Bitcoin Forum
May 08, 2024, 05:37:59 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Poll
Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 62

Pages: « 1 ... 32316 32317 32318 32319 32320 32321 32322 32323 32324 32325 32326 32327 32328 32329 32330 32331 32332 32333 32334 32335 32336 32337 32338 32339 32340 32341 32342 32343 32344 32345 32346 32347 32348 32349 32350 32351 32352 32353 32354 32355 32356 32357 32358 32359 32360 32361 32362 32363 32364 32365 [32366] 32367 32368 32369 32370 32371 32372 32373 32374 32375 32376 32377 32378 32379 32380 32381 32382 32383 32384 32385 32386 32387 32388 32389 32390 32391 32392 32393 32394 32395 32396 32397 32398 32399 32400 32401 32402 32403 32404 32405 32406 32407 32408 32409 32410 32411 32412 32413 32414 32415 32416 ... 33334 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26378022 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4116
Merit: 7862


'The right to privacy matters'


View Profile WWW
July 31, 2023, 05:35:10 PM

Im gonna attempt to explain mining difficulty with a metaphor


You and a lot of other people are standing at a bar, the queue is exactly one person deep. The bar tender goes around the queue take drinks orders and fulfilling them let’s say clockwise. When you get your drink you stay in the queue and drink it. Difficulty represents the time you have to wait to order your drinks. If a new person joins the queue you will have to wait longer and ultimately drink less in an evening. If a person leaves the queue you will wait less time and be able to drink more in the evening. This scales up(adding to the queue) and down(dropping from the queue). There will also be the few alcoholics who will never leave the queue, and they want more booze than they can imagine wanting.

Is my understanding correct?

I think the joke(miners death spiral) is that those alcoholics will always be there, drinking from the firehouse or waiting patiently for the bartender to serve them.



No not quite correct.

The wait adjustment for drinks in your example is close to instant.  In mining btc it is as long as 17 days.
1715189879
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715189879

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715189879
Reply with quote  #2

1715189879
Report to moderator
1715189879
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715189879

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715189879
Reply with quote  #2

1715189879
Report to moderator
Even in the event that an attacker gains more than 50% of the network's computational power, only transactions sent by the attacker could be reversed or double-spent. The network would not be destroyed.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1715189879
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715189879

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715189879
Reply with quote  #2

1715189879
Report to moderator
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 06:03:30 PM


Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
Gachapin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 1879


bitcoin retard


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 06:59:43 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), JayJuanGee (1), Paashaas (1)

SEC Asked Coinbase to Halt Trading of All Cryptos, Except Bitcoin.
....

this one is from Reuters:

SEC asked Coinbase to trade only in bitcoin before suing crypto exchange
https://www.reuters.com/technology/sec-asked-coinbase-stop-trading-cryptocurrencies-other-than-bitcoin-prior-suing-2023-07-31/

with this obvious stand of the SEC on crypto security tokens, Bitcoin should double against these scams within an eye blink...  if the market was rational ... but well...

Don't be like that....if bitcoin is strong it does not matter if there are other 'tokens'.
Besides, there are other tokens that are similar to bitcoin in the way they are issued with some of them mentioned here from time to time.
Think about it: if they "cancel" everything else, bitcoin would certainly be next in US, probably for decades...just like trading in gold was.

afaik nobody wants to cancel anything there.  But if you issue or sell a security, you have to follow the law in this day and age.
And the Howey Test is clear & easy to understand. If you choose to ignore it, accept the consequences.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the wild west times of this market, and made money.  But I'm not too sad that these days come to an end, and that scammers cannot fleece newbs left and right by selling lies and shit anymore.

Sure there are coins that are obviously no securities. But I don't expect much from a federal agency. And I think it takes time for them to work through thousands of coins in order to decide what they are.  Luckily everyone know Bitcoin quite well nowadays.

 

philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4116
Merit: 7862


'The right to privacy matters'


View Profile WWW
July 31, 2023, 07:02:51 PM

Im gonna attempt to explain mining difficulty with a metaphor


You and a lot of other people are standing at a bar, the queue is exactly one person deep. The bar tender goes around the queue take drinks orders and fulfilling them let’s say clockwise. When you get your drink you stay in the queue and drink it. Difficulty represents the time you have to wait to order your drinks. If a new person joins the queue you will have to wait longer and ultimately drink less in an evening. If a person leaves the queue you will wait less time and be able to drink more in the evening. This scales up(adding to the queue) and down(dropping from the queue). There will also be the few alcoholics who will never leave the queue, and they want more booze than they can imagine wanting.

Is my understanding correct?

I think the joke(miners death spiral) is that those alcoholics will always be there, drinking from the firehouse or waiting patiently for the bartender to serve them.



