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Question: Do you agree with idea "Bitcoin bank" ?
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Author Topic: Do you agree with idea "Bitcoin bank" ?  (Read 139509 times)
Senor.Bla
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December 15, 2016, 02:31:40 PM
 #681

And here comes a thing called fractional reserve into play. let us say you deposited $100, then this means that they can give someone else a loan of up to $1000. they take your $100 and just make the other $900 up. They act like they have more money then they really have. This is a scam to me, but it is legal. So even if someone asks only for a loan of $100, they will not give them your $100, but take $10 of your $100 as reserve and make the other $90 up, so they can loan out $100 and keep your $90 for someone es who is willing to take out a loan. They do this because this is how they make money. They create money. They want you to take a loan

I suspect that you don't quite understand how the fractional reserve banking works. If we talk about Bitcoin, they can lend only as much as you put in a bank minus the reserves, otherwise they will be abusing the system. With fiat, they don't need deposits altogether to make loans, so the FRB is utterly irrelevant in this case. Banks in a banking system with a central bank can create money "on the fly", they are only limited by one side, and that side is the number of borrowers willing to take a loan from a bank, not depositors willing to give a loan to a bank. If the number of eligible borrowers is infinite, banks will create infinite amount of money (with the Central bank being a "reserve"). This is an intended feature of the system...

You can safely forget what you had been taught in economics classes about modern banking
I made the mistake of talking about fiat and not Bitcoin to explain the current bank system, but i will explain at the end how this would apply to Bitcoin. First let me explain what i think is right and how the banks work, since i think we disagree on that point and will not be able to figure out who is right.

In order to make a loan you need some money

Banks don't need any money to create a loan

This is the assumption which makes all your further considerations irrelevant. Once you accept that, you will see how the modern banking system works. Banks don't need deposits of their clients at all to make loans. You will have to accept this, since this is how the system based on fiat works today. Whenever someone is granted a loan, it gets immediately credited to his bank account, and the balance of the bank is increased by this amount. The new money has just been created, basically out of nothing. Banks create deposits from loans as easily as they had been creating loans from deposits before
Well, then this is the point where we disagree. Just like mentioned i do not see us figuring this one out as we both believe the other one is wrong. I think a bank needs some money in order to give out loan, which does not have to come from deposits, like i tried to explain.

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December 15, 2016, 02:37:58 PM
 #682

And here comes a thing called fractional reserve into play. let us say you deposited $100, then this means that they can give someone else a loan of up to $1000. they take your $100 and just make the other $900 up. They act like they have more money then they really have. This is a scam to me, but it is legal. So even if someone asks only for a loan of $100, they will not give them your $100, but take $10 of your $100 as reserve and make the other $90 up, so they can loan out $100 and keep your $90 for someone es who is willing to take out a loan. They do this because this is how they make money. They create money. They want you to take a loan

I suspect that you don't quite understand how the fractional reserve banking works. If we talk about Bitcoin, they can lend only as much as you put in a bank minus the reserves, otherwise they will be abusing the system. With fiat, they don't need deposits altogether to make loans, so the FRB is utterly irrelevant in this case. Banks in a banking system with a central bank can create money "on the fly", they are only limited by one side, and that side is the number of borrowers willing to take a loan from a bank, not depositors willing to give a loan to a bank. If the number of eligible borrowers is infinite, banks will create infinite amount of money (with the Central bank being a "reserve"). This is an intended feature of the system...

You can safely forget what you had been taught in economics classes about modern banking
I made the mistake of talking about fiat and not Bitcoin to explain the current bank system, but i will explain at the end how this would apply to Bitcoin. First let me explain what i think is right and how the banks work, since i think we disagree on that point and will not be able to figure out who is right.

In order to make a loan you need some money

Banks don't need any money to create a loan

This is the assumption which makes all your further considerations irrelevant. Once you accept that, you will see how the modern banking system works. Banks don't need deposits of their clients at all to make loans. You will have to accept this, since this is how the system based on fiat works today. Whenever someone is granted a loan, it gets immediately credited to his bank account, and the balance of the bank is increased by this amount. The new money has just been created, basically out of nothing. Banks create deposits from loans as easily as they had been creating loans from deposits before
Well, then this is the point where we disagree. Just like mentioned i do not see us figuring this one out as we both believe the other one is wrong. I think a bank needs some money in order to give out loan, which does not have to come from deposits, like i tried to explain.

