Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

I hear you. But the landscape is changing. With all these forks there's an insidious kind of inflation happening. Bitcoincash, Bitcoingold...and now the big guns with Segwit2x. Doesn't that skew the math a bit in your mind?

It is not exactly inflation. If you adopt the view that each bitcoin you hold represents 1/21,000,000 of the total economic value, then your purchasing power is unaffected by these splits -- neither positively nor negatively.

Your response here make almost no sense whatsoever, especially since you also seem to be an advocate of these supposed take-over bitcoins.  

So if there is any kind of question at all in terms of what is the real bitcoin, then forks are dilutions of the real bitcoin (and does not matter which version you believe to be the real version, as long as there is any kind of market value that is given to competing non-bitcoins)

The only way you get NO dilution whatsoever, is if the various non-competing versions of bitcoin have no value and no perception of value (and what kind of fantasy world is that).  I will assert that through the passage of time, many of these competing versions of bitcoin have a decent chance of going to zero if they stop getting support - but how fucking long is that going to take when you have a number of persons out there, including yourself (whether we refer to them as nutjobs or not) who are either pumping value into them or proclaiming that the competing version is the real bitcoin - and possibly a few gullible folks buy the message because they either really believe it or they think possibly they could get rich from such a outside likelihood of a transformation, if such transformation were to take place.

As to your earlier question, I am primarily in hodl. When I get a hankerin' for stinky fiat...
1) set aside a small amount of Bitcoin for trading
2) make a series of laddered sell orders with your trading funds
3) as your orders get bought into, place buy orders of the dollar value of the sell, but at a lower bitcoin price
4) as your buys execute, enter sells at a higher bitcoin price
5) rinse and repeat. With volatility, the net effect is that your quantity of Bitcoin will grow
6) the net direction is up. You will over time accumulate a backlog of open buy orders that are unlikely to ever be bought into
7) as your open buy orders cross the threshold of implausibility, cancel them. Now they are cash.
8 ) you may or may not be bitcoin positive at this point. Either way, you are cash positive
9) when your pile of stinky fiat gets big enough that you don't know how to spend it, withdraw any remaining open sell orders.
10) Sit back and let bitcoin get pricier until the cash itch returns.

Actually, this is a real nice step by step description that borders on perfection... hahahahha.. funny I say that about the content of one of your post.. Miracles do happen.    


Regarding your point 8:  There are ways to structure your sales in order that you never run out of bitcoin - even if bitcoin reaches $10 million.  You just project ahead in order that you never run out, which means not selling too many and possibly monitoring or adjusting if it appears that you are selling too many that would cause you deficiencies at various points.  Also, you can use some of the cash that you accumulated based on your step 7 to make a few adjustments, here or there to your holdings and to buy on dips, to the extent reasonable and practical for your situation.. and possibly, also, like you seem to suggest the cash accumulated from step 7 might not ever be reinvested, but possibly just used for personal pleasure (if any of us can imagine such things beyond posting in these forums... hahahaha).

Regarding your points 9 & 10:  I think that there are going to be quite a few of us who may be in a situation similar to this, if we have been employing such a staggered buy/sell strategy for the past couple of years when there has been between 10x and 20x BTC price appreciation, depending upon when you got in and how you had played the matter - so there have likely been quite a few of us having to consider and reconsider these kinds of matters, in part based on BTC performance that may have shot above expectations, while employing strategies to address a likely scenario of "too much fiat."  
After going through this, I have figured out ways to approach my too much fiat "problem" that differs slightly from your approach.  I don't actually cancel BTC sales orders; however, I tend to make those BTC sales orders smaller and perhaps spread them out a bit larger, also you can get into a temporary arrangement of buying back a bit more than you sell in order to help to bring a better balance... another option is just to hang onto the money for a couple of situations such as 1) the price corrects downwardly so much that you want to garner up as much fiat that you can in order to throw at what appears to be a bargain basement situation or 2) just do the outrageous thing of completely removing the money completely from the table and spending it (and actually having some fun with it - far fetched as that may seem   )..

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[El duderino_]

END list, good luck!

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[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The BCH peg is coming unloose. Any guesses where it will be when Coinbase releases their bag to the people?

