Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Fakhoury]

Gemini is a neccessary requirement for the ETF as it will be the connection to the market.

How is that ?

The ETF has to buy every BTC that is bought at Wallstreet in the "real" BTC markets. Every share of the ETF has to be underlaid by BTCs. In their proposal at the SEC they explained that those BTC will be bought at the usual BTC markets. Given Gemini is their own exchange its obv that they will likely use Gemini to fill orders from Wallstreet.

So you see? Gemini is an important requirement for the ETF.

Perfect, thank you.

Now, what about the volume from the Wallstreet, will we have a big volume from Wallstreet jumping into bitcoin using the COIN ETF ?

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[Fakhoury]

And ?

Pardon me, but it this a 4 digits for example that we will witness or we will see $4K soon for example, the new ATH for example ?

[JorgeStolfi]

Gemini will be a "fully regulated, fully compliant" exchange with major fiat backing (Winklevoss twins) They also have a major stake in Bitcoin with a reported 1-2 percent of there assets in BTC.

What will they offer that itBit doesn't?

[Karpeles]

Are we going to break 300 this time, or will we go down again from 290?

[poncho32]

The winklevii already have investors ready to buy as soon as they go live.  They know alot of high power people.

I don't doubt they know powerful people but powerful people are "usually" powerful as they are fairly intelligent.

Now, I am mildly semi intelligent and I know if I were them I'd buy before Gemini is launched and the price potentially rises.

Why wait for the winkles?

I am not sold on this Gemini exchange doing much at all to the price. Not moon bound anyway but............

I really hope I am wrong and everyone points and laughs at me.

There is nothing new anymore about a regulated exchange. And with the swedish ETN the Twinkletossers ETF has lost much of it's novelty. But they somehow get all the media and all the fat cats to listen to them. Often just to point and laugh, but listen they do.

Don't get me wrong. I still think a fully regulated ETF listed in NY is a big deal, just not as big as it was. And with the other exchanges, the ETN and general acceptance of BTC in financial circles, we don't need the Facepalm Bros to launch this mofo.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong here saying that the Swedish ETN ruins the COIN ETFs novelty. ETNs do not = ETFs, not even close

ETNs are not nearly as secure and transparent ETFs. ETFs actually hold the underlying asset being tracked and ETNs simply follow the price. This gives people much more confidence in using ETFs to earn returns versus ETNs. If the company that runs the ETN goes out of business the ETN would become worthless (ETN = unsecured debt), but with an ETF there are actual assets backing the investors purchases so they have much more security.  

Exactly, if the price goes lunatic and makes new ATH the company issuing the ETN could go bankrupt as they eventually have to pay those gains out of their own pockets.

Which is why you should never invest in an ETN unless you know the company has a good credit rating and that the chances of bankruptcy are almost non-existent.

What if the Wink's Bitcoins get stolen? Does insurance cover the loss, and is there no way an insurance company could possibly wriggle off the hook of paying? I know it's not likely but nothing's impossible, no matter how good the Wink's security is there is always a risk of theft.

[ImI]

Gemini is a neccessary requirement for the ETF as it will be the connection to the market.

How is that ?

The ETF has to buy every BTC that is bought at Wallstreet in the "real" BTC markets. Every share of the ETF has to be underlaid by BTCs. In their proposal at the SEC they explained that those BTC will be bought at the usual BTC markets. Given Gemini is their own exchange its obv that they will likely use Gemini to fill orders from Wallstreet.

So you see? Gemini is an important requirement for the ETF.

Perfect, thank you.

Now, what about the volume from the Wallstreet, will we have a big volume from Wallstreet jumping into bitcoin using the COIN ETF ?

Thats the big question. Some expect tiny volume some expect hundreds of Millions if not Billions flowing into the ETF.

[ImI]

The winklevii already have investors ready to buy as soon as they go live.  They know alot of high power people.

I don't doubt they know powerful people but powerful people are "usually" powerful as they are fairly intelligent.

Now, I am mildly semi intelligent and I know if I were them I'd buy before Gemini is launched and the price potentially rises.

Why wait for the winkles?

I am not sold on this Gemini exchange doing much at all to the price. Not moon bound anyway but............

I really hope I am wrong and everyone points and laughs at me.

There is nothing new anymore about a regulated exchange. And with the swedish ETN the Twinkletossers ETF has lost much of it's novelty. But they somehow get all the media and all the fat cats to listen to them. Often just to point and laugh, but listen they do.

