Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Fatman3001]

there pretty much consensus about this, XT is a flop

XT has reached is goal imo to put more pressure. It has also brought out the worst in some people and pointed to some related problems (centralization of control over the places the community uses to communicate, for example).

I ran XT on my node for a while for exactly this reason. I never intended to blindly follow Hearns changes in the future and I think I'm not alone.

i really dont think gavin goal was simply put pressure, but it has worked out that way.

i wonder what will happen to him... not sure if the Core devs will take him back, if he can't dev bitcoin, what will he do?? GavinCoin is becoming a real possibility  

What every bitcoiner ever wanted.

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[becoin]

XT has reached is goal imo to put more pressure.

... on bitcoin price.

[Fakhoury]

[brg444]

yup. looks like the final nail into the Bitcoin XT coffin.

won't have lasted more than 2 weeks

[BldSwtTrs]

there pretty much consensus about this, XT is a flop

XT has reached is goal imo to put more pressure. It has also brought out the worst in some people and pointed to some related problems (centralization of control over the places the community uses to communicate, for example).

I ran XT on my node for a while for exactly this reason. I never intended to blindly follow Hearns changes in the future and I think I'm not alone.

The biggest mystery to me is how we arrived at this situation, where Gavin and Mike (felt they) had to resort to the fork solution mess...

Sure, a certain number of maxblockheads resisting any and all changes to the protocol I can see as being unavoidable. But why Gavin didn't manage to convince a majority of the core devs to support some adjustment is still not entirely clear to me.

Either Gavin tried to push exclusively his idea of an adjustment (which, admittedly, can seem a bit drastic) - in that case, it's a failure on his side to compromise. Alternatively, there was a consensus by the rest of the team that the current limit better not be touched at all right now (in which case, Gavin did the right thing, even if the right thing is a huge mess as well).

From the outside, I got the impression it was a combination of the two above, but I wonder if someone closer to the core team knows if one of these two aspects was the dominant factor.

Here's what happened.

Gavin pulled numbers out of his ass based on faulty tests (remember 20MB first?) then when core devs made it clear they wouldn't agree with his proposal dude ran home crying to Mama Hearn and they both decided to bypass core decision making process on the pretence of urgency.

The consensus was that current limit should not be touched under more rigorous testing was done to understand better the implications and unintended consequences of such a decision. Gavin couldn't convince anyone since instead of supporting his proposal w/ more technical material Gavin and Mike went full retard political and steered the ignorant masses into the mess you are witnessing.

That's if you actually believe that Gavin & Mike are not government agents trying to break Bitcoin which a good case can be made for..

So you break Bitcoin by giving choice to the economy to use one code or another?

It's like saying the first altcoin was an attempt to break Bitcoin. If Bitcoin cannot survive these kind of things it doesn't deserve all the hope we put in it. Choice is good, something that has to be a Monopoly to survive is just not worth the attention.

They made it clear to the Blockstream's guys that they don't control the thing, I think that was needful since these guys had started to gain too much confidence.

[qwk]

there pretty much consensus about this, XT is a flop

BIP100 is looking promising, i think if they tweak it a bit to address some people's paranoid concerns about it, its going to win.

Right now, it looks more like the "industry" wants XT and the pools seem to want "something else".
Nobody even bothers to ask what the community wants, since we're all just a bunch of nerds sitting in their mom's basements and trolling each other.

But I agree, XT/BIP 101 doesn't look like it's going to fly.

[Fakhoury]

yup. looks like the final nail into the Bitcoin XT coffin.

won't have lasted more than 2 weeks

The fast re-action is what made me happy.

Seems Adam's $32,000 in 2 years is still valid 

[coinpr0n]

there pretty much consensus about this, XT is a flop

XT has reached is goal imo to put more pressure. It has also brought out the worst in some people and pointed to some related problems (centralization of control over the places the community uses to communicate, for example).

I ran XT on my node for a while for exactly this reason. I never intended to blindly follow Hearns changes in the future and I think I'm not alone.

i really dont think gavin goal was simply put pressure, but it has worked out that way.

i wonder what will happen to him... not sure if the Core devs will take him back, if he can't dev bitcoin, what will he do?? GavinCoin is becoming a real possibility  

Plenty of other projects for him to try and ruin... https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/633800882942025729

@gavinandresen  Aug 19
On vacation this week. Hope to have time to learn a little Go, I'm thinking of contributing some code to btcd....

[BldSwtTrs]

there pretty much consensus about this, XT is a flop

XT has reached is goal imo to put more pressure. It has also brought out the worst in some people and pointed to some related problems (centralization of control over the places the community uses to communicate, for example).

I ran XT on my node for a while for exactly this reason. I never intended to blindly follow Hearns changes in the future and I think I'm not alone.

i really dont think gavin goal was simply put pressure, but it has worked out that way.

i wonder what will happen to him... not sure if the Core devs will take him back, if he can't dev bitcoin, what will he do?? GavinCoin is becoming a real possibility  

Plenty of other projects for him to try and ruin... https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/633800882942025729

@gavinandresen  Aug 19
On vacation this week. Hope to have time to learn a little Go, I'm thinking of contributing some code to btcd....

Why don't you like btcd? Why do you hate choices?

[brg444]

there pretty much consensus about this, XT is a flop

BIP100 is looking promising, i think if they tweak it a bit to address some people's paranoid concerns about it, its going to win.

Right now, it looks more like the "industry" wants XT and the pools seem to want "something else".
Nobody even bothers to ask what the community wants, since we're all just a bunch of nerds sitting in their mom's basements and trolling each other.

But I agree, XT/BIP 101 doesn't look like it's going to fly.

