Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ChartBuddy]

[ChartBuddy]

[vokain]

getting steeper?

also, how do I run chartbuddy live?

[ChartBuddy]

[molecular]

We are certainly getting closer to their apocalypse (Us uncovering the truth). But how long will it go on?

THAT is the 64 quadrillion dollar question ...

I truly hope that they do not use more war as a means of prolonging the inevitable, but I would certainly not rule it out  

boom, bust, war... repeat.

I fear they might want to go that route once again. Only the people of the world can stop it.

[only]

well, I'm sure if they see bitcoin appreciation outpacing USD inflation, they'll eventually tend to hold bitcoins over dollars

THIS

[ChartBuddy]

[molecular]

What is shows is that people will do anything to get that mighty USD.  Don't confuse that with love of Bitcoin...it's just another bridge to something real, secure and trusted.  Oh yeah...King Dollar.  

Confuse?
I got to call bullshit when I see it and well... "Bullshit".
It's one thing to be a short to mid term bear (and ride that wave as it agrees with your overall opinion), but it's another to distort and try to hijack and overall great picture.

No matter what currency is king (and the dollar will continue for a while longer), the ability to have a tool that allows you to move in and out of it regardless of governments wishes (regulations, power, etc.) is a power we have not experienced (that I am aware of) before. Gold and Silver are too easily stopped (due to obvious reasons). To have a digital version though, is another story.

So, ride the bear wave all you want but don't stretch that same bullshit to a revolutionary technology.
Don't cloud what is so clear.

I have a feeling when BTC once again does clearly turn around and become huge, you will not change your opinion what so ever.

It's these moments that you so poorly hide that show your true colors...

If I'm wrong... oops.  

You can paint whatever delusions you want...they are using BTC to get USD.  Period.  They would use bear Sh%t, if anyone would accept if for USD but that doesn't mean they like bear sh%t.  The technology is revolutionary sure but there is plenty of it out there and much more to come.  Maybe BTC will be one of many to survive, maybe it won't.  I could care less because what I know is the delusions of you permabulls that Bitcoin is like the "internet" and a "one world currency is imminent" are all fantasies created in your own minds.  

It's crypto that is like the "internet".  Bitcoin is just a single brand, like Netscape or maybe AOL.  Who knows, who cares.  
Crypto is here to stay, no denying that and I love it, especially under regulations.  But Bitcoin is just another brand that can fade like any other brand.  This is why I love Ripple.  It's about letting people engage in commerce with ANY currency, not trying to force just one currency down everyones throat.  But I digress...

Bitcoin is just a type of crypto, yes. But a strong one... the first one. It's likely to make it out on top when crypto in general becomes accepted by more and more people. If not (and another, better one comes out on top), well: fine be me. I might be a little disgruntled and kick myself for not buying more TopCoin earlier, but I'll still be living in a world that has no assholes being able to print money at will and that's the real upside.

Yes, they (Argentinians) are using BTC to get USD, but they're having contact with Bitcoin and actually using it. They will not just simply forget about the concept. They are now infected with the crypto virus. Takes time to incubate, but it never leaves you and in no time you find yourself bragging about how you teleported your wealth out of the country by memorizing a string of numbers and letters to your friends and had you just not converted back to USD you'd now be twice as rich, damnit, maybe I should buy some bitcoins again .

"It's about letting people engage in commerce with ANY currency" <- I disagree. It's not about that. Yes: ripple is a wonderful system (or open transactions?) for allowing transmission and automatic trade of IOUs. In case you're saying XRP (the ripple built-in money you need for using the system) is the money in ripple that will become the "main currency" everything will be based off of (reserve currency) then your argument is moot because then we're talking one currency again. Ripple can be great for running your local or niche currency and it can be a good tool for transferring IOUs of existing currencies, but it doesn't solve counterparty risk or problems inherent to the moneys you're transferring IOUs of.

It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.

[Its About Sharing]

What is shows is that people will do anything to get that mighty USD.  Don't confuse that with love of Bitcoin...it's just another bridge to something real, secure and trusted.  Oh yeah...King Dollar.  