Don't get me wrong. I still think a fully regulated ETF listed in NY is a big deal, just not as big as it was. And with the other exchanges, the ETN and general acceptance of BTC in financial circles, we don't need the Facepalm Bros to launch this mofo.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong here saying that the Swedish ETN ruins the COIN ETFs novelty. ETNs do not = ETFs, not even close

ETNs are not nearly as secure and transparent ETFs. ETFs actually hold the underlying asset being tracked and ETNs simply follow the price. This gives people much more confidence in using ETFs to earn returns versus ETNs. If the company that runs the ETN goes out of business the ETN would become worthless (ETN = unsecured debt), but with an ETF there are actual assets backing the investors purchases so they have much more security.  

Exactly, if the price goes lunatic and makes new ATH the company issuing the ETN could go bankrupt as they eventually have to pay those gains out of their own pockets.

Which is why you should never invest in an ETN unless you know the company has a good credit rating and that the chances of bankruptcy are almost non-existent.

What if the Wink's Bitcoins get stolen? Does insurance cover the loss, and is there no way an insurance company could possibly wriggle off the hook of paying? I know it's not likely but nothing's impossible, no matter how good the Wink's security is there is always a risk of theft.

Good question. I am sure the SEC asked that question also. Its basically the same as the Gold ETF. Gold could get stolen also so there should be an insurance also, right?

[Fakhoury]

Gemini is a neccessary requirement for the ETF as it will be the connection to the market.

How is that ?

The ETF has to buy every BTC that is bought at Wallstreet in the "real" BTC markets. Every share of the ETF has to be underlaid by BTCs. In their proposal at the SEC they explained that those BTC will be bought at the usual BTC markets. Given Gemini is their own exchange its obv that they will likely use Gemini to fill orders from Wallstreet.

So you see? Gemini is an important requirement for the ETF.

Perfect, thank you.

Now, what about the volume from the Wallstreet, will we have a big volume from Wallstreet jumping into bitcoin using the COIN ETF ?

Thats the big question. Some expect tiny volume some expect hundreds of Millions if not Billions flowing into the ETF.

You as ImI, what do you think and what are the logical reasons that backs your reasons ?

[Cconvert2G36]

What if the Wink's Bitcoins get stolen? Does insurance cover the loss, and is there no way an insurance company could possibly wriggle off the hook of paying? I know it's not likely but nothing's impossible, no matter how good the Wink's security is there is always a risk of theft.

Good question. I am sure the SEC asked that question also. Its basically the same as the Gold ETF. Gold could get stolen also so there should be an insurance also, right?

It's all detailed quite explicitly in the ETF application. The risk exists that the ETF goes to zero and is delisted in the event of compromised holdings.

Unless I'm mistaken, the cost of insuring the entire reserve would be too expensive to be workable.

“Although the Trust’s transfers of bitcoins will regularly be made to or from the Authorized Participant Custody Accounts, and to the Sponsor Custody Account and the Trust Expense Account (each of which are custodied and administered by the Custodian), it is possible that, through computer or human error, or through theft or criminal action, the Trust’s bitcoins could be transferred from the Trust Custody Account in incorrect amounts or to unauthorized third parties. To the extent that the Trust is unable to seek a corrective transaction with such third party or is incapable of identifying the third party which has received the Trust’s bitcoins through error or theft, the Trust will be unable to revert or otherwise recover incorrectly transferred Trust bitcoins. To the extent that the Trust is unable to seek redress for such error or theft, such loss could adversely affect an investment in the Shares.”

[natewelt]

The winklevii already have investors ready to buy as soon as they go live.  They know alot of high power people.

I don't doubt they know powerful people but powerful people are "usually" powerful as they are fairly intelligent.

Now, I am mildly semi intelligent and I know if I were them I'd buy before Gemini is launched and the price potentially rises.

Why wait for the winkles?

I am not sold on this Gemini exchange doing much at all to the price. Not moon bound anyway but............

I really hope I am wrong and everyone points and laughs at me.

There is nothing new anymore about a regulated exchange. And with the swedish ETN the Twinkletossers ETF has lost much of it's novelty. But they somehow get all the media and all the fat cats to listen to them. Often just to point and laugh, but listen they do.

