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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25462894 times)
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April 23, 2021, 08:09:05 PM
Merited by LoyceV (4), JimboToronto (3)


The level of ignorance on this board is really astonishing. Frankly i was expecting more objective opinions. Argument that ultrarich in US are dispropotionally benefiting from current tax system and every year accumulate higher % of overall wealth, quickly gets shifted into taxation is bad so unless we get rid of it, i'm gonna block any changes. The result? Conveniently keeping current status quo and ultrarich continue to be taxed at lower bracket than teachers.



I know a lot of you in here probably got a bunch of newfound wealth in recent months, even though 1BTC = 1BTC no matter what, but damn.. Never thought I'd see so many people oppose an increased tax to people who declare over $1m CAP GAINS a year. Happy friday WO.

Increasing taxes never benefits anyone,
To make a country prosperous, low tax, low spend is the formula.

Singapore one of the richest countries in the world was once one of the poorest.
It was helped to its current status by low taxation.
Top personal tax rate 22%
Corporation Tax 17%
Capital gains Tax 0%
Death Tax 0%
No double taxation on interest and dividends.

Biden and his well meaning but deluded socialist and Marxist backers will leave their tenure in 4 years time with the country in much worse shape.

Time to finish breakfast and off to work.
This reminds me of people showing charts with randomly picked time frames to justify their assumption. Many richer countries have higher taxes, look up taxation in Luxembourg.



Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.

Ignoring retarded friend/foe FOX vs MSNBC attempt at division from the start, true, but if he wished right now he could easily convert it all at a 20% tax hit. Meaning right now Bezos can get $141billion worth of gold which is around 2.5million tons (if my maths are right) probably enough to fill some pool with coins. Care to guess how much his paper net worth jumped in just last year? (Hint it's over 20%) Net effect of transferring funds from company A to company B is 0 (actually it's a loss after tax hit). Value and jobs only come in if company B is more efficient and more profitable than company A.




Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Also it would be trivial to game the new cap gain tax law. Do you know how many wealthy U.S. millionaires/billionaires would be running around claiming exactly $999,999 in income on their taxes every year?

All of them.

Hell, most of the C-Level of the biggest U.S. companies don't even get paid an income, they take stock options as compensation.

Bingo, ever wondered why ultra rich are willing to take $0 of their compensation in wages (taxed at same rate as teachers) and all of it in stock options taxed at 20%? (just don't try to to do it yourself if you try to classify all of your small business income in US as distributions you'll go to jail). It'd be very hard nah impossible for billionaires to survive on $999,999/yr ask Bob  Wink

... Also, a wealth taxes is outright confiscation and is against everything free democratic societies stand for. I don't know where you live but I'm guessing there are not a lot of rich people there.

Switzerland has wealth tax


...

The only way any of that is possible is because The Netherlands is one of the biggest tax havens in the world for mega corporations. Your country skims a little off the top of the taxes that would otherwise be due in every other country in the world. If The Netherlands had to stand on it's own with your tax policies, it would look like soviet era eastern Europe.

US has been the biggest tax heaven in the world for a while now. Educate yourself
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_as_a_tax_haven
https://www.forbes.com/sites/toddganos/2019/09/19/worlds-best-tax-haven-the-united-states/
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April 23, 2021, 08:11:02 PM

Definitely think this (hopefully temporary) dip has highlighted the somewhat overzealous predictions of late. Some of the alt predictions that were thrown around especially were crazy. Some of those alts have literally dropped right back down to lower than they were 3 years ago.  Shocked

With regards to king Bitcoin, I can definitely see a 75K and hopefully a 100K bitcoin later this year. Maybe more.
But 288K or 500K within the year? I doubt it. The 50K and 60K markers just seemed to have been too much of a struggle to quickly get over for something like that I think.

Obviously the long term trend is going up but we are literally at mid Feb prices again and that is with 2 months of quite bullish news.

I hope we continue to follow the Stock 2 flow Plan B model but honestly I'd just be happy if we can reach the likes of 250K-500K by say 2028-2029.
I think eventually his model will fail as it seems too good to be true.

If Saylor and Musk hadn't come along that model would probably already be out of the window by now. That's not to say Bitcoin doesn't go up and the longterm isn't bullish, it's just I think there are several coincidences that sometimes make it appear why a specific model works.

