Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[marcus_of_augustus]

Anyone else have that strong sensation that we're going to have a nice Xmas gift of above 500?

dunno, looks like the derp army is pretty butthurt with Hearn's ragequit defection to the bankster darkside and subsequent total disintegration of the White Knight XT project ... they could crap the place up for quite some time with their butthurt herp-derp, more accumulation phase I guess until they fork off or accept the technical realities of the day ...

tl;dr too many deflated bruised egos on display for a new constructive phase right now.

[brg444]

>>>brg444
I think he meant "makes small transactions impractical." Imagine if every fiat transaction cost you a dollar to make. Sure, you still have pennies and dimes and stuff, but your prices can't go down to a penny anymore, thus "less divisible for practical purposes."

Except with Bitcoin there are alternatives. If you wanna send pennies around why not use Changetip? Do you really need 700,000,000 GH/s of security for your latte purchase?

[billyjoeallen]

>>>billyjoeallen: the whole lock analogy is inappropriate. The bloating thieves don't get anything of value by bloating the blockchain, shit inside house stays inside.  What they do is essentially piss on your stoop, thus decreasing the attractiveness of your neighborhood and, potentially, dropping property values.

Timestamps aren't valuable? microtransactions aren't valuable? equities and derivatives markets with low overhead and transparency aren't valuable? Low friction trade isn't valuable?
I suggest you look up "valuable" in the dictionary.

Have the thieves stolen any timestamps from you, by bloating the blockchain? How many microtransactions did they make off with?
How many equities and derivatives markets with low overhead and transparency?
If not obvious, no, no they did not. If I burn down your house, sure, you have to rebuild it/buy a new one, but I didn't steal it.

People who buy blockspace can do whatever the hell they want with it. It's theirs. They bought it. If I can sell 12 eggs profitably for $1 but scale up to sell 144 eggs profitably for $2, what the hell do I care if the buyer eggs a house or make an omelette?   The market rewards them for using resources wisely and punishes them for wasting them.  Who am I to say "you don't need more than 12 eggs" ESPECIALLY when i can benefit from economies of scale when I sell?  

The cost of running a node is trivial. I know. I'm running one (XT). The opportunity cost of pricing out most of our customers is huge.  Understand this: we sell blockspace. If we can sell a lot more for just marginally more overhead, everybody wins.  Greater efficiency is the only free lunch in the universe.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Anyone else have that strong sensation that we're going to have a nice Xmas gift of above 500?

dunno, looks like the derp army is pretty butthurt with Hearn's ragequit defection to the bankster darkside and subsequent total disintegration of the White Knight XT project ... they could crap the place up for quite some time with their butthurt herp-derp, more accumulation phase I guess until they fork off or accept the technical realities of the day ...

tl;dr too many deflated bruised egos on display for a new constructive phase right now.

I appreciate your tone. You have a warm, soothing way about you.

I believe Gavin is now in charge of XT.

[Ultrafinery]

>>>brg444
I think he meant "makes small transactions impractical." Imagine if every fiat transaction cost you a dollar to make. Sure, you still have pennies and dimes and stuff, but your prices can't go down to a penny anymore, thus "less divisible for practical purposes."

Except with Bitcoin there are alternatives. If you wanna send pennies around why not use Changetip? Do you really need 700,000,000 GH/s of security for your latte purchase?

Hell no I don't need 700,000,000 GH/s of 'security' for my latte purchase. That's like having a billion dollar lock on my front door and a screen door out back - *getting the hashrate up that high does nothing for security, especially since 95% of it is in the hands of 9 people.*
Bonus: those 9 people are friends.
Get it?

And who sells latte for Changetip? Inquiring minds want to know!

...
People who buy blockspace can do whatever the hell they want with it. It's theirs.

Who dat? Who be buyin' blockspace?

[marcus_of_augustus]

Understand this: we sell blockspace.

ummm, wait, didn't you just say before that is was the one true P2P CASH system? Now it is a blockspace real estate bucket shop operation?

[billyjoeallen]

Understand this: we sell blockspace.

ummm, wait, didn't you just say before that is was the one true P2P CASH system? Now it is a blockspace real estate bucket shop operation?

As Andreas Antonopolis says, it's "the Internet of money". You apparently want to keep connections limited to 300 baud modems so only the most useful information is shared.

[Fatman3001]

First, most cryptocurrencies are based on the bitcoin protocol. So bitcoin is still in use, as a protocol, even if it isn't as a currency for a particular transaction.

