Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[molecular]

Napster is one of the inspirations Satoshi Nakamoto drew upon in the formulation of the Bitcoin solution to the Byzantine General's problem.

In what way? Do you have a link to that?

EDIT: fixed misquote

[1713953076]

1713953076

[notme]

Guess what?  People can change their opinions.  Just because he said something in the past doesn't mean you should judge every post after it by what he said before.  You seem to be very good are remembering and pointing out peoples past mistakes as they are trying to improve themselves.

Did I miss the part where he is trying to improve himself?

I know some of you have taken it upon yourself to try and bring him around. I think its wasted effort. Bitcoin will bring people like Jorgi around by itself eventually, unless a person just truly loves to hate it.

There is not much we need to do other than spread the word, use it, invest in it and/or its eco-system. Bitcoin will do the rest.

There are people that still hate Apple. Who knows, perhaps you are one. No matter how obvious a success something is some people are going to hate it.

One of my former careers was actually motivation and personal development training. I stood in front of 1000s of people at a time and spoke. I traveled all across the country. So, I have had a fair bit of personal experience dealing with people and their motivation for "improving" themselves. My conclusion: lead by example. Most people are not going to change unless they decide deep down its something they want to do.

I'm not saying anybody needs to help anybody else with motivation or self improvement.  You clearly have a cynical view of people, which is only strengthened by you throwing the past in their face.  Of course people won't improve in such an environment as you foster.

Oh, and I do hate Apple, as a company.  As an investment, I agree they have been and may still be a good bet.  But their abuse of intellectual property laws, consumer privacy, and lack of user control of purchased hardware leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.

[JorgeStolfi]

I haven't seen that advert, but it is likely not to far away.  Next bubble for sure.

Sorry I wasn't clear: I haven't seen such ads for Bitcoin yet (except here in this thread 8-).

what would you see as the right message to be giving in regards Bitcoin?

It is hard to answer, since I am still skeptical about the chances of success - for cryptocoins in general, and for Bitcoin in particular.

One essential thing that cannot do harm is to convince more merchants to accept international payments in cryptocoins.  (I do not see any advantage for domestic payments, except perhaps for very small amounts.)

However that will require efficient, reliable and trustworthy exchanges.  It is not helpful if a merchant has to wait 3 months to get the money out of MtGOX, ou get his bitcoins snatched by the FBI.  That in turn will require regulation by the local governments, disclosure and independent auditing, just as in stock markets.

Beware that credit card charges are usually a small part of the extra cost of international purchases.  The main item, at least here in Brazil, are the customs taxes (like 40% or more depending on the item).  Not to mention the delay and hassle of having to fetch the merchandise through customs, warranty limitations, risk of item being stolen, etc..  For these reasons, I suspect that most people will continue buying imported goods in the domestic market, rather than make direct purchases.

[WeltMaster]

No more rocket fuel?

[600watt]

That's one thing that I find off-putting about Bitcoin: too much lavish marketing for a project by a bunch of young digital subversives whose goal is to steal a highly lucrative business from banks and undermine the governments' control of money flow, worldwide.

Yeah how bad of us to want to stop the monopoly on money by banks and governments. Banks should have the sole right to make and control money right? And they should be highly rewarded for it ofcourse. Yeah it's not about the 'people', banks and governments should be in full control of every aspect of our lives, that's in our best interest... the few should control the many.

the 85 richest people own as much as the 3500 million poorest. which is half the world population. a financial/economic system that creates/sustains/allows such perverse social conditions is asking for some undermining, one might argue.

this is neo-feudalism. in comparison to this, the social conditions that led to the french revolution are a socialistic wet dream.

http://world.time.com/2014/01/20/worlds-85-wealthiest-people-as-rich-as-3-5-billion-poorest/

[NewLiberty]

I haven't seen that advert, but it is likely not to far away.  Next bubble for sure.

Sorry I wasn't clear: I haven't seen such ads for Bitcoin yet (except here in this thread 8-).

what would you see as the right message to be giving in regards Bitcoin?

It is hard to answer, since I am still skeptical about the chances of success - for cryptocoins in general, and for Bitcoin in particular.

One essential thing that cannot do harm is to convince more merchants to accept international payments in cryptocoins.  (I do not see any advantage for domestic payments, except perhaps for very small amounts.)

However that will require efficient, reliable and trustworthy exchanges.  It is not helpful if a merchant has to wait 3 months to get the money out of MtGOX, ou get his bitcoins snatched by the FBI.  That in turn will require regulation by the local governments, disclosure and independent auditing, just as in stock markets.

Beware that credit card charges are usually a small part of the extra cost of international purchases.  The main item, at least here in Brazil, are the customs taxes (like 40% or more depending on the item).  Not to mention the delay and hassle of having to fetch the merchandise through customs, warranty limitations, risk of item being stolen, etc..  For these reasons, I suspect that most people will continue buying imported goods in the domestic market, rather than make direct purchases.

A pretty good answer to an admittedly hard question.
Any reasonable person ought be skeptical about the chances of success of a novel notion, especially one that is bound to be on the receiving end of significant barricades by entrenched powers.

Consider however:
From the merchant's perspective, every bitcoin transaction is beneficial.  It lowers the cost of sale vis-a-vis credit, debit, or any other form of electronic funds transfer with the exception of point-of-sale cash (which has a different set of costs in regards to physical security roughly equivalent to the digital security needs of bitcoin commerce.

