Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[dre1982]

I think this race is already over from now because Max will dominate it from start to finish

Yes, it's the familiar pattern of one car being clearly better than all of the others... it's just that this time it's not the Mercedes!
It makes a change, I suppose, but still... it can be a bit boring when you know who the winner will be before the race starts - barring any weird occurrence like an untimely safety car.

F1 racing would be better if everyone drove the same car... but I appreciate it wouldn't be F1 then, without the different manufacturers showing off what they can do.

Different cars is just great. The competition who can build the fastest car is great.

But it's sad that Mercedes is acting like a little kid that now someone else have a better car. They had the best car for 7 years and now someone else got it and they are now blaming RB that they did something woth the engine.

[coinlocket$]

Boring race.

Redbull is too strong with the last update (irregular?) to the engine.
The only fun part of the race went from Ferrari, sad for the Leclerc accident at the start or he could end 5th.

The next race it will be here next week.

[DIA7]

Red Bull's Max Verstappen wins today extending his championship lead by 18 points over Lewis Hamilton.
Hamilton finished second for Mercedes and earned an extra point after setting the fastest lap.
 
This made it for the first time since 2013, Mercedes has failed to win four races in a row.
Valtteri Bottas finished third with Mercedes. there was not nothing he can do this time to help Hamilton as Verstappen took the pole and never let it go.
The good thing for him is these didn't make Mercedes screw him so he can help Hamilton. The other good thing was going good for Bottas was that Russel retiring after he was in the top 10 in the first part of the race.
The Ferraris improved in this race, Sainz finishing 6 after staring from 12th, and Leclerc was 7th after he was the last in the first lap for pitting when he damaged his front wing.

[LTU_btc]

Not the most exciting race. Verstappen dominated from start until finish, and there was no doubts about 2nd place for Hamilton. Finally good race for Bottas, he managed to keep Perez behind him. While Red Bull screwed up with slow Perez pit stop. Norris was great again, it's amazing how consistent he is this season, delivering great results for Mclaren.
Good race for both Ferrari after failure last week. Especially for Leclerc, who had accident on 1st lap and had to pit.

[tokeweed]

^  Yup..  Leclerc was my driver of the day.  That guy deserves a better car.  Ferrari should bring it on 2022.  And why is Ricciardo always bringing McLaren down in the constrcutor’s championship?  He’s the worst performing driver among the ones that got to switch to a new team.

[Luzin]

MotoGP Assen:

Quartararo, the champion in Assen, has won 4 times, his points are also getting wider with Zarco their difference is 34 points.

Second podium for Vinales,

Marquez finished 7th, remember he started in 20th this is great.

Rossi fell again, Assen is no longer a good home for Rossi.

[Cnut237]

Not the most exciting race. Verstappen dominated from start until finish, and there was no doubts about 2nd place for Hamilton.

Yes, it was almost a foregone conclusion going into the weekend, Verstappen on pole, Hamilton right behind... then Hamilton would follow Verstappen for the whole race, but never looking like he had the speed to overtake, then Verstappen wins, Hamilton second.

Same again next time out?

The only intersting thing really is that it makes a change from the foregone conclusion of Hamilton pole Hamilton win from previous seasons. But it's annoying that we've gone from Mercedes having by far the best car to Red Bull having by far the best car. I just wish we could have one season where the front teams are evenly matched.

[Jackl87]

I think this race is already over from now because Max will dominate it from start to finish and I'm also counting on Perez to get on 2nd or 3rd place in order to increase the championship points for the team.

Mercedes are under big pressure now and I'm sure that at some point they will even the car with Rebull's but it might be too late to catch them regarding points and to be honest, Max really deserves a championship after all this years.

You were right and Verstappen really managed to achieve a victory that never seemed to be in real danger. In the end he was more than 35 seconds in front of Hamilton. I did not expect that Red Bull is really able to be so dominant this weekend. I don't know i am probably still mentally damaged from the last 5 seasons or so where mercedes dominated the other teams as they wanted and won races without even going anywhere close to their limits.Whenever Red Bull is dominating the Free Practices i still think "Yeah that's nice and all but in the Qualifying mercedes will activate some extra engine power and will still be 0.5s quicker per round than Red Bull", but in the last few races that did not happen.

[tokeweed]

Is RBR the quickest team with the pit stops?  I feel like there’s some politics going on with the FIA’s annoucement that they’re looking into making the teams do slower pit stops.  How much of an edge would RBR lose if these 2 second pitstops were disallowed?  A quarter of a second per race?

https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/24/fia-to-force-f1-teams-to-slow-down-their-pit-stops/

[LTU_btc]

But it's annoying that we've gone from Mercedes having by far the best car to Red Bull having by far the best car. I just wish we could have one season where the front teams are evenly matched.

