Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[retreat]

Piastri for the first time in his career won the race after a long drama between him, Lando, and Max. He really deserved it. But once again, McLaren finished the race quite chaotically, especially Lando, he was increasingly impatient to win the race and didn't seem to want to give his teammate a chance. Luckily he was still willing to give Piastri space for P1.
And this time we see the many blunders made by Max and how their strategy is quite messy. This indicates that currently RB is increasingly being chased by other teams. That's a good thing and it's the competition I've been waiting for, and it makes F1 even more exciting to watch.

-snip-

I think Norris should have been the winner. Piastri messes up but still dares to take the lead? I assume McLaren doesn't care about Norris' chance for a championship. We are only in the middle of the season and Red Bull isn't like in the past.

McLaren definitely has the data so they can tell Lando to give Piastri the go, but I admit that the way McLaren manages their drivers is not good at all, there are a lot of mistakes, and it makes both of their current drivers quite disappointed. Especially when he was on the podium, there we could see how Lando didn't give any reaction to Piastri, who had just won his first race. I know that he is quite disappointed, but he has to mature and not blame his teammate who only received orders to lead the race and was also not happy enough with the result he got, even though it was P1. Even someone who often has beef with his teammate, Nico, gave recommendations to the McLaren team in the interview session, and it also makes sense seeing how they treat their drivers.

[Velvet78]

"You are are child" or something like that they said to Max Verstappen, crazy what they have said to him.
The race was fun to see in the latest 10 laps, and with hot temperatures Ferrari got some sprint as expected.

Mclaren is clearly the best car in the F1 right now.

I totally agree. How can Verstappen be acting like a child there?    He clearly states how terrible Red Bull was with the strategies. Maybe he put it in a really strict way but he should be tolerated for that honestly.

He continued furiously during post-race interview too.



https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-tells-critics-to-f-off-after-hungarian-gp/10637327/

McLaren is way ahead of Red Bull now. I even question Red Bull's place against Mercedes as well. Because you have seen how much Verstappen struggled to overtake Hamilton. I'm really having fun in this season honestly. Finally we have a season without a one-man domination. 

[FanEagle]

What many people who watched it do not understand is that, if they preferred Piastri over Norris during the race strategy, Piastri would have been a mile ahead, and Norris would have been closer to Hamilton, and maybe not even be second as well. What they did, was give Norris the better strategy, so that Piastri was already ahead, so while he would take a hit like Norris would have, the hit would have been less.

Assume that you have a car at first, with 5 seconds ahead of everyone, and a car that is second 1 second ahead of the third, or you have a car at first 1 second ahead of second, and a car at second 10 seconds ahead of third. Which would you prefer? They gave Piastri worse strategy, because he was far more ahead, that's why Norris was ahead of Piastri, they could have used undercut on Piastri too, then ruin Norris. What they asked Norris was simply just be fair, and Piastri was behind him only because they basically let him be there, and it would be fair to give Piastri what he deserves.

In the end, I understand why both Piastri and Norris would have been upset, it is not a clear win like they would want to, but this is the fair thing, this is how it has to be done for a team to be equal to both drivers.

[tokeweed]

"You are are child" or something like that they said to Max Verstappen, crazy what they have said to him.
The race was fun to see in the latest 10 laps, and with hot temperatures Ferrari got some sprint as expected.

Mclaren is clearly the best car in the F1 right now.

That's what I've been saying for a month now...  McLaren has the best car and it was starting to be obvious a couple of months ago.  They just need their drivers to listen like when at Silverstone I think both Piastri and Norris were told to double stack but they avoided it.  It cost them the 1 - 2. 

As for Verstappen, this is the part of the season when it becomes interesting because you'll see the Verstappen of old.  He's gonna be reckless out there.

[Distraction]

What they asked Norris was simply just be fair, and Piastri was behind him only because they basically let him be there, and it would be fair to give Piastri what he deserves.

In the end, I understand why both Piastri and Norris would have been upset, it is not a clear win like they would want to, but this is the fair thing, this is how it has to be done for a team to be equal to both drivers.

McLaren developed a bad strategy for Piastri and caused him to be overtaken by Norris after last pit. I'm okay with that. However McLaren should have thought more thoroughly anyway. Norris has a more realistic chance to push for winning a championship now. It can't be denided I think considering McLaren is the fastest right now.

