Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[aamarket]

Do you think that touching BFX token can jeopardize possible legal case ?

[Elwar]

Do you think that touching BFX token can jeopardize possible legal case ?

Probably. I'd rather lose 15% right now than 75% in legal shit and time wasted.

[Dafar]

To whoever invested more than you can afford to lose, because you realize this could still be the investment of a lifetime and the reward can be SO VAST that the risk of losing everything seems minimal in comparison.... let's do this fellers

[Karartma1]

To whoever invested more than you can afford to lose, because you realize this could still be the investment of a lifetime and the reward can be SO VAST that the risk of losing everything seems minimal in comparison.... let's do this fellers

I have an everyday mantra: stupid idiot you should have bought more!


This whole bitcoin thing still excites me like the very first day.
Yesterday I gave some bits to a friend and explained her how bitcoin works.

I don't share much these days because the media did a great job in dirtying bitcoin's reputation so I always tend not to polemize when the word bitcoin comes up. I don't care anymore.

There's plenty of info today if one wants to understand.

I'll drink that to you!

[bitebits]

This whole bitcoin thing still excites me like the very first day.
Yesterday I gave some bits to a friend and explained her how bitcoin works.
[...]
There's plenty of info today if one wants to understand.
[...]

Absolutely, it gets better each day Bitcoin moves along.
And for new comers in this wonderful crypto world, there are plenty of resources nowadays that give a way less biased image then just a few years ago.

[JayJuanGee]

If QC can break SHA256 is should be able to break most crypto so that's kind of doomish...

My prediction is that unless there is some kind of measure taken to prevent quantum computers stealing old and "lost" coins, we can pretty much expect that all of these will be "recovered" or "stolen" (depending your perspective).

In that scenario all of Bitcoin is toast. As is the entirety of the internet in its present form. Let's hope something is done before this becomes a thing.

Quantum computers recovering (or stealing) lost coins that are kept in old wallets does not rise to any kind of level of doom for the whole internet. 

If old coins are not moved, and kept in old wallets, those wallets become vulnerable to quantum computers, but newer wallets can take security measures in order that they are not vulnerable to the same quantum computer attacks.

There could be some kind of measures to protect the old non moving coins from such attacks, yet I think that if in a worser case scenario they are recovered (or stolen) by someone who has such quantum computing capabilities, there is no real end to bitcoin because at such point soon thereafter, those coins would be put into circulation and potentially just dilute the bitcoin market for a short period of time, and price will adjust to such dilution. 

Maybe I have a bit of a misunderstanding of the issue, but I had been thinking that there are going to continue to be incremental changes in cryptography, and if the old btc addresses (wallets/private keys) were secured with older cryptography and/or technology, then those older addresses would be marginally more vulnerable than addresses that are actively maintained, updated, moved or whatever has to take place to improve their security.

Surely, I do not know enough about cryptography to speak in any kind of meaningful way, so I am merely extrapolating from knowledge that I have and my understanding of the world and my understanding of various kinds of technological advancement exceeding current day expectations and/or evolving in ways that are different from earlier expectations.

[JayJuanGee]

Slippage on a 1k buy, no? It's not as if Bitfinex has the fattest walls compared to the old days. A bit of fun for everyone.

Yep.  Forced me to have to set three buy back orders and to reset my three sell orders that got filled..

Works for me.


So, now a current question is whether bitfinex is going to come back to it's pre-spike prices of $610 and synchronize with the other exchanges, or are other exchanges going to come up to meet bitfinex in some kind of middle ground, such as $615 or perhaps resolve on some higher price in the lower $620s or more? 

Currently, bitfinex seems a bit reluctant to come down, but even before the spike, I had noticed that bitfinex prices had been hovering several dollars higher than the apparent overall average.

The higher price on BFX reflects the distrust as a result of their damaged reputation, since it's harder to get fiat out as it is to get BTC out. Hence, fiat is worth a little less at BFX than on other exchanges (and thus, the price of BTC in fiat is higher). It's people voting with their money.

To some degree, that makes sense regarding the current price differential, yet we are likely going to see how this situation plays out over time.  I get the sense that over time bitfinex could recuperate some of its reputation, and it remains interesting to see how it's creative solution of issuing the BFX coin plays out and whether Bitfinex gets boggled down in litigation and government regulation or if it is somehow going to be able to side-step some of these kinds of trappings.  Furthermore, it could be interesting whether they are either able to recuperate some or all stolen coins or if they avoid experiencing some additional security breaches.  Lot's of obstacles, barriers and hurdles, so let's see.

