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Question: Do you agree with idea "Bitcoin bank" ?
Yes
No
I don't know/I'm not sure yet
I don't care

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Author Topic: Do you agree with idea "Bitcoin bank" ?  (Read 139587 times)
deisik
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January 08, 2017, 01:18:51 PM
 #941

Yeah mister Cat-Pilot! But can we really separate banking system from its legal regulation? Both seems completely symbiotic don't they?
Bitcoin network is much less regulated than the banking system we know because banking system in our world needs governmental approbation to even exist.

But as you seem to have thought a lot about the question I have a question for you: what would be the point of a bitcoin bank?
I mean, a fiat bank has a very simple purpose, making money, and a simple utility for most of its users: providing a stock and exchange system. Banks were created for that, you use a bank not for the interest rates but because you NEED an account in order to send and receive money, because no company will give you your wage in cash, no government will make it easy for you to pay your taxes with cash, and even if all that was possible you would still want to stock your money in a "safe deposit". Of course interest rates are a plus, but you would use banks even if they had 0% interest rates!

But bitcoin already allow all of that. So what would be the main goal of banks?

I have already answered that question

You seem to misunderstand what a Bitcoin bank would mean in practice. Most likely, it won't be a separate entity like web wallets are now but rather a service offered by regular banks (once they are allowed to make business with Bitcoin). Obviously, such a service could potentially include everything that web wallets are offering nowadays, and in addition to that, banks would offer services which they basically earn money with and which make them different from other financial institutions, for example, by loaning bitcoins at interest protected with real collateral

Well... Not so sure about why I would put my money in a bank for that...
They would be used for specific investments maybe, but who would put his money inside just to let it there? That would be stupid. No real benefit and you hand out your money to a private corporation which can do whatever it wants...

Personally, you may not want to put your money there

But you can't possibly discard almost 5 million users of Coinbase alone. And it is far from being the only pebble on the beach. There are quite a few other web wallets out there (e.g. Xapo, BitGo, etc). What makes all their clients hold bitcoins there? It is security, ease of use, and free of charge transactions, obviously. Now add to this an interest paid on coins held in a Bitcoin bank account. Would you mind getting interest paid on your idle coins (given how many folks are just hoarding bitcoins)?

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January 08, 2017, 02:19:16 PM
 #942

Yeah mister Cat-Pilot! But can we really separate banking system from its legal regulation? Both seems completely symbiotic don't they?
Bitcoin network is much less regulated than the banking system we know because banking system in our world needs governmental approbation to even exist.

But as you seem to have thought a lot about the question I have a question for you: what would be the point of a bitcoin bank?
I mean, a fiat bank has a very simple purpose, making money, and a simple utility for most of its users: providing a stock and exchange system. Banks were created for that, you use a bank not for the interest rates but because you NEED an account in order to send and receive money, because no company will give you your wage in cash, no government will make it easy for you to pay your taxes with cash, and even if all that was possible you would still want to stock your money in a "safe deposit". Of course interest rates are a plus, but you would use banks even if they had 0% interest rates!

But bitcoin already allow all of that. So what would be the main goal of banks?

I have already answered that question

You seem to misunderstand what a Bitcoin bank would mean in practice. Most likely, it won't be a separate entity like web wallets are now but rather a service offered by regular banks (once they are allowed to make business with Bitcoin). Obviously, such a service could potentially include everything that web wallets are offering nowadays, and in addition to that, banks would offer services which they basically earn money with and which make them different from other financial institutions, for example, by loaning bitcoins at interest protected with real collateral

Well... Not so sure about why I would put my money in a bank for that...
They would be used for specific investments maybe, but who would put his money inside just to let it there? That would be stupid. No real benefit and you hand out your money to a private corporation which can do whatever it wants...

Personally, you may not want to put your money there

But you can't possibly discard almost 5 million users of Coinbase alone. And it is far from being the only pebble on the beach. There are quite a few other web wallets out there (e.g. Xapo, BitGo, etc). What makes all their clients hold bitcoins there? It is security, ease of use, and free of charge transactions, obviously. Now add to this an interest paid on coins held in a Bitcoin bank account. Would you mind getting interest paid on your idle coins (given how many folks are just hoarding bitcoins)?

