Bitcoin Forum
September 05, 2025, 10:56:04 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 29.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Poll
Question: How far will this leg take us?
$110K - 9 (8.3%)
$120K - 19 (17.6%)
$130K - 17 (15.7%)
$140K - 9 (8.3%)
$150K - 19 (17.6%)
$160K - 2 (1.9%)
$170K+ - 33 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 108

Pages: « 1 ... 11394 11395 11396 11397 11398 11399 11400 11401 11402 11403 11404 11405 11406 11407 11408 11409 11410 11411 11412 11413 11414 11415 11416 11417 11418 11419 11420 11421 11422 11423 11424 11425 11426 11427 11428 11429 11430 11431 11432 11433 11434 11435 11436 11437 11438 11439 11440 11441 11442 11443 [11444] 11445 11446 11447 11448 11449 11450 11451 11452 11453 11454 11455 11456 11457 11458 11459 11460 11461 11462 11463 11464 11465 11466 11467 11468 11469 11470 11471 11472 11473 11474 11475 11476 11477 11478 11479 11480 11481 11482 11483 11484 11485 11486 11487 11488 11489 11490 11491 11492 11493 11494 ... 34889 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26835958 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 1 users with 9 merit deleted.)
YourMother
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1281
Merit: 1046



View Profile WWW
March 02, 2015, 02:47:11 PM


Huh, another bitcoin scam business. Who would've thought...
samsonn25
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 882
Merit: 1003



View Profile
March 02, 2015, 02:48:26 PM

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/bitbetus/internet/bitbetus-Is-something-you-should-really-AVOID-1155798
camolist
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 896
Merit: 1000


View Profile WWW
March 02, 2015, 02:48:32 PM


"Everything about Bitbet.us has so far been a drag. Creating an account takes forever and they take their sweet time approving your ID information. "

i stopped reading there.

there are no accounts and there is no id information.

still havnt read the faq i can tell.
600watt
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2338
Merit: 2106



View Profile
March 02, 2015, 02:56:14 PM

Wait for the little crash before buying
Don't wait, you'll be late.

I waited and still I'm not late. Wink

like your name. i once invented a brand name which looks similar to yours....    Wink
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2660
Merit: 2364


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
March 02, 2015, 02:59:24 PM

Coin
Explanation
Cassandra_PR
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 54
Merit: 0


View Profile
March 02, 2015, 03:04:17 PM

Check ignition and may God's love be with you...

 http://www.woefultourist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/IMGP0754.jpg
JorgeStolfi
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 1003



View Profile
March 02, 2015, 03:34:17 PM

bitcoin it is worth its weight in gold.
You're being facetious of course

Well, yes and no.  An immaterial currency can be issued at will; it is the ultimate "fiat money".

(Before you scream "21 million": that bitcoin limit is "guaranteed" only by  fuzzy arguments about a complicated economic game, not "by math", and could be changed if the right players agreed to it.  Moreover, any kid can duplicate the amount of bitcoins in existence by creating a hard fork of the blockchain and starting to mine it on his laptotp.  Anyone who has bitcoins will gain an equal amount of those "series B" bitcoins, accessible through the same private keys, and could trade them independently of his old bitcoins by duplicating his wallet and downloading the kids's client software. Whether those "series B" bitcoins will get a significant market value is a market(ing) question, not a technical one.  And, of course, there are the altcoins.)

Quote
We can in principle associate some minimum weight to abstract units that are the result of computation, right?

Yes, with current technology there is in theory a minimum amount of useful energy that needs to be disspated (turned into waste heat) in order to perorm any logical operation.  That energy can be expressed as mass by Einstein's equation m  = E/c^2.   For example, a 10 watt lamp in one second burns 10 joules, which is equivalent to (10 kg m^2/s^2)/(300'000'000 m/s)^2 = 0.00000000000000011 kg, or 0.1 picogram of matter, if I didn't miss some zeros.  (Quantum computing may get around this limit somehow, but it is not known whether it will ever be usable for problems like this.)

