Lose all your capital fast, with MatTheCat and his TA 101A!

[chesthing]

I dunno, Roach. Bitcoin still isn't being used as a currency, its value is still mostly based on speculation. Your chart repeat prediction isn't happening anytime soon imo.

[...] At this time, bitcoin value is 100% speculation, it's nothing more than gambling. [...]

How much, today, is gold being used as a currency?

The problem most of us have (including myself) is trying to quantify Bitcoin into existing (asset) classes.
Is it a currency? Is it digital gold? Is it a smart contract? Is it a payment system? Et cetera, et cetera.

Bitcoin is all of that at the same time, and much more we haven't figured out yet. Bitcoin already has incredible value and yes potentially much more, depending on new use cases figured out each day and it's adoption.

Therefore I disagree strongly it is 100% speculation, that is simply untrue. Example.

Gold can be used for jewelry so gaudy people can do their thing.
You bet the value of bitcoin is 100% based on speculation. If you took away mining farm manipulation, daytraders and those who buy and  hold for a future price increase what you would have left wouldn't create a value over $10 I would guess, maybe less. As far as mass adoption, in case you haven't heard bitcoin doesn't scale. The network couldn't even support a single major city that decided to use it for all of their daily transactions.

What exactly do you think will happen when most of the coins have been mined - do you think the network hashrate will be high enough to support the transactions that are occuring today? do you really believe mining farms will be in operation for the transaction fees alone? or do you think the network will crash? I think at some point bitcoin mining will be abandoned - probably during the next two halvings, maybe sooner.

Let's stop betting and use some figures :

[img]https://i.imgur.com/53UfCoi.png[/img

Price and transaction volume excluding popular address (such as exchange, so speaking about use there) are correlated by 72% since genesis block, and the variation of price is explained by a degree of 52% by the variation of transaction volume excluding popular address (all of these being statistically significant with an high t statistic value). and then you say use doesn't matter ?   mate use figure, they are the only one to speak the truth...

Whatever, bunch of gobbligook.
Anyway, anyone with half a brain knows most of the exchange volume is in China on exchanges with zero transaction fees, it's the same f'g coins being batted back and forth, over and over. What I would like to see is data on are real purchases - people actually using bitcoin as a currency.

Are you able to read ?

I can't read whatever foreign language shit you posted.
I trust in the USD right now. All other fiat currencies are depreciating against it, and this will continue. The skinniest kid at fat camp, the best house in a bad neighborhood, the US economy is entering a into a period of deflation. That's not to say bitcoin couldn't explode at the same time - it isn't a currency, it's a betting tool.

[1714155429]

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[STT]

He excluded popular addresses and I presume is not including exchange volume which is internal to that system, its not recorded on the blockchain till it exits the exchange to another address.  

The same coins being exchanged on the blockchain by different users is monetary velocity which is very high for bitcoin I believe and it adds value to the market cap of the whole system.   Each transaction has a purpose, we cant assume everyone is pretending to have a purpose to their use of bitcoin.
   If bitcoin is reliably conveying value across the globe and for really low cost, no foreign exchange fees is really useful.   This is a product with an easy to see utility to it, it literally saves me money to use bitcoin and its amazing if I can find another user to exchange value with.   Neither of us needs to be paying bank fees.   Everytime that happens its reducing costs, improving value for bitcoin I think.  Isnt that just normal considered use for anyone in the world, nothing complicated to argue about.

Last time I used a bank to pay somebody 3,000 miles away they ended costing me 7% fees, incredible they can do this but it was my mistake to bother using them.  It was a USA company and I was sending dollars but apparently they didnt like it or it should have been cheaper

At this time, bitcoin value is 100% speculation, it's nothing more than gambling. Maybe someday people will actually use it for what it was designed to be used for - spending. Maybe then, it will have gained some inherent value as a tool. Now? it's the joke of the outside world, and a gamble for anyone playing with it.

I would be very, very happy to take yours or anybody else's dirty worthless fiat off your hands. Let me know your Paypal address and I will send a request. We both know that won't happen though, because we know you are full of shit. The USD is about to enter a period of deflation, fyi.