Piastri's first win could have been in a better way than this. Norris should have been given the win to collect 7 more very important points. Think about the chance he might even lose the championship because of that. 

It looks like McLaren is prioritizing constructor championship, not Norris' chance.

[coinlocket$]

Some rumors about managers today
Adrian Newey has been offered €100m to join Aston Martin, the rumor for Ferrari was 50m €, so basically the double

Ferrari ex team principal Mattia Binotto will come back in F1.

Audi has confirmed Binotto as manager Today with others people like Sauber CEO Andreas Seidl and Oliver Hoffmann from Sauber.

[Velvet78]

Some rumors about managers today
Adrian Newey has been offered €100m to join Aston Martin, the rumor for Ferrari was 50m €, so basically the double

Ferrari ex team principal Mattia Binotto will come back in F1.

Audi has confirmed Binotto as manager Today with others people like Sauber CEO Andreas Seidl and Oliver Hoffmann from Sauber.

I have also seen it. That's absolutely a huge offer.    Ferrari didn't even want to meet Newey's demands despite his expecting much less money. Plus, Newey was going to bring 20 engineers together with himself (They say it has been denied though).

Newey is a great engineer. Why wouldn't Ferrari like to give their best to agree with him?    From now on, they have missed that train though as they have to pay much more money to equal Aston Martin offer.

Binotto to Audi? Interesting. Binotto shouldn't actually be a boss for any team. Instead, he should do what he is doing best. I would like to see him showing his engineering skills.

[tokeweed]

What they asked Norris was simply just be fair, and Piastri was behind him only because they basically let him be there, and it would be fair to give Piastri what he deserves.

In the end, I understand why both Piastri and Norris would have been upset, it is not a clear win like they would want to, but this is the fair thing, this is how it has to be done for a team to be equal to both drivers.

McLaren developed a bad strategy for Piastri and caused him to be overtaken by Norris after last pit. I'm okay with that. However McLaren should have thought more thoroughly anyway. Norris has a more realistic chance to push for winning a championship now. It can't be denided I think considering McLaren is the fastest right now.

Piastri's first win could have been in a better way than this. Norris should have been given the win to collect 7 more very important points. Think about the chance he might even lose the championship because of that. 

It looks like McLaren is prioritizing constructor championship, not Norris' chance.

It was nothing about who the team thinks should win or setting one driver to get first place over the other.  Piastri was prolly the faster guy at the race.  They need to got that 1 - 2 and that's all that mattered in Hungary for the team.

Some rumors about managers today
Adrian Newey has been offered €100m to join Aston Martin, the rumor for Ferrari was 50m €, so basically the double

Ferrari ex team principal Mattia Binotto will come back in F1.

Audi has confirmed Binotto as manager Today with others people like Sauber CEO Andreas Seidl and Oliver Hoffmann from Sauber.

Oh nice...  Would've loved to see Binotto as technical guy and design cars tho.  But good to see him back.  As for Newey, wow that's tempting.  Looks like Aston Martin is really serious.  But I don't think money will be a decision maker for Newey tho?  Dunno.

[FanEagle]

What they asked Norris was simply just be fair, and Piastri was behind him only because they basically let him be there, and it would be fair to give Piastri what he deserves.

In the end, I understand why both Piastri and Norris would have been upset, it is not a clear win like they would want to, but this is the fair thing, this is how it has to be done for a team to be equal to both drivers.

McLaren developed a bad strategy for Piastri and caused him to be overtaken by Norris after last pit. I'm okay with that. However McLaren should have thought more thoroughly anyway. Norris has a more realistic chance to push for winning a championship now. It can't be denided I think considering McLaren is the fastest right now.

Piastri's first win could have been in a better way than this. Norris should have been given the win to collect 7 more very important points. Think about the chance he might even lose the championship because of that. 

It looks like McLaren is prioritizing constructor championship, not Norris' chance.

That is the thing, I agree that the strategy put Piastri down, and that is why Norris was up, and they asked Norris to give up the position BECAUSE their own strategical decision, I get that and it was fair to ask Norris to give up. However, we need to remember that Norris "could" go for drivers title, which is insane when you think about it because it is not really expected of Mclaren to be this good normally, suddenly they became so great, like just a few years ago a 4th place was something amazing for them.

I think it's clear that Norris should have been given the first place, even though it wasn't fair, and even though Piastri would have only lost because of team strategy, we should have still seen Norris win because those points mean something to Norris more than it means to Piastri.