The theoretical minimum energy cost of computations is quite small, much less than the cost that can be achieved with current technology.  But even if we use the actual cost, the mass equivalent of the cost of creating 1 bitcoin will be fairly small. Anyone knows how many joules are tipically consumed today to create 1 valid block (25 BTC)?  

However, the cost of creating something in the first place is only an upper bound to its "intrinsic value".  There are examples of huge civil engineering works that cost billions to build, were never used, and cost millions to demolish -- that is, had negative value.  (The dams built by Saddam Hussein to drain the marshes in Southern Iraq may be one example.  The Iridium communications infrastructure may be another.)  The computing the nonces of orphaned blocks costs as much as computing  those of surviving blocks, but those nonces are worthless (except perhaps to cryptographers, who may have a use for them).

Another upper bound for the "intrinsic value" of something could be the cost of duplicating it.  The cost of duplicating a bar of gold is the same as creating the first one.  For a banknote, printing an extra copy is much cheaper than printing the first one because all the plates and equipment are reused.  For information, the cost of duplication (theoretical and in practice) is extremely small.  

It can be argued that duplicating information in the bitcoin system does not produce extra bitcoins.  But that is not a physical constraint, it is a property of the whole bitcoin system -- not just the protocols and the algorithms, but also of the internet, and, mainly, how people use and react to those things.  So, the allegedly valuable properties of the bitcoin system -- single spending, authentication, limited supply, irreversibility, global reach, etc. -- do not define the "intrinsic value" of a bitcoin; they contribute only to its market value.

Moreover, no one really knows how hard it is to compute a valid block.  The trial-and-error method used by miners is just the most efficient method that we know; but there is no proof or other evidence that there is no better way.  There may well exist an agorithm that finds the right nonce for a block header in a few microseconds.  Or, worse, finds a block that has the same hash of another block but a different contents, including a specific transaction that is not in the first block.  Or finds the private key for any given address.  So, the theoretical "mass cost" of computing a valid block may be orders of magnitude lower than the trial-and-error cost.
Globb0
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2716
Merit: 2053


Free spirit


View Profile
March 02, 2015, 03:52:19 PM

Wait for the little crash before buying
Don't wait, you'll be late.

I waited and still I'm not late. Wink

like your name. i once invented a brand name which looks similar to yours....    Wink

Woop!
itod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1988
Merit: 1077


Honey badger just does not care


View Profile
March 02, 2015, 03:57:35 PM

Moreover, no one really knows how hard it is to compute a valid block.  The trial-and-error method used by miners is just the most efficient method that we know; but there is no proof or other evidence that there is no better way.

Would you consider the fact that nobody has ever found a collision of sha256 function an evidence? There's no mathematical proof, but there's more then enough evidence that any other method is not even on the horizon. It's not only a Bitcoin issue, if any of modern hash algorithms would be compromised the whole cryptography would be hammered.
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2660
Merit: 2364


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
March 02, 2015, 03:59:24 PM

Coin
Explanation
Tzupy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2198
Merit: 1094



View Profile
March 02, 2015, 04:01:18 PM

...
Anyone knows how many joules are tipically consumed today to create 1 valid block (25 BTC)?  
...

Assuming current market price is very close to electrical energy spent on mining, and price for that is a low 10 cents / kwh, I'm getting a guesstimate of ~227 GJ.
KryptoFoo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


View Profile
March 02, 2015, 04:06:50 PM

for carps sake somebody just flash a wall at finex and get this over with.
testerman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 840
Merit: 1000


View Profile
March 02, 2015, 04:07:33 PM

263$ and increasing, to the moon
KryptoFoo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


View Profile
March 02, 2015, 04:09:33 PM

263$ and increasing, to the moon

first test, 267.