Depends where you live but bitcoin can be more stable then the available national currency.   Nobody would refuse the dirty worthless bitcoin either, if its free its good.   The USD has inflation higher then its national base rate of interest, this rate cannot be raised in line with inflation as it is linked to 20 trillion of debt.   Much of this debt is short term, the government cannot pay its budget outgoings without issuing more debt, increasing the ceiling to its debt in order to pay the debt.    
I also think this is straight forward, its unlikely either political party will return the fiscal budget to surplus, will run a trade surplus, will repay the debt or will be able to raise interest rates above inflation.   USD mostly relies on foreign use and holders of its currency in order to continue a stable course, its unknown how that will result but I think the currency will be weak not self determined.
If you earn and hold a weak currency, hedging your bets with another less impaired asset is quite a sensible gamble.   Most buy a house but a small amount of bitcoin for cash isnt unwise if its usable and practical and it is

[chesthing]

He excluded popular addresses and I presume is not including exchange volume which is internal to that system, its not recorded on the blockchain till it exits the exchange to another address.  

The same coins being exchanged on the blockchain by different users is monetary velocity which is very high for bitcoin I believe and it adds value to the market cap of the whole system.   Each transaction has a purpose, we cant assume everyone is pretending to have a purpose to their use of bitcoin.
   If bitcoin is reliably conveying value across the globe and for really low cost, no foreign exchange fees is really useful.   This is a product with an easy to see utility to it, it literally saves me money to use bitcoin and its amazing if I can find another user to exchange value with.   Neither of us needs to be paying bank fees.   Everytime that happens its reducing costs, improving value for bitcoin I think.  Isnt that just normal considered use for anyone in the world, nothing complicated to argue about.

Last time I used a bank to pay somebody 3,000 miles away they ended costing me 7% fees, incredible they can do this but it was my mistake to bother using them.  It was a USA company and I was sending dollars but apparently they didnt like it or it should have been cheaper

At this time, bitcoin value is 100% speculation, it's nothing more than gambling. Maybe someday people will actually use it for what it was designed to be used for - spending. Maybe then, it will have gained some inherent value as a tool. Now? it's the joke of the outside world, and a gamble for anyone playing with it.

I would be very, very happy to take yours or anybody else's dirty worthless fiat off your hands. Let me know your Paypal address and I will send a request. We both know that won't happen though, because we know you are full of shit. The USD is about to enter a period of deflation, fyi.

Depends where you live but bitcoin can be more stable then the available national currency.   Nobody would refuse the dirty worthless bitcoin either, if its free its good.   The USD has inflation higher then its national base rate of interest, this rate cannot be raised in line with inflation as it is linked to 20 trillion of debt.   Much of this debt is short term, the government cannot pay its budget outgoings without issuing more debt, increasing the ceiling to its debt in order to pay the debt.    
I also think this is straight forward, its unlikely either political party will return the fiscal budget to surplus, will run a trade surplus, will repay the debt or will be able to raise interest rates above inflation.   USD mostly relies on foreign use and holders of its currency in order to continue a stable course, its unknown how that will result but I think the currency will be weak not self determined.
If you earn and hold a weak currency, hedging your bets with another less impaired asset is quite a sensible gamble.   Most buy a house but a small amount of bitcoin for cash isnt unwise if its usable and practical and it is

What you say makes sense, but sometimes things are counterintutive. Just because the US government holds lots of debt doesn't mean USD will become inflated. It's actually scarce among the average person working their ass off in the US to pay bills. What is more important to look at is it's relation to other currencies to see it's value, and it's looking good. I think deflation and a legit depression actually is pretty likely in the near future, rather than hyperinflation. The reason they don't raise interest rates is not because it is "linked to $20trillion in debt", it is because they are fighting the onset of deflation. They don't want people saving their money, they want them spending and investing it to keep the economy going.
As far as bitcoin, yes you are correct it makes sense to send it across continents compared to something retarded like a wire transfer. However, you still pay fees on both ends, and for the most part each party is wanting to transfer back to fiat, which adds more fees and steps.

[r0ach]

Bitcoin going up, 85 cents spread between US and China on silver, and US officially outed as a banana republic by wikileaks with (((media and bankers))) trying to rig the election = the end is near.

[MatDerKater]

Bitcoin going up, 85 cents spread between US and China on silver, and US officially outed as a banana republic by wikileaks with (((media and bankers))) trying to rig the election = the end is near.

But media and establishment politicians are simply ignoring the wikileaks revelations (although the Trump campaign certainly aren't), and the election will be rigged, Hillary will get into power, the populace shall whine and bitch before eventually going back to sleep, and Hillary will start a war with Russia, which will cause strength in the dollar and weakness in other currencies, such as the Ruble, and the Renminbi.......


.....as you know....I have zero long term faith in Bitcoin and I have experienced first hand that none of the major price discovery facilities (i.e. the exchanges) can be trusted. With that said, I could see Bitcoin getting up to $1500 with it's next big drive up.....so am bullish on Bitcoin, although I amn't holding any (or not much) and shall never do so ever again.

