Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[gandhibt]

Listen, last thing I'm going to say regarding the validity of the phone call. For those who doubt me I am more than willing to have the phone call verified by any trustworthy hero member.

To be honest I was so taken back by the call I didn't even get to ask the questions like, how likely is this, how close are you, etc.

Call him again! =)

Haha. I want to really really bad! I think I might. I'm just going to say I was so taken back by the call I didn't get to ask the important questions. I want a hero member conferenced in and recording to verify!

That is an marvelous idea, do it!

[Nightowlace]

Listen, last thing I'm going to say regarding the validity of the phone call. For those who doubt me I am more than willing to have the phone call verified by any trustworthy hero member.

To be honest I was so taken back by the call I didn't even get to ask the questions like, how likely is this, how close are you, etc.

Call him again! =)

Haha. I want to really really bad! I think I might. I'm just going to say I was so taken back by the call I didn't get to ask the important questions. I want a hero member conferenced in and recording to verify!

That is an marvelous idea, do it!

I'm willing, who will get on the phone with me and record & verify?

[Nightowlace]

Listen, last thing I'm going to say regarding the validity of the phone call. For those who doubt me I am more than willing to have the phone call verified by any trustworthy hero member.

To be honest I was so taken back by the call I didn't even get to ask the questions like, how likely is this, how close are you, etc.

Call him again! =)

Haha. I want to really really bad! I think I might. I'm just going to say I was so taken back by the call I didn't get to ask the important questions. I want a hero member conferenced in and recording to verify!

That is an marvelous idea, do it!

I'm willing, who will get on the phone with me and record & verify?

And what questions would we like to see asked?

[crazy_rabbit]

I find it weird that the blog entry is missing comment section below the post.

different facebook "share" button.
no date.
the images are not hosted on their site.

I did not find this blog entry(still looking for it) after checking some of their older "deals blog" posts.


Also, I can still remember the fake blog @ CNN Politics Blog about an order by a judge to seize the assets of   BTC-e.

Yep. That's my skepticism as well. Note that the youtube video is posted by some random name, and also no comments. I dunno, we will get there guys- just we don't need to fake it.

[crazy_rabbit]

I think it's fake, unfortunately.

This link shows the same page:

http://edccdn.com/bitcoin/

[FNG]

I think it's fake, unfortunately.

This link shows the same page:

http://edccdn.com/bitcoin/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1lruid/so_did_we_figure_out_why_ebay_possibly_made_this/cc24oke

[holysmokes]

maybe someone got desperate after the 10 dollar dip? i don't know. i can only speculate.

[Rampion]

Nah. Bitcoin is too Communist for eBay.

Tell that to the libertarians here

It seems very capitalistic to me.  As with any other currency, there's a small number of people with huge stashes ruining things for everyone else, such as by dirty tricks like dumping about 25000BTC onto a rising market last night, and manipulating the price with huge ask/bid walls.

Its not communist or capitalist - its just a currency. It is for sure a demon for Keynesianists, which usually label themselves as "left wing economists", as the ability to inflate the currency is a must for the Keynesianist "stimulus strategy" in crisis times, which is a central point of Keynesianism.

That said, a communist government would never accept a national currency they cannot fully control - on the contrary, libertarian capitalists or more generially austrian echonomy followers would embrace it with joy.

Anyhow, I can see anarchists/communists/anti-capitalists supporting Bitcoin just because is a "bank killer", and right now the financial elites are the ones ruling the world, so we could say that Bitcoin could turn upside down the current status quo, which might be a desiderable intermediate step for communists/anarchists/anti-capitalists in general. Bitcoin would never been the end goal for anti-capitalists, but it could be a first step to radically change the power balances in the world.

Who owns Bitcoin?

It is Anarcho Syndicalist.

Communism simply means that workers control the means of production, instead of a State (Nationalism), or rentiers (Capitalism).

Communism isn't a dirty word. Get over it.

And Keynsian economics just means that you have a bigger toolbox, it does not preclude other economic systems.