The money you are talking about may be needed if the borrower wants cash (and the bank itself doesn't want to borrow it)

As long as there is no cash in the equation, there is no difference whether someone transferred money to his deposit account in a bank from another bank, or the bank itself credited this account in the case that person took a loan from the bank. The bank literally creates money out of nothing, all it needs is an eligible borrower willing to take a loan. Just think about the case when there is no cash involved and no reserve requirements set at all. People tend to complicate things a lot when they don't quite understand how something actually works. The fiat system itself is pretty simply organized once you get rid of distracting parameters

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December 15, 2016, 03:29:48 PM
 #683

Recently, i often see discussion about Bitcoin Bank. More and more people come here and ask about bitcoin bank & surprisingly i see few user agree with this idea.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.

Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.

Xapo, Coinbase and Circle, they are all "bitcoin banks", if someone doesn't like them, they don't have to use them...
There is nothing to lose I think if bitcoin banks such as xapo or coinbase and not conventional bank which we know not accept bitcoin yet. Bitcoin banks that provide diverse services likes wallet, make buying and selling digital currency easy and bitcoin debit card or atm card seems good to get involve. Until now those online platform proven give advantages to their customers and so secure to storing bitcoin.
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December 15, 2016, 03:52:09 PM
 #684

i agree with the idea of bitcoin bank i think that at the time bitcoin has it own bank it will be the best time for more people to know more about bitcoin and it will also help to bots the economy of the nation  and there will be more transaction for bitcoin  and as such the nation and every one will want to accept bitcoin.
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December 15, 2016, 06:00:49 PM
 #685

This is a great idea. Of course I was very happy to hear this information. I can get the services that will make me able to save bitcoin. but there should be a institutions arranging to be able make this reliable service Bitcoin BANK.


There are two reasons for people depositing any kind of money into a bank; Securing assets, and earning interest. If any bank could offer advanced security features, for securing Bitcoin, or if they were to declare that deposited Bitcoins are secured (by the government) up to a certain amount, then some people might consider it. But depositing Bitcoins into a bank would undermine anonymity, which is one of the great advantages of Bitcoin.

As for earning interest on Bitcoins, that doesn't really need to be done via a bank. Any online lending service, that acts as an intermediary between a borrower and a lender, could fulfill that role.
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December 15, 2016, 06:36:07 PM
 #686

Whenever someone is granted a loan, it gets immediately credited to his bank account, and the balance of the bank is increased by this amount. The new money has just been created, basically out of nothing. Banks create deposits from loans as easily as they had been creating loans from deposits before
dude.. i don't know where are you from and how things work there, but here where i live it isn't that way(and i'm a banker)...
banks don't create money, they cant loan funds they dont have it(that would be a crime to be more precise).

the reason they "always" have money is:
1. they use money from the clients. the money i deposit there becomes a number on the screen and the real money goes to another client.
2. they have a system which connects the whole financial system. if one banks loan all their reserve, they will borrow from another bank(with a better tax than the client of course.)

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December 15, 2016, 06:55:39 PM
 #687

Whenever someone is granted a loan, it gets immediately credited to his bank account, and the balance of the bank is increased by this amount. The new money has just been created, basically out of nothing. Banks create deposits from loans as easily as they had been creating loans from deposits before
dude.. i don't know where are you from and how things work there, but here where i live it isn't that way(and i'm a banker)...
banks don't create money, they cant loan funds they dont have it(that would be a crime to be more precise)

A banker is enrolled in a signature campaign... Go on mate, I'm all ears!

As for earning interest on Bitcoins, that doesn't really need to be done via a bank. Any online lending service, that acts as an intermediary between a borrower and a lender, could fulfill that role.

I've heard very bad things about these sites, namely, that borrowers there are mostly scammers. Really, what could be used as a collateral for online loans? I've also read people say that altcoins can be used, but it doesn't sound very plausible. Why not just sell them? The argument is that these altcoins may grow in the future, but so far I have seen them mostly going down or just outright turning into scams. I guess the process is very much like what those borrowers, which are offering these shit coins as collateral, end up with...

