Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Walsoraj]

24hr volume on Gox under 6,000. lol.

Turbo-ultra-mega-bulls:

I'm interested in your tinfoil hat theories about the laughably low volume on weekends and/or other days when Gox is not crediting accounts with deposited fiat. Specifically, please explain in detail why/how this volume indicates genuine demand to buy bitcoins at these prices.

Thanks in advance.

Are you still butt hurt that you didn't load up in the drop to 60's-70's?

Hope you don't miss you're chance now? Might get lucky and wait until $110 but not likely

Check my post history. I was ultra-mega bullish around the lows.

[telemaco]

Another Snowden leak today. This one regards NSA's ability to hack into almost all, if not all, smartphones. Like the last leak, this one suggests the NSA's decryption power is much greater than we realize.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/privacy-scandal-nsa-can-spy-on-smart-phone-data-a-920971.html

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/7/4706018/nsa-reportedly-can-access-secure-blackberry-email-tap-other

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/09/08/links-08-sept-the-weekends-nsa-revelations/

That's not any different than what Bruce Schneier has been telling us for decades now.

Not news to those who have been paying attention.

I was obviously using "we" to refer to general public, YOU PRETENTIOUS COMMIE!!

http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg12325.html

What is your point? To any reasonable person, this was all speculative tin-foil hat stuff until Snowden.

You have a fetish for polluting my posts.

my posts too. Seems being an oracle gives the ability to discern between the thousand of "rat in coke can" schemes around the world and "knowing" like your own hand what is really happening/true/fact and what are just rumours/whispers.

What can I say?

I am a centre of pestilence.

Not true, you have absolutely useful opinions and threads that simply one need to read. Just a lower a bit the "I knew it" button when the others also talk and you will be become the greatest oracle ;-)

Cheers,

Well then, If I may knock myself down from the pinnacle of oricality, I'll keep my tinfoil hat on a bit longer...

Snowden is a tool. In my considered opinion the Snowden revelations are part of an operation to bludgeon the corporate world, along with the general public into investing resources into actual, effective IT security. The NSA has a stake in protecting their charge against rival gangs. And, although I think it is a mistake to equivocate on security to this end they are attempting to calibrate their advantage.

It might very well be the truth. Just some Sun Tzu "confuse your enemy" thinking. It would give everybody the idea that they need to increase their defenses. But thinking on the possibility that what they know it is not true and its just a bluff maybe they want to do the opposite, that is discourage everyone from even trying to avoid NSA, and stop being diligent on your own security. Most people don't know too much about computer security and even if they do, the revelations show a huge enemy to beat, so they will just surrender and say, "be it", if you use computers, then there is no privacy why i am going to follow those huge security procedures if they are already in, by hardware, at network level (IP v6), by OS, by force, by keylogger, by the very own software you use. Why lose so much time? Many people will think that and abandon themselves to the "maybe truth" that they have just won.

Also there seems to exist indeed an interest in the USA agencies to reduce the people privacy and that is one of the reasons why CIA investing companies invested in google and in facebooks (the second being a declared paradigm of antiprivacy). What was their reaction to Zimmerman PGP, their export limitations for encryption over 128 bits and many more?. They indeed want to know everything like the "Awareness" agency name suggests.

One thing is true, and this is that the computer and internet industry has received a huge kick in their balls. American companies relying on "the cloud" aswell as those relying on "security" (and probably technology manufacturers whose products won't be seen as innocent as have been seen up to now) are being seen now like pure fraud all over the world and they are loosing billions and billions on contracts. Again, some might say "I alrady knew it". I would say, you "suspected something" in the lines of the thousand of rumours around the world everywhere. But with this revelations (if true) show that they are indeed doing it.

So, did they encourage Snowden to go into the air with those documents, hurting hugely their own computer/internet industry trying to follow the path to get everybody into a higher security? Could be.
Maybe, knowing that they already controlled those companies they could have just issued some laws to encourage much more secure policies in facebook, google, etc and those would have been just followed by the users all over the world (like when lately most companies have started relying in 2-step authentication) without destroying or putting in severe risk their whole own IT industry. I think Google, Apple, Yahoo, etc are indeed not happy. They have moved from the colourful letter kindergarten logo (google) to a Stasi machine. Many have abandoned those companies for good.

