THE RISE AND RISE OF MONERO

[electronicash]

I hope the Rise and Rise of Monero go on for years as I have bought some when I felt that it has all the strength of going to the top.
It is the 4th most favorite altcoin to buy from the people only behind Etc, Litecoin and dash so I hope that the price of monero gradually increase and become the future Bitcoin.

it may possibly be. i don't expect much, its current price is good enough but if it doubles, the better.
if it becomes like bitcoin like more than 1k, its going to be a huge upset for those who expect eth to be the top. they are expect it to be though because is a platform.

[dinofelis]

Because you think your bitcoin private keys are safe ?

Because public transparency is what supports their value, not time-bombed clumsy layers of obfuscation.

I knew your non-sequitur arguments were going to end up here

Your argument against "time bombed obfuscation" is exactly the same as the argument that tells people not to encrypt anything, that way it will not be cracked one day.  Use http, not https, because it might get cracked.  Don't use encrypted passwords, they will get cracked.  But in the same vein, don't use digital signatures, they will be cracked too.  And then, you cannot use it to prove your ownership of coins, because others can do that too.

In other words, your arguments against using cryptography, because one day it may get cracked, are valid for ALL cryptography, including using encrypted communication, encrypted data, and, of course, crypto currencies, including bitcoin.

So the argument that cryptography shouldn't be used, because it is not safe (a bug, a powerful attacker, advances in crypto analysis, an error of principle....) also invalidates the value of bitcoin.   If you think that, say, 6 years from now, all bitcoin addresses can be cracked and their digital signatures obtained, then bitcoin should not be used as its monetary belief is based upon the digital signatures being safe.  If you think that just any sophisticated hacker can get into just any computer to steal secret keys, then bitcoin will not be usable either.    So the argument that cryptography will be cracked and should not be used, is an argument that makes bitcoin worthless too, and you shouldn't any form of crypto currency.

With that problem resolved, we accept that cryptography works (or we get out of crypto currencies).  The chance of the cryptography of ring signatures being broken, is of the same order as the chance of digital signatures being broken: it is more or less similar cryptography.  So if one can deanonymize the ring signatures, that comes down being able to deduce digital signatures if one knows bitcoin addresses too.  If bugs can happen, they can happen in any piece of code, so in bitcoin's code too.

Once we accept that ring signatures are just as safe as bitcoin signatures, there's nothing that makes that transparent block chains are more "certain" than digitally ring-signed block chains.  In both cases, you accept that the signature proves cryptographically the correctness of the underlying claim.  In the case of a bitcoin signature, you accept that the signature was produced by *the* owner of the unspent transaction output address secret key.  In the case of a ring signature, you accept that the signature was produced by an owner of an unspent transaction output address.  The ring signature cannot be produced correctly if the unspend transaction output was, in fact, spend (the rest of the block chain would signal that), in exactly the same way as you verify explicitly in the bitcoin block chain that this unspent output was, well, unspent.  The ring signature doesn't work if it was spent.  So you know it wasn't spent.  The only thing you don't know is WHICH ONE it was.  But that shouldn't matter.  The only thing you need to know is that AN unspent output was used, and that this very signature is going to signal now that this output is not going to be able to make another ring signature.  Exactly as with bitcoin.

Now, if you think that the cryptography is not working, then you shouldn't believe either, that the digital signatures of bitcoin work.  Why would you believe digital signatures of bitcoin, and not ring signatures of monero ?  And the cryptography is such, if you accept it, that only one single previous unspent output can produce the right ring signature, and by doing so, will signal that this output cannot be re-used for another ring signature.  That's all that is needed.   It is because Satoshi didn't know enough cryptography that he showed the explicit outputs and inputs.  But the only thing that he needed, was the proof that an output was spent only once.  Ring signatures prove this in the same way that digital signatures prove ownership of the secret key.

So, in summary:
- if you start from the idea that cryptography cannot be correctly implemented, will always contain essential bugs, and/or will always end up being cracked, then you shouldn't, ever, use cryptography, not for monero, nor for bitcoin, nor for https nor for passwords.
- if you start from the idea that no electronic device will ever be safe, then: same conclusions.

If you think that one can use bitcoin's code, cryptography, and secret keys, then there's no reason not to accept the cryptographic proofs of no double spend by ring signatures or the proofs of possession by secret key by ring signatures.  That's the only thing a block chain is used for: proving the absence of double spends and prove the right to spend using digital signatures with secret keys.