Confuse?
I got to call bullshit when I see it and well... "Bullshit".
It's one thing to be a short to mid term bear (and ride that wave as it agrees with your overall opinion), but it's another to distort and try to hijack and overall great picture.

No matter what currency is king (and the dollar will continue for a while longer), the ability to have a tool that allows you to move in and out of it regardless of governments wishes (regulations, power, etc.) is a power we have not experienced (that I am aware of) before. Gold and Silver are too easily stopped (due to obvious reasons). To have a digital version though, is another story.

So, ride the bear wave all you want but don't stretch that same bullshit to a revolutionary technology.
Don't cloud what is so clear.

I have a feeling when BTC once again does clearly turn around and become huge, you will not change your opinion what so ever.

It's these moments that you so poorly hide that show your true colors...

If I'm wrong... oops.  

You can paint whatever delusions you want...they are using BTC to get USD.  Period.  They would use bear Sh%t, if anyone would accept if for USD but that doesn't mean they like bear sh%t.  The technology is revolutionary sure but there is plenty of it out there and much more to come.  Maybe BTC will be one of many to survive, maybe it won't.  I could care less because what I know is the delusions of you permabulls that Bitcoin is like the "internet" and a "one world currency is imminent" are all fantasies created in your own minds.  

It's crypto that is like the "internet".  Bitcoin is just a single brand, like Netscape or maybe AOL.  Who knows, who cares.  
Crypto is here to stay, no denying that and I love it, especially under regulations.  But Bitcoin is just another brand that can fade like any other brand.  This is why I love Ripple.  It's about letting people engage in commerce with ANY currency, not trying to force just one currency down everyones throat.  But I digress...

Bitcoin is just a type of crypto, yes. But a strong one... the first one. It's likely to make it out on top when crypto in general becomes accepted by more and more people. If not (and another, better one comes out on top), well: fine be me. I might be a little disgruntled and kick myself for not buying more TopCoin earlier, but I'll still be living in a world that has no assholes being able to print money at will and that's the real upside.

Yes, they (Argentinians) are using BTC to get USD, but they're having contact with Bitcoin and actually using it. They will not just simply forget about the concept. They are now infected with the crypto virus. Takes time to incubate, but it never leaves you and in no time you find yourself bragging about how you teleported your wealth out of the country by memorizing a string of numbers and letters to your friends and had you just not converted back to USD you'd now be twice as rich, damnit, maybe I should buy some bitcoins again .

"It's about letting people engage in commerce with ANY currency" <- I disagree. It's not about that. Yes: ripple is a wonderful system (or open transactions?) for allowing transmission and automatic trade of IOUs. In case you're saying XRP (the ripple built-in money you need for using the system) is the money in ripple that will become the "main currency" everything will be based off of (reserve currency) then your argument is moot because then we're talking one currency again. Ripple can be great for running your local or niche currency and it can be a good tool for transferring IOUs of existing currencies, but it doesn't solve counterparty risk or problems inherent to the moneys you're transferring IOUs of.

It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.

Nicely said and thanks for saving me some more typing.      Coinseeker likes to integrate a variety of logical fallacies into his posts and you clarified things.

Exactly - it isn't about BTC per say but it is the best, most accepted and first to the show. It would be great if BTC is The One to succeed, but that is not the point. We are a part of something bigger.

And correct again, it is being used and is giving us a choice as a medium of exchange. Be it for products, as a store of wealth or to subvertedly get into and out of other currencies... Really, it is like digital gold.

[crumbs]

...It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.

I just wonder if the market can *still* do its thing without "monetary injections."  It hasn't lived a"natural" lifestyle for so long, shooting meth to wake up, dope to get through the day & horse tranqs to fall asleep -- i doubt it could get clean without barfing all over the place, throwing temper tantrums & cleaning out my wallet for "just one more fix."  What if the best we could look forward to is a series of methadone clinics, AA meetings & ugly relapses?  "If you gonna be like this, might as well get back on the stuff, Lee."