Using you bewildering analogy...the question is: will there be enough "alcoholics" to secure the chain properly?
Phil posited that in 80 years there would not be.
Personally, I don't know as we NEVER had more than a few weeks difficulty decline and btw, those periods were always the local bottom (so far), like Oct-Dec 2018 (cycle low), then China ban (May-July 2021) and summer bottom.


Yeah I think we range 10 to 17 or 18 days a jump.
Most are between 12 and 16.

His example is kind of poor.

As being an alcoholic drinker is not being a profitable miner.

I make profits consistently since 2018 every month I made some coin above expenses.

Calling miners alcoholics is saying miners lose consistently. The reality is we don't.
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 07:04:52 PM


Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4116
Merit: 7862


'The right to privacy matters'


View Profile WWW
July 31, 2023, 07:10:15 PM


<snip>


Using you bewildering analogy...the question is: will there be enough "alcoholics" to secure the chain properly?
Phil posited that in 80 years there would not be.
Personally, I don't know as we NEVER had more than a few weeks difficulty decline and btw, those periods were always the local bottom (so far), like Oct-Dec 2018 (cycle low), then China ban (May-July 2021) and summer bottom.
[/quote]


The caveat is that the current fee structure won't work in 2080 or even 2056 or even 2052.

There will be changes or BTC will not fair well. As LTC/DOGE is structured to last better than BTC.

Obviously I am not the only one that sees these issues. I only wish I could stick around to see how it shakes out.

Greyhats
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 171
Merit: 99


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 07:53:40 PM
Merited by d_eddie (1)

Im gonna attempt to explain mining difficulty with a metaphor


You and a lot of other people are standing at a bar, the queue is exactly one person deep. The bar tender goes around the queue take drinks orders and fulfilling them let’s say clockwise. When you get your drink you stay in the queue and drink it. Difficulty represents the time you have to wait to order your drinks. If a new person joins the queue you will have to wait longer and ultimately drink less in an evening. If a person leaves the queue you will wait less time and be able to drink more in the evening. This scales up(adding to the queue) and down(dropping from the queue). There will also be the few alcoholics who will never leave the queue, and they want more booze than they can imagine wanting.

Is my understanding correct?

I think the joke(miners death spiral) is that those alcoholics will always be there, drinking from the firehouse or waiting patiently for the bartender to serve them.



Using you  bewildering analogy...the question is: will there be enough "alcoholics" to secure the chain properly?
Phil posited that in 80 years there would not be.
Personally, I don't know as we NEVER had more than a few weeks difficulty decline and btw, those periods were always the local bottom (so far), like Oct-Dec 2018 (cycle low), then China ban (May-July 2021) and summer bottom.


Yeah I think we range 10 to 17 or 18 days a jump.
Most are between 12 and 16.

His example is kind of poor.

As being an alcoholic drinker is not being a profitable miner.

I make profits consistently since 2018 every month I made some coin above expenses.

Calling miners alcoholics is saying miners lose consistently. The reality is we don't.

Hold your horses there cowboy Grin  I think am getting closer to an understanding.

In my analogy the alcoholics left at the bar are miners who don’t leave,  the core, like when massive amounts of hash rate turned off there so far seems to be a core of miners who keep mining or a % of hash rate. If core stay then block reward share increases  for them because the difficulty goes down(less miners competing ) I can’t comment if they are profitable or not but would assume they are or they would be part of the group who turned their gear off. The losers are people who have left then though right? They stopped receiving their share of reward.

In the analogy the bar tender is the blocks, the evening is the epoch. The drinkers are the miners. The drinks are the reward.

Also apologies if this a trigger to any recovering alcoholics it’s just where my mind went when thinking about mining difficulty.

Edit: spelling

ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 08:01:20 PM


Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
BitcoinPak
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 101
Merit: 26

Chainjoes.com


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 08:07:18 PM

Hi, This 2022-2025 Bitcoin cycle is behaving so much like the 2014-2017 Bitcoin cycle.  Prepare yourselves.
The next time the bitcoin spiral clock is at 7:30, will be at block count 971,250. Source


eXPHorizon
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 132


Precision Beats Power and Timing Beats Speed.


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 09:02:15 PM

ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 09:03:30 PM


Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 10:01:19 PM


Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
BitcoinBunny
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456
Merit: 2494



View Profile
July 31, 2023, 10:22:34 PM
Merited by HI-TEC99 (2), xhomerx10 (1)

Rest in peace Paul Reubens (Pee-wee Herman).
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 11:04:52 PM


Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
JayJuanGee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3710
Merit: 10225


Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 11:18:55 PM

... seemingly dumb question.
... I resemble that remark.
.... "artistic interpretation."
dfuk is that?

Well anyway, here's my Sunday haiku....