[btcbeliever]

1) set aside a small amount of Bitcoin for trading
2) make a series of laddered sell orders with your trading funds
3) as your orders get bought into, place buy orders of the dollar value of the sell, but at a lower bitcoin price
4) as your buys execute, enter sells at a higher bitcoin price
5) rinse and repeat. With volatility, the net effect is that your quantity of Bitcoin will grow
6) the net direction is up. You will over time accumulate a backlog of open buy orders that are unlikely to ever be bought into
7) as your open buy orders cross the threshold of implausibility, cancel them. Now they are cash.
8 ) you may or may not be bitcoin positive at this point. Either way, you are cash positive
9) when your pile of stinky fiat gets big enough that you don't know how to spend it, withdraw any remaining open sell orders.
10) Sit back and let bitcoin get pricier until the cash itch returns.

Now this is a nice revolving system. For the earliest adopters, there is the nice "got fiat even" milestone when you withdrew as much fiat as you put in. The milestone can be hit several times, depending on the timing of buys and sells.

How can you trade without generating 1099b and paying 30-50% to criminal irs? At least in ysa in high tax states

[Meuh6879]

answer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu5Mtvy97-4

[jojo69]

How can you trade without generating 1099b and paying 30-50% to criminal irs? At least in ysa in high tax states

[Torque]

...

this hodl philosophy will really hurt bitcoin one day. this could end in some kind of deflation spiral...

What if I told you that Bitcoin´s best use case was savings all the time?
Bitcoin is deflationary by design, which is even more extreme due to coins
that are lost forever (lost private keys, people that die with a stash of BTC
without anyone knowing about it...).

This increases scarcity, which is extremely valuable and necessary for BTC
to act as a store of value - something that most so called fiat currencies
are not!

Yeah it hasn't hurt gold or silver.  Also, see Gresham's Law.

Gresham's Law also applies to the information the public is receiving about Bitcoin right now.
Bad information (MSM negativity propoganda) drives out good information (what Bitcoin researchers know).

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Jackbooted gubmint thugs have feelings too.

[RoomBot]

I guess I'm alone in thinking these projections are wildly optimistic. Am I?

Nope.

"EVERY time the price doubles?"     You know we're in the $4000s now, right?

LMAO

[RoomBot]

Guys, is hodl a paradox? When are we supposed to enjoy our riches? I've never had riches before. Should I be living in a richly place now? I've never lived in a richly place before.

I just don't know.

Some time back, I bought my wife an Instant Pot (fancy pressure cooker) with Bitcoin at a 25% discount via Amazon/Purse.io. Told her by using Bitcoin (which was already way up for me), it was the cheapest Instant Pot money could buy.    

Then Bitcoin quintupled.

Now she looks at the Instant Pot and says, "Most expensive fucking Instant Pot money could buy."    And sits there scheming over all the things she could have bought HODLing instead.

So yes. HODL is a paradox. Yes indeed.

Nevermind I bought all the dips on the way up. Nevermind I can retire early now. That fucking Instant Pot will always be my HODL reminder.

"Yes honey, it's a lovely house, but we could have bought a fucking castle, you idiot!"

Wow, glass so half empty there!

I bought my dream bike with some of my BTC gains 3 months ago, and even as I expect the market value to shoot the Moon, I will never look back and regret it. Of course I'm HODLing most of it.

Life is for living, yo.

[RoomBot]

Charlie has the better deal that's for sure; however, Roger probably does not give a shit because he has so much money and he is so filled with emotion, and he does not mind throwing away 250 BTC for this cause...... in order to replace that BTC with something that is lucky to have 1/10 the value...  Sure, a publicity stunt that may cost Roger around $1million... to trade BTC for what is likely to be our newest introduction of a shitcoin.

For some reason, 20 years from now I foresee Roger Ver as broke and homeless, having foolishly squandered all his Bitcoin and other money because he is an un-savvy, piss poor investor and money manager and often lets his emotions get the best of him. Kinda like those people who win the lotto, only to be completely broke a few years later.

He will be the rags-to-riches-back-to-rags story of this generation.

Tweeting that Charlie Lee is "economically ignorant" is not winning him more friends either.