I think what German officers are trying to do regarding IT security after snowden revelations, might be a good step to follow. Encourage everyone using policies all over the European Union at least not only to increase their software/internet security but do it from the very scratch, designing everything with the highest privacy levels in mind (e.g client based encryption). India is moving apart from US technology, not only they requested to have their own google servers located in their own soil so US law does not apply. They are also asking people to stop using gmail for state storage (Google Apps won't like that). New Zealand and Germany have stopped following software patents aswell (that will help).

So maybe they have managed to get higher security levels but not only in the western world, but all over the world (even China/Russia etc) and also really hitting hard their own IT industry.

I think it would be a mistake to presume that U.S. interests are so well defined by national boundaries. The business interests of U.S. chartered entities are all very well intertwined with those of other players. I would liken these kinds of operations to the 'direct action' of anti-establishment protesters. To force a dialectic outside the usual bounds of explicit process. These technocrats have a vision for what security should look like, and will steer their considerable resources to that end. You know—breaking eggs and all that.

That is entirely possible but if that is the case maybe it has not been a good move (not that technocrats know a shite of what they do).

The actual situation is like if Babylon (with the highest and more powerful walls) would have sent a letter to all the countries around.

"Look everyone, we have a catapult that can destroy every clay wall (that by the way we are the biggest sellers in the world) in 5 minutes"

Everyone (even their enemies) would first stop using clay for their walls, and second they would start using stone making things harder for Babylon catapult

Strange strategy.

[hlynur]

I think it would be a mistake to presume that U.S. interests are so well defined by national boundaries. The business interests of U.S. chartered entities are all very well intertwined with those of other players. I would liken these kinds of operations to the 'direct action' of anti-establishment protesters. To force a dialectic outside the usual bounds of explicit process. These technocrats have a vision for what security should look like, and will steer their considerable resources to that end. You know—breaking eggs and all that.

That is entirely possible but if that is the case maybe it has not been a good move (not that technocrats know a shite of what they do).

The actual situation is like if Babylon (with the highest and more powerful walls) would have sent a letter to all the countries around.

"Look everyone, we have a catapult that can destroy every clay wall (that by the way we are the biggest sellers in the world) in 5 minutes"

Everyone (even their enemies) would first stop using clay for their walls, and second they would start using stone making things harder for Babylon catapult

Strange situation.

it would be a good move if Babylon plans on selling hollow stones via sockpuppets.
nobody would see the difference.

[ChartBuddy]

[telemaco]

I think it would be a mistake to presume that U.S. interests are so well defined by national boundaries. The business interests of U.S. chartered entities are all very well intertwined with those of other players. I would liken these kinds of operations to the 'direct action' of anti-establishment protesters. To force a dialectic outside the usual bounds of explicit process. These technocrats have a vision for what security should look like, and will steer their considerable resources to that end. You know—breaking eggs and all that.

That is entirely possible but if that is the case maybe it has not been a good move (not that technocrats know a shite of what they do).

The actual situation is like if Babylon (with the highest and more powerful walls) would have sent a letter to all the countries around.

"Look everyone, we have a catapult that can destroy every clay wall (that by the way we are the biggest sellers in the world) in 5 minutes"

Everyone (even their enemies) would first stop using clay for their walls, and second they would start using stone making things harder for Babylon catapult

Strange situation.

it would be a good move if Babylon plans on selling hollow stones via sockpuppets.
nobody would see the difference.

Err.. maybe that is possible too.

I think the most plausible possibility is that politicians are just stupid/evil and are probably shorting clay to hell with Babylon federal reserve printed salt-money. ;-)
Lately would seem that bank/politician interests are far from the US American ideals of the constitution or just those of 50 years ago. They are knowingly destroying many industries (motor=detroit -> china) just for financial benefit/scam. So that politician linkage with their own country interest seem to be broken lately. You have just to read some politico.com articles to see that something fails.

[hlynur]

I think it would be a mistake to presume that U.S. interests are so well defined by national boundaries. The business interests of U.S. chartered entities are all very well intertwined with those of other players. I would liken these kinds of operations to the 'direct action' of anti-establishment protesters. To force a dialectic outside the usual bounds of explicit process. These technocrats have a vision for what security should look like, and will steer their considerable resources to that end. You know—breaking eggs and all that.

That is entirely possible but if that is the case maybe it has not been a good move (not that technocrats know a shite of what they do).

The actual situation is like if Babylon (with the highest and more powerful walls) would have sent a letter to all the countries around.

