Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[derpinheimer]

Check this out (Gox's answer to Coinlab's suit - TL;DR: they are saying they are short of an additional $5M, NOT including Dwolla and DHS):

Oh, so this is completely separate from dwolla, huh. $5m here $3m dwolla $14m bids lol

http://numismatics.pwnz.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/MtGox-Answer.pdf

Defendants are informed and believe that in March and April, 2013 MtGox customers, at the
suggestion of CoinLab, deposited $12,788,701.08 into one or more CoinLab bank accounts;
CoinLab then caused the amount of such funds to be credited to such customers' MtGox
accounts but CoinLab did not transfer the actual funds into the MtGox bank account. As a
result, such customers' MtGox account reflected a higher amount of currency funds available
to such customers than were actually in the MtGox bank account. In April, 2013, and upon
the demand of MtGox, CoinLab transferred a portion of those amounts, $ 7,473,490.29, to the
MtGox bank account, leaving a balance of approximately $ 5,315,210.79 to be transferred to
the MtGox account and which is being wrongfully held by CoinLab.

I read this as VERY BAD news. "Overwhelming" the biggest bank in Japan my ass... The +$14M on Gox's order book, plus whatever is "dormant" or in the withdrawal queue, and therefore all our Gox balances..... Are backed only by thin air.

Let me get this straight. Mt.Gox was stiffed $5 million by coinlab and another $5 million by the US gov.. That's over $10 million of missing funds on Mt.Gox.

Oh, so this is completely separate from dwolla, huh. $5m here $3m dwolla $14m bids lol

[hmmmstrange]

....funds that are nevertheless credited on our Gox balances.

Mt.Gox == fulltilt

[solex]

140$ wall is being eaten by little fishes. Trend: down.

TO THE SINGLE DIGITS!

If you want single digits then you better go and load up with Litecoin because you are wasting your time here.

[lucas.sev]

Guys on topic: will this wall fall?

nomnomnom

[Adrian-x]

....funds that are nevertheless credited on our Gox balances.

This remind me of the run on the Banks in 1893.

But it's different this time. We have a ledger in the cloud.

[Walsoraj]

Gox missing funds is bullish. Expect panic buys from those who still have fiat/"credit" in their account.

Perhaps the whale trades these past few weeks were the panic buys? Wouldn't surprise me if most of the large trades are based on info not available to the public.

[derpinheimer]

Gox missing funds is bullish. Expect panic buys from those who still have fiat/"credit" in their account.

Perhaps the whale trades these past few weeks were the panic buys? Wouldn't surprise me if most of the large trades are based on info not available to the public.

Yup. I'm in fiat and  won't buy now; I'll wait for the nose   dive... Although it might be a 90% drop from $1000

[01BTC10]

....funds that are nevertheless credited on our Gox balances.

Mt.Gox == fulltilt

More like UB if they sink. Who is going to buy them back like PS did with FT?

[ChartBuddy]

[Walsoraj]

Gox missing funds is bullish. Expect panic buys from those who still have fiat/"credit" in their account.

Perhaps the whale trades these past few weeks were the panic buys? Wouldn't surprise me if most of the large trades are based on info not available to the public.

Yup. I'm in fiat and  won't buy now; I'll wait for the nose   dive... Although it might be a 90% drop from $1000

Haha. I think top is prob in the 180-250 range. But not if the whales already got out.

Like you, I'm not buying now even tho I expect panic buys. It will be too difficult to call the top on this one and I expect nose dive down down down. Calling the top will mean selling w/ massive slippage. So risky.

[gmannn]

Gox missing funds is bullish. Expect panic buys from those who still have fiat/"credit" in their account.

Perhaps the whale trades these past few weeks were the panic buys? Wouldn't surprise me if most of the large trades are based on info not available to the public.

Yup. I'm in fiat and  won't buy now; I'll wait for the nose   dive... Although it might be a 90% drop from $1000

Aren't you afraid of holding the fiat bag when gox finally implodes?  There won't be anyone willing to sell their BTC for goxbux once the news is official.

[RationalSpeculator]

Gox missing funds is bullish. Expect panic buys from those who still have fiat/"credit" in their account.

Perhaps the whale trades these past few weeks were the panic buys? Wouldn't surprise me if most of the large trades are based on info not available to the public.

Yup. I'm in fiat and  won't buy now; I'll wait for the nose   dive... Although it might be a 90% drop from $1000

Aren't you afraid of holding the fiat bag when gox finally implodes?  There won't be anyone willing to sell their BTC for goxbux once the news is official.

It does not make sense that there will be a nosedive on gox - if - they end up failing. Then news will get worse and worse and price will go up due to people wanting out and less and less coins offered. One day trading will be halted abruptly and liquidation of company started.

Other exchanges will disconnect more and more from mtgox price as they have different supply and demand realities. They will start taking the lead in price swings, as bitstamp recently showed already. A collapsing price at bitstamp may be followed by gox but to a much lesser extent as gox buyers will be willing to pay 50% over actual value, as they correctly calculate they will lose likely more if gox fails.

[marcelus]

Emphasized version (just loving the drama):

Defendants are informed and believe that in March and April, 2013 MtGox customers, at the
suggestion of CoinLab, deposited $12,788,701.08 into one or more CoinLab bank accounts;
CoinLab then caused the amount of such funds to be credited to such customers' MtGox
accounts but CoinLab did not transfer the actual funds into the MtGox bank account. As a
result, such customers' MtGox account reflected a higher amount of currency funds available
to such customers than were actually in the MtGox bank account. In April, 2013, and upon
the demand of MtGox, CoinLab transferred a portion of those amounts, $ 7,473,490.29, to the
MtGox bank account, leaving a balance of approximately $ 5,315,210.79 to be transferred to
the MtGox account and which is being wrongfully held by CoinLab.