[molecular]

...It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.

I just wonder if the market can *still* do its thing without "monetary injections."  It hasn't lived a"natural" lifestyle for so long, shooting meth to wake up, dope to get through the day & horse tranqs to fall asleep -- i doubt it could get clean without barfing all over the place, throwing temper tantrums & cleaning out my wallet for "just one more fix."  What if the best we could look forward to is a series of methadone clinics, AA meetings & ugly relapses?  "If you gonna be like this, might as well get back on the stuff, Lee."

The economy is a swarm of entities. You can talk about it like it was one organism, which is true to an extent, but on the other hand if parts of that swarm fail, it doesn't mean the whole thing dies.

Parts of the economy will die a horrible death and/or suffer severe withdrawal symptoms. Guess which parts: the ineffective ones that had been regularly injected before. The party will be over for those guys, their confidence dwindling and being replaced by suicidal wishes and hate. Some will come around, though.

Other parts of the economy that had previously been suppressed and kept from fair market access are going to thrive and steal the show of the fake boys on coke in their unreasonably big cars.

The cancer will die off.

To come back to an earlier point by coinseeker: Yes, it's imagination. But doesn't everything start like that? As dreams in the heads of people?

[ElectricMucus]

If your libertarian romantic ever plays out I rather think we are facing the extinction of the human race. 

[ChartBuddy]

[Its About Sharing]

...It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.

I just wonder if the market can *still* do its thing without "monetary injections."  It hasn't lived a"natural" lifestyle for so long, shooting meth to wake up, dope to get through the day & horse tranqs to fall asleep -- i doubt it could get clean without barfing all over the place, throwing temper tantrums & cleaning out my wallet for "just one more fix."  What if the best we could look forward to is a series of methadone clinics, AA meetings & ugly relapses?  "If you gonna be like this, might as well get back on the stuff, Lee."

You have to watch some of Max Keisser regarding "quantitative easing". The short answer "they" we can't stop. The debt has grown so large and once we slow the printing of money we can no longer pay for the debt as the interest rates will move up. QE will continue until things pop. (We have a bond bubble as well.) Interest rates are rising anyway. Seriously, it is going to get interesting, very interesting. Talk about the worlds largest social experiment, I say the money one ends as the others have (Boom).

Speaking of which, here is his latest episode - A GREAT ONE - on... Quantitative Easing. Coincidence?
(Worth 2 watches.)

http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episode-472-max-keiser-217/

In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert ask whether or not it will ever be possible to unwind quantitative easing as the parallel universe it has created sucks out interest payments and central bankers’ brain cells. They discuss the latest in a long line of market rigging - this time the traders who allegedly rigged QE.  In the second half, Max talks to Pete Comley, author of Inflation Tax, about inflation, how government regulated prices are rising the fastest, and the pound sterling’s century-long decline. Comley also asks where are the protests in the UK against the 11 percent theft of savings by quantitative easing?

[molecular]

http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episode-472-max-keiser-217/

oh yes. crackheads in the roach motel.

here's another opinion (the same one essentially) by Detlev Schlichter:

After two decades of serial bubble-blowing, the world’s central bankers have maneuvered themselves into a corner. They created a monster in the form of an unbalanced global economy and a bloated financial system, laden with debt, addicted to cheap money, and in need of constantly rising asset prices. Now the monster is in charge and the central bankers dare not stop feeding it.

[MickeyT2008]

...It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.

I just wonder if the market can *still* do its thing without "monetary injections."  It hasn't lived a"natural" lifestyle for so long, shooting meth to wake up, dope to get through the day & horse tranqs to fall asleep -- i doubt it could get clean without barfing all over the place, throwing temper tantrums & cleaning out my wallet for "just one more fix."  What if the best we could look forward to is a series of methadone clinics, AA meetings & ugly relapses?  "If you gonna be like this, might as well get back on the stuff, Lee."