"Look everyone, we have a catapult that can destroy every clay wall (that by the way we are the biggest sellers in the world) in 5 minutes"

Everyone (even their enemies) would first stop using clay for their walls, and second they would start using stone making things harder for Babylon catapult

Strange situation.

it would be a good move if Babylon plans on selling hollow stones via sockpuppets.
nobody would see the difference.

I think this is very much the case, the tell of which was the NSA ousourcing it's silicon foundries. It is an indication of their reach. It wasn't just a cost-saving measure. They already had control of the processes.

i read a german newspaper article yesterday which stated NSA even paid money to several german software companies for implementing backdoors in their observation tools that are sold to countries in the gulf region and other dictatorships around the world.
not sure though if that was just some exaggerating journalist or if it's a fact.
After that guardian article I wouldn't be surprised

[hlynur]

it would be a good move if Babylon plans on selling hollow stones via sockpuppets.
nobody would see the difference.

Err.. maybe that is possible too.

I think the most plausible possibility is that politicians are just stupid/evil and are probably shorting clay to hell with Babylon federal reserve printed salt-money. ;-)
Lately would seem that bank/politician interests are far from the US American ideals of the constitution or just those of 50 years ago. They are knowingly destroying many industries (motor=detroit -> china) just for financial benefit/scam. So that politician linkage with their own country interest seem to be broken lately. You have just to read some politico.com articles to see that something fails.

site looks interesting, you can never have enough variation of news coverage.
is it independent or slightly "painted"?

[coolbeans94]

24hr volume on Gox under 6,000. lol.

Turbo-ultra-mega-bulls:

I'm interested in your tinfoil hat theories about the laughably low volume on weekends and/or other days when Gox is not crediting accounts with deposited fiat. Specifically, please explain in detail why/how this volume indicates genuine demand to buy bitcoins at these prices.

Thanks in advance.

It may be that people are waiting to see if the FED scales back QE or not. Might be another week or two before we see real volume. A lot of people may be sitting on the sidelines atm. In my opinion, they are not going to taper QE, it will keep on happening. So once the FED report comes out that they are going to continue QE for now, people will probably buy into bitcoins. Thoughts?

[telemaco]

it would be a good move if Babylon plans on selling hollow stones via sockpuppets.
nobody would see the difference.

Err.. maybe that is possible too.

I think the most plausible possibility is that politicians are just stupid/evil and are probably shorting clay to hell with Babylon federal reserve printed salt-money. ;-)
Lately would seem that bank/politician interests are far from the US American ideals of the constitution or just those of 50 years ago. They are knowingly destroying many industries (motor=detroit -> china) just for financial benefit/scam. So that politician linkage with their own country interest seem to be broken lately. You have just to read some politico.com articles to see that something fails.

site looks interesting, you can never have enough variation of news coverage.
is it independent or slightly "painted"?

It seems to be a nice reference for political issues.
I like this search on it about bitcoin. I try to check it out frequently -> http://find.politico.com/?reporters=&dt=all&key=bitcoin

In these articles you see what might be (for a foreigner) a rotten point of the actual american politicians and probably most modern democracies. The lobbies and the revolving doors..

They care too much (and i mean too much about lobbies and about getting their part of the cake on any issue) more than work for the country

+ In the case of bitcoin they say "the main problem of bitcoin is that it does not have lobbies" -> http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/bitcoins-washington-problem-95803.html?hp=f1
+ Also as a reflection of the "real interests" of these people you see how politico.com points at how big the real interest of politicians might be for bitcoin:

"Bitcoin campaign Donations" where they care a bit too much on how if possible are they going to get money using bitcoins donations
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/bitcoin-campaign-donations-96301.html

and

"Bitcoin and Politics: What Could Go Wrong?"
http://bloom.bg/17JYJPU


Interesting articles from a politician mind. (<---- caution advised !!)


So that was the reason i said that maybe all the NSA stuff is just about some financial/lobby interest and who cares about national interests? If all the US IT industry is going to hell, well maybe we then should short it to hell.

Look, even the russians lobby American politicians

http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/09/03/obama-putin-russia-syria-congress/2756801/

All i am talking about it is from the ignorant point of view of a foreigner so take it with caution.

[ChartBuddy]

[NewLiberty]

24hr volume on Gox under 6,000. lol.

Turbo-ultra-mega-bulls:

I'm interested in your tinfoil hat theories about the laughably low volume on weekends and/or other days when Gox is not crediting accounts with deposited fiat. Specifically, please explain in detail why/how this volume indicates genuine demand to buy bitcoins at these prices.

Thanks in advance.