It is obvious that they are going for constructors, because Perez sucks, and could even be fired during the season itself, whereas Piastri and Norris combined could beat Max, hence why they care about team title a lot more. But they should still not put this type of mistake for Norris, imagine if he loses at the end of the season with like just five points difference? That would make this decision even worse.

[coinlocket$]

2024 FORMULA 1 DRIVERS' WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP   
Pos   Driver   Nat.   Team   Wins   Points
1   Max Verstappen   NED   Oracle Red Bull Racing   7   265
2   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1   189
3   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari   1   162
4   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari   1   154
5   Oscar Piastri   AUS   McLaren F1 Team   1   149
6   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1   125
7   Sergio Perez   MEX   Oracle Red Bull Racing   0   124
8   George Russell   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1   116
9   Fernando Alonso   ESP   Aston Martin Aramco F1 Team   0   45
10   Lance Stroll   CAN   Aston Martin Aramco F1 Team   0   24

This si the F1 Championship leaderboard after the hungarian Grand Prix.

2024 FORMULA 1 CONSTRUCTORS' WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
Pos   Team   Wins   Points
1   Oracle Red Bull Racing   7   389
2   McLaren F1 Team   2   338
3   Scuderia Ferrari   2   322

And this is the constructors' championship

With This Mclearen and this Perez, I can see Norris fighting with Max until the end and Mclearen easly win the second Mondial

Source: https://www.crash.net/f1/results/1052538/1/f1-world-championship-points-after-2024-hungarian-grand-prix

[swogerino]

Most likely McLaren with a Piastri upgrading his performances from race to race and Norris being there fighting and getting the pole,at least 2 this season shows that clearly Redbull is not the fastest car and they can consider lost their constructor title already.Perez is having difficulties getting many points for the team while at McLaren both drivers bring good points to the team,a nervous,very nervous Verstappen shows that Redbull has not everything under control any more.I need this last race that will be held this weekend in Belgium before the long break and if McLaren dominates in such a long track also it means that Redbull long dominance is long gone.

[karabiber]

I congratulate McLaren on an outstanding performance. They've come back from the bottom to the top. As for the team order, if they had a plan to keep Piastri in front, I think they could have easily dealt with it with an early pit. It was a clumsily managed sequence. Congratulations to Piastri, but he is still behind Norris in terms of pace. I hope Red Bull, like Ferrari, have been misled by the updates. They were saying they completed the program three weeks early, but they were not in a good mood. I hope they didn't understand the updates or it wasn't something track specific and they messed up.

The season is going exactly as I thought it would. It's evolving into a scenario where they lose the constructors' championship. I thought Ferrari would be champions in the constructors' championship, but McLaren have been very strong in the constructors' championship this year. I think the relationship between Verstappen and Red Bull may have broken down, Verstappen knows that next year he will fight for the top with McLaren and the championship will not be easy with Red Bull. Mercedes, on the other hand, is on the upswing in terms of performance and bringing Allison back into the project has been very effective. Next year, when he designs the car himself, it looks like we will see Mercedes and McLaren at the top. Maybe Ferrari will join them if they get Newey. Therefore, the ideal scenario for Verstappen seems to be Mercedes.

[retreat]

Most likely McLaren with a Piastri upgrading his performances from race to race and Norris being there fighting and getting the pole,at least 2 this season shows that clearly Redbull is not the fastest car and they can consider lost their constructor title already -snip-

McLaren has been said to have the fastest performance car at the moment, but they are very bad at managing their drivers which makes clashes inevitable. They need to manage their two drivers as quickly as possible, because otherwise McLaren can make Lando and Piastri the same as Hamilton and Nico as before, and they will miss the opportunity to make one of their drivers become world champions.

[tokeweed]

So I heard that Max Verstappen will have a 10 place grid penalty because Red Bull replaced his car's power unit.  What does this mean?  I guess watch quali and see how he finishes.  If he gets pole position then we could be pretty sure thst there's a good chance he'll be on the podium even if he starts at 11th on the grid.

If he's still behind the McLarens then we'll see a lot more shenanigans that we saw in Hungary.  He's frustrated now.

[coinlocket$]

So I heard that Max Verstappen will have a 10 place grid penalty because Red Bull replaced his car's power unit.  What does this mean?  I guess watch quali and see how he finishes.  If he gets pole position then we could be pretty sure thst there's a good chance he'll be on the podium even if he starts at 11th on the grid.