You have to watch some of Max Keisser regarding "quantitative easing". The short answer "they" we can't stop. The debt has grown so large and once we slow the printing of money we can no longer pay for the debt as the interest rates will move up. QE will continue until things pop. (We have a bond bubble as well.) Interest rates are rising anyway. Seriously, it is going to get interesting, very interesting. Talk about the worlds largest social experiment, I say the money one ends as the others have (Boom).

Speaking of which, here is his latest episode - A GREAT ONE - on... Quantitative Easing. Coincidence?
(Worth 2 watches.)

http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episode-472-max-keiser-217/

In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert ask whether or not it will ever be possible to unwind quantitative easing as the parallel universe it has created sucks out interest payments and central bankers’ brain cells. They discuss the latest in a long line of market rigging - this time the traders who allegedly rigged QE.  In the second half, Max talks to Pete Comley, author of Inflation Tax, about inflation, how government regulated prices are rising the fastest, and the pound sterling’s century-long decline. Comley also asks where are the protests in the UK against the 11 percent theft of savings by quantitative easing?

Max Kaiser +1

Another thing that people don't seem to understand is that QE is a very effective way to tax the population without them realising it, they don't have to be sent a bill or made aware of it at all.

Let's take the example of the UK economy, for no other reason than that's where I live.  Suppose the real total wealth of the country and the total amount of Sterling in existence is £1trillion, and that it's divided equally between the government and us the long suffering population.  Next the government prints another £1trillion of fiat and keeps it.  There hasn't been another £1trillion of wealth generated to justify that so the only thing that can happen is for the value of Sterling to halve.  Now two things have happened, the first is that rather than having £500,000,000,000 of wealth the population only have half of that, they might have the same amount of bank notes but they can only buy half as much with them.  The government has £1,500,000,000,000 in bank notes now, they too may only have half the value they did but they've effectively arranged it so that rather than the government and the people having a 50:50 share in the unchanged real total wealth of the country it's now 75:25, and nobody has noticed.  Obviously these are fictitious numbers but that's not the point.

[crumbs]

...It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.

I just wonder if the market can *still* do its thing without "monetary injections."  It hasn't lived a"natural" lifestyle for so long, shooting meth to wake up, dope to get through the day & horse tranqs to fall asleep -- i doubt it could get clean without barfing all over the place, throwing temper tantrums & cleaning out my wallet for "just one more fix."  What if the best we could look forward to is a series of methadone clinics, AA meetings & ugly relapses?  "If you gonna be like this, might as well get back on the stuff, Lee."

The economy is a swarm of entities. You can talk about it like it was one organism, which is true to an extent, but on the other hand if parts of that swarm fail, it doesn't mean the whole thing dies.

If you use the swarm ro model economy, i suppose you're right, though the swarm doesn't begin to imply the interconnectedness of real economy.  More like a complex ecosystem, taking millennia to emerge & something as inconsequential as a breeding pair of ship's rats to destroy.  Oh, the rats die off too once the snacks are gone  

Parts of the economy will die a horrible death and/or suffer severe withdrawal symptoms. Guess which parts: the ineffective ones that had been regularly injected before. The party will be over for those guys, their confidence dwindling and being replaced by suicidal wishes and hate. Some will come around, though.

Possibly.  Most likely not, though.  "Artificial" [quotes intentional] economy was needed to support "artificial" everything -- population, for one.  There's plenty of talk about unsustainability of economy predicated on exponential growth, but that's the required *minimum* to keep up with exponential population growth.  I'm sticking with the junky model.

Other parts of the economy that had previously been suppressed and kept from fair market access are going to thrive and steal the show of the fake boys on coke in their unreasonably big cars.

Which parts are you thinking of?

The cancer will die off.

If it's cancer, it metastasized a long time ago -- chemo will kill the patient

[Its About Sharing]

...It's about having good money. And by good I mean: scarce, easily transferrable, fungible, easily auditable, accessible to anyone, ownable (deny access to others). Once you have that the economy (= the people) will thrive and prosper because the market can do its thing without money injections bloating it up in various places and distorting price signals.