[JayJuanGee]

Slippage on a 1k buy, no? It's not as if Bitfinex has the fattest walls compared to the old days. A bit of fun for everyone.

Yep.  Forced me to have to set three buy back orders and to reset my three sell orders that got filled..

Works for me.


So, now a current question is whether bitfinex is going to come back to it's pre-spike prices of $610 and synchronize with the other exchanges, or are other exchanges going to come up to meet bitfinex in some kind of middle ground, such as $615 or perhaps resolve on some higher price in the lower $620s or more? 

Currently, bitfinex seems a bit reluctant to come down, but even before the spike, I had noticed that bitfinex prices had been hovering several dollars higher than the apparent overall average.

The higher price on BFX reflects the distrust as a result of their damaged reputation, since it's harder to get fiat out as it is to get BTC out. Hence, fiat is worth a little less at BFX than on other exchanges (and thus, the price of BTC in fiat is higher). It's people voting with their money.

At least their BFX is up to 60 cents each. Two thirds of our funds returned and 60% of the last third available. So about 85% returned at this point. I'm still holding out for full re-reimbursement.

From reading some of your posts, it seems that some of our finances are similar in respect to bitfinex.

Surely, the bitfinex situation did create a bit of a doldrum regarding the extent to which those BFX coins had any value.  I had my own dilemmas about the situation, which likely are not completely resolved.  Anyhow I set up a staggered selling schedule, which caused a small amount of selling at various intervals as the price goes up.  If the price discontinues going up, then I am going to be stuck with a large percentage of my coins.  So far, I have cashed out of a bit more than 15% of my originally issued BFX holdings, and yeah so far, USA residents (which is me) cannot trade.. We can only sell, or maybe use some of our holdings to purchase some equity, which is coming soon (as we are informed of that).

[JayJuanGee]

To whoever invested more than you can afford to lose, because you realize this could still be the investment of a lifetime and the reward can be SO VAST that the risk of losing everything seems minimal in comparison.... let's do this fellers

To each their own... but I would never phrase anything as being prudent if any person is investing more than they can afford to lose.  That is called irrational and exuberant gambling.

There are various ways to risk a lot while still being prudent, for example, if a person is very young, then that person may have more ability to risk more than someone who is older.. partly dependent also on financial means and back up resources.  Accordingly, there are other assets, besides youth, that a person may have that could justify approaching the matter in a more risk loving manner, as you seem to be advocating (at least for yourself). 

[Elwar]

From reading some of your posts, it seems that some of our finances are similar in respect to bitfinex.

Surely, the bitfinex situation did create a bit of a doldrum regarding the extent to which those BFX coins had any value.  I had my own dilemmas about the situation, which likely are not completely resolved.  Anyhow I set up a staggered selling schedule, which caused a small amount of selling at various intervals as the price goes up.  If the price discontinues going up, then I am going to be stuck with a large percentage of my coins.  So far, I have cashed out of a bit more than 15% of my originally issued BFX holdings, and yeah so far, USA residents (which is me) cannot trade.. We can only sell, or maybe use some of our holdings to purchase some equity, which is coming soon (as we are informed of that).

I actually wouldn't mind some Bitfinex equity if it survives this. Exchanges make a lot of money and you can't invest in most exchanges. Other than buying that Romanian exchange that shut down.

[Karartma1]

I would never put on the same plate investing $1000 in Bitcoin against gambling with them.
Investing in Bitcoin is not like being in a casino.

Most of us are here for different reason but I think that the majority understands the exceptional nature of BTC.
 

[Elwar]

To whoever invested more than you can afford to lose, because you realize this could still be the investment of a lifetime and the reward can be SO VAST that the risk of losing everything seems minimal in comparison.... let's do this fellers

Who is investing "more than they can afford to lose"?

If you invested the money then you obviously had the money. Unless you have no job then you have the means to get more money.

If you're sitting there with $50k to pay for mom's medical bill and you instead convert it to bitcoins then yes, maybe that is not a smart choice.

For me, BTC/USD could go to $0 and I'd be fine. Hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of value lost but in 2 weeks I'll get a paycheck and can pay for my living expenses.

Even if you take a loan out to buy bitcoins, too bad for your creditor if it goes to zero.

