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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26368812 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
Calabi–Yau Manifold
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August 24, 2015, 11:20:42 PM

starting to think there no need to increase block size limit because bitcoin will soon not be used at all

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I sold everything waiting to buy back sub 100, #besttraderever

Legendary Noob, bottom seller. Pathetic...
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The network tries to produce one block per 10 minutes. It does this by automatically adjusting how difficult it is to produce blocks.
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adamstgBit
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August 24, 2015, 11:21:42 PM

I sold everything waiting to buy back sub 100, #besttraderever

Legendary Noob, bottom seller. Pathetic...
lmao!
dreamspark
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August 24, 2015, 11:26:35 PM


Wasteland is right, confidence is one major "selling point" of Bitcoin. This kiddy nerd fights are for sure not helping in that regard. It seems like several billions have been handed to some teenagers.



The nature of any politics results in squabbling that appears like kid fights, that is NOT so unusual as  you are making it out to be...

Yes, surely, there is an ongoing lack of confidence that drives the price downward, and fearmongerers that also contribute to negative sentiments...

At the same time, we could go down either road and still be o.k.... our vehicle is still intact.... and mobile and capable of taking us in either direction, so long as we can agree to who is driving and whether we go 40mph or 80mph... and whether we pull the trailer or leave it at the campsite...

At the end of the day it's all a question of liquidity. There are many big holders who, while being btc rich, could never feasibly cash out their stash due to lack of liquidity. If just a few of them cash out a small percentage to lock in profit the market tanks. Add into that a negative sentiment and the price has nowhere to go but down.

Its funny though, if the price drops much more there is going to have been more VC money invested in the eco system than the market cap of the product they are venturing for.

I do think we'll go down BUT dreams of $50 btc wont happen and those prices wont remain for long. There are too many rich people out there who would throw a million in for 20k coins to see those levels for long.

It is true though that there comes a point where the price is so low people will lose interest and a lot of the momentum will be lost.
heartastack
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August 24, 2015, 11:27:44 PM


Wasteland is right, confidence is one major "selling point" of Bitcoin. This kiddy nerd fights are for sure not helping in that regard. It seems like several billions have been handed to some teenagers.



The nature of any politics results in squabbling that appears like kid fights, that is NOT so unusual as  you are making it out to be...

Yes, surely, there is an ongoing lack of confidence that drives the price downward, and fearmongerers that also contribute to negative sentiments...

At the same time, we could go down either road and still be o.k.... our vehicle is still intact.... and mobile and capable of taking us in either direction, so long as we can agree to who is driving and whether we go 40mph or 80mph... and whether we pull the trailer or leave it at the campsite...

I think back to primary school. We were trading marbles and pokemon cards for food, money and other toys. When the 'teachers' tried to drive the vehicle it was the instant touch of death.
I still don't see why all the meddling and complexity is needed. It's just a few individuals subjectively imposing their future onto everyone which may or may not be relevant. I would rather and wait to see what the trends of adoption are.

It's all good. Cypto will have it's time -probably soon as markets begin to crack as we speak. But I don't think these 'digital artists' creating tricked-out fandangled crypto magic are doing the right thing. They're just satisfying themselves. They should be experimenting with altcoins. Make sure the technology is on the sidelines if needed. Leave bitcoin alone. If you argue otherwise then as I said, who else could they be answering to. The consumer base is too small and the power is with centralised entities - exchanges, miners, merchants.
HerrAndreas
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August 24, 2015, 11:31:05 PM

Funny how these quarrels amongst coders get so many people so excited when we are actually just on our way down from willy/markus artificial highs towards the actual production cost of bitcoin (as any "regular" commodity would behave). As long the max amount of btc has not been mined (or that event is even poking from the far horizon), the amount of cash needed to mine a bitcoin is where the price is pulling.

Yes that is kitchen economics, but ffs that´s just how stuff works.  

Fear not forks, fear free energy.

dreamspark
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August 24, 2015, 11:35:02 PM

Funny how these quarrels amongst coders get so many people so excited when we are actually just on our way down from willy/markus artificial highs towards the actual production cost of bitcoin (as any "regular" commodity would behave). As long the max amount of btc has not been mined (or that event is even poking from the far horizon), the amount of cash needed to mine a bitcoin is where the price is pulling.

Yes that is kitchen economics, but ffs that´s just how stuff works.  

Fear not forks, fear free energy.



Wrong.

As long as there is speculation and demand the price can remain above production cost indefinitely.

You presume every mined coin is sold which is an asinine assumption.

The caveat of course is the price can also go below production if existing coins are added to the supply side.

The point being to use the cost of production as a metric for the true price is misinformed.
BTCOFFEE
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August 24, 2015, 11:41:36 PM

I sold everything waiting to buy back sub 100, #besttraderever

Legendary Noob, bottom seller. Pathetic...
lmao!