If I use LTC, I still use the bitcoin protocol. The elements are pretty much the same.

So when push comes to shove Bitcoin XT is an alt and Litecoin is Bitcoin?

In the words of Eurofighters representative in the bid for new fighter jets for Norway:

"You can't change the rules in the middle of the game. We have to know what game we're playing. If we're playing football the ball goes in the net. If we're playing rugby it goes over the pole."

[marcus_of_augustus]

Understand this: we sell blockspace.

ummm, wait, didn't you just say before that is was the one true P2P CASH system? Now it is a blockspace real estate bucket shop operation?

As Andreas Antonopolis says, it's "the Internet of money". You apparently want to keep connections limited to 300 baud modems so only the most useful information is shared.

Always resort to the casting of vague aspersions and unsubstantiated BS. You apparently have no clue what I want, neither what you want I suspect.

It's by design a peer-to-peer electronic CASH system.

your words.

No wonder nobody takes you idiots seriously because you have no arguments just dumb half-baked economic theories, innuendo and then finally smearing and butthurt ragequit.

But I also suspect this is not the real BJA but someone he sold his account to ... someone who is quite happy to troll endlessly on a seemingly divisive issue (but that in reality was settled long ago) to stir up the FUD and milk the confusion cow for as long as possible.

[Pruden]

Money is simply the most marketable (liquid) commodity. In many languages the word "silver" is a synonym for money. It's the thing that eliminates the need for a double coincidence of wants. Using altcoins is basically the same as going back to barter. That's taking money backwards, not forwards.

You don't go back to barter because barter was never the beginning of anything. This has to be the most misguided conception of Austrian Economics. Centuries of Anthropology have not yielded a single testament to the use of barter before money. Which makes sense, because it is absolutely useless.

Money was debt since invention. Favours owed to others. The fact that it takes the form of a commodity is that it was the only way to keep track of it, the first (decentralized) ledger.

[Fatman3001]

Understand this: we sell blockspace.

ummm, wait, didn't you just say before that is was the one true P2P CASH system? Now it is a blockspace real estate bucket shop operation?

As Andreas Antonopolis says, it's "the Internet of money". You apparently want to keep connections limited to 300 baud modems so only the most useful information is shared.

Always resort to the casting of vague aspersions and unsubstantiated BS. You apparently have no clue what I want, neither what you want I suspect.

It's by design a peer-to-peer electronic CASH system.

your words.

No wonder nobody takes you idiots seriously because you have no arguments just dumb half-baked economic theories, innuendo and then finally smearing and butthurt ragequit.

But I also suspect this is not the real BJA but someone he sold his account to ... someone who is quite happy to troll endlessly on a seemingly divisive issue (but that in reality was settled long ago) to stir up the FUD and milk the confusion cow for as long as possible.

OH-MY-FRIGGIN-FIDDLY-BLIMMIN-BLURTING-GOD!!!!!!

BJA IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!1!!1!!

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

[billyjoeallen]

It's by design a peer-to-peer electronic CASH system.

your words.

No wonder nobody takes you idiots seriously because you have no arguments just dumb half-baked economic theories, innuendo and then finally smearing and butthurt ragequit.

But I also suspect this is not the real BJA but someone he sold his account to ... someone who is quite happy to troll endlessly on a seemingly divisive issue (but that in reality was settled long ago) to stir up the FUD and milk the confusion cow for as long as possible.

It's the title of the motherfucking white paper, Marcus. If it's settled, then why do you even bother responding to me? Are you afraid your fear-mongering about centralization isn't as effective as you want it to be?

[Fatman3001]

... If we're playing football the ball goes in the net. If we're playing rugby it goes over the pole."

And if we're tea-bagging...

Out with the rule book, in with Kenny G.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[Cconvert2G36]

All you idiots and your innuendo about "basic economic theory". Bitcoin is the one ring to rule them all, except monero, which is better, but... where was I? Oh yes, Bitcoin is gold, digital gold, elementally unique and free from outside competition. We simply have to sit back, read popescu's blogs, snark the free shit army, and just wait for all those central bank reserves to come rolling in. And then... guess what? We're rich!  



Can I get an amen and a XTard, hdbuck? Maybe a devastating one liner from early adopter brg444?

brb, syncing my catcoin and corgicoin full node clients to make some purchases

 

[r0ach]

This thread has turned into a complete noob convention.  Whether you think block size should be 1MB or 10MB, to address spam on a blockchain, you don't purposely make the blocks as small as possible, you institute a minimum transaction fee capable of preventing the spam regardless of block size.  Litecoin has a 0.001 min transaction fee for this reason.  Bitcoin needs to increase the minimum transaction fee as well.  Zero fee transactions never should have existed in the first place.