I've got to admit I don't understand people putting their btc in web wallets...
But it seems I'm not representing the majority.
I wouldn't accept putting my btc in a bitcoin bank even for interests, unless they're really huge ones. But the current interest rates in normal banks wouldn't make me putting my coins in a bank for example, it would need to be much higher.


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January 08, 2017, 02:26:30 PM
 #943

I think that we don't need to discard this idea at start. Of course that Bitcoin users have negative opinion when banks are mentioned because they probably think on traditional banking system that Bitcoin is total oposite to. I feel that too. But for Bitcoin bank we can use the best banking features and discard all the worst. I'm not saying that I'm 100% for Bitcoin bank but I'd like to say that this idea maybe could be more developed and adjusted to the Bitcoin.

" for Bitcoin bank we can use the best banking features and discard all the worst".... Why do you think current banks discard the worse and use the best features? ...it's because this is how banks earn, a perfect bank for consumers will be a bank in loss.
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January 08, 2017, 07:16:42 PM
 #944

I think that we don't need to discard this idea at start. Of course that Bitcoin users have negative opinion when banks are mentioned because they probably think on traditional banking system that Bitcoin is total oposite to. I feel that too. But for Bitcoin bank we can use the best banking features and discard all the worst. I'm not saying that I'm 100% for Bitcoin bank but I'd like to say that this idea maybe could be more developed and adjusted to the Bitcoin.

" for Bitcoin bank we can use the best banking features and discard all the worst".... Why do you think current banks discard the worse and use the best features? ...it's because this is how banks earn, a perfect bank for consumers will be a bank in loss.
but to me i think still there is no need of bitcoin banks, because still the bitcoin users can use online wallet for saving bitcoin, i think using online wallet is the most easy way of using it as you do not need to visit a bank and use card or checkbook for withdrawal of your bitcoins.

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January 08, 2017, 09:10:33 PM
 #945

This is a non sense idea, bitcoin its decentralized, doing such we will centralize our coins into one single person, that could easy manipulate the trading market and possible kill it, soo without any income from trading people would try to find other ways to get an income with bitcoin. This is something i do hope wont happen, this will destroy the freedom that bitcoin does allow to all, if you searching for interest of your coins try poloniex lending, or lend here with a colateral always rule.
But in future all banks are going to accept bitcoin in their banks because they will admit the importance of bitcoin and for example they will create their own online wallet services for bitcoin and will allow people to deposit their money in these wallets. I guess every web wallet providers also already doing works similar to banks.
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January 08, 2017, 09:14:32 PM
 #946

What is Bitcoin Bank? The OP doesn't mention. Is this supposed to be a Federal or Central bank for bitcoin?

If so, I'm against yet...yet we already sort of have this system established. There's a group of 30 or so core Bitcoin "developers" who meet yearly to discuss the bitcoin project and ways to control or influence or direct it.

The only thing this group of people doesn't control is the money supply, which is a small but very significant difference between their control and the control of a Central bank.

To the OP, it would be nice of you offered some background information on the topic so people can learn. Cheers!

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January 08, 2017, 10:07:26 PM
 #947

This is a non sense idea, bitcoin its decentralized, doing such we will centralize our coins into one single person, that could easy manipulate the trading market and possible kill it, soo without any income from trading people would try to find other ways to get an income with bitcoin. This is something i do hope wont happen, this will destroy the freedom that bitcoin does allow to all, if you searching for interest of your coins try poloniex lending, or lend here with a colateral always rule.
But in future all banks are going to accept bitcoin in their banks because they will admit the importance of bitcoin and for example they will create their own online wallet services for bitcoin and will allow people to deposit their money in these wallets. I guess every web wallet providers also already doing works similar to banks.
if bank adopt the bitcoin it will be more good news for bitcoin then i hope bitcoin will be more popular and more stronger and then we can be use our bitcoin for direct shopping and then no one would be convert their bitcoin to fiat.