I got same impression during race yesterday. Bud did we ever had 2 teams fighting on the same level. There always been one team leading with bigger or smaller margin - Mercedes, Red Bull or Ferrari back in Schumacher era. Probably last time when Brawn GP won season when their car wasn't miles ahead others.

Is RBR the quickest team with the pit stops?  I feel like there’s some politics going on with the FIA’s annoucement that they’re looking into making the teams do slower pit stops.  How much of an edge would RBR lose if these 2 second pitstops were disallowed?  A quarter of a second per race?

https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/24/fia-to-force-f1-teams-to-slow-down-their-pit-stops/

I think that these new rules is nonsense. Especially because FIA decided to add this pit stop rule during middle of season. And offcourse, teams which makes fastest pit stops (Red Bull) will be affected most.

[sana54210]

Red Bull's Max Verstappen wins today extending his championship lead by 18 points over Lewis Hamilton.
Hamilton finished second for Mercedes and earned an extra point after setting the fastest lap.
 
This made it for the first time since 2013, Mercedes has failed to win four races in a row.
Valtteri Bottas finished third with Mercedes. there was not nothing he can do this time to help Hamilton as Verstappen took the pole and never let it go.
The good thing for him is these didn't make Mercedes screw him so he can help Hamilton. The other good thing was going good for Bottas was that Russel retiring after he was in the top 10 in the first part of the race.
The Ferraris improved in this race, Sainz finishing 6 after staring from 12th, and Leclerc was 7th after he was the last in the first lap for pitting when he damaged his front wing.

Bottas really showed what he can do on this race, it was a very very crucial race and he actually managed to do it. I was fully expecting Norris to end in third position looking at the race for a while, he was looking fire, then both perez and bottas passed him without zero problems, easiest overtakes at that top level I remember in a while, normally there is a fight and yeah of course people pass each other constantly it is a race but Norris literally let them pass, that hardly ever happens.

In the end mercedes screwed Bottas so many times this season yet they managed to actually end up helping him big time this race, he won a spot AT the pit stop, that is very cool to see. I love red bull and want them to win but I do not want no harm to mercedes and I want them to be like this race full on doing great work, a competition is always good.

[AndySt]

Is RBR the quickest team with the pit stops?  I feel like there’s some politics going on with the FIA’s annoucement that they’re looking into making the teams do slower pit stops.  How much of an edge would RBR lose if these 2 second pitstops were disallowed?  A quarter of a second per race?
https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/24/fia-to-force-f1-teams-to-slow-down-their-pit-stops/

I think that these new rules is nonsense. Especially because FIA decided to add this pit stop rule during middle of season. And offcourse, teams which makes fastest pit stops (Red Bull) will be affected most.

On the one hand, it looks a little unfair when such changes are made in the middle of the season, because it is desirable that the rules are set before the season and the teams clearly understand how to act and what to expect. On the other hand, these pit stops for a few seconds gradually distort the very idea of pit stops as an element of tactical struggle due to their short duration and this can really already affect the safety of racing from a not very positive side. Therefore, I do not approve of changing the rules in the middle of the season, but I fully approve of the direction of thought.

[Koal-84]

Boring race.

Redbull is too strong with the last update (irregular?) to the engine.
The only fun part of the race went from Ferrari, sad for the Leclerc accident at the start or he could end 5th.

The next race it will be here next week.

RedBull currently has the best car/package - that's true. But so has Mercedes for the last 5 years or more. Why do you think irregular?

Toto Wolf has also indicated in the interview that they currently can not fight back and also no longer develop at the current car, which I can imagine but hard.

Is RBR the quickest team with the pit stops?  I feel like there’s some politics going on with the FIA’s annoucement that they’re looking into making the teams do slower pit stops.  How much of an edge would RBR lose if these 2 second pitstops were disallowed?  A quarter of a second per race?
https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/24/fia-to-force-f1-teams-to-slow-down-their-pit-stops/

I think that these new rules is nonsense. Especially because FIA decided to add this pit stop rule during middle of season. And offcourse, teams which makes fastest pit stops (Red Bull) will be affected most.

On the one hand, it looks a little unfair when such changes are made in the middle of the season, because it is desirable that the rules are set before the season and the teams clearly understand how to act and what to expect. On the other hand, these pit stops for a few seconds gradually distort the very idea of pit stops as an element of tactical struggle due to their short duration and this can really already affect the safety of racing from a not very positive side. Therefore, I do not approve of changing the rules in the middle of the season, but I fully approve of the direction of thought.