In other words, in as much as you accept cryptography, the monetary functions of cryptography on the monero block chain are the same as those on the bitcoin block chain (proving "right to spend" and proving no double spend).  And in as much as you think that cryptography is a failure, then you shouldn't use nor monero, nor bitcoin.

[toknormal]

So the argument that cryptography shouldn't be used, because it is not safe

That wasn't the the central point. The central point was that encryption is appropriately applied to either personal records or contractually defined money where ownership is both nominated and distinct from possession. If, on the other hand, you encrypt an un-nominated bearer token, the encryption is redundant. All you're doing is obfuscating critical blockchain properties and adding a new layer riddled with toxic exploits. In Bitcoin, transactions can only be de-anonymised off-chain. In Monero, they can still be de-anonymised off-chain despite its encryption.

Now, if you think that the cryptography is not working then you shouldn't believe either, that the digital signatures of bitcoin work

Agreed. That's why its blockchain balances are transparent.

If something doesn't square in one place, it won't square somewhere else and a global awareness of the blockchain state can quickly come to a consensus over what's happening. When you've got a thick layer of obfuscating nonsense stuck between the blockchain and its users (keyholders or non-keyholders) all you have is confusion and - ultimately - nothing.

[dinofelis]

That wasn't the the central point. The central point was that encryption is appropriately applied to either personal records or contractually defined money where ownership is both nominated and distinct from possession. If, on the other hand, you encrypt an un-nominated bearer token, the encryption is redundant.

No, it is not redundant.  It is necessary.  The only thing that is NEEDED on a block chain, is to know that there was a "right to spend" and that there are no double spends.  However, the naive way in which bitcoin's block chain is coded, conveys much, much more information, and this extra information has no monetary function, but is harmful.

It is even monetarily harmful, as it destroys fungibility.  All monetary assets are only fungible, if the ONLY thing you know about them, is that they are one of the monetary assets.  From the moment you know more than that about a monetary asset, they are distinguishable, and hence, by definition, not fungible any more.   This has no monetary consequences, as long as the value of one coin of the asset is not any different from another coin of the asset.  But when things like former owners play a role in the value assignation, or the spendability, fungibility is gone.

But on top of that, it propagates partial out-of-chain real world knowledge.  The fact that one can trace back the transactions of a given coin back to its creation, makes that whenever a previous owner is known at some point, this knowledge is propagated.  If I were to own a coin that was part of Hitler's personal wallet, that would be an unsettling thing, wouldn't it.  It means that I did business with someone who did business with ... with Hitler.  One could even frown upon me to have indirectly accepted value that came from this horrible man.

This is an ACCIDENT of the bitcoin block chain.  This is not needed, and harmful.  It is because the bitcoin mechanism is too simplistic and naive, that all this extra knowledge is visible.  Yes, we need to know that the right to spend was there, and yes we need to know that there wasn't a double spend.  But THAT'S ALL.  All the rest is harmful.  Bitcoin's mechanism is giving out much more information than just "right to spend" is OK and "no double spend".  It gives the god damned history of possession of every coin !  I don't want to know that I hold a coin that came from Hitler's wallet.  And I certainly don't want others to know that I hold a coin that came from Hitler's wallet.  And I certainly don't want the guy who I'm going to pay with that coin, to know that.  But bitcoin fails to hide this.

[toknormal]

...this extra information has no monetary function, but is harmful.

It is even monetarily harmful, as it destroys fungibility....the bitcoin mechanism is too simplistic and naive, that all this extra knowledge is visible....I don't want to know that I hold a coin that came from Hitler's wallet.

wtf.

Take it easy. It's not a medicine you're having forced on you.

I think I'll leave you to your windmills

[Spoetnik]

He thinks this is an anon debate. 
Read the topic title and then post Dino.

Further more your ranting about Bitcoin is bullshit.
Or.. there would be no dark market at all.

- Bitcoin + optional mixing.
- Anon coin + optional anon feature.

case closed.

[B8888]

XMR has the potential to go beyond DASH. XMR is the last good coin out there imo. XMR is lost in a sea of coins with 0 use case.

[owlcatz]

XMR has the potential to go beyond DASH. XMR is the last good coin out there imo. XMR is lost in a sea of coins with 0 use case.

DSH has only whales and marketing ... So, yes I'm in agreement, thank you.

[kolap]

The rise and rise it is

[Dafar]

Is XMR gonna join the Dash pump soon?



 

[CyanFox]

Is XMR gonna join the Dash pump soon?



 

IMO no, XMR had epic pump in last year, and this year it is Dash's turn, so we have to keep focus on XMR, maybe this year, or next year, will be a huge pump.