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January 08, 2017, 10:58:57 PM
 #948

I think that we don't need to discard this idea at start. Of course that Bitcoin users have negative opinion when banks are mentioned because they probably think on traditional banking system that Bitcoin is total oposite to. I feel that too. But for Bitcoin bank we can use the best banking features and discard all the worst. I'm not saying that I'm 100% for Bitcoin bank but I'd like to say that this idea maybe could be more developed and adjusted to the Bitcoin.

" for Bitcoin bank we can use the best banking features and discard all the worst".... Why do you think current banks discard the worse and use the best features? ...it's because this is how banks earn, a perfect bank for consumers will be a bank in loss.
but to me i think still there is no need of bitcoin banks, because still the bitcoin users can use online wallet for saving bitcoin, i think using online wallet is the most easy way of using it as you do not need to visit a bank and use card or checkbook for withdrawal of your bitcoins.
true, but some of the differences you can grow your bitcoin when you save bitcoin in the bank. but the risk is certainly your bitcoin is in the hands of third parties and your identity also

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January 09, 2017, 01:22:51 AM
 #949

This is a non sense idea, bitcoin its decentralized, doing such we will centralize our coins into one single person, that could easy manipulate the trading market and possible kill it, soo without any income from trading people would try to find other ways to get an income with bitcoin. This is something i do hope wont happen, this will destroy the freedom that bitcoin does allow to all, if you searching for interest of your coins try poloniex lending, or lend here with a colateral always rule.
But in future all banks are going to accept bitcoin in their banks because they will admit the importance of bitcoin and for example they will create their own online wallet services for bitcoin and will allow people to deposit their money in these wallets. I guess every web wallet providers also already doing works similar to banks.
if bank adopt the bitcoin it will be more good news for bitcoin then i hope bitcoin will be more popular and more stronger and then we can be use our bitcoin for direct shopping and then no one would be convert their bitcoin to fiat.
i think in future when bitcoin will become more popular and the users of bitcoin increase some more then they will certain take action i favour of bitcoin and they will even create online wallet for it.
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January 09, 2017, 03:40:51 AM
 #950

This is a non sense idea, bitcoin its decentralized, doing such we will centralize our coins into one single person, that could easy manipulate the trading market and possible kill it, soo without any income from trading people would try to find other ways to get an income with bitcoin. This is something i do hope wont happen, this will destroy the freedom that bitcoin does allow to all, if you searching for interest of your coins try poloniex lending, or lend here with a colateral always rule.
But in future all banks are going to accept bitcoin in their banks because they will admit the importance of bitcoin and for example they will create their own online wallet services for bitcoin and will allow people to deposit their money in these wallets. I guess every web wallet providers also already doing works similar to banks.
if bank adopt the bitcoin it will be more good news for bitcoin then i hope bitcoin will be more popular and more stronger and then we can be use our bitcoin for direct shopping and then no one would be convert their bitcoin to fiat.
i think in future when bitcoin will become more popular and the users of bitcoin increase some more then they will certain take action i favour of bitcoin and they will even create online wallet for it.
That's already most of our prediction because once bitcoin will get more popular, it will spread awareness to people and if they understand then eventually they will adopt with it. When they adopt, that is when the price will increase more because of the demand.However, it's not right to predict that the bank will also adopt with bitcoin, it's unrealistic at all.

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January 09, 2017, 05:46:58 AM
 #951

I keep seeing people say things like "I don't understand why you would put your bitcoin in a bank". I think you are misunderstanding what a bank can do for people.

Most people HAVE NO BITCOIN.  Most people do have collateral. A bank is able to judge the credit worthiness of people with collateral and loan them bitcoin. It would be a way to buy a house and have a mortgage denominated in bitcoin.

The value of banks is this ability to judge credit worthiness and give people who have no bitcoin access to bitcoin. The banks are willing to assume the risk. They are willing to pay interest to people who trust them and deposit bitcoin in banks.