[hdbuck]

This thread has turned into a complete noob convention.  Whether you think block size should be 1MB or 10MB, to address spam on a blockchain, you don't purposely make the blocks as small as possible, you institute a minimum transaction fee capable of preventing the spam regardless of block size.  Litecoin has a 0.001 min transaction fee for this reason.  Bitcoin needs to increase the minimum transaction fee as well.  Zero fee transactions never should have existed in the first place.

Bitcoin doesnt "need" anything. Bitcoin "is".

[suda123]

Understand this: we sell blockspace.

ummm, wait, didn't you just say before that is was the one true P2P CASH system? Now it is a blockspace real estate bucket shop operation?

As Andreas Antonopolis says, it's "the Internet of money". You apparently want to keep connections limited to 300 baud modems so only the most useful information is shared.

Always resort to the casting of vague aspersions and unsubstantiated BS. You apparently have no clue what I want, neither what you want I suspect.

It's by design a peer-to-peer electronic CASH system.

your words.

No wonder nobody takes you idiots seriously because you have no arguments just dumb half-baked economic theories, innuendo and then finally smearing and butthurt ragequit.

But I also suspect this is not the real BJA but someone he sold his account to ... someone who is quite happy to troll endlessly on a seemingly divisive issue (but that in reality was settled long ago) to stir up the FUD and milk the confusion cow for as long as possible.

OH-MY-FRIGGIN-FIDDLY-BLIMMIN-BLURTING-GOD!!!!!!

BJA IS SATOSHI NAKAMOTO!!1!!1!!

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Whats BJA?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

BJA | British Journal of Anaesthesia. Try to keep up.

[AlexGR]

My "no" was not in terms of dissimilarity but in terms of "the worst of both worlds". You make it sound like it's a nightmare scenario when it is not.

Either shopping at a bazaar where all the dealers use different fiat money & you have to exchange money all the time is a nightmare, or it's not. It's certainly not as frictionless as everybody using the *same* kind of money, no?
Given a choice, which would *you* choose?

Well, there are like 200 countries in the world. It's not a disaster if people use 5-10 cryptocurrencies.

Why would anyone hold bitcoins (the tokens), if no one uses the particular instance of blockchain (the Bitcoin blockchain)?

Store of value of BTC > Store of value of altcoins

Wouldn't LTC be the gold standard (since everyone uses it)?

No because it is understood that in the long run, the increased use means a coin with a very bloated blockchain that will become increasingly difficult to transact with, or have a properly syncing wallet.

The idea of disposable blockchains / altcoins, that serve a role for some time and then die, should not be ruled out if scaling issues with bitcoin make tx spillover into altcoins.

The only reason exchanges don't let you convert shitcoins directly into fiat is because legit exchanges don't want to bother. If an exchange can legally handle fiat, it can legally turn shitcoins directly into fiat. Without the pointless extra step of first turning them into BTC.

Most exchanges don't support turning all shitcoins to fiat, only a few. And even then their trading pairs are very thin in volume so it's preferable to go through BTC/shitcoin pair before getting fiat. If you can't even dump a few BTCs worth of shitcoins without crashing their USD price => goto BTC pair.

Fiat is the least volotile, just convert straight into fiat. Hey, make it easy on yourself, use fiat throughout & avoid all this rigamarole.

It depends which fiat you are talking about. USD/EUR/GBP/CAD/AUD etc, are relatively strong currencies. But what if you live in places where after 3-4-5 years, you have huge devaluations, say your local currency was 40:1 with the USD and then you go to 100:1.

For these countries, where inflation is a given tendency, money tends to move to safer assets, like gold, real estate, even BTC. Of these assets (gold, real estate, BTC), only BTC is directly spendable as money where you can actually open a browser, order things or services, pay with BTC and voila, you are ready. This gives it a tremendous advantage.

Not to mention capital controls... from where I am right now, I can't transact internationally with fiat as my government has restricted my right to do so. I can't even buy 10$ worth of stuff from some chinese eshop if I wanted to. However, with BTCs I am not restricted the same way. So when a government can flip a switch on and off on my ability to conduct international trade, that's a huge problem right there with fiat. When a government can confiscate money from my bank account, again huge problem. And the list doesn't end there.

Not too familiar with NXT, but doesn't it have its own tokens, imaginatively called NXT?

It does.