Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

I guess no one here is bothering to correlate the price swings with the wild fluctuations in hashrate.

Miners now playing with hashrate to induce volatility, lol.  Must mean there aren't any real traders in the market.

Yeah... go ahead and attempt to correlate price and hashrate, I doubt you are going to find much, if any correlation, and if you do, it may likely be called coincidence, rather than correlation.

Furthermore, you are back on this theme describing few traders, which has been one of your past themes, which remains a kind of ridiculousness that seems to be loosely correlated with facts.  

Sure trade volume remains fairly low in recent times which causes relatively easier abilities for any bigger players to manipulate BTC prices through trade, but those kind of facts are fairly unlikely to lead reasonable conspiracy inferences of miner manipulation..          It makes very little sense logically that miners are the actual supposed manipulators.

Actually JJG, the onus is on you to provide proof that Miners *aren't* manipulating the market, aka the actual market makers.

Prove it. With facts.  

I'll wait right here...   

Actually, you are full of it.


I think that logically it should be fairly clear that you are the one who is making the extraordinary claim.

And, have you ever heard of the expression, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof"?

Whether you are being disingenuous, when you attempt to shift the burden onto me or you are dumb is a bit of a question.  At this point, I personally doubt that you are actually dumb, so it seems that it is more likely that you are being disingenuous with your nonsensical assertion that I have a burden to show that miners are not manipulating BTC prices, etc.

Also, in the end, to the extent that there is actual manipulation going on in the bitcoin space (prices specifically), does it really make much of a difference concerning what we are going to do based on who is doing it, and why?   

Regarding BTC prices, and our concerns about price directions, yeah, each of us are going to account for a variety of factors concerning how and when to allocate our investment into bitcoin, if at all.

Sure, reasons for price manipulation could matter in some kinds of outlier scenarios, but really these alleged specifics concerning attempting to identify sources of manipulation (specifically identifying miners) and to draw fringe conclusions seems to harp on pie in the sky fantasy land speculation and less probable scenarios rather than any kind of central material and important dynamic in bitcoin price dynamics that cannot be accommodated based on more important considerations.

[Gyrsur]

Is the network under a spam attack or something like that? the unconfirmed transactions keep going up.

https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

last block is 30 min old. it's called variance.

and this is obvious also not the answer to the scaling question to lift up the blocksize limit. I don't want to wait 30 min for the first confirmation if I pay something in Bitcoin.

[Gyrsur]

Is the network under a spam attack or something like that? the unconfirmed transactions keep going up.

https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

last block is 30 min old. it's called variance.

and this is obvious also not the answer to the scaling question to lift up the blocksize limit. I don't want to wait 30 min for the first cinfirmation if I pay something in Bitcoin.

Well I have been waiting 3 hours+ for my transaction first confirmation  

yes because it is on-chain with bad luck.

but now 40 min. maybe we lost connection to china because of the great (fire-)wall?

so maybe the forked for themselve to 2MB?  

or Ethereum strikes back?

[Meuh6879]

oh no, we don't ...

[harrymmmm]

Imo, purchasing a Trezor shoud be a obligation for every long-term bitcoiner.

Only me and bitcoin core can manage my private key ...

I have to agree with paashaas here.

When my trezor arrived all the cold storage worries went out the door.
The worries about the pc being keylogged vanished.
It now even handles keys and processing for password management on my various subscription sites, and acts as a 2fa device completely controlled by me.

Very nice and well worth the $100.

I do wish the site had a warrant canary tho, so i could have more trust in the firmware. but hey, it's better than anything else out there.

[old fart]

Imo, purchasing a Trezor shoud be a obligation for every long-term bitcoiner.

Only me and bitcoin core can manage my private key ...

I have to agree with paashaas here.

When my trezor arrived all the cold storage worries went out the door.
The worries about the pc being keylogged vanished.
It now even handles keys and processing for password management on my various subscription sites, and acts as a 2fa device completely controlled by me.

Very nice and well worth the $100.

I do wish the site had a warrant canary tho, so i could have more trust in the firmware. but hey, it's better than anything else out there.

Is the private key stored on flash memory inside the trezor? What happens if the trezor's memory becomes faulty like a flash drive's eventually does? Do you lose your bitcoins unless you have backed up your private key? I don't trust any one storage system with my private keys because they all become faulty eventually.

[harrymmmm]

Imo, purchasing a Trezor shoud be a obligation for every long-term bitcoiner.

Only me and bitcoin core can manage my private key ...

I have to agree with paashaas here.

When my trezor arrived all the cold storage worries went out the door.
The worries about the pc being keylogged vanished.
It now even handles keys and processing for password management on my various subscription sites, and acts as a 2fa device completely controlled by me.

Very nice and well worth the $100.

I do wish the site had a warrant canary tho, so i could have more trust in the firmware. but hey, it's better than anything else out there.