Edit: screw the CNY exchanges, finex lead us higher
BlackSpidy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 513
Merit: 511



View Profile
March 02, 2015, 04:20:27 PM


(Before you scream "21 million": that bitcoin limit is "guaranteed" only by  fuzzy arguments about a complicated economic game, not "by math", and could be changed if the right players agreed to it.  Moreover, any kid can duplicate the amount of bitcoins in existence by creating a hard fork of the blockchain and starting to mine it on his laptotp.  Anyone who has bitcoins will gain an equal amount of those "series B" bitcoins, accessible through the same private keys, and could trade them independently of his old bitcoins by duplicating his wallet and downloading the kids's client software. Whether those "series B" bitcoins will get a significant market value is a market(ing) question, not a technical one.  And, of course, there are the altcoins.)


You're describing a double spend attack, right? Ether that, or something completely idiotic.
Imma go ahead and call bullshit. There's no way you can pre-mine a blockchain, you're racing against the entire network to solve the hash. The hash of the previous block is included into the hashing process of the next. You'd have to start out solving the latest block on the chain, and the consecutively solve... how many blocks do propose, exactly? Not only that, but pre-mine ahead of the network. The most consecutive blocks mined are six, by the largest pool in the entire network. This isnt a "any kid can do it at home with his laptop" scenario.
Then, just copy over the wallet to some other computer and spend the coins twice... What?
You obviously have not idea what you're talking about.

I'll bet you all my coins (0.107) that you (you consider yourself superior to "any kid with a laptop", right) definitely CANNOT duplicate any bitcoin through the method you described.
empowering
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092
Merit: 1442



View Profile
March 02, 2015, 04:21:33 PM

Moreover, no one really knows how hard it is to compute a valid block.  The trial-and-error method used by miners is just the most efficient method that we know; but there is no proof or other evidence that there is no better way.

Would you consider the fact that nobody has ever found a collision of sha256 function an evidence? There's no mathematical proof, but there's more then enough evidence that any other method is not even on the horizon. It's not only a Bitcoin issue, if any of modern hash algorithms would be compromised the whole cryptography would be hammered.

meh... why let a little something like that get in the way?   Grin
Sitarow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047



View Profile
March 02, 2015, 04:27:56 PM



Trolfi
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 72
Merit: 10


View Profile
March 02, 2015, 04:32:05 PM

Moreover, no one really knows how hard it is to compute a valid block.  The trial-and-error method used by miners is just the most efficient method that we know; but there is no proof or other evidence that there is no better way.  There may well exist an agorithm that finds the right nonce for a block header in a few microseconds.  Or, worse, finds a block that has the same hash of another block but a different contents, including a specific transaction that is not in the first block.  Or finds the private key for any given address.  So, the theoretical "mass cost" of computing a valid block may be orders of magnitude lower than the trial-and-error cost.

Yes, we may also be brains in a vat. Or, you may walk outside and a piano may fall on your head. Also, the law of gravity may cease being in force tomorrow at 0:00 GMT.  

A lot of things may happen.

You should therefore stay at home and not take any risks at all. Except, of course, that may cause you to autocombust.

tarmi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 1011


View Profile
March 02, 2015, 04:38:52 PM

longs going crazy on bitfinex.

go bulls!
NotLambchop
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378
Merit: 254


View Profile
March 02, 2015, 04:40:25 PM

...
Yes, we may also be brains in a vat. Or, you may walk outside and a piano may fall on your head. Also, the law of gravity may cease being in force tomorrow at 0:00 GMT.  

A lot of things may happen.
...
Only one thing is certain:  UR an fagit.
Pages: « 1 ... 11394 11395 11396 11397 11398 11399 11400 11401 11402 11403 11404 11405 11406 11407 11408 11409 11410 11411 11412 11413 11414 11415 11416 11417 11418 11419 11420 11421 11422 11423 11424 11425 11426 11427 11428 11429 11430 11431 11432 11433 11434 11435 11436 11437 11438 11439 11440 11441 11442 11443 [11444] 11445 11446 11447 11448 11449 11450 11451 11452 11453 11454 11455 11456 11457 11458 11459 11460 11461 11462 11463 11464 11465 11466 11467 11468 11469 11470 11471 11472 11473 11474 11475 11476 11477 11478 11479 11480 11481 11482 11483 11484 11485 11486 11487 11488 11489 11490 11491 11492 11493 11494 ... 34889 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!