The assumption of required regulations is not universally accepted.  A Caveat Emptor solution is equally viable.  There is no necessary state interest in regulation for regulation's sake.  There is no state backing, and no state liability for loss.  Bitcoin can fail and there is no political cost, so no state has a need to protect it or its users.  Consumer protection ought not be enforced where it is neither needed nor wanted.  To do otherwise creates a "protection racket".

[dgarcia]

Okay. There is Willy on the side of Gox, buying all the coins and even does not care for nothing more than buying no matter which price. That's one reason for the existing big price differences between the exchanges.

But to ask another time:

What the fuck is going on with stamp?

There are popping up sell offers for hundreds of coins, even below the price of BTC-E and Huobi, what is really abnormal. And it seems like there is no motivation to close the gap to BTC-E and Huobi.

Any idea?

[lemonte]

Best thing about Willy is that he doesn't need to eat walls..

[fonzie]

This nearly unlimited supply of asks on Stamp has been for the last 2 weeks, right now they´re putting it even lower
than btc-e /Huobi. Maybe the time is running out , and they want to sell as much as possible as long as the price on Gox and Huobi
can be kept high.

[Wekkel]

There are people that still hate Apple. Who knows, perhaps you are one. No matter how obvious a success something is some people are going to hate it.

Wait, why wouldn't I hate Apple? Apple is fairly close to the polar opposite of my hopes for the future of the technology sphere.

I do not hate Apple, I just want to own my stuff.

[virtualfaqs]

Okay. There is Willy on the side of Gox, buying all the coins and even does not care for nothing more than buying no matter which price. That's one reason for the existing big price differences between the exchanges.

But to ask another time:

What the fuck is going on with stamp?

There are popping up of sell offers for hundreds of Coins, even below the price of BTC-E and Huobi, what is really abnormal. And it seems like there is no motivation to close the gap to BTC-E and Huobi.

Any idea?

Anyone have historical trade data on Mtgox for the last month? I'm especially interested in Willy's behavior from the start of Christmas and the exact time he restarted this time around.

[MatTheCat]

Okay. There is Willy on the side of Gox, buying all the coins and even does not care for nothing more than buying no matter which price. That's one reason for the existing big price differences between the exchanges.

But to ask another time:

What the fuck is going on with stamp?

There are popping up of sell offers for hundreds of Coins, even below the price of BTC-E and Huobi, what is really abnormal. And it seems like there is no motivation to close the gap to BTC-E and Huobi.

Any idea?

Go and try doing a spot of arbitrage between Stamp and BTC-e and you will learn that unless you are a bot, there is no market gap.

Stamp is the main cashing out market. Money lands in bank accounts within a couple of days on the Stamp compared with 7-10 days on BTC-E, or 7-10 months on Mt-Gox, if you are fortunate enough to get your money at all.

Recently, BTC-E has overtaken Stamp for trading volume, but on this day of abnormally low trade volume, Stamp is outdoing BTC-e by quite some margin.

[WeltMaster]

These people selling on Stamp make me think they expect to see a repeat of June~ 2013.

I don't think this is the case, the market is looking much more optimistic/bullish than it did back then.



It's also quite amusing that proportionally, if we were at the same point in the last bubble we would be sitting over $200 right now. No cat bounce got that high then yet here we sit semi-comfortably.

[ShroomsKit]

Not much happening for btc.. Im happy as it stays like this till afther the 31th, then in february the moon.
Maybe we can meet doge there, much speed, very wow.

Welcome to my ignore list.

[ShroomsKit]

I'm trying to understand this.  Off-putting, how?

Too much effort in convincing people to invest in Bitcoin, rather than to use it.

"Look at how many millions you could make by investing  bitcoins" instead of

"Look at how many cents you could save by buying a toaster with bitcoins instead of a credit card."

A sure sign that an investment is a scam is when its TV ad shows a smug man on a luxury boat with three girls on each side.  Renting a storefront next to NYSE is not as bad, but is going in that direction, IMHO.

I suggest you get out asap and leave this evil place.

[billyjoeallen]

Just struck me that a possible explanation for the "Willy" buybot on Gox is that Magical Tux does not have enough coins to make his depositors whole. If he is indeed illegally operating as a fractional reserve, then he would need more and more coins to keep the illusion going.  With the fiat withdrawal backlog, the bot could be buying with money that is supposed to be pending for withdrawal. For all we know, he already left town. When was Mark K's last known public appearance?

[fonzie]

This bot is probably buying his own asks, to give the illusion that the exchange isn´t dead.90% of all trades on Gox are created by willy. Is the sum of total asks on Gox goin down? Where can i see those numbers?

[N12]

This bot is probably buying his own asks, to give the illusion that the exchange isn´t dead. Is the sum of total asks on Gox goin down? Where can i see those numbers?

http://www.bitcoinx.com/charts1/depth_mtgox.png
http://blockchained.com/depth_mtgox_15d.png

[adamstgBit]

This bot is probably buying his own asks, to give the illusion that the exchange isn´t dead. Is the sum of total asks on Gox goin down? Where can i see those numbers?

http://www.bitcoinx.com/charts1/depth_mtgox.png
http://blockchained.com/depth_mtgox_15d.png

I wish these charts could use stamps  data

[JimboToronto]

This bot is probably buying his own asks, to give the illusion that the exchange isn´t dead. Is the sum of total asks on Gox goin down? Where can i see those numbers?

http://www.bitcoinx.com/charts1/depth_mtgox.png
http://blockchained.com/depth_mtgox_15d.png

I wish these charts could use stamps  data

Um, weren't they talking about Gox?