[r0ach]

Hillary will get into power, the populace shall whine and bitch before eventually going back to sleep, and Hillary will start a war with Russia, which will cause strength in the dollar and weakness in other currencies, such as the Ruble, and the Renminbi.......

THE MAT THE CAT REVERSE INDICATOR ON ELECTION IS IN.

The r0ach direct indicator is also in:

Dow down, metals and bitcoin up on Hillary being re-indicted news.  When Trump wins, in order to re-industrialize America he has to devalue the dollar.  The easiest way to do that when you're the world reserve currency is to stop manipulating gold and silver downwards and let them run loose.  Expect metals to skyrocket when Trump wins, and Bitcoin will probably go up on a weakened dollar too.  Of course, everything in Comex and the ETFs is unallocated and leveraged 50-100:1, so unless you physically hold it you have nothing.

[STT]

Just because the US government holds lots of debt doesn't mean USD will become inflated. It's actually scarce among the average person working their ass off in the US to pay bills.

I think the literal expansion of US debt is more dollars, hence inflation.    Every US treasury bond promises to pay out a set number of dollars, whats actually happened in the past is to delay that payback date.    So they take out a new loan to renew the now expiring debt and not only does the treasury do this they also issue new bonds to cover the debt interest that was owed.   On top of that the treasury is also running a deficit and issues even more promises to pay new dollars in order to cover the gap in the budget and tax take.

All of that is covered up by the QE programs, an inside man who will buy all new debt issued no matter the reasoning behind it.   This owner of debt has no assets, nothing to give in exchange for the debt that has been bought but is in control of dollars issued and expands the monetary base in order to include its new found wealth and ability to buy debt.    All of this is inflation, the government never runs short of money and FED never actually produces the notes physically but its inflation of the total dollars used and by at least the old definition this is inflation.    The new definition ignores inflation until certain prices rise

I do believe the average person does not have alot of money.  As a proportion of the economy, the government is larger then ever not through enterprise but monopoly of dollar production.   This isnt capitalism, people with normal income are poorer just from the % taken at source by government from dollar worth. 
Large business with large debt issuance are less effected

[Torque]

So... how's that Gold price been working out for ya lately, Mat?  

[r0ach]

So... how's that Gold price been working out for ya lately, Mat?  

The MatTheCatGartman reverse indicator even worked for the election:

Hillary will get into power, the populace shall whine and bitch before eventually going back to sleep, and Hillary will start a war with Russia, which will cause strength in the dollar and weakness in other currencies, such as the Ruble, and the Renminbi.......

and r0ach direct indicator:

When Trump wins

Although I didn't expect them to be able to manipulate metals down when they should be going up with helicopter money Trump.  Look at the fucking absurd news titles they're running that make zero sense:

"Gold Prices Plummet 6% as Trump Win Fuels Risk"

Risk up and gold down? LOL.  

[Torque]

So... how's that Gold price been working out for ya lately, Mat?  

The MatTheCatGartman reverse indicator even worked for the election:

Hillary will get into power, the populace shall whine and bitch before eventually going back to sleep, and Hillary will start a war with Russia, which will cause strength in the dollar and weakness in other currencies, such as the Ruble, and the Renminbi.......

and r0ach direct indicator:

When Trump wins

Although I didn't expect them to be able to manipulate metals down when they should be going up with helicopter money Trump.  Look at the fucking absurd news titles they're running that make zero sense:

"Gold Prices Plummet 6% as Trump Win Fuels Risk"

Risk up and gold down? LOL.  

Well, that manipulation is all on purpose.  You see, Wall Street controls the Gold derivatives market too, and can yank that lever up or down whenever they like.  Before the impending stock market crash that IS coming #soon, they first need Average Joe to come in and buy their over-inflated shares that they have been levitating for 2 years now.  Retail investors are ALWAYS the ones left holding the bag in a rally/crash, but currently Average Joe is sitting on the sidelines, and sitting on his money.  

Wall Street needs one last epic rally, needs the market to charge higher early next year, in order to give the "All Clear" signal to retail investors that everything is fine, that the world economy is finally turning around, and to finally jump in and take their expensive shares off their hands because everything is returning to normal.  Then out of the blue, a stock crash will come, shocking everyone but the Wall Street insiders.

My theory is that if the stock markets DO rally next year, a rally would have happened with EITHER candidate winning the presidency. It's entirely possible that Bitcoin will benefit from a stock market rally too, just like it did in 2013.