    

(translation of above "invisible" haiku)
space space space space space
space space space space space space space
space space space space space*

*bear in mind for this particular artistic interpretation, space return carriage= one syllable


Here's my first responsive haiku... responding to your invisible one:







Here is my second responsive haiku, responding to your conflation of the ideas of space and return carriage:















Please note that each of my responsive haikus are artistically expressed in an invisible kind of a way.  Also note:  I have more spaces (return carriages) in the second responsive haiku as contrasted with the first one.  For reasons.
Torque
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3556
Merit: 5041



View Profile
July 31, 2023, 11:48:35 PM
Merited by El duderino_ (6), Hueristic (1), JayJuanGee (1), AlcoHoDL (1), Gachapin (1)

Sure there are coins that are obviously not securities.

Just a clarification, because I think these kind of vague notions are exactly the problem with the "crypto" scam industry.

On CMC there are currently 1.8M+ "cryptocurrencies" listed, and out of all of those I can count the number that are NOT securities on half a hand. Like maybe with 3 or 4 fingers max. Maybe 6 if I squint sideways.

So half a dozen out of 1.8 Million and counting. It's such a disparity that it's not even worth debating.

So...yeah. That.
JayJuanGee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3710
Merit: 10225


Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"


View Profile
July 31, 2023, 11:55:46 PM
Last edit: August 01, 2023, 12:16:45 AM by JayJuanGee

[edited out]
sorry you got that wrong
it is

blank blank blank blank blank
blank blank blank blank blank blank blank
blank blank blank blank blank

as we all know JJG makes up 🆙 for shooting blanks with lots of volume.
 😄
Just kidding JJG



eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee








eeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!



eeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!


eeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

 Tongue Tongue Tongue


[edited out
I am glad

you are

finally

starting

to become

a degenerate.   Grin  Cheesy  Cheesy


Hahahahahaha


We can relate.... even though 4 SURE you have years and years and years of a headstart on me.  Wink
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
August 01, 2023, 12:03:30 AM


Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
JayJuanGee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3710
Merit: 10225


Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"


View Profile
August 01, 2023, 12:38:30 AM
Last edit: August 01, 2023, 03:29:33 AM by JayJuanGee
Merited by Obari (1), Learn Bitcoin (1)

I was not expecting the price of Bitcoin to stay at this price when the halving is approaching very soon. I do not know if we will see major movement by next year but we usually see a increase just before a halving. I would expect to see it already. Does any one have ideas why we are struggling when we have not in previous years?

Every year (or cycle or whatever) comes out differently, and even if they might kind of look a like, we need to be careful in terms of putting too many expectations regarding how things might play out in terms of their specifics.

If you think about it, your description of where we are at (versus where we have been) is not even correct.

Do you recall that we spent a pretty solid 2 months that were mostly in the lower $16ks?

It seems that our current position shows a bounce from that point, no?

It's not enough of a bounce for you?

Our current spot is pretty damned well in the range of 50% to 80% up from that 2 month low.. and we have been here largely since early to mid March.. so that is getting close to 5 months.

Hey, it is not even guaranteed that we will go up from here, but it still seems to be a great place to be stacking sats.

Remember in 2015 we had spent about 8 months in the mid $200s and then we spent another in early 2016 for 6-7 months mostly in the lower $400s.. and yeah people were pretty depressed  each time that these stagnant periods happen.. we can go through each of the cycles and see those kind of things, and yeah the time periods do vary, but still they seem long (and uncertain) while we are going through them, and surely if you are thinking about the 3.5x boost that we got between April and June 2019, that was absolutely amazing, and surely it could happen again, but you cannot count on those kinds of wonderful and spectacular events that really fuck up a lot of bears. Sure we want to see those events, but you are unrealistic if you are putting high odds of those kinds of amazing things to happen.

Don't get me wrong, there are pretty good chances that at some point bears are going to get reckt as fuck, but who knows when it is going to happen or if it is going to happen, but I would not write off such a bear fucking.. even if we cannot really have any confidence in what price range or how it might be triggered and/or when.  We know the holding the ball under the water meme.. and yeah, the ball could stay held under the water much longer than any rational person can stay solvent.. including another couple of years (doesn't seem likely, but it could end up playing out that way).  Strong hands gotta be prepared for anything .

I recall that you had said that you had bought some more BTC, and if you have been buying in the last year-ish, you should be in really good shape right now in terms of the supplementation of your earlier BTC purchases (I cannot remember if you did them in 2021 or was it early 2022.. maybe it was during the mid-year 2021 dip), and not even needing a doubling or a tripling of the BTC price in order to be in pretty solid place in terms of your own current BTC holdings.. which I recall had been in the mid $30ks.. but if you had been aggressively buying BTC in the last year (even $100 per week), then you may well could have brought your average purchase price down a few thousand, perhaps?  