Sorry, but no.

Anarcho-syndicalism = workers control the means of production. You work in a factory - you control directly the production process, you participate directly in the decision making and you OWN the fruit of your labour.

Communism = social ownership of means of production. It might seem similar, but its not at all - as a worker you do not "own" the means of production nor the fruits of your labour in a communist system, the "society" does, which basically means that the State owns them. That's why Bakunin said communism was going to be "the biggest lie of the Century", and it even said communism was just a form of "state capitalism", as the worker did not control the means of production nor the fruit of his labour. An exception would be Pannekoek's council communism, which was totally opposed to russian bolshevism, and was in many ways much closer to Kropotkin's and Bakunnin's anarcho-communism.

And again: Bitcoin is just a currency, and it has no political sign - but saying is "anarcho-syndicalist" is simply wrong. Most of original anarchists (or "left" anarchists, as some would say, especially in the US) wouldn't even use money as we know it (an exception would be Proudhon's mutualism), in fact during the most relevant anarcho-syndicalist experience in history (Aragón, Spain: 1930-1938) the "Peseta" of the Spanish Republica was not used at all. They had no currency nor legal tender, they just seldomly issued their own "money" which were just vouchers or IOU's with very specific uses. And BTW: anarcho-syndicalism is just a WAY or STRATEGY to reach "anarchy", or "anarcho-communism" or "libertarian communism", as many US folks like to name them to distinguish them from their very own, ill-named "anarcho-capitalism")

Fascinating experience BTW (the one in Aragón), it was a pity that both the spanish fascists and the KPSS (Russian communists) joined forced to crush what could have been one of the most relevant and game-changing revolutions in Europe's history.

Sorry of the OT, folks.

[Richy_T]

Going back to the "mike from ebay" thing: nightowlace story didn't seem a lie to me, I was just amazed that he did not ask more info (last name and position) to the guy making the questions - now I see he did.

Nevertheless, I still cannot understand how Paypal/Ebay could be seriously thinking about integrating Bitcoin - it's totally against their interests. Come on: irreversible transfers, decentralized currency, pseudoanonymity? It's a Paypal antagonist, I really cannot see how they could support BTC, it is completely opposite to their philosophy - in fact, aren't Paypal and Ebay jerking around with people dealing with BTC?

As I said when I saw the CEO of Paypal speaking about BTC: I'm very sure those guys are looking closely to BTC, but IMO they would develop their own proprietary crypto, they wouldn't embrace BTC as it is.

Paypal do deal with multiple currencies so it's not totally out of line. There are a few shortcomings of Bitcoin (Not major or insurmountable in my opinion) that a Paypal-like service could smooth over. Most notably, as a (for the most part) trusted financial part of the purchase chain, Paypal could enter the role of an escrow service, possibly with pre-funded accounts.

[cedivad]

Anyway, i've haven't been so much bullish since April.

[Rampion]

Nah. Bitcoin is too Communist for eBay.

Tell that to the libertarians here

It seems very capitalistic to me.  As with any other currency, there's a small number of people with huge stashes ruining things for everyone else, such as by dirty tricks like dumping about 25000BTC onto a rising market last night, and manipulating the price with huge ask/bid walls.

Its not communist or capitalist - its just a currency. It is for sure a demon for Keynesianists, which usually label themselves as "left wing economists", as the ability to inflate the currency is a must for the Keynesianist "stimulus strategy" in crisis times, which is a central point of Keynesianism.

That said, a communist government would never accept a national currency they cannot fully control - on the contrary, libertarian capitalists or more generially austrian echonomy followers would embrace it with joy.

Anyhow, I can see anarchists/communists/anti-capitalists supporting Bitcoin just because is a "bank killer", and right now the financial elites are the ones ruling the world, so we could say that Bitcoin could turn upside down the current status quo, which might be a desiderable intermediate step for communists/anarchists/anti-capitalists in general. Bitcoin would never been the end goal for anti-capitalists, but it could be a first step to radically change the power balances in the world.

