchens, God Is Not Great, 50

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December 04, 2016, 04:45:08 AM
 #830

Thanks for the article, CoinCube.
Quote
So what about atheism? Does the denial of God have any entailments? Yes, it does: take just one example—the concept of human rights. Modern human rights theory is based on the Judeo-Christian idea that human beings are of tremendous value and worth, because they are made in the image of God. Reject God and suddenly you have to start again, explaining why one particular creature, thrown up by the forces of time, chance and natural selection mixing and chopping atoms and chemicals for several billion years possesses inalienable rights, whereas amoeba, aardvarks and eggplants do not.

The idea that nature is indifferent to our individual existence is normally evidenced in atheist/skeptic circles by the existence of death. It is important to understand that this author is pointing out that all atheists are humanists.


Turn, now, while you still have time.

Cool

See, you even agree that your God is a Zombie. You want me to turn.

Instead of saying Jesus was wrestling with the fact that he saw a better future and nobody was interested—the atheist says he was a paranoid schizophrenic. It’s very much like rewriting history. The most salient points of history that work against the atheist are:
1) Virtually all cultures and peoples know and respect the golden rule; to "love thy neighbor as thyself" is universal and natural.
2) Many in the world still follow the teachings and lives of two men who lived this golden rule and their teachings parallel other wisdom teachings:
Quote
What made these two men special? For one thing, they both had profound wisdom. But their wisdom was unlike others because it came, not from intellectual reasoning, but from direct awareness of the Absolute. Jesus and the Buddha were mystics. Their teachings carried the weight of authority because they came from the source of Being Itself. Their personal wisdom was not the result of religious belief or faith, but came from a place of gnosis--knowledge.
...
Each of these masters claimed that their teachings came from personal experience of ultimate reaity, so we might expect their teachings to be similar. Certainly their teachings carry the weight of authority--in our day, as well as theirs. (emphasis mine)
Jesus, *Buddha, Krishna*, Lao Tzu: The Parallel Sayings
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December 04, 2016, 05:26:59 AM
 #831

I do not believe that can be the relationship between religion and health. It happens so that sick children are born in a family of believers. And atheists live up to 100 years. It all depends on genetics
Lol it depends in what you believe in life ofcourse and if you are going to eat healthy foods and you are going to become healty religions are for those who believe and want to change their atitude and want to believe in christ we can't say that all atheists are going to live up to 100 years.

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December 04, 2016, 02:21:50 PM
 #832

I do not believe that can be the relationship between religion and health. It happens so that sick children are born in a family of believers. And atheists live up to 100 years. It all depends on genetics
Lol it depends in what you believe in life ofcourse and if you are going to eat healthy foods and you are going to become healty religions are for those who believe and want to change their atitude and want to believe in christ we can't say that all atheists are going to live up to 100 years.

To a great extent, your health and religion are based on what you believe in life. Of course, what did you believe in life during your formation in the womb? and during your early childhood years? Yet you were formed even though you don't remember what you believed, if anything, back then.

The point? Your health and religion are also based on a lot of things that go on around you, some that you are not even aware of.

In addition - not just you from your selfish standpoint - but statistically, based on experiments of cross sections of people, religious activity produces better health.

Cool

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
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December 04, 2016, 03:25:33 PM
 #833

I do not believe that can be the relationship between religion and health. It happens so that sick children are born in a family of believers. And atheists live up to 100 years. It all depends on genetics
Lol it depends in what you believe in life ofcourse and if you are going to eat healthy foods and you are going to become healty religions are for those who believe and want to change their atitude and want to believe in christ we can't say that all atheists are going to live up to 100 years.

To a great extent, your health and religion are based on what you believe in life. Of course, what did you believe in life during your formation in the womb? and during your early childhood years? Yet you were formed even though you don't remember what you believed, if anything, back then.

The point? Your health and religion are also based on a lot of things that go on around you, some that you are not even aware of.

In addition - not just you from your selfish standpoint - but statistically, based on experiments of cross sections of people, religious activity produces better health.

Cool
Religion is nothing to do with it. This effect is called the placebo effect. The body itself will recover if you give a man chalk and saying that this medication. What does God and prayer?
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December 04, 2016, 05:22:39 PM
 #834

To a great extent, your health and religion are based on what you believe in life. Of course, what did you believe in life during your formation in the womb? and during your early childhood years? Yet you were formed even though you don't remember what you believed, if anything, back then.

The point? Your health and religion are also based on a lot of things that go on around you, some that you are not even aware of.

In addition - not just you from your selfish standpoint - but statistically, based on experiments of cross sections of people, religious activity produces better health.