So, in a sense, offering these shit coins as collateral is just another way of selling them to silly buyers

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December 15, 2016, 08:29:24 PM
 #688

Maybe the bitcoins can be invested in various businesses? It would be nice if there's a way for people to pool their bits and invest it in a business and then receive dividends later, though I guess that would be hard to implement considering how anonymous bitcoin is.
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December 15, 2016, 09:33:37 PM
 #689

Maybe the bitcoins can be invested in various businesses? It would be nice if there's a way for people to pool their bits and invest it in a business and then receive dividends later, though I guess that would be hard to implement considering how anonymous bitcoin is.
People already make this with ico, funding several coins and then waiting those coins being traded, eth were one of them, and had made amazing results, i guess it jumped from 20k into 1 milion satoshis soo if you had waiting and holded your eth you would had made 50x your investment. As eth there are others altcoins coming and making sucess, shitty coins arent getting the support as last year, where anyone could create a coin and steall something like 5-20 btc from people. Bank of bitcoin wont happen, makes no sense to let a third person to come into bitcoin, fiat system has those already and its a waste of money nothing else.


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December 15, 2016, 11:12:13 PM
 #690

A banker is enrolled in a signature campaign... Go on mate, I'm all ears!
and why not? why should i do for free something that can be paid? i'll post around here with or without the signature, so again, why not?
and you didn't even tried to argue against what i said... what a joke.

ps:  i said i'm banker, not a millionaire or something like.
ps2: you're in a signature campaign too.

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December 15, 2016, 11:19:25 PM
 #691

Maybe the bitcoins can be invested in various businesses? It would be nice if there's a way for people to pool their bits and invest it in a business and then receive dividends later, though I guess that would be hard to implement considering how anonymous bitcoin is.

Of course it can be invested into different businesses and it depends on how much you are going to make, there are a various types of investments you can join, like this 
People already make this with ico, funding several coins and then waiting those coins being traded,
And also you can invest into the bankroll casino's of gambling sites but these type of investments doesn't need banks to regulate and for the distribution of profit.

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December 16, 2016, 01:25:45 AM
 #692

A banker is enrolled in a signature campaign... Go on mate, I'm all ears!
and why not? why should i do for free something that can be paid? i'll post around here with or without the signature, so again, why not?
and you didn't even tried to argue against what i said... what a joke.

ps:  i said i'm banker, not a millionaire or something like.
ps2: you're in a signature campaign too.

You work into a bank doesnt make you being more special then others, even with several beneficts you might have, why dont buy them directly, anyway the profession here isnt the question. Banks can provide an interest, but we dont need them at bitcoin since there are exchanges and casinos that already does provides interest for our bitcoins.


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December 16, 2016, 01:38:29 AM
 #693

Iwould have to say that this would be a good idea if someone would run it and not try to do what the banks today do and rip the customers off and loan out 10 times what they have in the bank.  I doubt that will happen, so BAD IDEA!
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December 16, 2016, 02:42:57 AM
 #694

A banker is enrolled in a signature campaign... Go on mate, I'm all ears!
and why not? why should i do for free something that can be paid? i'll post around here with or without the signature, so again, why not?
and you didn't even tried to argue against what i said... what a joke.

ps:  i said i'm banker, not a millionaire or something like.
ps2: you're in a signature campaign too.

You work into a bank doesnt make you being more special then others, even with several beneficts you might have, why dont buy them directly, anyway the profession here isnt the question. Banks can provide an interest, but we dont need them at bitcoin since there are exchanges and casinos that already does provides interest for our bitcoins.
I guess you are right, who needs bank when we are earning even more than the interest banks can offer, not only exchange sites or casinos but holding alone can already make us rich if we do it in long term.

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December 16, 2016, 02:50:55 AM
 #695

A banker is enrolled in a signature campaign... Go on mate, I'm all ears!
and why not? why should i do for free something that can be paid? i'll post around here with or without the signature, so again, why not?
and you didn't even tried to argue against what i said... what a joke.

ps:  i said i'm banker, not a millionaire or something like.
ps2: you're in a signature campaign too.

You work into a bank doesnt make you being more special then others, even with several beneficts you might have, why dont buy them directly, anyway the profession here isnt the question. Banks can provide an interest, but we dont need them at bitcoin since there are exchanges and casinos that already does provides interest for our bitcoins.
I guess you are right, who needs bank when we are earning even more than the interest banks can offer, not only exchange sites or casinos but holding alone can already make us rich if we do it in long term.
Banks and bitcoin should exist, we have the option to do transaction, if we want to save then we can put our money to the Bank without worrying as it's secured and if we want to invest, we can always do it with Bitcoin. At least we have Bank where we can save our earnings that is protected by insurance.