[dinofelis]

Is XMR gonna join the Dash pump soon?

I seriously hope not.  This is bringing too much visibility, too much speculation.

[altseeker]

Is XMR gonna join the Dash pump soon?

I seriously hope not.  This is bringing too much visibility, too much speculation.

We'll never know for sure, anything can happen all of a sudden and most of the time we couldn't see it coming.

[Spoetnik]

XMR has the potential to go beyond DASH. XMR is the last good coin out there imo. XMR is lost in a sea of coins with 0 use case.

DSH has only whales and marketing ... So, yes I'm in agreement, thank you.

I guess you are not familiar with rpietila's MEW topic and how he felt personally that using the donators money with out permission was best spent on a forum game here.

He said it was a "powerful adoption asset"

So.. you can safely deduce in this guys infinite wisdom that the best use for money is..
A forum game topic here.
Hey i laughed at Doge guys for the Nascar shit but at least it *WAS* actually ADVERTISING.
And not keyword shilling on theTalk for Google keyword rankings as a side effect of your hobby game collecting unicorns for cash. (he happily bragged to me personally about making thousands on his previous forum game just like the MEW one on Polo chat way back)
See Polonibox for proof
Be warned though he likes to change his name.
And asking around Polo is not wise.. it's a den of thieves there pushing Monero since it's inception.

And get this.. he actually did that <mentioned above>.
Then later claimed some of the MEW money was going to pay the devs.
And he also admitted before to paying the devs' out of pocket.
What can we deduce from that ?
Well.. the idiots behind Monero claim he is "not apart of the team" and bad mouth him behind his back.
Such as smoothie on IRC Cryptsy channel on Freenode last year.
But it seems to me.. He is the leader  
He pays the fucking devs for christ sakes guys ! hahahhaha
Then..
The they also claim that David Latapie is "not apart of the team"
And who was the MEW treasurer ? yup.. Dave.  
So he gave the fucking money to rpietila.. who did not get anyone's input into spending it on a forum game here.. and when asked about it by his donators he called them FUD'ers.
Then.. the "Not a part of the team" Davey was actually in hiding for a couple months and yes that was denied too and later admitted simultaneously... which people were asking whee the donated money was...
(see above MEW link for proof)
When he came back he had a long sob story he refused to explain but *DID* mention starting a...

MONERO MARKETING COMPANY

And when i quoted him talking about it here twice and the French Police Investigation he mentioned.
They attacked me and ruined my rating saying i lied.
But all i did was quote the "not a team member" David Latapie.

And get this.. who was it that was an employee of Mr. Reptiela ?
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup David Latapie ..who i was told by close sources that he was paid to work on his "powerful adoption asset" forum game here.
Which i might add i reported to staff on day 1 because i knew it was advertising and later Risto even admitted it.. saying it's and i quote yet again "A powerful adoption asset"
And yet to my amazement and the infinite wisdom of staff here it STILL sits here for those shill's to bump incessantly like they use to do with the Speculation topic (that was moved after 3 yrs of bumps to page one 24 hours a day)
1,392 fucking pages of pointless spam garbage they bumped to fuck & back here !

It's also kind of funny too because they use to spam this place hard way back trying to "advertise"
It caused a revolt long ago where the forum got pissed off.. and they claimed they were leaving this place because it was bullshit etc.
All they did was wait till the heat died down and tried to keep doing it (Advertise) more & more ..to this very day !
And in countless discussions here they have bent over backwards claiming they have never advertised here... EVER.

A bold face blatant lie of epic fucking proportions.

Oh and they said lots of other shit to me too such as defending their security as seen on the Hoody sweater David "Not a part of the team" Latapie was wearing in an advertising photo saying that their coin is secure.
When i said it can't be 100% and forever etc and WHY.. they called me a troll and attacked me.
Then what did none other than fluffypony say himself ?
What i said when their Gambling Monero BUSINESS was hacked.
So.. apparently when i say it i am a Troll.. when fluffypony says it ?

The kicker is their damage control routine.
MEW ? Refund.. sweep.. rug.
Gambling site hack ? Refund.. sweep.. rug.

Nope there is no problems.. nope ..not here LOL
You must be seeing things or hallucinating.. nothing happened here ..keep walking guys !

So owlcatz..
Your little jab about "Marketing" is a rotten festering, moldy load of crypto-bullshit bud.
The Monero idiots have done everything they can think of to spam the fuck out of the world..
and failed miserably.