$200 inkoming ~ $175 test most likely imo * splitting the coin up from here will yield $100 post-split corns,,
-- not a bad place to pump from !!! :-) ready-set >>>weeeeeeee
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August 24, 2015, 11:44:37 PM


175$ could get tested. but with the looming nerd-fight until january 2016 there maybe not enough interest for a reaction.
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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August 24, 2015, 11:54:44 PM

Fear not forks, fear free energy.
For some of us it's not about fear, Bitcoin is how we get there.
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August 24, 2015, 11:55:12 PM

This is brutal
ChartBuddy
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August 25, 2015, 12:02:45 AM

Coin
Explanation

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August 25, 2015, 12:06:21 AM

But still Bitcoin is the best investment option than stock market.
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August 25, 2015, 12:10:19 AM

This is brutal

not really. btc just facing reality. being the first isn't sufficient anymore and the store of value
perception depends mostly on vc interests lately.
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August 25, 2015, 12:12:36 AM

starting to think there no need to increase block size limit because bitcoin will soon not be used at all

no comment


I sold everything waiting to buy back sub 100, #besttraderever

Legendary Noob, bottom seller. Pathetic...
The only pathetic persons seems to be the one that can't see adam's banter for what it is.
JorgeStolfi
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August 25, 2015, 12:14:11 AM

mass adoption will not improve bitcoin's store of value, it is quite the opposite actually, it will flood and drown it.  [ ... ] but it's its scarcity both in cap and transaction that will allow it to surpass any regular investment.

Scarcity alone will not make bitcoin valuable.  There is a finite and fixed supply of tickets for last month's issue of the Pennsylvania Lottery; but they are quite worthless.  Ditto for Zimbabwean dollar bills, Litecoins, Dogecoins, and any other altcoin.  

Back in ~Nov/2013, when I first became aware of bitcoin, the "gospel" was that bitcoin's value would derive from it capturing some fraction of the market (or the whole market) of PayPal, Visa, of the US dollar.  That is what Antonopoulos and all the bitcoin gurus used to say every time.  There was a slide by A. with such projections, ending with 1 BTC = 1 million USD or so -- all based on the money velocity equation (P = V x T / N, where P is the price USD/BTC, V is the volume of payments in USD/day, T is the mean number of days between reuses of the same coin, and N is the number of coins in circulation, namely 21 M BTC).

In particular, bitcoin was supposed to be much more vaulable that altcoins because of the "network effect" and the "first player's advantage", which would ensure that bitcoin, and not the altcoins, would be used for e-commerce.

Quote
it is its robustness against human miscalculations, its decentralization, its permission-less-ness and its network's security that matters.

None of these things will determine the price of bitcoin.  Old PA Lottery tickets are permissionless and decentralized (you can transact them anywhere without intermediaries), not affected by human miscalculations (they are just printed pieces of paper), and quite secure (it is practically impossible to forge them so as to fool modern microanalysis equipment).  But they are worthless, all the same.

Quote
that is so wrong on so many levels and in total opposition with bitcoin's fundamentals.

Bitcoin was created because there was no system for peer-to-peer electronic payments that did not require a trusted intermediary or central authority; and Satoshi thought that he had figured out a way to build one.  That is the "fundamentals" of bitcoin.  

The world did not (and does not) need another speculative investment instrument, or another system for buying computers from Dell, or a police-proof system to pay for cocaine, guns, and fake passports.   Destroying banks, governments, and government-issued currencies are stupid goals, because no one knows how to make a functioning society without them.  Bitcoin was not created for such purposes, and none of those purposes justifies its exstence.

Quote
but for now, gavin et al had exactly what they wanted, that is dividing the community and induce fear

Please.... That is what Blockstream did.  The mess is all their fault.  If you want to save bitcoin, for any purpose, you should get it out of their hands.  

Quote
the rules should be set in stone, and not subject to any major modification and by anyone, or that would create a precedent.

That is not a sensible wish, not even logical.  

For example, next year the block reward will be cut in half.  Why isn't that that a change in the rules?   If the reward is NOT halved, would that be a change?

The 1 MB size limit was meant to be raised by a hard fork, just as the reward was meant to be halved:

It can be phased in, like:

if (blocknumber > 115000)
    maxblocksize = largerlimit

It can start being in versions way ahead, so by the time it reaches that block number and goes into effect, the older versions that don't have it are already obsolete.

When we're near the cutoff block number, I can put an alert to old versions to make sure they know they have to upgrade.

A congested network and a "fee market" were totally not the original design; isn't it a (big!) change to allow those things to occur?  
dreamspark
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August 25, 2015, 12:22:10 AM

One thing is for sure and you can quote me on this later. This whole XT mess will go away at some point when all the devs get together and sort it out, agree to future pull requests etc. When that happens god help the shorts.
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August 25, 2015, 12:24:28 AM

One thing is for sure and you can quote me on this later. This whole XT mess will go away at some point when all the devs get together and sort it out, agree to future pull requests etc. When that happens god help the shorts.
That will never happen until Blockstream is removed from the equation.
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August 25, 2015, 12:27:13 AM

http://blog.blockchain.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Industry-Block-Size-letter-All-Signed.pdf
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August 25, 2015, 12:29:55 AM

Sub $200 about to be tested.

More cheap coins coming.
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August 25, 2015, 12:30:34 AM


block size has to be increased. thats for sure! its just a matter of HOW. XT is the bullys way of forcing things. better is BIP100 or 102
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