I just wonder if the market can *still* do its thing without "monetary injections."  It hasn't lived a"natural" lifestyle for so long, shooting meth to wake up, dope to get through the day & horse tranqs to fall asleep -- i doubt it could get clean without barfing all over the place, throwing temper tantrums & cleaning out my wallet for "just one more fix."  What if the best we could look forward to is a series of methadone clinics, AA meetings & ugly relapses?  "If you gonna be like this, might as well get back on the stuff, Lee."

You have to watch some of Max Keisser regarding "quantitative easing". The short answer "they" we can't stop. The debt has grown so large and once we slow the printing of money we can no longer pay for the debt as the interest rates will move up. QE will continue until things pop. (We have a bond bubble as well.) Interest rates are rising anyway. Seriously, it is going to get interesting, very interesting. Talk about the worlds largest social experiment, I say the money one ends as the others have (Boom).

Speaking of which, here is his latest episode - A GREAT ONE - on... Quantitative Easing. Coincidence?
(Worth 2 watches.)

http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episode-472-max-keiser-217/

In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert ask whether or not it will ever be possible to unwind quantitative easing as the parallel universe it has created sucks out interest payments and central bankers’ brain cells. They discuss the latest in a long line of market rigging - this time the traders who allegedly rigged QE.  In the second half, Max talks to Pete Comley, author of Inflation Tax, about inflation, how government regulated prices are rising the fastest, and the pound sterling’s century-long decline. Comley also asks where are the protests in the UK against the 11 percent theft of savings by quantitative easing?

Max Kaiser +1

Another thing that people don't seem to understand is that QE is a very effective way to tax the population without them realising it, they don't have to be sent a bill or made aware of it at all.

Let's take the example of the UK economy, for no other reason than that's where I live.  Suppose the real total wealth of the country and the total amount of Sterling in existence is £1trillion, and that it's divided equally between the government and us the long suffering population.  Next the government prints another £1trillion of fiat and keeps it.  There hasn't been another £1trillion of wealth generated to justify that so the only thing that can happen is for the value of Sterling to halve.  Now two things have happened, the first is that rather than having £500,000,000 of wealth the population only have half of that, they might have the same amount of bank notes but they can only buy half as much with them.  The government has £1,500,000,000 in bank notes now, they too may only have half the value they did but they've effectively arranged it so that rather than the government and the people having a 50:50 share in the unchanged real total wealth of the country it's now 75:25, and nobody has noticed.  Obviously these are fictitious numbers but that's not the point.

Yeah and I often wondered why the inflation rate wasn't rocketing (though it is still going up.) So obvious to me now that the Big banks are not sharing in their coming into money. Max talks about this in this and other episodes. And the terrible part (or a terrible part) is that they are causing the price of assets (stocks, homes in some cases and basically where ever they put their money) to artificially go up in their "asset investing" program (The rich get richer and we are making the payments). Instead of we the people getting the money, they are keeping the vast majority in their circles. But what happens when they stop this? Those asset prices will plummet and we are getting there. (Must listen to the show I linked.)

[wachtwoord]

Protect yourself and hold as little fiat as you can safely get away with.

[MickeyT2008]

The governments have made a trap for themselves by bailing out the banks, the banks have them over a barrel and they have no way out now.  If they stop QE and bank bailouts then the banks pull the rug out from under the economy and it collapses.  If they don't stop QE and bailouts then the population become so impoverished, desperate and angry that the result will eventually be a huge angry mob turning up at Parliament to lynch the lot of them.

What the governments should have done was to seize all the assets of the failing banks, jail those responsible and then compensate the people who had money in the banks.  That of course would have been quite a blow to the economy but at least the total cost would have been finite, and possible to pay off and recover from eventually.  Instead because the government and the banks are the same thing they chose the route of bailing out the banks, now they're desperately scrabbling for money to fill this bottomless money pit, a task that is impossible.  The way that they've responded to this situation means that whatever they do the economy is now doomed.