[Torque]

So... how's that Gold price been working out for ya lately, Mat?  

Ohhhhhh Ma-yatt dat Gold price doh    

[r0ach]

Ohhhhhh Ma-yatt dat Gold price doh    

Silver is holding up.  The spread is $1.52 between US and China so the jews can't naked short manipulate it down anymore.  RIP jew manipulation.

Mat also doesn't understand that only a fool would buy gold over silver when the gold to silver ratio is over 50:1 (it's currently 70:1 - meaning silver is way undervalued compared to gold).

[r0ach]

The MatDerKater account guy claims he's MatTheCat and that his old account was hacked, but he's refusing to sign a message to prove it

The 'new' matthecat writes like a typical google translate moron.

Was MatTheMat kidnapped by the NSA due to his reverse indicator being too accurate?

[MatDerKater]

The MatDerKater account guy claims he's MatTheCat and that his old account was hacked, but he's refusing to sign a message to prove it

The 'new' matthecat writes like a typical google translate moron.

Was MatTheMat kidnapped by the NSA due to his reverse indicator being too accurate?

I said some time ago that BTC was going to $1500......and it is surely on it's way there.....give or take a brutal correction or two along the way.....

But of course, since getting robbed by Finex (and Kraken), I have ceased to give a flying fuck about Bitcoin, and hence am in no trade, long or short.


Cesspool of sharks and crooks, and totally manipulated by shady little yellow bastards, 10 times more devious and cunning than any Wall St Zionist Jew Banker. Beware the yellow peril u red neck hick stupid dumb white american n00bs.

@gentlemand......I wouldn't even know how to sign anything......yeah, my account was hacked and used to con some retards out of some Bitcoin (Hurr durr, hey guys, I got a get rich quick scheme for ya.....send me some coin and I will let ya in on it...Hurr Durr).....just another example of Bitcoin being a cesspool full of shit and pish.

P.S. Trump your president r0ach? I wanted him to win also, but only cos the alternative was Hillary and almost certain hot war with Russia...... How you feeling about Trump having such a big hard on for Israel?

[talkingleaves]

you're screwing yourself out of a huge opportunity over a silly grudge. to sum up what you just said in one little sentence.

[r0ach]

P.S. Trump your president r0ach? I wanted him to win also, but only cos the alternative was Hillary and almost certain hot war with Russia...... How you feeling about Trump having such a big hard on for Israel?

He has a bunch of Jews in his family, but even I have one that married into my extended family.  Having said that, 150,000 Jews did fight for Hitler in WW2, so maybe a few will fight under Trump.  It feels like Trump is just giving them free reign to do whatever they want in the middle east to appease their constant crying, while at the same time attacking their media monopolies and possibly actually doing something about the financial system at home (but who knows).  

Are you aware of the whole FOA/FOFOA "freegold" theory?  What's your input on my analysis of freegold vs silver vs bitcoin:

https://steemit.com/money/@r0achtheunsavory/if-there-s-any-plausible-conspiracy-involving-silver-and-bitcoin-this-is-it

[piramida]

just another example of Bitcoin being a cesspool full of shit and pish.

Oh Mat you are still so funny, blaming bitcoin for what is simply human nature. Don't want to get cheated - don't play cheaters game. Bitcoin has absolutely nothing to do with finex or any of the exchanges.

PS Trades in the last two years: zero. Energy spent: zero. Profit (paper): +300%. Speculative position closing target: $2500. Stoploss: $100. That is how you trade bitcoin.

[r0ach]

Speculative position closing target: $2500. Stoploss: $100. That is how you trade bitcoin.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say a 90% retrace stop loss is not how you trade Bitcoin.

[podyx]

How much did you lose on finex? I thought it was insured?

[piramida]

Speculative position closing target: $2500. Stoploss: $100. That is how you trade bitcoin.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say a 90% retrace stop loss is not how you trade Bitcoin.

Yes it is. Of course not on margin and not intraday. Too volatile still. There are few traders who do well in intraday, and to beat just following bitcoin's obvious multi-year trend (aka hodling) by intraday trading over several years you have to be very good, top 1%. So bitcoin (and crypto in general) you trade by: removing your funds from exchanges. Transfer back only to sell multi-year peaks, or buy multi-year lows. Or get burned, like Mat here.

Of course, if you are a professional trader and can beat 100% yearly appreciation even with the added risk of your funds being stolen at an exchange, then by all means, do it ) For the rest of us, and at this stage of bitcoin history, just holding is a much better bet.