I hope I'm wrong though.



for me look like very long and not so probable in a bullrun cycle. With your hypothese, it means that :



Plan C: a spring-early summer dip (not lower than 40K), slight upward starting in Aug, bull restarting in Sept, accelerating into NOv ETF approval.
Bull culmination in Dec 2021-march 2022 at $150-300K

- We are side way since end of february
- Going really down from April till july
- slow small recovery in august
- Go up again from september

So like 6 months side ways and down in a bullrun before going really up? hmm...  Roll Eyes

+1! I respect Biodom he's had posted some really great and totally sound ideas in the past but this is laughable...  got bitten by proudhon perhaps?  Grin  or another victim of Mindrust-Gembitz syndrome?  Grin    
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April 23, 2021, 08:16:51 PM

To those who thinks that $1mil is a lot: it sounds like  lot, but...

This is the crux of my issue. As someone sitting on a pile of coin, and retired, why the fuck would I have any incentive to sell corn under those absolutely retarded proposed tax rates?

TBH, and I don't want to sound like a total dick-bag or anything, but every time I sell, $1M is the bare minimum I dump at any time, and cruise on it until I need more. I'm fucking stupid that way. Sue me.

I hope you can appreciate why this proposed increase twists my panties up a little bit. I mean, if this means I just need to sell <$1M USD per year, then so be it, but it's just ridiculous, in that it promotes hodling by us hardcore folk.

Having said that, I'm sure the time will come in the next 5 years, where I decide to buy up the parcel of 100 acres next to us, and erect a proper Citadel, complete with a goddamn lava-filled moat, fed via drilling into the recesses of our mantle, in a rather impressive engineering feat for Bumfuck, TX.

Hopefully Biden is out of office by then, and whatever retarded tax "reforms" he may ram-jam through get repealed.

Argument is about $1mil/yr in cap gainz. Not $1mil in total net worth. As stated above only 0.3% of income taxes have AGI above $1mil so yes objectively it is a lot

Bob's argument "why da fuck should i pay taxes if i want to build a lava moat, the government will just do something stupid with that money" is the most valid one! Looks like they can make it retroactive, but it's uncommon and very unpopular.
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April 23, 2021, 08:44:49 PM
Merited by OutOfMemory (1)

@WinsorSonny
6 months of green candles, we’ve never had 7 in the history of bitcoin. You may not like it now but this is needed and you will be thankful for it in the near future. Like the old saying goes April showers bring forth May flowers 🚀🌔 $BTC

https://twitter.com/winsorsonny/status/1385693853081116674?s=21
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April 23, 2021, 09:03:36 PM

"Crypto Exchange Goes Dark: Near 400,000 Users Fear Possible $2B Fraud

Nearly 400,000 users of a Turkish cryptocurrency exchange, Thodex, have been left unable to access their accounts or withdraw money from the platform after it abruptly ceased operations Wednesday, Bloomberg reports."

https://www.businessinsider.co.za/thodex-massive-crypto-losses-ceo-missing-istanbul-crypto-exchange-2021-4
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April 23, 2021, 09:13:29 PM

Anybody use poloniex?  I can log in, but it won't navigate to any pages.  Just wondered if there is an issue I was unaware of.  Volume meltdown?
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April 23, 2021, 09:16:25 PM

The pomp explains a little bit on this dumpfor ants.
I might not fully agree on this analysis, but I think it is well written.
Worth a read.

On-Chain Metrics Explain The Bitcoin Price Dip
Quote

Hope all is well, and happy Friday! At the time of writing, Bitcoin’s price sits at $52,200 after a choppy week, price is currently down 18.63% in the last 7 days. This letter will recap the events of last weekend’s rapid price drop, try to estimate where we are in the current price correction, and some other interesting on-chain metrics. Let’s dive into some of the latest developments seen on-chain.


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April 23, 2021, 09:16:25 PM

In US your income is high, but costs are very high as well, hence $1 mil is a surprisingly smaller amount of money that you might imagine otherwise.
In addition, the tax is proposed to be coming now and improvements later, but so far I personally haven't seen ANY improvements in government/state services here in the last, say, 30 years, give or take. They will spend the money as they will see fit.

It's still a good bit of money. Granted it's easy to have one's lifestyle "adjust" to where a million a year is "pin money" but at that point you have other issues to deal with.

In terms of Govt spending, well we did get one hell of a 20+ year fake "war" for our $$$ and I am impressed so far with my COVID shots....
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April 23, 2021, 09:18:45 PM
Merited by BobLawblaw (1)

"Crypto Exchange Goes Dark: Near 400,000 Users Fear Possible $2B Fraud

Nearly 400,000 users of a Turkish cryptocurrency exchange, Thodex, have been left unable to access their accounts or withdraw money from the platform after it abruptly ceased operations Wednesday, Bloomberg reports."

https://www.businessinsider.co.za/thodex-massive-crypto-losses-ceo-missing-istanbul-crypto-exchange-2021-4

Most probably yet another exit scam (heard Cryptopia turned out to be an exit scam as well), but it's also possible the owner is in a Turkish prison right now having his testicles clapped by a monkey with cymbals.