Who owns Bitcoin?

It is Anarcho Syndicalist.

Communism simply means that workers control the means of production, instead of a State (Nationalism), or rentiers (Capitalism).

Communism isn't a dirty word. Get over it.

And Keynsian economics just means that you have a bigger toolbox, it does not preclude other economic systems.

Sorry, but no.

Anarcho-syndicalism = workers control the means of production. You work in a factory - you control directly the production process, you participate directly in the decision making and you OWN the fruit of your labour.

Communism = social ownership of means of production. It might seem similar, but its not at all - as a worker you do not "own" the means of production nor the fruits of your labour in a communist system, the "society" does, which basically means that the State owns them. That's why Bakunin said communism was going to be "the biggest lie of the Century", and it even said communism was just a form of "state capitalism", as the worker did not control the means of production nor the fruit of his labour. An exception would be Pannekoek's council communism, which was totally opposed to russian bolshevism, and was in many ways much closer to Kropotkin's anarcho-communism.

And again: Bitcoin is just a currency, and it has no political sign - but saying is "anarcho-syndicalist" is simply wrong. Most of original anarchists (or "left" anarchists, as some would say, especially in the US) wouldn't even use money as we know it (an exception would be Proudhon's mutualism), in fact during the most relevant anarcho-syndicalist experience in history (Aragón, Spain: 1930-1938) the "Peseta" of the Spanish Republica was not used at all. They had no currency nor legal tender, they just seldomly issued their own "money" which were just vouchers or IOU's with very specific uses.

Fascinating experience BTW, it was a pity that both the spanish fascists and the KPSS (Russian communists) joined forced to crush what could have been one of the most relevant and game-changing revolutions in Europe's history.

Sorry of the OT, folks.

You can find those definitions variously applied by your choice of authority. It does not detract from my point, which is that eBay has no intention of empowering any sort of democratic, actually PtoP, technology without the ability to insert their very heavy hand. Their recent activity with Mailpile is just one indication of this.

My choice of authorities regarding anarchism and communism are Marx, Engels, Pannaekok, Trotsky, Lenin, Gramsci, Bakunin, Proudhon, Kropotkin, Rudolf Rocker, Diego Abad de Santillana and a long etcetera, and they all agree on the definitions. Oh, and they also agree on being anti-capitalists... And finally, they also agree that for a total liberation money needs to cease to exist. For bolshevics, that would happen in the "final" stage of the revolution (anarchy or libertarian communism). For anarchists, from the very first moment. That's why stating that a currency (BTC) is "communist" or "anarcho-syndicalist" (which BTW is just a strategy to reach anarcho-collectivism) is quite strange.

[dexX7]

When I called back Mike was very nice. He stated that I have sold a lot of Bitcoin on eBay and wanted to know my experience with it and was it positive.

(...)

He mentioned that they were considering policy changes to allow it to be sold but he stated that "we can't ask our user to register with Fincen" I agreed its too costly.

Michael Carson's duties at Ebay (taken from his Linkedin profile):

- Responsible for developing and implementing policies to effectively manage regulatory, industry and brand risks.
- Interface with third parties, including government officials, law enforcement, trade groups and individual companies.

Sweet

This is not about Bitcoin integration, but defining a clear policy about selling and buying Bitcoin on eBay, I think.

I assume eBay is kinda liable for what is listed there. Just some brainstorming.. people sell Bitcoin on eBay -> eBay is a plattform to purchase Bitcoin -> eBay might be considered as MSB or whatever. << I'm sure it's not like this at all, but ... I hope you get the point.

Anyway, this is still great news. People working at eBay are infected with the Bitcoin idea. Today it's about policies, tomorrow might be about integration.

[herzmeister]

Sorry, but no.

Anarcho-syndicalism = workers control the means of production. You work in a factory - you control directly the production process, you participate directly in the decision making and you OWN the fruit of your labour.