[Searing]

I'm just mining LTC to BTC on stuff more or less that has ROI'd (some stuff in dec will ROI then thats it)

anyway I see a lot of press both legit and not legit saying that 2016-2017  BTC will go to 850/1000/1500/2000/4100 etc (pick a number)

it reminds me of the good (bad?) old days when BTC was at around $1100 usd and BTC was gonna go to 2k for sure

Then China had issues with BTC and mt. gox soon after etc etc


Not saying for sure it is NOT gonna fly up in price...just the fact when EVERYONE seems to be sure it is gonna....it creeps me out

[JayJuanGee]

From reading some of your posts, it seems that some of our finances are similar in respect to bitfinex.

Surely, the bitfinex situation did create a bit of a doldrum regarding the extent to which those BFX coins had any value.  I had my own dilemmas about the situation, which likely are not completely resolved.  Anyhow I set up a staggered selling schedule, which caused a small amount of selling at various intervals as the price goes up.  If the price discontinues going up, then I am going to be stuck with a large percentage of my coins.  So far, I have cashed out of a bit more than 15% of my originally issued BFX holdings, and yeah so far, USA residents (which is me) cannot trade.. We can only sell, or maybe use some of our holdings to purchase some equity, which is coming soon (as we are informed of that).

I actually wouldn't mind some Bitfinex equity if it survives this. Exchanges make a lot of money and you can't invest in most exchanges. Other than buying that Romanian exchange that shut down.

Possibly, it does not hurt to have that level of confidence in Bitfinex, and I do appreciate some of their attempts at innovation.  At this moment, I do not have a lot of confidence in the equity option, but never say never, we have not yet seen the product and maybe read the prospectus, if their is going to be any such document coming out.

[JayJuanGee]

To whoever invested more than you can afford to lose, because you realize this could still be the investment of a lifetime and the reward can be SO VAST that the risk of losing everything seems minimal in comparison.... let's do this fellers

Who is investing "more than they can afford to lose"?

You seem to be misquoting me.  I was responding to Dafar's comment, and in your above editing, you seem to have attributed Dafar's comments to me.

The fact of the matter is that some people do invest more than they can afford to lose in a kind of gambling style... there are a variety of ways to accomplish such and a variety of individual stories.

If you invested the money then you obviously had the money. Unless you have no job then you have the means to get more money.

You can borrow, also or otherwise leverage assets and/or credit.

If you're sitting there with $50k to pay for mom's medical bill and you instead convert it to bitcoins then yes, maybe that is not a smart choice.

Yes... these kinds of things happen when people have variations of gambling addiction issues.

For me, BTC/USD could go to $0 and I'd be fine. Hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of value lost but in 2 weeks I'll get a paycheck and can pay for my living expenses.

Well, a prudent choice with any volatile asset is to only invest as much as you afford to lose, and maybe you are doing it right.  No matter what, with volatile assets, it does not seem to be an easy balance.. and the past couple of years have been quite a test for a lot of folks, including myself.  I have learned quite a bit, and there are certainly a lot of challenges in terms of allocating money for bitcoin.

Even if you take a loan out to buy bitcoins, too bad for your creditor if it goes to zero.

Probably depends on the type of loan, and the kind of creditor that you have.  If the creditor sends Guito over to break legs, then surely that kind of creditor will make sure that he is not the only one suffering.

[bitebits]

Any speculations when we will reach $666 again? I wonder if it requires bitcoin to go up or the dollar to go down.

[julian071]

I really need more hopium. Please give me some. Development is sooooo slow. In the meanwhile this: https://tweakers.net/nieuws/115745/abn-amro-begint-met-test-voor-nfc-betalingen-met-android-smartphones.html, Dutch bank experiments with Android wallet and payment via NFC.

[Elwar]

I really need more hopium. Please give me some. Development is sooooo slow. In the meanwhile this: https://tweakers.net/nieuws/115745/abn-amro-begint-met-test-voor-nfc-betalingen-met-android-smartphones.html, Dutch bank experiments with Android wallet and payment via NFC.

So...you can use your bank account to pay via NFC?

moon?

[gentlemand]

I really need more hopium. Please give me some. Development is sooooo slow. In the meanwhile this: https://tweakers.net/nieuws/115745/abn-amro-begint-met-test-voor-nfc-betalingen-met-android-smartphones.html, Dutch bank experiments with Android wallet and payment via NFC.

Man, those pesky Dutch are a long way behind. It's been possible to do this in the UK since before the wheel was invented.

[Fakhoury]