Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[kkaspar]

2012 called, he wants his "bitcoin will never be a serious currency" argument back. Markets need buyers and sellers. Price discovery, liquidity, market makers, all that.

Well, what was true in 2012 is true now. Not much has changed in bitcoin structure that would make this argument obsolete.
Yes, markets need buyers, sellers etc. It's hard to understand what you're trying to say with that. It certainly isn't a counter-argument to currency needing stability and bitcoin being unable to offer it.

[Miz4r]

Ofcourse the usercount is going to become more stable in future, at some point the market is going to become saturated and the amount of new users getting into bitcoin each day will start to decrease until we reach a stable base. The usercount can't increase linearly or exponentially forever, I'm sure you would have to agree with that as well. So the increase in usercount will slow down as well as the amount of new coins and thus we are going to reach a state of equilibrium eventually. It's just a matter of time.

I don't see it like that.
The nature of bitcoin itself keeps any stability from forming when taking into account the price and the amount of users. The main thing (almost the only thing) that attracts people to bitcoin, are promises, that if they buy now, then they can sell later with a lot higher price. That creates this situation where stability is impossible because as soon as the situation becomes stable, then people won't get what they came for and they will start selling/leaving.
Bitcoin has to be either on a rise or dropping, there is no stable middle ground.
The fundamental flaw here is that a currency shouldn't be attractive as an speculative investment. It ruins the stability, and stability is the main quality of an good currency. A currency should be unattractive as an investment, so it will only be used to transfer wealth and not be considered as a source of wealth by itself.

Orly? Tell that to Forex traders who speculate in every single currency in the world.

[bassclef]

2012 called, he wants his "bitcoin will never be a serious currency" argument back. Markets need buyers and sellers. Price discovery, liquidity, market makers, all that.

Well, what was true in 2012 is true now. Not much has changed in bitcoin structure that would make this argument obsolete.
Yes, markets needs buyers, sellers etc. It's hard to understand what you're trying to say with that. It certainly isn't a counter-argument to currency needing stability and bitcoin being unable to offer it.

I assume more buyers and sellers create a more stable price. You should have been here last year when a few hundred coin dump could take the market lower significantly. We've come a ways since then.

[HairyMaclairy]

If people without Gox accounts receiving suggests it's not a Gox database hack.

[knarzo]

I knew it, am I the only one who got this ? how many of you out there who got the same e-mail ?

Here. Never open attachments if the mail is money related. I get a handful phishing mails from Paypal, BTC-E, my bank, etc every week.

Get yourself a virtualmachine to browse/mail in order to avoid trojans and other crap. Works like a charm.

[CoinDox]

Ofcourse the usercount is going to become more stable in future, at some point the market is going to become saturated and the amount of new users getting into bitcoin each day will start to decrease until we reach a stable base. The usercount can't increase linearly or exponentially forever, I'm sure you would have to agree with that as well. So the increase in usercount will slow down as well as the amount of new coins and thus we are going to reach a state of equilibrium eventually. It's just a matter of time.

I don't see it like that.
The nature of bitcoin itself keeps any stability from forming when taking into account the price and the amount of users. The main thing (almost the only thing) that attracts people to bitcoin, are promises, that if they buy now, then they can sell later with a lot higher price. That creates this situation where stability is impossible because as soon as the situation becomes stable, then people won't get what they came for and they will start selling/leaving.
Bitcoin has to be either on a rise or dropping, there is no stable middle ground.
The fundamental flaw here is that a currency shouldn't be attractive as an speculative investment. It ruins the stability, and stability is the main quality of an good currency. A currency should be unattractive as an investment, so it will only be used to transfer wealth and not be considered as a source of wealth by itself.

Orly? Tell that to Forex traders who speculate in every single currency in the world.

Not that I disagree with you, but comparing BTC trading to the FX market is silly, even if as just a rebuttal to Miz4's last line.

[ChrisML]

There's $23m+ on stamp's order book. where did that come from? i find it hard to believe all the people that got goxed that want to buy coins again sent their fiat to stamp so quickly.

2 da moooooon

[kkaspar]

Orly? Tell that to Forex traders who speculate in every single currency in the world.

Can't you understand that trading currencies with one another is different from A currency being a good investment?
It would also be ok, if people are buying bitcoin to trade with other cryptos and to make money with trade. But people buying bitcoins are buying to hold and to wait for as long as possible to sell. It would be like someone on forex buys USD or CNY to hold and become rich by holding.
Don't try to confuse two totally different things with one another please.

[keithers]

2012 called, he wants his "bitcoin will never be a serious currency" argument back. Markets need buyers and sellers. Price discovery, liquidity, market makers, all that.

Well, what was true in 2012 is true now. Not much has changed in bitcoin structure that would make this argument obsolete.
Yes, markets needs buyers, sellers etc. It's hard to understand what you're trying to say with that. It certainly isn't a counter-argument to currency needing stability and bitcoin being unable to offer it.

I assume more buyers and sellers create a more stable price. You should have been here last year when a few hundred coin dump could take the market lower significantly. We've come a ways since then.

Always is the best time to buy when there's blood in the streets...at this point, bitcoin has too much momentum to not recover.  Recoveries may take a little longer than they used to, but it always bounces back

[dreamspark]

If people are getting them and never had a gox account could it be this account ? Who got that email to the email adresss registered here? Other one I can think of is bitcoinbuilder.

[Dragonkiller]

If people are getting them and never had a gox account could it be this account ? Who got that email to the email adresss registered here? Other one I can think of is bitcoinbuilder.

well i have a gox account and didn't receive the email, so it's not gox

edit: ignore that, i just received it too

[Templer]

If people are getting them and never had a gox account could it be this account ? Who got that email to the email adresss registered here? Other one I can think of is bitcoinbuilder.

dont recieved anything...different emails on mtgox and bitcoinbuilder.

Btw on BTC builder GOXbtc under 0.1

[CoinDox]

If people are getting them and never had a gox account could it be this account ? Who got that email to the email adresss registered here? Other one I can think of is bitcoinbuilder.

What?

[bassclef]

Orly? Tell that to Forex traders who speculate in every single currency in the world.

Can't you understand that trading currencies with one another is different from A currency being a good investment?
It would also be ok, if people are buying bitcoin to trade with other cryptos and to make money with trade. But people buying bitcoins are buying to hold and to wait for as long as possible to sell. It would be like someone on forex buys USD or CNY to hold and become rich by holding.
Don't try to confuse two totally different things with one another please.

[Sitarow]

[JorgeStolfi]

Sorry if this was posted already:

Jesse Powell's Blog
Unilateral Statement Regarding Fucked Up Shit, and the Greater Good
http://jesse.forthewin.com/blog/2014/02/unilateral-statement-regarding-fucked-up-shit-and-the-greater-good.html

[fotosonics]

There's $23m+ on stamp's order book. where did that come from? i find it hard to believe all the people that got goxed that want to buy coins again sent their fiat to stamp so quickly.

They still want in, just not through a gate of hell like Gox. Sort of like seeing some glittering oasis obstructed by fire breathing hellhounds on one side and on the other side, there are lovesick supermodels. So it's a lot more practical to get into the oasis by way of the lovesick supermodels.

Not so hard to understand.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[sonofliberty]

[fotosonics]

Silk Road effect.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/rational-exuberance--bitcoin-soars-as-feds-close-in-on-mt--gox-182310577.html