If he's still behind the McLarens then we'll see a lot more shenanigans that we saw in Hungary.  He's frustrated now.

Since Adrian Newey left they have no more engineering superiority.
Next race is Spa he can recover easly to top 4, after that it will be harder.

The race for the world title is still on.

If I can remember correctly we will have a spring race next race too and I'm assuming the penalty will be on the race start and not on sprint race start.

[tokeweed]

^  Wait what?  I may have missed something...  Adrian Newey already left Red Bull and will not stay til the end of the season?

*Checks internet*

Ah no.  Lol.  He's set to leave early 2025.  I think Newey could still figure out something to get their edge back.  But it's gonna be another close fight between Red Bull and McLaren for sure.  It's the season that we have been waiting for and deserve.

[coinlocket$]

^  Wait what?  I may have missed something...  Adrian Newey already left Red Bull and will not stay til the end of the season?

*Checks internet*

Ah no.  Lol.  He's set to leave early 2025.  I think Newey could still figure out something to get their edge back.  But it's gonna be another close fight between Red Bull and McLaren for sure.  It's the season that we have been waiting for and deserve.

He already left his position.
He is still in redbull but he is not contributing anymore in the development of the car.

He is still payed by them but he is doing things for redbull outside the F1.

[Distraction]

First practice session has ended with Verstappen's lead. Norris wasn't competitive yet. But now after the second session things changed quite much.    Norris finished as the leader and Piastri followed right behind. Verstappen followed them in the 3rd position. McLaren isn't joking at all as of now. They are targeting the championship which is very realistic considering how bad Perez is.

By the way Esteban Ocon has signed a multi-year deal with Haas. I wonder what Gasly's future is going to be as well. Does Alpine think of keeping him?

[coinlocket$]

2024 F1 Belgian Grand Prix - Free Practice Results (2)
Pos   Driver   Nat.   Team   Time
1   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m42.260s
2   Oscar Piastri   AUS   McLaren F1 Team   1m42.475s
3   Max Verstappen   NED   Oracle Red Bull Racing   1m42.477s
4   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari   1m42.837s
5   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari   1m43.098s
6   George Russell   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1m43.290s
7   Esteban Ocon   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m43.401s
8   Kevin Magnussen   DEN   MoneyGram Haas F1 Team   1m43.485s
9   Sergio Perez   MEX   Oracle Red Bull Racing   1m43.504s
10   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1m43.519s
11   Lance Stroll   CAN   Aston Martin Aramco F1 Team   1m43.532s
12   Fernando Alonso   ESP   Aston Martin Aramco F1 Team   1m43.538s
13   Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Stake F1 Team Kick Sauber   1m43.675s
14   Daniel Ricciardo   AUS   Visa Cash App RB F1 Team   1m43.823s
15   Pierre Gasly   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m43.829s
16   Nico Hulkenberg   GER   MoneyGram Haas F1 Team   1m43.846s
17   Alex Albon   THA   Williams Racing   1m43.892s
18   Logan Sargeant   USA   Williams Racing   1m44.226s
19   Zhou Guanyu   CHN   Stake F1 Team Kick Sauber   1m44.302s
20   Yuki Tsunoda   JPN   Visa Cash App RB F1 Team   1m44.348s

Source:https://www.crash.net/f1/results/1052680/1/2024-f1-belgian-grand-prix-friday-practice-results

Mclaren is still ahead, rain could be a possibility.

I'm expecting a big difference in cars, long tracks kinda do

[tokeweed]

^  Wait what?  I may have missed something...  Adrian Newey already left Red Bull and will not stay til the end of the season?

*Checks internet*

Ah no.  Lol.  He's set to leave early 2025.  I think Newey could still figure out something to get their edge back.  But it's gonna be another close fight between Red Bull and McLaren for sure.  It's the season that we have been waiting for and deserve.

He already left his position.
He is still in redbull but he is not contributing anymore in the development of the car.

He is still payed by them but he is doing things for redbull outside the F1.

That doesn't sound right...  If Newey still has a live contract until early 2025 then he should be doing his job and help the team win the most races they can.  And I don't think he would do Horner dirty like that, leaving him at the middle of the season.  Lol. 

Unless...  I missed something?

Anyway, track was wet at FP3 and most of the drivers just had under 10 laps in.  So no additional info to pick up on.  Quali in an hour or so.