It may be that people are waiting to see if the FED scales back QE or not. Might be another week or two before we see real volume. A lot of people may be sitting on the sidelines atm. In my opinion, they are not going to taper QE, it will keep on happening. So once the FED report comes out that they are going to continue QE for now, people will probably buy into bitcoins. Thoughts?

They can taper it insignificantly and save face/confidence.

[adamstgBit]

volume on gox will continue to get weaker and weaker....

[NewLiberty]

volume on gox will continue to get weaker and weaker....

Gox and the other exchanges can be used as price setters and then trades happen off-exchange, so a whale may move the price up, sell x5 coins off exchange and then drop it back.  No fiat need move off gox for that.

I've heard this rumor that Bitcoin is peer to peer.

[squidface]

Another Snowden leak today. This one regards NSA's ability to hack into almost all, if not all, smartphones. Like the last leak, this one suggests the NSA's decryption power is much greater than we realize.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/privacy-scandal-nsa-can-spy-on-smart-phone-data-a-920971.html

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/7/4706018/nsa-reportedly-can-access-secure-blackberry-email-tap-other

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/09/08/links-08-sept-the-weekends-nsa-revelations/

That's not any different than what Bruce Schneier has been telling us for decades now.

Not news to those who have been paying attention.

I was obviously using "we" to refer to general public, YOU PRETENTIOUS COMMIE!!

http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg12325.html

What is your point? To any reasonable person, this was all speculative tin-foil hat stuff until Snowden.

You have a fetish for polluting my posts.

my posts too. Seems being an oracle gives the ability to discern between the thousand of "rat in coke can" schemes around the world and "knowing" like your own hand what is really happening/true/fact and what are just rumours/whispers.

What can I say?

I am a centre of pestilence.

Not true, you have absolutely useful opinions and threads that simply one need to read. Just a lower a bit the "I knew it" button when the others also talk and you will be become the greatest oracle ;-)

Cheers,

Well then, If I may knock myself down from the pinnacle of oricality, I'll keep my tinfoil hat on a bit longer...

Snowden is a tool. In my considered opinion the Snowden revelations are part of an operation to bludgeon the corporate world, along with the general public into investing resources into actual, effective IT security. The NSA has a stake in protecting their charge against rival gangs. And, although I think it is a mistake to equivocate on security to this end they are attempting to calibrate their advantage.

It might very well be the truth. Just some Sun Tzu "confuse your enemy" thinking. It would give everybody the idea that they need to increase their defenses. But thinking on the possibility that what they know it is not true and its just a bluff maybe they want to do the opposite, that is discourage everyone from even trying to avoid NSA, and stop being diligent on your own security. Most people don't know too much about computer security and even if they do, the revelations show a huge enemy to beat, so they will just surrender and say, "be it", if you use computers, then there is no privacy why i am going to follow those huge security procedures if they are already in, by hardware, at network level (IP v6), by OS, by force, by keylogger, by the very own software you use. Why lose so much time? Many people will think that and abandon themselves to the "maybe truth" that they have just won.

Also there seems to exist indeed an interest in the USA agencies to reduce the people privacy and that is one of the reasons why CIA investing companies invested in google and in facebooks (the second being a declared paradigm of antiprivacy). What was their reaction to Zimmerman PGP, their export limitations for encryption over 128 bits and many more?. They indeed want to know everything like the "Awareness" agency name suggests.

One thing is true, and this is that the computer and internet industry has received a huge kick in their balls. American companies relying on "the cloud" aswell as those relying on "security" (and probably technology manufacturers whose products won't be seen as innocent as have been seen up to now) are being seen now like pure fraud all over the world and they are loosing billions and billions on contracts. Again, some might say "I alrady knew it". I would say, you "suspected something" in the lines of the thousand of rumours around the world everywhere. But with this revelations (if true) show that they are indeed doing it.

So, did they encourage Snowden to go into the air with those documents, hurting hugely their own computer/internet industry trying to follow the path to get everybody into a higher security? Could be.
Maybe, knowing that they already controlled those companies they could have just issued some laws to encourage much more secure policies in facebook, google, etc and those would have been just followed by the users all over the world (like when lately most companies have started relying in 2-step authentication) without destroying or putting in severe risk their whole own IT industry. I think Google, Apple, Yahoo, etc are indeed not happy. They have moved from the colourful letter kindergarten logo (google) to a Stasi machine. Many have abandoned those companies for good.