Don't get me wrong. I still think a fully regulated ETF listed in NY is a big deal, just not as big as it was. And with the other exchanges, the ETN and general acceptance of BTC in financial circles, we don't need the Facepalm Bros to launch this mofo.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong here saying that the Swedish ETN ruins the COIN ETFs novelty. ETNs do not = ETFs, not even close

ETNs are not nearly as secure and transparent ETFs. ETFs actually hold the underlying asset being tracked and ETNs simply follow the price. This gives people much more confidence in using ETFs to earn returns versus ETNs. If the company that runs the ETN goes out of business the ETN would become worthless (ETN = unsecured debt), but with an ETF there are actual assets backing the investors purchases so they have much more security.  

Exactly, if the price goes lunatic and makes new ATH the company issuing the ETN could go bankrupt as they eventually have to pay those gains out of their own pockets.

Which is why you should never invest in an ETN unless you know the company has a good credit rating and that the chances of bankruptcy are almost non-existent.

What if the Wink's Bitcoins get stolen? Does insurance cover the loss, and is there no way an insurance company could possibly wriggle off the hook of paying? I know it's not likely but nothing's impossible, no matter how good the Wink's security is there is always a risk of theft.

If the coins backing COIN were all stolen then investors would probably loose a lot of money (if not all), but the same goes for any other ETF. GLD for example holds gold and there is a chance it will all be stolen yet there is about $25B invested in the GLD ETF right now and a lot more than that when gold was higher.

In terms of insurance, we will have to read through the COIN's prospectus if and when it comes online to see if says anything.

With that said, COIN won't have all of its BTC holdings online. I'm sure they will have most in cold storage and probably not all in one place.

If COIN does have all of it's coins stolen it will be one of the biggest heists in history assuming COIN gets

[ImI]

Gemini is a neccessary requirement for the ETF as it will be the connection to the market.

How is that ?

The ETF has to buy every BTC that is bought at Wallstreet in the "real" BTC markets. Every share of the ETF has to be underlaid by BTCs. In their proposal at the SEC they explained that those BTC will be bought at the usual BTC markets. Given Gemini is their own exchange its obv that they will likely use Gemini to fill orders from Wallstreet.

So you see? Gemini is an important requirement for the ETF.

Perfect, thank you.

Now, what about the volume from the Wallstreet, will we have a big volume from Wallstreet jumping into bitcoin using the COIN ETF ?

Thats the big question. Some expect tiny volume some expect hundreds of Millions if not Billions flowing into the ETF.

You as ImI, what do you think and what are the logical reasons that backs your reasons ?

I think the halving and the ETF could build the "perfect storm". At the moment there is no safe and comfortable way to buy and sell Bitcoin via Wallstreet so it will definitely bring some extra cash. Given how tiny the BTC-marketcap is compared to the financial markets, BTC needs to "convince" only a very small fraction of Wallstreet to go vertical. Just 0.001% would be enough.

The halving will spur a lot of buzz and with the ETF as an easy way to participate in such a situation next spring could go crazy imo.

But lets wait and see how it unfolds.

[TerraMaster]

Gemini is a neccessary requirement for the ETF as it will be the connection to the market.

How is that ?

The ETF has to buy every BTC that is bought at Wallstreet in the "real" BTC markets. Every share of the ETF has to be underlaid by BTCs. In their proposal at the SEC they explained that those BTC will be bought at the usual BTC markets. Given Gemini is their own exchange its obv that they will likely use Gemini to fill orders from Wallstreet.

So you see? Gemini is an important requirement for the ETF.

Perfect, thank you.

Now, what about the volume from the Wallstreet, will we have a big volume from Wallstreet jumping into bitcoin using the COIN ETF ?

Thats the big question. Some expect tiny volume some expect hundreds of Millions if not Billions flowing into the ETF.

You as ImI, what do you think and what are the logical reasons that backs your reasons ?

I think the halving and the ETF could build the "perfect storm". At the moment there is no safe and comfortable way to buy and sell Bitcoin via Wallstreet so it will definitely bring some extra cash. Given how tiny the BTC-marketcap is compared to the financial markets, BTC needs to "convince" only a very small fraction of Wallstreet to go vertical. Just 0.001% would be enough.

The halving will spur a lot of buzz and with the ETF as an easy way to participate in such a situation next spring could go crazy imo.

But lets wait and see how it unfolds.

Keep writing! it all sounds good to me 

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[Fakhoury]

Gemini is a neccessary requirement for the ETF as it will be the connection to the market.

How is that ?