Cool
Religion is nothing to do with it. This effect is called the placebo effect. The body itself will recover if you give a man chalk and saying that this medication. What does God and prayer?

Klima I advise you do some homework on what a placebo effect is. An intervention that statistically reduces mortality is by definition not placebo.

Going to church could help you live longer, study says
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/16/health/religion-lifespan-health/
Quote
Many Americans say they attend church because it helps them stay grounded and gives them spiritual guidance. A new study suggests that regular attendance may also help increase their lifespan.

Researchers looked at data on nearly 75,000 middle-age female nurses in the United States as part of the Nurses' Health Study. The participants answered questions about whether they attended religious services regularly every four years between 1992 and 2012, and about other aspects of their lives over the years.

The researchers found that women who went to church more than once a week had a 33% lower risk of dying during the study period compared with those who said they never went.
Less-frequent attendance was also associated with a lower risk of death, as women who attended once a week or less than weekly had 26% and 13% lower risk of death, respectively.

Women who regularly attended religious services also had higher rates of social support and optimism, had lower rates of depression and were less likely to smoke. However, the researchers took into account these differences between churchgoers and non-churchgoers when they calculated the decrease in death rates of 13% to 33%.

Going to church could have a number of additional benefits that could, in turn, improve longevity, but the researchers were not able to examine them with the available data. Attendance could promote self-discipline and a sense of meaning and purpose in life, or it could provide an experience of the transcendent, said Tyler J. VanderWeele, professor of epidemiology in the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. VanderWeele led the new research, which was published Monday in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine.

"Our study suggests that for health, the benefits outweigh the potentially negative effects," such as guilt, anxiety or intolerance, VanderWeele said.

Most of the women in the study were Protestant or Catholic, so it is not clear whether a similar association would be found between religious service attendance and longevity for people of other Christian religions, Judaism or Islam.

The study also did not explore the association in men. Previous research suggests that male churchgoers also benefit, though their decrease in death rate is not as large as among women, VanderWeele said.

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December 04, 2016, 05:39:28 PM
 #835



WHEN ATHEISTS ARE ANGRY AT GOD
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2011/01/when-atheists-are-angry-at-god

Quote from: Joe Carter
I’ve shaken my fist in anger at stalled cars, storm clouds, and incompetent meteorologists. I’ve even, on one terrible day that included a dead alternator, a blaring blaring tornado-warning siren, and a horrifically wrong weather forecast, cursed all three at once. I’ve fumed at furniture, cussed at crossing guards, and held a grudge against Gun Barrel City, Texas. I’ve been mad at just about anything you can imagine.

Except unicorns. I’ve never been angry at unicorns.

It’s unlikely you’ve ever been angry at unicorns either. We can become incensed by objects and creatures both animate and inanimate. We can even, in a limited sense, be bothered by the fanciful characters in books and dreams. But creatures like unicorns that don’t exist—that we truly believe not to exist—tend not to raise our ire. We certainly don’t blame the one-horned creatures for our problems.

The one social group that takes exception to this rule is atheists. They claim to believe that God does not exist and yet, according to empirical studies, tend to be the people most angry at him.

A new set of studies in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology finds that atheists and agnostics report anger toward God either in the past or anger focused on a hypothetical image of what they imagine God must be like. Julie Exline, a psychologist at Case Western Reserve University and the lead author of this recent study, has examined other data on this subject with identical results. Exline explains that her interest was first piqued when an early study of anger toward God revealed a counterintuitive finding: Those who reported no belief in God reported more grudges toward him than believers.

At first glance, this finding seemed to reflect an error. How could people be angry with God if they did not believe in God? Reanalyses of a second dataset revealed similar patterns: Those who endorsed their religious beliefs as “atheist/agnostic” or “none/unsure” reported more anger toward God than those who reported a religious affiliation.

Exline notes that the findings raised questions of whether anger might actually affect belief in God’s existence, an idea consistent with social science’s previous clinical findings on “emotional atheism.”

...

The most striking finding was that when Exline looked only at subjects who reported a drop in religious belief, their faith was least likely to recover if anger toward God was the cause of their loss of belief. In other words, anger toward God may not only lead people to atheism but give them a reason to cling to their disbelief.

...

Many atheists do, of course, proceed to their denial of God based solely on rational justifications. That is why evidentialist and philosophical approaches to apologetics will always be necessary. But I'm beginning to suspect that emotional atheism is far more common than many realize. We need a new apologetic approach that takes into account that the ordinary pain and sufferings of life leads more people away from God than a library full of anti-theist books. Focusing solely on the irate sputterings of the imperfectly intellectual New Atheists may blind us to the anger and suffering that is adding new nonbelievers to their ranks.