Three things my grandfather told me:
1) Never buy meat from a truck
2) A Turkish prison is not a good place to be
3) HODL
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April 23, 2021, 09:28:33 PM

"Crypto Exchange Goes Dark: Near 400,000 Users Fear Possible $2B Fraud

Nearly 400,000 users of a Turkish cryptocurrency exchange, Thodex, have been left unable to access their accounts or withdraw money from the platform after it abruptly ceased operations Wednesday, Bloomberg reports."

https://www.businessinsider.co.za/thodex-massive-crypto-losses-ceo-missing-istanbul-crypto-exchange-2021-4

Most probably yet another exit scam (heard Cryptopia turned out to be an exit scam as well), but it's also possible the owner is in a Turkish prison right now having his testicles clapped by a monkey with cymbals.

Three things my grandfather told me:
1) Never buy meat from a truck
2) A Turkish prison is not a good place to be
3) HODL

 Come on!  Your grandfather never said anything about meat trucks!  Tongue
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April 23, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Last edit: April 23, 2021, 09:42:25 PM by Biodom
Merited by rolling (1)

In US your income is high, but costs are very high as well, hence $1 mil is a surprisingly smaller amount of money that you might imagine otherwise.
In addition, the tax is proposed to be coming now and improvements later, but so far I personally haven't seen ANY improvements in government/state services here in the last, say, 30 years, give or take. They will spend the money as they will see fit.

It's still a good bit of money. Granted it's easy to have one's lifestyle "adjust" to where a million a year is "pin money" but at that point you have other issues to deal with.

In terms of Govt spending, well we did get one hell of a 20+ year fake "war" for our $$$ and I am impressed so far with my COVID shots....

Yea, but you cannot buy a ranch (big enough) for it and you also cannot convert it to, say, VTI (total market) and live on dividends (true passive income, not some rigamarole).
IMHO, 20% (or 23.8% for more than 500K) tax was about optimal (not too little and not too much).
43.4-56% is at or approaching confiscation levels, no matter what someone can say about social causes.
In order to make a mental determination, make a thought experiment: would it be fair if you took $50K in gains and they were ALSO taxed at 43-56% after you held for multiple years (not short-term trading profit)?

It's a simple Kantian ethics (Golden rule):  "Act as you would have others act towards you."
Or hinduism: "Do not to others what ye do not wish done to yourself..."

A government that wants to tax CG at 43-56% would be simply effectively deprived of that tax revenue (no sell, hence no tax).
You cannot tax cap gains if there were no such gains.
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April 23, 2021, 09:37:47 PM

Follow-up question on the capital gains tax: if stock markets drop because people are locking in current profits by selling stock, does that mean they have to pay taxes now? Which would mean the US government potentially gained billions of tax just because Biden made an announcement?

I'm still flabbergasted by the idea that Americans can choose when they want to pay their taxes.

In the UK, we pay 20% on CGT but that’s only on profits. We don’t have an annual wealth tax so it’s only payable when we decide to sell. There was a review on spending/finances a couple of months back but luckily CGT was left alone.

Same in Sweden, but we pay 30% CGT.
But you can dodge most of the tax by opening an investment savings account and buy bitcoin securities, however not your keys, not your bitcoin.

When the next bull cycle starts I will look in to putting half in securities and half in real bitcoins.
That way I might just be able to let my bitcoins just sit there and use the securities/ETF:s for buying and selling the four year cycles .
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April 23, 2021, 09:54:31 PM

Three things my grandfather told me:

2) A Turkish prison is not a good place to be


Compulsory reference to Midnight Express:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbaQiK_NGw
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April 23, 2021, 09:56:34 PM
Merited by Richy_T (1)

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.



Spot on, I would so have merited this if I had any.
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April 23, 2021, 10:14:44 PM

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.



That is not correct.

Remove all bridges and roads in all countries. Let me know which is harder on economy  no roads no bridges
no canals. Or taxes that build roads bridges and canals such as the panama and the suez.

The correct statement is many taxes are ill conceived and they can hurt the economy.