The funniest part is that the main thrust of their defence; that Coinlab failed to register as a money transmitter, is of course the reason Gox had $5m seized by the US gov. So whether or not, their defence is legally successful, it is most definitely not the real reason they reneged on their contractual obligations to Coinlab.

[Walsoraj]

Emphasized version (just loving the drama):

Defendants are informed and believe that in March and April, 2013 MtGox customers, at the
suggestion of CoinLab, deposited $12,788,701.08 into one or more CoinLab bank accounts;
CoinLab then caused the amount of such funds to be credited to such customers' MtGox
accounts but CoinLab did not transfer the actual funds into the MtGox bank account. As a
result, such customers' MtGox account reflected a higher amount of currency funds available
to such customers than were actually in the MtGox bank account. In April, 2013, and upon
the demand of MtGox, CoinLab transferred a portion of those amounts, $ 7,473,490.29, to the
MtGox bank account, leaving a balance of approximately $ 5,315,210.79 to be transferred to
the MtGox account and which is being wrongfully held by CoinLab.

The funniest part is that the main thrust of their defence; that Coinlab failed to register as a money transmitter, is of course the reason Gox had $5m seized by the US gov. So whether or not, their defence is legally successful, it is most definitely not the real reason they reneged on their contractual obligations to Coinlab.

I don't follow you. Coinlab should have registered by the end of March. Gox's funds were seized later, and presumably would not have been if Coinlab fulfilled its end of the deal.

[marcelus]

Emphasized version (just loving the drama):

Defendants are informed and believe that in March and April, 2013 MtGox customers, at the
suggestion of CoinLab, deposited $12,788,701.08 into one or more CoinLab bank accounts;
CoinLab then caused the amount of such funds to be credited to such customers' MtGox
accounts but CoinLab did not transfer the actual funds into the MtGox bank account. As a
result, such customers' MtGox account reflected a higher amount of currency funds available
to such customers than were actually in the MtGox bank account. In April, 2013, and upon
the demand of MtGox, CoinLab transferred a portion of those amounts, $ 7,473,490.29, to the
MtGox bank account, leaving a balance of approximately $ 5,315,210.79 to be transferred to
the MtGox account and which is being wrongfully held by CoinLab.

The funniest part is that the main thrust of their defence; that Coinlab failed to register as a money transmitter, is of course the reason Gox had $5m seized by the US gov. So whether or not, their defence is legally successful, it is most definitely not the real reason they reneged on their contractual obligations to Coinlab.

I don't follow you. Coinlab should have registered by the end of March. Gox's funds were seized later, and presumably would not have been if Coinlab fulfilled its end of the deal.

Before the contract and after its collapse, Gox was trading in the US without the correct regulatory compliance. It's only if they actually signed their US customers over to Coinlab whether if becomes and issue if Coinlab is regulatory compliant. Since they never did this and continued to trade without a license themselves, their defence, is for me, disingenous. Or am I missing something?

Either way, I think in terms of their legal contractual obligations, this court case is actually looking very good for Gox.

[ChartBuddy]

[derpinheimer]

Gox missing funds is bullish. Expect panic buys from those who still have fiat/"credit" in their account.

Perhaps the whale trades these past few weeks were the panic buys? Wouldn't surprise me if most of the large trades are based on info not available to the public.

Yup. I'm in fiat and  won't buy now; I'll wait for the nose   dive... Although it might be a 90% drop from $1000

Aren't you afraid of holding the fiat bag when gox finally implodes?  There won't be anyone willing to sell their BTC for goxbux once the news is official.

It does not make sense that there will be a nosedive on gox - if - they end up failing. Then news will get worse and worse and price will go up due to people wanting out and less and less coins offered. One day trading will be halted abruptly and liquidation of company started.

Other exchanges will disconnect more and more from mtgox price as they have different supply and demand realities. They will start taking the lead in price swings, as bitstamp recently showed already. A collapsing price at bitstamp may be followed by gox but to a much lesser extent as gox buyers will be willing to pay 50% over actual value, as they correctly calculate they will lose likely more if gox fails.

^^This

How long until Gox halts withdrawal of coins ?

I dont imagine gox failing. They make tons of money in fees. Although, I suppose, it is possible. If Gox does implode, then most coins should have been sold on other exchanges, causing a dive elsewhere. Those on Gox of course, well, we're fucked :/

[marcelus]

I dont imagine gox failing. They make tons of money in fees. Although, I suppose, it is possible. If Gox does implode, then most coins should have been sold on other exchanges, causing a dive elsewhere. Those on Gox of course, well, we're fucked :/

Gox isn't going anywhere. Having now properly read over their counter claim, it's clear they have Coinlab by the balls. When this court case is done and dusted and there'll be a big payout coming Gox's way.

[NewLiberty]

I dont imagine gox failing. They make tons of money in fees. Although, I suppose, it is possible. If Gox does implode, then most coins should have been sold on other exchanges, causing a dive elsewhere. Those on Gox of course, well, we're fucked :/

Gox isn't going anywhere. Having now properly read over their counter claim, it's clear they have Coinlab by the balls. When this court case is done and dusted and there'll be a big payout coming Gox's way.

Getting a judgement is one thing, collecting it is quite another.

[prophetx]

I dont imagine gox failing. They make tons of money in fees. Although, I suppose, it is possible. If Gox does implode, then most coins should have been sold on other exchanges, causing a dive elsewhere. Those on Gox of course, well, we're fucked :/

Gox isn't going anywhere. Having now properly read over their counter claim, it's clear they have Coinlab by the balls. When this court case is done and dusted and there'll be a big payout coming Gox's way.

Getting a judgement is one thing, collecting it is quite another.

yup... coinlab has no money other than some cash from Draper... they will just go BK...