Is the private key stored on flash memory inside the trezor?

yes

What happens if the trezor's memory becomes faulty like a flash drive's eventually does? Do you lose your bitcoins unless you have backed up your private key? I don't trust any one storage system with my private keys because they all become faulty eventually.

It's an HD scheme, so once you save the master seed (24 words), you're guaranteed to be able to restore the wallet fully anywhere that can handle the format (new trezor, various popular wallets, etc).

And, of course, saving that seed is the FIRST thing you do with any new trezor. Backing it up in multiple very safe places is also a no-brainer.

[Paashaas]

^Well said.

Imo, purchasing a Trezor shoud be a obligation for every long-term bitcoiner.

Only me and bitcoin core can manage my private key ...

Fixed.

[Searing]

^Well said.

Imo, purchasing a Trezor shoud be a obligation for every long-term bitcoiner.

Only me and bitcoin core can manage my private key ...

Fixed.

Just use paper wallets (I mostly mine and hold) and have a hot wallet on the laptop for 1 BTC or less .....or same $$$ wise on the LTC wallet

Keeps me honest and holding if I have to go to the bank safety deposit box to move coin about paper wallet wise

sometimes it is just about managing your cyrpto....to make sure what you mine flows in and "MOST" of it after expenses sticks around my grubby little (I want to spend on toys now) hands

[Karartma1]

talking price we are floating on the $625 mark. Volume is going down almost anywhere: it seems someone needs to load his ammo to start shooting in the air again.

[Elwar]

Re: Trezor

Don't be too trusting of hardware. Especially if it is specifically made to hold peoples' Bitcoin (which the government does not like).

Trezor may be perfectly fine now. Just keep in mind those encrypted e-mail hosting services and the letters they received from the government requiring a back door.

[Denker]

Re: Trezor

Don't be too trusting of hardware. Especially if it is specifically made to hold peoples' Bitcoin (which the government does not like).

Trezor may be perfectly fine now. Just keep in mind those encrypted e-mail hosting services and the letters they received from the government requiring a back door.

Yes that might be a problem in the future.
But Trezor is open source as far as I know right.
So how to put a backdoor in an open device where all the code is visible?

[Elwar]

Re: Trezor

Don't be too trusting of hardware. Especially if it is specifically made to hold peoples' Bitcoin (which the government does not like).

Trezor may be perfectly fine now. Just keep in mind those encrypted e-mail hosting services and the letters they received from the government requiring a back door.

Yes that might be a problem in the future.
But Trezor is open source as far as I know right.
So how to put a backdoor in an open device where all the code is visible?

The software code is open source.

I won't get into how hardware can be manipulated.

Look up Stuxnet and other types of government manipulation of every day devices.

[toknormal]

Earwig. Low.

http://fortune.com/2016/10/18/winklevoss-state-street-bitcoin-etf-administrator/

[paul2000]

The bitcoin price's started to going down. What do you think guys? This will continue till where?

at least double digits if not single in the worst case! 

A new fear could emerge in 2017: The fear of triple digits.

[JayJuanGee]

Is the network under a spam attack or something like that? the unconfirmed transactions keep going up.

https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

last block is 30 min old. it's called variance.

and this is obvious also not the answer to the scaling question to lift up the blocksize limit. I don't want to wait 30 min for the first cinfirmation if I pay something in Bitcoin.

Well I have been waiting 3 hours+ for my transaction first confirmation 

Yesterday, about 18 hours ago, I did a BTC buying transaction of about 3.5 BTC on the chain.  That was around the peak of the mempool backup.


The guy selling the 3.5 BTC to me was using Mycelium and I was using the Blockchain.info wallet.  I use my local bitcoins advert to establish our agreed to buying price, and the Localbitcoins website gave a warning that  "due to an ongoing attack on the network"  transactions may take more than 3 hours to go through (even though they will show up immediately as "pending").   

Since I had already done several transaction with the guy selling me the 3.5 coins, I felt that the likely delay in confirmation was not a major risk problem for me in terms of the likelihood that he would attempt to pull shenanigans on me, such as attempting a double spend.

He used a fee of about .00015BTC (about $.095 - which is almost 10 cents), and the transaction took 83 minutes for the first confirmation.  I did not watch the transaction, so I am not sure how long it took for the next 2 confirmations and for the coins to become available for my usage.  Usually the first confirmation takes the longest, and the second two confirmations will usually go through within less than 30 minutes from the time of the first confirmation.

Possibly, if i had been dealing with a less trustworthy person, I may have been a bit more hesitant about going through with the transaction during a mempool backup period - though the peak of the backup seemed to have only been a few hours, and currently the back up is down to more "normal" levels.