Communism = social ownership of means of production. It might seem similar, but its not at all - as a worker you do not "own" the means of production nor the fruits of your labour in a communist system, the "society" does, which basically means that the State owns them. That's why Bakunin said communism was going to be "the biggest lie of the Century", and it even said communism was just a form of "state capitalism", as the worker did not control the means of production nor the fruit of his labour. An exception would be Pannekoek's council communism, which was totally opposed to russian bolshevism, and was in many ways much closer to Kropotkin's and Bakunnin's anarcho-communism.

And again: Bitcoin is just a currency, and it has no political sign - but saying is "anarcho-syndicalist" is simply wrong. Most of original anarchists (or "left" anarchists, as some would say, especially in the US) wouldn't even use money as we know it (an exception would be Proudhon's mutualism), in fact during the most relevant anarcho-syndicalist experience in history (Aragón, Spain: 1930-1938) the "Peseta" of the Spanish Republica was not used at all. They had no currency nor legal tender, they just seldomly issued their own "money" which were just vouchers or IOU's with very specific uses. And BTW: anarcho-syndicalism is just a WAY or STRATEGY to reach "anarchy", or "anarcho-communism" or "libertarian communism", as many US folks like to name them to distinguish them from their very own, ill-named "anarcho-capitalism")

Fascinating experience BTW (the one in Aragón), it was a pity that both the spanish fascists and the KPSS (Russian communists) joined forced to crush what could have been one of the most relevant and game-changing revolutions in Europe's history.

Sorry of the OT, folks.

quite exactly, and fuck OT, everyone must have watched this at least once:


Living Utopia (The Anarchists & The Spanish Revolution)

[prophetx]

apparently btce is now accepting USA wires... which means that btce and bitstamp price should converge soon

[Walsoraj]

Not that it matters, but to be clear, I am a Critical Marxist.

Which means I don't play fair. I am a pretentious and snobby asshole.

fixed, comrade.

[Rampion]

Not that it matters, but to be clear, I am a Critical Marxist.

Which means I don't play fair.

Taking into account that, among other many things, the very meaning of the world capitalism (=private ownership of means of production) was defined by Marx in "The Capital", its simply a shame that almost nobody under 50 has read that work. You really cannot understand the history of the last 200 years without having read it.

[ChartBuddy]

[rampantparanoia]

for you folks that doubted the ebay thing:

http://deals.ebay.com/blog/whats-the-deal-with-bitcoins-anyway/

[thezerg]

I think it's fake, unfortunately.

This link shows the same page:

http://edccdn.com/bitcoin/

I don't know "edccdn" could easily be "Ebay Deals Co, Content Delivery Network".  Registered godaddy, located in usa.

And on the site, we also have:
http://edccdn.com/tabletdebate/
http://www.edccdn.com/thanksgiving/gt/gourmetthanksgiving.html
http://www.edccdn.com/craftyholiday/

Its just too eclectic -- just like it would be if it was a dumping ground for media associated with a blog.  But of course this is just a blog -- it is implicitly the opinion of the blog author and not really representative.  So I don't think its fake (in the sense that it won't get anyone fired at ebay deals) I just think its probably just a semi-internal drop-box type site.  And best case, it just says that a few people in a very large company are interested in bitcoin.

Anyway, I'd join a conf call with this guy, but we should come up with some reasonable questions... Obviously he's not going to know (or if he did would not tell us) ebay/paypal's complete bitcoin rollout strategy and timeline. :-)  But at the same time, maybe I'm not the right guy b/c its not like I am running a bitcoin startup or something...

[Rampion]

quite exactly, and fuck OT, everyone must have watched this at least once:


Living Utopia (The Anarchists & The Spanish Revolution)

Nice doc. indeed, I've watched it at least 5 times. I strongly recommend you the following book by the british historian Kelsey Graham:

Anarchosyndicalism, Libertarian Communism and the State: The CNT in Zaragoza and Aragon, 1930-1937

It's the deepest and more precise account of what happened in Aragón during the anarchist revolution, and it's written in that meticulous, thorough, cold and objective style that only British historians can achieve