For me, this new rule is clearly against RedBull, they are simply the team with the best/fastest pit stops at the moment (last years).

[swogerino]

Finally we are not seeing that boring Mercedes dominance anymore thanks to Honda.The lasy time Honda won 4 consecutive races is back at the times of Senna with McLaren at that time.If Honda really leaves F1 who will stop Mercedes dominance then?Probably no one.

[Koal-84]

Finally we are not seeing that boring Mercedes dominance anymore thanks to Honda.The lasy time Honda won 4 consecutive races is back at the times of Senna with McLaren at that time.If Honda really leaves F1 who will stop Mercedes dominance then?Probably no one.

Honda is leaving F1 that is already fixed, RedBull wants to develop the engines themselves with the help of Honda until there is a new engine regulation. But it's true, nobody can see the Formula Mercedes of the last few years, I hope that Ferrari will be a competitor to RedBull and Mercedes again next year. Another car than RedBull and Mercedes can currently not win on its own.

https://thejudge13.com/2021/04/25/red-bull-to-develop-its-own-engine-from-2025/
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.analysis-why-red-bull-have-decided-to-go-all-in-with-bold-new-engine.1NwzQAokrbN9md3KgJlKJH.html

[lixer]

On the one hand, it looks a little unfair when such changes are made in the middle of the season, because it is desirable that the rules are set before the season and the teams clearly understand how to act and what to expect. On the other hand, these pit stops for a few seconds gradually distort the very idea of pit stops as an element of tactical struggle due to their short duration and this can really already affect the safety of racing from a not very positive side. Therefore, I do not approve of changing the rules in the middle of the season, but I fully approve of the direction of thought.

Also I do not understand why would anyone want to make something slower... in a race? Like if the pitstop could be 0.5 seconds then let it be, I know that is not possible (or at least for now) but shouldn't we want everything to be faster and faster?

When you are doing something that is hurting Red Bull there is only one thing people will ask; Why are you helping out Mercedes? Because let's face it FIA is literally helping out Mercedes here, they are basically trying to force Red Bull to lose in order to get Mercedes to win again. Is Mercedes win mean more and more money for Formula? I mean do they make a ton more money this way? I doubt that, people would love to watch Mercedes finally losing, so I do not understand but I am 100% certain that FIA is doing all of this just to make sure Mercedes has clear advantage again, which doesn't make sense to me at all, why are they doing it?

[DIA7]

Finally we are not seeing that boring Mercedes dominance anymore thanks to Honda.The lasy time Honda won 4 consecutive races is back at the times of Senna with McLaren at that time.If Honda really leaves F1 who will stop Mercedes dominance then?Probably no one.

Mercedes is planning to add updates to its cars as it looks to regain its dominance in the Formula One world championship. So the current short term dominance by RedBull could be cut short.After Verstappen won the Styria Grand Prix, Hamiltondriver urged his team to make changes in the car in order to increase its speed.
Mercedes chief Toto Wolff said the focus is now on the 2022 car, but James Allison, director of the Mercedes technical office, made it clear that this did not preclude modifications to the current model.

[Koal-84]

A look to MotoGP, Quartararo has ridden a perfect race, Vinales very good second, it seems that he has the head again free since it is certain that he will no longer ride for Yamaha next year and goes to Aprilia. Morbidelli now comes to the factory team, think Yamaha will try to keep Rossi another year and put a rookie to his side. Petronas with 2 new drivers I can not really imagine, that is very risky.

[ILuckyGuyI]

I heard something like Toto Wolff claimed that if Red Bull continues to develop its car in this season, it will be around 2 seconds behind Mercedes in the next season. I wonder what his basis is. Will Mercedes really become that powerful in the next season?

We all know that there are going to be completely new F1 cars and new rules also. It's very exciting already. 

[Koal-84]

I heard something like Toto Wolff claimed that if Red Bull continues to develop its car in this season, it will be around 2 seconds behind Mercedes in the next season. I wonder what his basis is. Will Mercedes really become that powerful in the next season?

We all know that there are going to be completely new F1 cars and new rules also. It's very exciting already. 

So I think this is a bold statement, next year no one knows where the team including the car really stands. Not much will happen in the powertrain, where Honda and Mercedes are on an equal footing. I hope that Ferrari can still catch up with the two. In any case, it will be exciting next year.

I'm surprised that Mercedes still wants to bring updates this year, it was last denied.