The ETF has to buy every BTC that is bought at Wallstreet in the "real" BTC markets. Every share of the ETF has to be underlaid by BTCs. In their proposal at the SEC they explained that those BTC will be bought at the usual BTC markets. Given Gemini is their own exchange its obv that they will likely use Gemini to fill orders from Wallstreet.

So you see? Gemini is an important requirement for the ETF.

Perfect, thank you.

Now, what about the volume from the Wallstreet, will we have a big volume from Wallstreet jumping into bitcoin using the COIN ETF ?

Thats the big question. Some expect tiny volume some expect hundreds of Millions if not Billions flowing into the ETF.

You as ImI, what do you think and what are the logical reasons that backs your reasons ?

I think the halving and the ETF could build the "perfect storm". At the moment there is no safe and comfortable way to buy and sell Bitcoin via Wallstreet so it will definitely bring some extra cash. Given how tiny the BTC-marketcap is compared to the financial markets, BTC needs to "convince" only a very small fraction of Wallstreet to go vertical. Just 0.001% would be enough.

The halving will spur a lot of buzz and with the ETF as an easy way to participate in such a situation next spring could go crazy imo.

But lets wait and see how it unfolds.

The halving will spur a lot of buzz

Why ?

BTC needs to "convince" only a very small fraction of Wallstreet to go vertical. Just 0.001% would be enough.

Why "Just 0.001% would be enough." ?

[edgar]

Well good morning Bitcoinland.

You know there are things like timezones right?

he seems not to - but posting the exact same phrase day after day has led me to thinking he may be a bot or one of those weird wannabe-borg types.

good morning bitcoinland

seems we're still at x.xx again. sideways is good...

bla bla bla todays price, bla bla bla yesterdays & future price again.

something something, other people suck.

my lifes perfect & coffee. yawn/yum


(check his endless boring posts, its more robotic than binary)

[Cconvert2G36]

Well good morning Bitcoinland.

You know there are things like timezones right?

he seems not to - but posting the exact same phrase day after day has led me to thinking he may be a bot or one of those weird wannabe-borg types.

good morning bitcoinland

seems we're still at x.xx again. sideways is good...

bla bla bla todays price, bla bla bla yesterdays & future price again.

something something, other people suck.

my lifes perfect & coffee. yawn/yum


(check his endless boring posts, its more robotic than binary)

[ImI]

The halving will spur a lot of buzz

Why ?

Markets love dates and events they can speculate onwards to. The halving is an perfect event to start a hype cause its a.) very easy to understand for everybody and it has b.) an obv bullish undertone as supply gets smaller. This will definitely get picked up by the mainstream media in spring 2016. CNBC and others love such stories.

Why "Just 0.001% would be enough." ?

Given the Billions that are moved at the financial markets every day BTC needs just a very tiny amount to get pushed in one way or another. The BTC markets are moved by single Millions at the moment.

[Fakhoury]

The halving will spur a lot of buzz

Why ?

Markets love dates and events they can speculate onwards to. The halving is an perfect event to start a hype cause its a.) very easy to understand for everybody and it has b.) an obv bullish undertone as supply gets smaller. This will definitely get picked up by the mainstream media in spring 2016. CNBC and others love such stories.

Why "Just 0.001% would be enough." ?

Given the Billions that are moved at the financial markets every day BTC needs just a very tiny amount to get pushed in one way or another. The BTC markets are moved by single Millions at the moment.

So overall you are Bullish if I'm not mistaken ?

[ImI]

The halving will spur a lot of buzz

Why ?

Markets love dates and events they can speculate onwards to. The halving is an perfect event to start a hype cause its a.) very easy to understand for everybody and it has b.) an obv bullish undertone as supply gets smaller. This will definitely get picked up by the mainstream media in spring 2016. CNBC and others love such stories.

Why "Just 0.001% would be enough." ?

Given the Billions that are moved at the financial markets every day BTC needs just a very tiny amount to get pushed in one way or another. The BTC markets are moved by single Millions at the moment.

So overall you are Bullish if I'm not mistaken ?

Yes. But there are obv problems also imo. Adoption isnt going forward as smooth and fast as expected. Bitcoin seems to be at this moment more a tool of speculation than a real life device.

[Cconvert2G36]

Yes. But there are obv problems also imo. Adoption isnt going forward as smooth and fast as expected. Bitcoin seems to be at this moment more a tool of speculation than a real life device.

I wonder what could be keeping potential investors and large scale users from seeing its global potential?

A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System*

*A limit of less than three transactions per second occurring on planet earth may apply.