I suggest you come to terms with the reality here.
Stick to bragging about uber elite Dark Market usage for Pedo shit, Fentanyl & Cocaine and machine guns for Terrorists and then hand your picture ID over to Poloniex for some govt controlled/compliant ROI's.
Just make sure your Tardero profits are paid for
http://www.coindesk.com/irs-bitcoin-tax-guidelines-mean/
Ya wouldn't want to get an IRS audit then find out they summoned your records etc from Polo over your "ANON" coin activity  

Oh and i provided 7 reference links here.. READ THEM !
Enough of this playing dumb bullshit routine crying "FUD" and "Troll"  

[canth]

rpietila blah blah blah David Latapie blah blah marketing blah lies blah blah
I like cats

Sorry, I don't read ragespeak well - my eyes glazed over after the first couple of incoherent paragraphs. Can you TLDR wtf you're talking about, plz? K thx.

[Febo]

The best Marketing Monero have is http://monero.stackexchange.com/

Spoetnik you keep living in past. Mew was opened and no one was active in it and was closed after like a month. Monero had way bigger problems at that time then was inactive MEW country club. lol

I think that forum game is also more or less past. Trolbox is a present. Nice that you provide us link so we can read what people chat there  LOL.

Then link to your crying that smoothie added to your  bad reputation. I said he "added" since  Vod gave it to you before him. So link to one of most stupid thread you ever started. About one guy who was frauded and you bend it the way that it looked like he was frauding.


Then a link to a gambling site hack.


And finally something useful to a coindesk article.


Well done. In 7th try you made it!!   OMG, article is also from 2014. Come on man!  Nothing not even one useful link? Nada?  Next time just put Stackexchange link you have there 1,290 questions and
1,812   answers. Lots of them are real problems Monero is facing today and will in future.


Oh and to not be so much oftopic. Monero is still on a rise.  The Rise and Rise of Monero is constant.

[Spoetnik]

rpietila blah blah blah David Latapie blah blah marketing blah lies blah blah
I like cats

Sorry, I don't read ragespeak well - my eyes glazed over after the first couple of incoherent paragraphs. Can you TLDR wtf you're talking about, plz? K thx.

You are one of them.. so no i couldn't care less if you pretend you can't read.

Oh and the ole "you're mad" retort ?
My all time favorite.. a true classic here.
You should have went with "You're jealous" maybe though.

Who's "angry" with rage ? apparently you because you replied back with an aggressive insulting remark.
Ignoring 100% of what i said doing nothing but trying to discredit me instead of refuting anything i said with the 7 links i posted with proof backing up my god damn fucking mouth.

So ?
Where did Mr Dash spent money on Marketing (unlike Monero) guy go ?
Surprise surprise he took off with his tail between his legs and the Shill brigade rolled in.

Monero is a retarded clown show.
Good luck with that profiteers.. maybe send your Picture ID to Polo then do some gambling on fluffy's site ?
Just remember everything gets hacked so, you know.. cross your fingers you get a refund and some excuses later (if your lucky)

Oh and if you win big gambling you can buy crack on DM's with Monero then maybe go spend a shit-ton of money buying a Unicorn named Sprinkles on Risto's "Powerful Adoption Asset" Retro City forum game here.. YOU ALL PAID FOR !

hmmm.. how much has he made off it so far ?

I've never seen such blatant idiocy.
The Monero gang wander around acting like lippy assholes bumping into ROI's like silly bafoons crying all along that Dash is stealing their thunder bullshitting their ass off and denying it all year long year after year.
Desperate to lure in more cult victims 

Rise ?
What changed in this topic since it started ?
The price went up & down some.. and their gambling site was hacked.
And ?
What part of the price means fuck all did you not get earlier ?

[iCEBREAKER]

encryption is

Stopped reading right there.

You are the last person I'd listen to about "encryption."

Cryptography has never been a significant part of cryptocurrency - even though it may share the first few letters. It works on a system of digital signatures.

It would seem that you actually do not understand what cryptography is in the modern sense.

Compared to you, even Tante is Alan Bloody Turing.   

[aminorex]

Actually I don't recall anything done by the Monero devs to encourage anyone to buy Monero.  Risto maybe.  Me maybe.  Just trying to help my friends and family achieve financial Independence and security, yo.  Working pretty well too. 50x-100x upside remaining before I dredge the lake looking for my lost USB key.

[Hueristic]

Actually I don't recall anything done by the Monero devs to encourage anyone to buy Monero.  Risto maybe.  Me maybe.  Just trying to help my friends and family achieve financial Independence and security, yo.  Working pretty well too. 50x-100x upside remaining before I dredge the lake looking for my lost USB key.

Let me know when you want to go diving for that buried treasure.