I think what German officers are trying to do regarding IT security after snowden revelations, might be a good step to follow. Encourage everyone using policies all over the European Union at least not only to increase their software/internet security but do it from the very scratch, designing everything with the highest privacy levels in mind (e.g client based encryption). India is moving apart from US technology, not only they requested to have their own google servers located in their own soil so US law does not apply. They are also asking people to stop using gmail for state storage (Google Apps won't like that). New Zealand and Germany have stopped following software patents aswell (that will help).

So maybe they have managed to get higher security levels but not only in the western world, but all over the world (even China/Russia etc) and also really hitting hard their own IT industry.

I think it would be a mistake to presume that U.S. interests are so well defined by national boundaries. The business interests of U.S. chartered entities are all very well intertwined with those of other players. I would liken these kinds of operations to the 'direct action' of anti-establishment protesters. To force a dialectic outside the usual bounds of explicit process. These technocrats have a vision for what security should look like, and will steer their considerable resources to that end. You know—breaking eggs and all that.

Ok, a bit OT now, but hold on a sec...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you arguing that, basically, NSA set up the whole Snowden thing so that corporates would freak out and tighten their security. Because NSA protects the interests of corporates?

I'm sorry, this seems a little bit tinfoilish to me.

If that was the agenda, would it not be easier to just set up some fake attacks? Let some of their smart kids loose to unleash hell on a few selected targets. Everyone would love it. There'd be joy and hilarity at NSA! And it's cheaper and less damaging to their own interests. Attacks with malicious intent are what corporates are scared of. Not the NSA. As you argue yourself, the NSA is on their side, basically. And as a lot of people have said there's that dynamic of, ok so now we know they have just about universal reach, so why do anything?

Fuck, or even just break in, and tell people, hey we broke in. This is how we did it. This is what you need to do. Set up some sort of advisory service that works with people to tighten their shit up. Whatever. Doesn't seem hard to do.

There is no way they wanted people to know about prism etc. No way. They're spooks. Spooks keep shit secret. That's an important thing. Why would they let the cat out of the bag for a such a spurious project? Even if they do have bigger stuff that we don't know anything about, which they most likely do, it's still a chump move to let everyone know about stuff as big as this. Once everyone starts tightening their shit up, it hurts their ability to do what they like doing and is their number one reason to exist, which is spying on people. The loss is bigger than the gain.

Sorry, I just don't buy it. Trying to find a shitty conspiracy behind an actual major shit's going down sort of conspiracy just seems a touch excessive.

[ChartBuddy]

[adamstgBit]

volume on gox will continue to get weaker and weaker....

Gox and the other exchanges can be used as price setters and then trades happen off-exchange, so a whale may move the price up, sell x5 coins off exchange and then drop it back.  No fiat need move off gox for that.

I've heard this rumor that Bitcoin is peer to peer.

+1
 

[ChartBuddy]

[NewLiberty]

Sorry, I just don't buy it. Trying to find a shitty conspiracy behind an actual major shit's going down sort of conspiracy just seems a touch excessive.

I'm no conspiracy buff, but wouldn't a more simple/plausible conspiracy be that they just let one off the leash, so that they could then ask congress for more budget/power/authority/surveillance?

[hlynur]

In these articles you see what might be (for a foreigner) a rotten point of the actual american politicians and probably most modern democracies. The lobbies and the revolving doors..

They care too much (and i mean too much about lobbies and about getting their part of the cake on any issue) more than work for the country

+ In the case of bitcoin they say "the main problem of bitcoin is that it does not have lobbies" -> http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/bitcoins-washington-problem-95803.html?hp=f1
+ Also as a reflection of the "real interests" of these people you see how politico.com points at how big the real interest of politicians might be for bitcoin:

"Bitcoin campaign Donations" where they care a bit too much on how if possible are they going to get money using bitcoins donations
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/bitcoin-campaign-donations-96301.html

and
http://bloom.bg/17JYJPU
Interesting articles from a politician mind. (<---- caution advised !!)


So that was the reason i said that maybe all the NSA stuff is just about some financial/lobby interest and who cares about national interests?

Look, even the russians lobby American politicians

http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/09/03/obama-putin-russia-syria-congress/2756801/

All i am talking about it is from the ignorant point of view of a foreigner so take it with caution.

yea as a foreigner i can't help to ignore these rotten points in your country, i see the same stuff in german policy.