[dmwardjr]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ecb-wants-to-curb-bitcoin-use-over-fears-it-may-lose-control-over-money-supply.html

[JayJuanGee]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ecb-wants-to-curb-bitcoin-use-over-fears-it-may-lose-control-over-money-supply.html

Is that news bearish, or bullish?    I would think that it is more bearish, yet the question remains whether such bearish news is going to have a bearish impact?  Apparently, according to the article, the ECB (which I believe is European Central Bank) made a very similar observation in 2012, and then what happened in 2013?

[Hyperjacked]

I guess no one here is bothering to correlate the price swings with the wild fluctuations in hashrate.

Miners now playing with hashrate to induce volatility, lol.  Must mean there aren't any real traders in the market.

Yeah... go ahead and attempt to correlate price and hashrate, I doubt you are going to find much, if any correlation, and if you do, it may likely be called coincidence, rather than correlation.

Furthermore, you are back on this theme describing few traders, which has been one of your past themes, which remains a kind of ridiculousness that seems to be loosely correlated with facts.  

Sure trade volume remains fairly low in recent times which causes relatively easier abilities for any bigger players to manipulate BTC prices through trade, but those kind of facts are fairly unlikely to lead reasonable conspiracy inferences of miner manipulation..          It makes very little sense logically that miners are the actual supposed manipulators.

Actually JJG, the onus is on you to provide proof that Miners *aren't* manipulating the market, aka the actual market makers.

Prove it. With facts.  

I'll wait right here...   

Actually, you are full of it.


I think that logically it should be fairly clear that you are the one who is making the extraordinary claim.

And, have you ever heard of the expression, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof"?

Whether you are being disingenuous, when you attempt to shift the burden onto me or you are dumb is a bit of a question.  At this point, I personally doubt that you are actually dumb, so it seems that it is more likely that you are being disingenuous with your nonsensical assertion that I have a burden to show that miners are not manipulating BTC prices, etc.

Also, in the end, to the extent that there is actual manipulation going on in the bitcoin space (prices specifically), does it really make much of a difference concerning what we are going to do based on who is doing it, and why?   

Regarding BTC prices, and our concerns about price directions, yeah, each of us are going to account for a variety of factors concerning how and when to allocate our investment into bitcoin, if at all.

Sure, reasons for price manipulation could matter in some kinds of outlier scenarios, but really these alleged specifics concerning attempting to identify sources of manipulation (specifically identifying miners) and to draw fringe conclusions seems to harp on pie in the sky fantasy land speculation and less probable scenarios rather than any kind of central material and important dynamic in bitcoin price dynamics that cannot be accommodated based on more important considerations.

Torque thinks outa da box like me...maybe makes the most sense around here so I would shut my dumb a$$ mouth and listen up for once!

[JayJuanGee]

I guess no one here is bothering to correlate the price swings with the wild fluctuations in hashrate.

Miners now playing with hashrate to induce volatility, lol.  Must mean there aren't any real traders in the market.

Yeah... go ahead and attempt to correlate price and hashrate, I doubt you are going to find much, if any correlation, and if you do, it may likely be called coincidence, rather than correlation.

Furthermore, you are back on this theme describing few traders, which has been one of your past themes, which remains a kind of ridiculousness that seems to be loosely correlated with facts.  

Sure trade volume remains fairly low in recent times which causes relatively easier abilities for any bigger players to manipulate BTC prices through trade, but those kind of facts are fairly unlikely to lead reasonable conspiracy inferences of miner manipulation..          It makes very little sense logically that miners are the actual supposed manipulators.

Actually JJG, the onus is on you to provide proof that Miners *aren't* manipulating the market, aka the actual market makers.

Prove it. With facts.  

I'll wait right here...   

Actually, you are full of it.


I think that logically it should be fairly clear that you are the one who is making the extraordinary claim.

And, have you ever heard of the expression, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof"?

Whether you are being disingenuous, when you attempt to shift the burden onto me or you are dumb is a bit of a question.  At this point, I personally doubt that you are actually dumb, so it seems that it is more likely that you are being disingenuous with your nonsensical assertion that I have a burden to show that miners are not manipulating BTC prices, etc.

Also, in the end, to the extent that there is actual manipulation going on in the bitcoin space (prices specifically), does it really make much of a difference concerning what we are going to do based on who is doing it, and why?   

Regarding BTC prices, and our concerns about price directions, yeah, each of us are going to account for a variety of factors concerning how and when to allocate our investment into bitcoin, if at all.

Sure, reasons for price manipulation could matter in some kinds of outlier scenarios, but really these alleged specifics concerning attempting to identify sources of manipulation (specifically identifying miners) and to draw fringe conclusions seems to harp on pie in the sky fantasy land speculation and less probable scenarios rather than any kind of central material and important dynamic in bitcoin price dynamics that cannot be accommodated based on more important considerations.

Torque thinks outa da box like me...maybe makes the most sense around here so I would shut my dumb a$$ mouth and listen up for once!

Oh??? is that what you goofball fantasyland non-substantive bear trolls are calling your nonsensical attempts at FUD spreading, "thinking outa da box?"   hahahaha