The "industry" is nothing more than VC-tit sucking "entrepreneurs" being lobbied by Gavin & Mike. They're as clueless as they come.

[brg444]

Here's what happened.

Gavin pulled numbers out of his ass based on faulty tests (remember 20MB first?) then when core devs made it clear they wouldn't agree with his proposal dude ran home crying to Mama Hearn and they both decided to bypass core decision making process on the pretence of urgency.

The consensus was that current limit should not be touched under more rigorous testing was done to understand better the implications and unintended consequences of such a decision. Gavin couldn't convince anyone since instead of supporting his proposal w/ more technical material Gavin and Mike went full retard political and steered the ignorant masses into the mess you are witnessing.

That's if you actually believe that Gavin & Mike are not government agents trying to break Bitcoin which a good case can be made for..

So you break Bitcoin by giving choice to the economy to use one code or another?

It's like saying the first altcoin was an attempt to break Bitcoin. If Bitcoin cannot survive these kind of things it doesn't deserve all the hope we put in it. Choice is good, something that has to be a Monopoly to survive is just not worth the attention.

They made it clear to the Blockstream's guys that they don't control the thing, I think that was needful since these guys had started to gain too much confidence.
[/quote]

It was never about "the Blockstream" guys. That's just an invention trolls come up with when all other arguments fail. There's a gang of reputable, technical people opposing Gavin.

The XT coup was never about choice. It was political propaganda to try and create a schism fork by dividing consensus by way of steering the ignorant masses using fallacious arguments.

[tommorisonwebdesign]

there pretty much consensus about this, XT is a flop

BIP100 is looking promising, i think if they tweak it a bit to address some people's paranoid concerns about it, its going to win.

Right now, it looks more like the "industry" wants XT and the pools seem to want "something else".
Nobody even bothers to ask what the community wants, since we're all just a bunch of nerds sitting in their mom's basements and trolling each other.

But I agree, XT/BIP 101 doesn't look like it's going to fly.

The "industry" is nothing more than VC-tit sucking "entrepreneurs" being lobbied by Gavin & Mike. They're as clueless as they come.

You got that one right. We're nothing more than a bunch of geeks, you can't really call ourselves an "industry"

[gentlemand]

The "industry" is nothing more than VC-tit sucking "entrepreneurs" being lobbied by Gavin & Mike. They're as clueless as they come.

It doesn't matter if they're talking kittens from outer space, the ones running the show have the weight.

[findftp]

It's like saying the first altcoin was an attempt to break Bitcoin. If Bitcoin cannot survive these kind of things it doesn't deserve all the hope we put in it.

Ironically, Litecoin was introduced late 2011 when the price crashed (long before my bitcoin birthday btw.).
It almost synchronizes with the current fork debate relative to price and halving.

You all know what happened afterwards.
It's where I've put almost all my fantasy paper.

moon.

[coinpr0n]

there pretty much consensus about this, XT is a flop

XT has reached is goal imo to put more pressure. It has also brought out the worst in some people and pointed to some related problems (centralization of control over the places the community uses to communicate, for example).

I ran XT on my node for a while for exactly this reason. I never intended to blindly follow Hearns changes in the future and I think I'm not alone.

i really dont think gavin goal was simply put pressure, but it has worked out that way.

i wonder what will happen to him... not sure if the Core devs will take him back, if he can't dev bitcoin, what will he do?? GavinCoin is becoming a real possibility  

Plenty of other projects for him to try and ruin... https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/633800882942025729

@gavinandresen  Aug 19
On vacation this week. Hope to have time to learn a little Go, I'm thinking of contributing some code to btcd....

Why don't you like btcd? Why do you hate choices?

That wasn't my point. Quite the opposite, I like btcd. I would just hate to see it ruined. Also, don't hate Gavin that much, but it's fun.

[noobtrader]

The "industry" is nothing more than VC-tit sucking "entrepreneurs" being lobbied by Gavin & Mike. They're as clueless as they come.

It doesn't matter if they're talking kittens from outer space, the ones running the show have the weight.

miner vs "industry" vs developer

which one is really running the show ?

[qwk]

The "industry" is nothing more than VC-tit sucking "entrepreneurs" being lobbied by Gavin & Mike. They're as clueless as they come.

It doesn't matter if they're talking kittens from outer space, the ones running the show have the weight.

miner vs "industry" vs developer
which one is really running the show ?

Money talks. People listen.

[brg444]

The "industry" is nothing more than VC-tit sucking "entrepreneurs" being lobbied by Gavin & Mike. They're as clueless as they come.

It doesn't matter if they're talking kittens from outer space, the ones running the show have the weight.

miner vs "industry" vs developer
which one is really running the show ?

Money talks. People listen.

In Bitcoin the amount of USD you can throw around, unless you buy BTC with it, is pretty much irrelevant.

A bunch of startups "running the show".... Gimme a break

[qwk]

A bunch of startups "running the show".... Gimme a break

What do you think would happen if it came to a fork of some kind, let's not necessarily assume XT/Core but anything else.
Bitpay choses to no longer process payments coming from one chain but only from the other.
Which chance of survival would you give the other chain?
I'd say zero.

[brg444]

A bunch of startups "running the show".... Gimme a break

What do you think would happen if it came to a fork of some kind, let's not necessarily assume XT/Core but anything else.
Bitpay choses to no longer process payments coming from one chain but only from the other.
Which chance of survival would you give the other chain?
I'd say zero.

Bitpay's "payment processing" is an irrelevant, marginally small aspect of Bitcoin as it is now.

Are you really under the impression that people are actually buying stuff with Bitcoin? By that I mean any significant amount?