[rant state=drunk]
assemblymen in germany still can't be sued for obvious corruption because of immunity. There are 4500 lobbyists for 650 politicians in Berlin
despite false electionpromises for tax reduction for working class
she made a lot of laws in favor of banking sector and energy industry monopols...after she had a birthday diner with Ackermann (at that time manager of biggest bank in germany)
and managers of the three biggest energy companys (a week after her election!?!!) .
she doesn't even try to hide her sockpuppet role for economy.
Feels like a german continuation of Thatcher era for nearly a decade now.
fuckin' ridiculous how she runs "politics" while society sleeps in an uninterested apathetic coma.
sorry, but sometimes it needs to come out...  
[/rant]

I'm always stunned how that style of lobbyism scales up to an alarming level in US.
e.g. Monsanto is like an attempt to get a hold of the worldwide production pipeline of vegetable stable food.
Global centralisation (= attempt at more than 51%) no matter in what market is simply for the disadvantage of the global population.
same prob with big IT companies in US, centralize use of tech and software -> centralize userbase and observe the networks

that russian lobbyists article is like the cherry on the cake ...at least they can watch their own tvchannel in the american hotel lobby  
it's always the same power game that finally peaks in the UN security council

i hope i 've performed well as an ignorant foreigner  

[MickeyT2008]

In these articles you see what might be (for a foreigner) a rotten point of the actual american politicians and probably most modern democracies. The lobbies and the revolving doors..

They care too much (and i mean too much about lobbies and about getting their part of the cake on any issue) more than work for the country

+ In the case of bitcoin they say "the main problem of bitcoin is that it does not have lobbies" -> http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/bitcoins-washington-problem-95803.html?hp=f1
+ Also as a reflection of the "real interests" of these people you see how politico.com points at how big the real interest of politicians might be for bitcoin:

"Bitcoin campaign Donations" where they care a bit too much on how if possible are they going to get money using bitcoins donations
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/bitcoin-campaign-donations-96301.html

and
http://bloom.bg/17JYJPU
Interesting articles from a politician mind. (<---- caution advised !!)


So that was the reason i said that maybe all the NSA stuff is just about some financial/lobby interest and who cares about national interests?

Look, even the russians lobby American politicians

http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/09/03/obama-putin-russia-syria-congress/2756801/

All i am talking about it is from the ignorant point of view of a foreigner so take it with caution.

yea as a foreigner i can't help to ignore these rotten points in your country, i see the same stuff in german policy.

[rant state=drunk]
assemblymen in germany still can't be sued for obvious corruption because of immunity. There are 4500 lobbyists for 650 politicians in Berlin
despite false electionpromises for tax reduction for working class
she made a lot of laws in favor of banking sector and energy industry monopols...after she had a birthday diner with Ackermann (at that time manager of biggest bank in germany)
and managers of the three biggest energy companys (a week after her election!?!!) .
she doesn't even try to hide her sockpuppet role for economy.
Feels like a german continuation of Thatcher era for nearly a decade now.
fuckin' ridiculous how she runs "politics" while society sleeps in an uninterested apathetic coma.
sorry, but sometimes it needs to come out...  
[/rant]

I'm always stunned how that style of lobbyism scales up to an alarming level in US.
e.g. Monsanto is like an attempt to get a hold of the worldwide production pipeline of vegetable stable food.
Global centralisation (= attempt at more than 51%) no matter in what market is simply for the disadvantage of the global population.
same prob with big IT companies in US, centralize use of tech and software -> centralize userbase and observe the networks

that russian lobbyists article is like the cherry on the cake ...at least they can watch their own tvchannel in the american hotel lobby  
it's always the same power game that finally peaks in the UN security council

i hope i 've performed well as an ignorant foreigner  

Everything you both wrote also describes perfectly the situation here in the UK, where we genuinely do have a continuation of the dreadful Thatcher years.

"...while society sleeps in an uninterested apathetic coma" - That's the same here too unfortunately.  Considering the way this government is deliberately impoverishing everyone whilst blatantly stuffing their pockets it should be enough to cause rioting or even civil war, unfortunately the population is too busy watching Eastenders and Big Brother on TV instead.  So long as nobody's pointing guns at them the British public will happily suck up the propaganda and accept mistreatment from corrupt governments indefinitely.

Anyway, I'll say no more about it because this could easily turn into a several page long rant if I get started.

Where's the ask/bid walls to discuss when I would like to get back on topic?  I haven't seen one for a few days now.

With no walls or trading action worth mentioning I'm going to go to bed instead, goodnight all, and try not to crash the price before I get up please, thanks.