Now banks are risky, but that is balanced by enormous value. Consider the biggest risk with banks based on fiat. It is that the central bank will print enough hard currency to debase your money. This can't happen with bitcoin.  Each bitcoin bank has to manage its own risks without the expectation of a bailout from the central bank. I bet bitcoin banks will be much more conservative and trustworthy than fiat banks.

I would think the bitcoin community would welcome banks. They would enormously increase the worldwide use of bitcoin and bitcoin value would rise accordingly.
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January 09, 2017, 11:18:53 AM
 #952

I keep seeing people say things like "I don't understand why you would put your bitcoin in a bank". I think you are misunderstanding what a bank can do for people.

Most people HAVE NO BITCOIN.  Most people do have collateral. A bank is able to judge the credit worthiness of people with collateral and loan them bitcoin. It would be a way to buy a house and have a mortgage denominated in bitcoin.

The value of banks is this ability to judge credit worthiness and give people who have no bitcoin access to bitcoin. The banks are willing to assume the risk. They are willing to pay interest to people who trust them and deposit bitcoin in banks

Obviously, you failed to account for something

Something which will render the whole idea of lending bitcoins unrealistic as of now. And it is not Bitcoin depreciation like what you mean with fiat that will make this idea fail. It is the exact opposite of that. I mean possible Bitcoin appreciation. i.e. its price rising. Let's assume a bank offers Bitcoin deposits at 1% and loans bitcoins at 5% interest rates annually. Now it takes collateral at, say, 120% dollar worth of the current Bitcoin price. Someone takes a loan from the bank and provides real collateral (let it be his house). Then Bitcoin price surges a few times within a year, and the borrower happily defaults on his loan buying a better house instead of his collateralized one and still having some bitcoins left in his pockets. But the bank can sell the house only for a part of the bitcoins it loaned out while it still has to pay interest on Bitcoin deposits it attracted, right? And from where will it get the bitcoins outstanding?

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January 09, 2017, 03:38:27 PM
 #953

I dont see the real need of such bitcoin bank at all, whats the purpose let the coins safe? Trust into a third companie to store your bitcoins? To get extra interest montly or year? Anyway i do know we do use web wallets, and wallets made for a third company, but they havent control over the coins, something a bank would get, i like the freedom that i do have now and there is no way to such thing happen and make me change my mind.


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January 09, 2017, 05:16:14 PM
 #954

I dont see the real need of such bitcoin bank at all, whats the purpose let the coins safe? Trust into a third companie to store your bitcoins? To get extra interest montly or year? Anyway i do know we do use web wallets, and wallets made for a third company, but they havent control over the coins, something a bank would get, i like the freedom that i do have now and there is no way to such thing happen and make me change my mind.

And also, we are not forced to use web wallets or any of these services, we have other options for storing our bitcoins without involving any third party, so why would we need a bank for storing our coins while we can keep them safe with us? It is obviously not needed at all.
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January 09, 2017, 09:07:34 PM
 #955

I keep seeing people say things like "I don't understand why you would put your bitcoin in a bank". I think you are misunderstanding what a bank can do for people.

Most people HAVE NO BITCOIN.  Most people do have collateral. A bank is able to judge the credit worthiness of people with collateral and loan them bitcoin. It would be a way to buy a house and have a mortgage denominated in bitcoin.

The value of banks is this ability to judge credit worthiness and give people who have no bitcoin access to bitcoin. The banks are willing to assume the risk. They are willing to pay interest to people who trust them and deposit bitcoin in banks

Obviously, you failed to account for something

Something which will render the whole idea of lending bitcoins unrealistic as of now. And it is not Bitcoin depreciation like what you mean with fiat that will make this idea fail. It is the exact opposite of that. I mean possible Bitcoin appreciation. i.e. its price rising. Let's assume a bank offers Bitcoin deposits at 1% and loans bitcoins at 5% interest rates annually. Now it takes collateral at, say, 120% dollar worth of the current Bitcoin price. Someone takes a loan from the bank and provides real collateral (let it be his house). Then Bitcoin price surges a few times within a year, and the borrower happily defaults on his loan buying a better house instead of his collateralized one and still having some bitcoins left in his pockets. But the bank can sell the house only for a part of the bitcoins it loaned out while it still has to pay interest on Bitcoin deposits it attracted, right? And from where will it get the bitcoins outstanding?