I am not exactly trying to get into your details, even though sometimes it does help to work with some numerical frameworks, even though almost no matter what any of us do, there can be ways to frame the situation in ways to suggest "I could have done better." blah blah blah..

And, we can ONLY do what we can do.. and we can ONLY act now, if there might be something that we might want to do now in terms of buying or planning buys or even other less recommendable strategies, as you know that I don't really recommend anything except buying especially if your holdings might either be in the negative or barely into profits, if they were to happen to be in profits.

What you were saying is relevant to everyone.  You don't have to be a miner because if mining death spiral were to happen, we would all be screwed.


One thing to make many of us MOAR happier, is that we have already seen how incentives play out.


It's called the difficulty adjustment.


Have you heard of it?
Even though I am a novice, yeah I heard that. But, I don't know how it works. I am not in a rush to learn these things overnight. But, I won't mind if you take your time with a rusty pipe.

but since he laughed at my post, I get the sense that he understands difficulty adjustment as it relates to the mining death spiral.. even though sure he might agree with you on some of the levels of what you are saying...

Why pick on phil?  This is not about phil.

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Well, I admit that arguing with JJG is not an easy job being somewhat newbie in WO. So, trying to pick Phil on my side for some kind of support  Cheesy Cheesy I hope you don't mind. I believe he has greater knowledge about difficulty adjustment or whatever you say about mining things which I don't have. So, I won't be able to answer you back if you start writing these things. Now it's obvious why I pick Phil.  Cheesy Cheesy

Maybe it is not a bad tactic?  

We all have to start somewhere, and I am not sure where to point you.  

There are a lot of basic things about bitcoin and a variety of resources, and there are even threads that are aimed at some of those basic ideas that have links contained therein too.

The difficulty adjustment is basic, but it is surely one of the most amazing things about bitcoin, too.. ... and I don't even have enough of an ability to explain it, even though there are a lot of people who do great jobs explaining those kinds of things.

Anyhow, maybe you can just save your post, and then you go and look up some issues in relation to the difficulty adjustment, and then respond to your own pot or maybe provide us with your information that links to the other sources?  

I am sure guys here would not shirk away from commenting on your comments that are attempting to bring up substantive ideas about mining, especially if they are grappling with actual mining dynamics rather than your just making shit up in regards to the mining death spiral that does not work out in reality as much when you actually attempt to account for the actual bitcoin reality that contains a difficulty adjustments about every two weeks (every 2016 blocks).

You can even watch it here:

Latest Block:   801132  (3 minutes ago)
Current Pace:   98.9365%  (781 / 789.40 expected, 8.4 behind)
Previous Difficulty:   53911173001054.59                            
Current Difficulty:   52328312063443.84                            
Next Difficulty:   between 51791367219011 and 51991573996741
Next Difficulty Change:   between -1.0261% and -0.6435%
Previous Retarget:   last Wednesday at 8:39 AM  (-2.9361%)
Next Retarget (earliest):   August 9, 2023 at 10:54 AM  (in 8d 14h 41m 25s)
Next Retarget (latest):   August 9, 2023 at 12:16 PM  (in 8d 16h 2m 45s)
Projected Epoch Length:   between 14d 2h 15m 22s and 14d 3h 36m 42s

https://www.bitrawr.com/difficulty-estimator


and here:

https://btc.com/stats/diff?_ga=2.166892222.1079250679.1586286038-48233127.1586286038

Of course, there are other places that you can watch various aspects of the dynamics of the difficulty adjustments, try to understand it MOAR better and to see what bitcoin-informed people are saying about such an eighth wonder of the world.

BTC price ‘fireworks’ after monthly close? 5 things to know in Bitcoin this week.


Source.

I would have rather that you would have summarized something about the article.. including potentially highlighting the 5 things.. but I sent an smerit anyhow.. even though you probably didn't deserve it..


hahahahahhahaha

 Tongue
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
August 01, 2023, 01:04:52 AM


Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
Pages: « 1 ... 32316 32317 32318 32319 32320 32321 32322 32323 32324 32325 32326 32327 32328 32329 32330 32331 32332 32333 32334 32335 32336 32337 32338 32339 32340 32341 32342 32343 32344 32345 32346 32347 32348 32349 32350 32351 32352 32353 32354 32355 32356 32357 32358 32359 32360 32361 32362 32363 32364 32365 [32366] 32367 32368 32369 32370 32371 32372 32373 32374 32375 32376 32377 32378 32379 32380 32381 32382 32383 32384 32385 32386 32387 32388 32389 32390 32391 32392 32393 32394 32395 32396 32397 32398 32399 32400 32401 32402 32403 32404 32405 32406 32407 32408 32409 32410 32411 32412 32413 32414 32415 32416 ... 33334 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!