None of the serious atheists are angry at god since they dont believe in god therefore we cant be angry at one. We're just amused at peoples stupidity in 21st century.



“Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.” 

-George Carlin

George Carlin is dead. God is alive forever. Proof of God:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380

Cool


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December 05, 2016, 06:13:21 AM
Last edit: December 05, 2016, 06:24:56 AM by CoinCube
 #836

Thanks for the article, CoinCube.
Quote
So what about atheism? Does the denial of God have any entailments? Yes, it does: take just one example—the concept of human rights. Modern human rights theory is based on the Judeo-Christian idea that human beings are of tremendous value and worth, because they are made in the image of God. Reject God and suddenly you have to start again, explaining why one particular creature, thrown up by the forces of time, chance and natural selection mixing and chopping atoms and chemicals for several billion years possesses inalienable rights, whereas amoeba, aardvarks and eggplants do not.

The idea that nature is indifferent to our individual existence is normally evidenced in atheist/skeptic circles by the existence of death. It is important to understand that this author is pointing out that all atheists are humanists.
...

The source is a book by Andy Bannister titled:

The Atheist Who Didn't Exist
Or: The Dreadful Consequences of Bad Arguments

I have not read the entire book but it is on my long list of literature I may get to some day if there is time.
The passage cited as well as other passages in the book can be sampled for free on google book preview here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=qPEaCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=The+Scandinavian+Sceptic+(or+Why+Atheism+Is+a+Belief+System)&source=bl&ots=WEdx_c9Hvi&sig=pNmp0p5ifYAUWVrtp3JpNTvB9mc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwit97n8r9zQAhVPwWMKHS2mD80Q6AEIPTAF#v=onepage&q=The%20Scandinavian%20Sceptic%20(or%20Why%20Atheism%20Is%20a%20Belief%20System)&f=false

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December 05, 2016, 08:28:11 PM
 #837

Don’t wait until it’s too late to show the love you have for the special people in your life.
http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/In-Plain-Language-The-six-questions-you-will-be-asked-in-heaven-323973#article=0OUMzMTQ0QUFCMjc2M0JDODIxRTYwNDZFRjYxRDNCRTA=
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The Talmud (Shabbat 31a) offers a dramatic glimpse into the Heavenly tribunal.

It tells us that, upon arrival at the gates of Heaven, each person is given a test, a sort of cosmic entrance exam, and is asked six questions: Did you do business with honesty and integrity? Did you fix set times for studying Torah? Did you participate in the commandment to be fruitful and multiply? Did you anxiously anticipate the redemption? Did you engage in the pursuit of wisdom? Did you have fear of Heaven? Each and every one of these questions represents a probing not just of our accomplishments, but of our overall character.

Not just an overview of how our mortal self performed for 120 years, but how our soul developed during its lifetime and impacted upon the universe.

• Did we do business with honesty and integrity? Would we define ourselves as givers, or takers? Were we generous with what God gave us? • Did we fix set times for studying Torah? Did we establish a discipline of life, whereby our human needs were intertwined with our spiritual obligations? • Did we participate in the mitzva of being fruitful and multiplying? Did we see ourselves as a finite end in and of itself, or rather as a link in the ongoing, eternal chain of the generations? Were we isolationist in our approach to others, or were we genuinely concerned for their welfare? Did we restrict ourselves to self-indulgence, or did we see our mission as making a difference in the world at large? Even if we personally were blessed with offspring, did we also assist others who were not so fortunate, who needed a shidduch, so that they, too, could marry and have children? Did we make life easier for the needy, so they would be able to increase their families? • Did we anxiously anticipate the redemption? Did we have a positive or negative outlook on life? Did we live only for the moment, or did we think about and prepare for the future? Did we contemplate what would make the world a better place, and actively try to implement that vision? • Did we engage in the pursuit of wisdom, pursuing that which challenged our intellect, or did we spend too much time in mindless pursuits? Did we ask deep and important questions to ourselves, seeking answers that would give meaning to our life? And did we share our knowledge with others? • Did we have fear of Heaven? Did we live with a daily awareness that this world in general and our existence in particular is perilous and precarious, held together only by divine kindness? Did we stand in awe and appreciation of the magnificent world which God provided us on a silver platter? Did we show honor and homage to our Creator, appreciating that His demands upon us were for our own good and our own growth? THESE SIX classic questions got me to thinking: What specific questions would I personally be asked in Heaven? What expectations was I meant to live up to, and what evidence will be presented at my Heavenly hearing? These questions get to the essence, the heart and soul, of what each of us are all about, and what repentance, really means.