The bridge/underwater car and train tunnel between Malmö and Copenhagen cost absolutely nothing for the taxpayers, it's all funded by loans that's paid of by a bridge toll, and that even includes a brand new artificial island.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96resundsf%C3%B6rbindelsen#Finansiering_och_%C3%A4garskap

No English text unfortunately, there's a German site though for the speakers of said language.

But a nice picture I provide can.



And a train drivers view, starting with arriving at Malmö C and going underground Malmö with stop at two stations and then surfacing before entering the bridge and going on to Denmark.
I sometimes like to watch train driver view films just as a relaxation and this is one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE_BlE4DxcA
You don't need taxes to build infrastructure.
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April 23, 2021, 10:28:18 PM

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April 23, 2021, 10:45:19 PM

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.
[...]


Spot on, I would so have merited this if I had any.

I'll lend you one.
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April 23, 2021, 10:47:51 PM

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.



That is not correct.

Remove all bridges and roads in all countries. Let me know which is harder on economy  no roads no bridges
no canals. Or taxes that build roads bridges and canals such as the panama and the suez.

The correct statement is many taxes are ill conceived and they can hurt the economy.




The bridge/underwater car and train tunnel between Malmö and Copenhagen cost absolutely nothing for the taxpayers, it's all funded by loans that's paid of by a bridge toll, and that even includes a brand new artificial island.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96resundsf%C3%B6rbindelsen#Finansiering_och_%C3%A4garskap

No English text unfortunately, there's a German site though for the speakers of said language.

But a nice picture I provide can.



And a train drivers view, starting with arriving at Malmö C and going underground Malmö with stop at two stations and then surfacing before entering the bridge and going on to Denmark.
I sometimes like to watch train driver view films just as a relaxation and this is one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE_BlE4DxcA
You don't need taxes to build infrastructure.

Really impressive looking bit of infrastructure.

Ironically my favourite motorway in the UK is the M6 expressway toll that bypasses Birmingham. It is always quiet, not having to negotiate heavy goods and there is still a hard shoulder lane. The latter I find trully astonishing is being removed from almost every other motorway in the UK under the name of "smart" motorway. It seems incredibly dangerous and completely stupid, just to save a buck instead of building more proper lanes and keeping the safety lane in place for emergencies and emergency vehicles.

Perhaps more toll roads and less road tax would actually be a better solution.

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April 23, 2021, 10:49:39 PM

Anyone advocating for more taxes has been watching too much MSNBC. It's not about feeling sympathy for people who have billions, it's about people thinking the government is their daddy.

Do you think billionaires are swimming around in a pool of gold coins or pallets of $100s? Nearly all of the wealth that people are complaining about is on paper. Jeff Bezos owns a bunch of Amazon shares. If you raise the capital gains tax, he'll just never sell those shares. If the capital gains tax was lowered however, he might sell those shares and invest that money in some other endeavor which could create millions of new jobs. I'm betting the guy who created Amazon is a lot smarter than anyone in the government.

Nearly all the wealth in the world is invested in companies and profits are reinvested in other companies to create more and more jobs. Taxes stifle growth. All taxes are a deterrent to economic activity.

The Government is not your baby daddy and the more money the government takes, the less economic activity, jobs etc.



That is not correct.

Remove all bridges and roads in all countries. Let me know which is harder on economy  no roads no bridges
no canals. Or taxes that build roads bridges and canals such as the panama and the suez.

The correct statement is many taxes are ill conceived and they can hurt the economy.




The bridge/underwater car and train tunnel between Malmö and Copenhagen cost absolutely nothing for the taxpayers, it's all funded by loans that's paid of by a bridge toll, and that even includes a brand new artificial island.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96resundsf%C3%B6rbindelsen#Finansiering_och_%C3%A4garskap

No English text unfortunately, there's a German site though for the speakers of said language.

But a nice picture I provide can.



And a train drivers view, starting with arriving at Malmö C and going underground Malmö with stop at two stations and then surfacing before entering the bridge and going on to Denmark.
I sometimes like to watch train driver view films just as a relaxation and this is one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE_BlE4DxcA
You don't need taxes to build infrastructure.


Ahh the 108€ ($130) round trip toll bridge. Minimum wage worker in USA ($7.25/hr) would have to work over 2 days full time (17.9hrs) just for the privilege to drive across it. But if they buy online they can save 8€!
https://www.oresundsbron.com/en/prices
Should get one going to my house so those poor plebs don't come visiting! 'murika!
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April 23, 2021, 10:51:11 PM

https://www.coindesk.com/south-koreas-top-financial-regulator-suggests-all-crypto-exchanges-could-be-shut-down?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

What about this ....  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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