[Elwar]

Guys, is hodl a paradox? When are we supposed to enjoy our riches? I've never had riches before. Should I be living in a richly place now? I've never lived in a richly place before.

I just don't know.

Some time back, I bought my wife an Instant Pot (fancy pressure cooker) with Bitcoin at a 25% discount via Amazon/Purse.io. Told her by using Bitcoin (which was already way up for me), it was the cheapest Instant Pot money could buy.   

Then Bitcoin quintupled.

Now she looks at the Instant Pot and says, "Most expensive fucking Instant Pot money could buy."     And sits there scheming over all the things she could have bought HODLing instead.

So yes. HODL is a paradox. Yes indeed.

Nevermind I bought all the dips on the way up. Nevermind I can retire early now. That fucking Instant Pot will always be my HODL reminder.

"Yes honey, it's a lovely house, but we could have bought a fucking castle, you idiot!"

If you paid with dollars then that would be 25% less dollars you would have to buy bitcoins.

You also perpetuate that bitcoin is only used for buying pot.

[JayJuanGee]

Sometime soon after August 1, I had written into Localbitcoins, and I was inquiring how to retrieve my BCH.  They told me that they were not going to Support BCH, so I was losing my BCH.  

Today, I was trying to figure out why there was a discrepancy in my Localbitcoin's account, and I had about 11% more bitcoin's in my account.  So I went back to trace my transactions, and it showed that on September 25, they had given me "airdrop" credits for my BCH in terms of about 11.27%.. hahahahahhahaha... A windfall for me, because I had already been grumbling and complaining to myself and I had pretty much written off those coins.... Magic?  

I think that for some reason Local bitcoins wanted to keep good will with their customers.. and so they deserve a thank you to local bitcoins for doing the right thing!!!!

[jbreher]

1) set aside a small amount of Bitcoin for trading
2) make a series of laddered sell orders with your trading funds
3) as your orders get bought into, place buy orders of the dollar value of the sell, but at a lower bitcoin price
4) as your buys execute, enter sells at a higher bitcoin price
5) rinse and repeat. With volatility, the net effect is that your quantity of Bitcoin will grow
6) the net direction is up. You will over time accumulate a backlog of open buy orders that are unlikely to ever be bought into
7) as your open buy orders cross the threshold of implausibility, cancel them. Now they are cash.
8 ) you may or may not be bitcoin positive at this point. Either way, you are cash positive
9) when your pile of stinky fiat gets big enough that you don't know how to spend it, withdraw any remaining open sell orders.
10) Sit back and let bitcoin get pricier until the cash itch returns.

Now this is a nice revolving system. For the earliest adopters, there is the nice "got fiat even" milestone when you withdrew as much fiat as you put in. The milestone can be hit several times, depending on the timing of buys and sells.

How can you trade without generating 1099b and paying 30-50% to criminal irs? At least in ysa in high tax states

If you are asking me how you can safely break the law, I can't answer that for you. I skirt any such issues by claiming as cap gains, either short or long term, or as simple income, as each transaction is required by law.

Frankly, i agree with your assertion that the current application of tax law is criminal. But the courts that hear tax cases -- up through appeals courts -- do not allow any discussion of the conflict between the law as enacted, the executive branch regulations which are mere administrative interpretations of the law, and the IRS policies and procedures as encoded into forms and instructions. And the Supremes routinely refuse writ of certiorari on such cases.

As a consequence, I just keep my head down and play the game as they define it. There is essentially zero chance of making them toe the line of the law until that day when a majority of the populace wakes to how evil the system has become.

Looking at the dawning understanding of the evils of partial reserve banking amongst the people, I am encouraged to think that day may come before I draw my last breath.

I'd suggest you discuss with a qualified CPA or financial lawyer. That respects crypto. The intersection is pretty small, but growing.

[yonton]

Sometime soon after August 1, I had written into Localbitcoins, and I was inquiring how to retrieve my BCH.  They told me that they were not going to Support BCH, so I was losing my BCH.  