Reflection Is the Most Important Part of the Learning Process
http://99u.com/workbook/25481/reflection-is-the-most-important-part-of-the-learning-process
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However you learn best — visually, auditory, or kinesthetically — you’ll reap the most rewards by spending time reflecting on your experiences. At least, that’s according to new research published by the Harvard Business School:

[The] results reveal reflection to be a powerful mechanism behind learning, confirming the words of American philosopher, psychologist, and educational reformer John Dewey: “We do not learn from experience … we learn from reflecting on experience.” … In fact, these beneficial effects seem to be lasting.


Why do reflection efforts generate an improvement in problem-solving capacity? We propose that the link between learning-by-thinking and greater performance is explained by self-efficacy, or a personal evaluation of one’s capabilities to organize and execute courses of action to attain designated goals…

The study behind these findings involved a random sample of 202 people, each individually given an online creativity test. One group of test-takers were instructed to reflect on a pre-test, writing down any strategies they thought might be helpful for the next test. Another group was told to also write down their thoughts and strategies, with the caveat that their notes would be shared with others. The final group was given no instructions for rumination.

In the end, both of the groups that were tasked with thinking about the pre-test performed significantly better than the group that did not spend any time thinking about the tasks at hand.

The research is clear: dedicating time to reflect on your life and work regularly (like with a daily check-in) really does have an affect on performance. Read the full details of the research (and get the final paper on the results) right here.

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December 05, 2016, 11:56:31 PM
 #838

Part of the point is, however long you live in  this life, it is short compared with eternity. Get right with eternity, 'cause it is a long time to live there in a wretched, pathetic state.

In addition, if you are right with eternity, you will be a lot more comfortable and happy in this life, just for FEELING that you are right with eternity.

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December 06, 2016, 10:51:13 AM
 #839

Part of the point is, however long you live in  this life, it is short compared with eternity. Get right with eternity, 'cause it is a long time to live there in a wretched, pathetic state.

In addition, if you are right with eternity, you will be a lot more comfortable and happy in this life, just for FEELING that you are right with eternity.

Cool

I do not believe in your version of the afterlife and I feel pretty darn comfortable with my eternity. Do you, knowing if you have made the wrong choice you face an eternity in your Hell?

After all, you are the one who has not followed your God's words exact;y as I have pointed out to you many times!
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December 06, 2016, 12:50:30 PM
 #840

Part of the point is, however long you live in  this life, it is short compared with eternity. Get right with eternity, 'cause it is a long time to live there in a wretched, pathetic state.

In addition, if you are right with eternity, you will be a lot more comfortable and happy in this life, just for FEELING that you are right with eternity.

Cool

I do not believe in your version of the afterlife and I feel pretty darn comfortable with my eternity. Do you, knowing if you have made the wrong choice you face an eternity in your Hell?

After all, you are the one who has not followed your God's words exact;y as I have pointed out to you many times!

As I have shown you, I follow God's words exactly, because I follow them in Jesus. As God says, believing in Jesus is the thing - and really the only thing - that allows anyone to follow God's words exactly. The perfection of Jesus - the Guy Who followed God's words exactly - is applied to me through faith in Him. This means that even if I don't follow God's words exactly, I do follow them exactly in Jesus.

God says it. Jesus says it. I do it... in Jesus. You are mistaken. It is you who are not following God's words exactly.



Regarding versions of eternal life...

Nobody who didn't have a death wish for himself, would do something that might kill himself, right? So, why do people die in car accidents? Why do they die in hospitals? Why do they die in wars? Very few (if any) of these people have a death wish for themselves.

They die because they made a mistake about a benefit they expected to receive. A car accident wasn't expected. It just happened. Death in the hospital was the reverse of what was being looked for. The soldier who dies was really hoping to help his nation and other people, and to receive a little pay for doing it. None of these people wanted to die. And if they knew they were going to die, they would have done things a different way.

The point? Feeling comfortable isn't what counts. Recognizing the truth and the facts is.

You keep trying to show me how I am not following God's words. I keep showing you that I am. I have the reference that shows that I am, even though there are many references that appear to show that I am not. Who are these "not" reference for? They are for the people who do not do the thing that covers, and essentially voids, all the "not" references. They are for people like you.

You are the one who is not obeying God, simply because you do not accept Jesus salvation, the only thing that can make the despicable life of any person to be pure. When you attempt to apply disobedience of God to me, you are doing so because you are drawing from yourself. When I apply obedience of God to myself, I do so because I apply Jesus righteous obedience to myself, as God tells me. Jesus righteousness covers/removes/voids all disobedience against God's words.

I am righteous in Jesus righteousness. God said so. Apparently you are not... and God said this as well. But, you can change.

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