Actually, I completely agree with you. I can't see anyone borrowing in bitcoins any time soon, so the whole point of bitcoin banks is moot.

Still, I think the common sentiment should be 'we wish there were bitcoin banks that make loans to any trustworthy person who needs bitcoin' and of course carry the risk.

By the way, the technical side in a volatile market from the bank's point of view is clear. In case of default, the bank would repossess the collateral and sell it for bitcoin, of course. And just like the current system with home values that go up or down, banks would require the owner to hold plenty of equity in his collateral.

Banks could make a business of this. But, as you said, no one in his right mind would take on a bitcoin loan if his salary is in fiat and bitcoin is on a rising curve.

No banks here.  Nothing to see.  Move along please.
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January 09, 2017, 09:56:43 PM
 #956

I dont see the real need of such bitcoin bank at all, whats the purpose let the coins safe? Trust into a third companie to store your bitcoins? To get extra interest montly or year? Anyway i do know we do use web wallets, and wallets made for a third company, but they havent control over the coins, something a bank would get, i like the freedom that i do have now and there is no way to such thing happen and make me change my mind.
I agree with your point that online wallets are working like banks for bitcoin and with them we often feel insecurity and prefer desktop wallets and consider the desktop wallets as more secure so not any more banks like them we need we are happy to have our coins with us.

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January 09, 2017, 10:10:55 PM
 #957

The bitcoin bank is maybe a good idea but for some it will also not be so good due to the fact that they want to stay anonymous and with this it will be more difficult than ever.. its also too central.
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January 09, 2017, 10:22:01 PM
 #958

I dont see the real need of such bitcoin bank at all, whats the purpose let the coins safe? Trust into a third companie to store your bitcoins? To get extra interest montly or year? Anyway i do know we do use web wallets, and wallets made for a third company, but they havent control over the coins, something a bank would get, i like the freedom that i do have now and there is no way to such thing happen and make me change my mind.
I agree with your point that online wallets are working like banks for bitcoin and with them we often feel insecurity and prefer desktop wallets and consider the desktop wallets as more secure so not any more banks like them we need we are happy to have our coins with us.

Desktop clients are indeed the better option as you have full control over every aspect of your coins, but that's assuming you run on a clean cumputer with the required security measures. It's not that when you make use of a desktop client that you automatically enjoy a high level of security. It's as safe as you want it to be. That's why it's important to secure all your wallet files with lengthy passphrases. On top of that you can add an extra layer of protection by encrypting your wallet files.

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January 09, 2017, 10:47:58 PM
 #959

The bitcoin bank is maybe a good idea but for some it will also not be so good due to the fact that they want to stay anonymous and with this it will be more difficult than ever.. its also too central.
bitcoin bank only for those people who do not really care anonymous and decentralized, so any free user wants to use bitcoin bank or not. because his life, every user is free to use bitcoin for anything

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January 09, 2017, 11:13:47 PM
 #960

I think that we don't need to discard this idea at start. Of course that Bitcoin users have negative opinion when banks are mentioned because they probably think on traditional banking system that Bitcoin is total oposite to. I feel that too. But for Bitcoin bank we can use the best banking features and discard all the worst. I'm not saying that I'm 100% for Bitcoin bank but I'd like to say that this idea maybe could be more developed and adjusted to the Bitcoin.

" for Bitcoin bank we can use the best banking features and discard all the worst".... Why do you think current banks discard the worse and use the best features? ...it's because this is how banks earn, a perfect bank for consumers will be a bank in loss.
I think a perfect bank for the consumers will be a bank of profit for everyone even for themselves. If a bank start up for bitoin then it will ensure the security and guarantee for the bitcoins of people and with that the bank will also earn a good income.

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