Today, I was trying to figure out why there was a discrepancy in my Localbitcoin's account, and I had about 11% more bitcoin's in my account.  So I went back to trace my transactions, and it showed that on September 25, they had given me "airdrop" credits for my BCH in terms of about 11.27%.. hahahahahhahaha... A windfall for me, because I had already been grumbling and complaining to myself and I had pretty much written off those coins.... Magic?  

I think that for some reason Local bitcoins wanted to keep good will with their customers.. and so they deserve a thank you to local bitcoins for doing the right thing!!!!

+1 to local bitcoins for the solid support of its customers!!

[RejectedBanana]

Guys, is hodl a paradox? When are we supposed to enjoy our riches? I've never had riches before. Should I be living in a richly place now? I've never lived in a richly place before.

I just don't know.

Some time back, I bought my wife an Instant Pot (fancy pressure cooker) with Bitcoin at a 25% discount via Amazon/Purse.io. Told her by using Bitcoin (which was already way up for me), it was the cheapest Instant Pot money could buy.    

Then Bitcoin quintupled.

Now she looks at the Instant Pot and says, "Most expensive fucking Instant Pot money could buy."    And sits there scheming over all the things she could have bought HODLing instead.

So yes. HODL is a paradox. Yes indeed.

Nevermind I bought all the dips on the way up. Nevermind I can retire early now. That fucking Instant Pot will always be my HODL reminder.

"Yes honey, it's a lovely house, but we could have bought a fucking castle, you idiot!"

Wow, glass so half empty there!

I bought my dream bike with some of my BTC gains 3 months ago, and even as I expect the market value to shoot the Moon, I will never look back and regret it. Of course I'm HODLing most of it.

Life is for living, yo.

Don't get me wrong - I don't have any regrets! Your Bitcoin ain't worth a thing if you don't spend it!

Just try explaining this concept to me wifey wife.    I don't know about yours, but mine expects perfect prescience. 

"You knew it was going to quintuple and you spent it anyway??" 

[yonton]

I have to admit, I am becoming a bit like Smeigle.

[RejectedBanana]

If you paid with dollars then that would be 25% less dollars you would have to buy bitcoins.

You also perpetuate that bitcoin is only used for buying pot.

LOL, or cooking it.

I like the way you think. MOAR Bitcoin! My Precious...

[RoomBot]

Guys, is hodl a paradox? When are we supposed to enjoy our riches? I've never had riches before. Should I be living in a richly place now? I've never lived in a richly place before.

I just don't know.

Some time back, I bought my wife an Instant Pot (fancy pressure cooker) with Bitcoin at a 25% discount via Amazon/Purse.io. Told her by using Bitcoin (which was already way up for me), it was the cheapest Instant Pot money could buy.    

Then Bitcoin quintupled.

Now she looks at the Instant Pot and says, "Most expensive fucking Instant Pot money could buy."    And sits there scheming over all the things she could have bought HODLing instead.

So yes. HODL is a paradox. Yes indeed.

Nevermind I bought all the dips on the way up. Nevermind I can retire early now. That fucking Instant Pot will always be my HODL reminder.

"Yes honey, it's a lovely house, but we could have bought a fucking castle, you idiot!"

Wow, glass so half empty there!

I bought my dream bike with some of my BTC gains 3 months ago, and even as I expect the market value to shoot the Moon, I will never look back and regret it. Of course I'm HODLing most of it.

Life is for living, yo.

Don't get me wrong - I don't have any regrets! Your Bitcoin ain't worth a thing if you don't spend it!

Just try explaining this concept to me wifey wife.    I don't know about yours, but mine expects perfect prescience. 

"You knew it was going to quintuple and you spent it anyway??" 

I'm single, no kids, thus I can buy myself an e-bike with my Coin and no one complains.

Just tell your wife that if you were 100% prescient, you never would have married her. 

[LewisPirenne]

I have to admit, I am becoming a bit like Smeigle.

Its "Sméagol" you illiterate fuck !

Hey, you can't expect everyone to be a scholar in Quenya, Sindarin, or is that Númenórean?

But more opt comparison is probably with the dwarf or dragon of Middle Earth, whose eye lit up with sight of (bitcoin) their precious hoard.  Having bitcoin does kind of change your thinking, but does not really corrupt you or turn you evil yet.  Though some here may say otherwise about the various head figures of current BTC civil war.