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December 16, 2016, 07:27:15 AM
 #696

A banker is enrolled in a signature campaign... Go on mate, I'm all ears!
and why not? why should i do for free something that can be paid? i'll post around here with or without the signature, so again, why not?
and you didn't even tried to argue against what i said... what a joke

Maybe, you are working in an Islamic bank, and there things are as you say, but all Western banking systems (including that of Russia) are built similarly and work exactly as I have been saying. If you are not, that pretty much proves that don't know a thing about banks and how they function, and I'm curious what office you hold (provided you are not lying in the first place). In respect to my words and how true they are, here is what Sir Mervyn King, a former Governor of the Bank of England in 2003-2013 says himself:

Quote
When banks extend loans to their customers, they create money by crediting their customers’ accounts

If anyone is interested how banks create money in the modern economy, and why they don't need deposits of their clients altogether, you may want to read this paper. Just a quote from it (emphasis added):

Quote
In the modern economy, most money takes the form of bank deposits. But how those bank deposits are created is often misunderstood: the principal way is through commercial banks making loans. Whenever a bank makes a loan, it simultaneously creates a matching deposit in the borrower’s bank account, thereby creating new money

Note that I said absolutely the same in my post quoted by the alleged banker above, but in fewer words

ps:  i said i'm banker, not a millionaire or something like.

Could you please tell us what you are doing in the bank?

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December 16, 2016, 04:06:10 PM
 #697

Recently, i often see discussion about Bitcoin Bank. More and more people come here and ask about bitcoin bank & surprisingly i see few user agree with this idea.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.

Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
yes i agree to you this is stupid idea  Grin
just wonder bitcoin bank for what ?


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Mastsetad
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December 16, 2016, 04:15:44 PM
 #698

Maybe the bitcoins can be invested in various businesses? It would be nice if there's a way for people to pool their bits and invest it in a business and then receive dividends later, though I guess that would be hard to implement considering how anonymous bitcoin is.

A bitcoin bank would probably not be an idea like that, they will simply just keep the bitcoins with them and you will have their permission everytime for withdrawing or transferring your bitcoins just like how we do with fiat banking systems i guess.
merchantofzeny
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December 18, 2016, 10:50:36 AM
 #699

Maybe the bitcoins can be invested in various businesses? It would be nice if there's a way for people to pool their bits and invest it in a business and then receive dividends later, though I guess that would be hard to implement considering how anonymous bitcoin is.
People already make this with ico, funding several coins and then waiting those coins being traded, eth were one of them, and had made amazing results, i guess it jumped from 20k into 1 milion satoshis soo if you had waiting and holded your eth you would had made 50x your investment. As eth there are others altcoins coming and making sucess, shitty coins arent getting the support as last year, where anyone could create a coin and steall something like 5-20 btc from people. Bank of bitcoin wont happen, makes no sense to let a third person to come into bitcoin, fiat system has those already and its a waste of money nothing else.

I guess I'd need to read more about these, might make me money if I have some to invest. I've heard of ETH, I believe it's currently quite affordable to buy now. Around $7 dollars when I googled it earlier.
Senor.Bla
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December 18, 2016, 11:07:44 AM
 #700

Maybe the bitcoins can be invested in various businesses? It would be nice if there's a way for people to pool their bits and invest it in a business and then receive dividends later, though I guess that would be hard to implement considering how anonymous bitcoin is.
People already make this with ico, funding several coins and then waiting those coins being traded, eth were one of them, and had made amazing results, i guess it jumped from 20k into 1 milion satoshis soo if you had waiting and holded your eth you would had made 50x your investment. As eth there are others altcoins coming and making sucess, shitty coins arent getting the support as last year, where anyone could create a coin and steall something like 5-20 btc from people. Bank of bitcoin wont happen, makes no sense to let a third person to come into bitcoin, fiat system has those already and its a waste of money nothing else.

I guess I'd need to read more about these, might make me money if I have some to invest. I've heard of ETH, I believe it's currently quite affordable to buy now. Around $7 dollars when I googled it earlier.
I am not a fan of the Bitcoin bank idea, but if it would happen i do not see why the Bitcoin bank should deal with altcoins and especially with those ICOs, since many of them are scams or just a way for some to make a quick buck. ETH is a bit different, but there is a lot to know and you should definitely read a lot before deciding if you want to invest in it. 

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