Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[cee-euros]

battle of the blocks on stamp

resistance win

[I_bitcoin]

which way is it gonna go on the breakout? We will know soon.....

Up

[oda.krell]

You guys can snark all you want, but we need functional, scalable online exchanges. Otherwise, there is no comparable market for BTC, and certainly no comparable valuation per coin.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't demand more transparency from exchanges.

But it's kind of tiring to hear from the 2011 veterans that mined a few k coins back in the day "hur dur you should never keep coins on an exchange". If you *buy* them on an exchange, you just (even if just for a day) *kept* them on an exchange. End of story.

So the conclusion is not to bash using exchanges, but to demand *better* exchanges. Preferably: decentralized exchanges.

[empowering]

[Richy_T]

I tend to think that The digital currency hasn't been created yet. I'm still waiting for a team with proper funding and experience to enter this field. The potential is too big for single hobbyists.

[Richy_T]

That's 16 different exchanges in 16 different countries, none of which were linked to one another, and all having separate incorporation papers in their respective countries. Mt Gox (USD) just happened to be the largest one that we're all familiar with, but they all went dark at the same time.

Now, you tell me how can one going down affect the other 15 unless...

Take a look here if you don't believe me: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

Josh, more fans please! The shit is piling up and needs to be circulated.

My understanding was that foreign currencies were converted to USD for trading purposes (something that seemed pointless to me).

[kkaspar]

I was wondering if you would say that...so in a year, or two a currency that does not even exist yet, is going to be created, launched, mined, gain popularity and out-trade Bitcoin in the next 52 to 104 weeks, a coin that literally does not exist now..  interesting thought...

What will it do that will make it able to grow this fast and this well that any coins cannot do at present? and even if it is a great coin, can you explain how you think it will grow the network in such a rapid time?

Remember how fast bitcoin did it. And with less attention to the entire subject. Bitcoin has paved the way and now people take the entire idea more seriously.

How long Bitcoin did it in , so 5 plus years then (we do not know how long Satoshi worked to create the code/concept/features and test it before 2009)?
So lets call it 6 years... maybe more...

Bitcoin was already trusted in around 2011. Mainly in a drug community, but still.
The new currency needs security and a more user-friendly usability. The attention will come quickly because there is already a lot of attention on the subject. Bitcoin had to catch the attention on the entire subject itself. If a crypto emerges with better qualities, then people will start jumping cryptos fast. It's the nature of products that are supported mostly by hype. Support from hype is a fragile thing because people will get amazed by new alternatives very quickly. I think that doggecoin perfectly showed the nature of bitcoin. You don't even need a better quality product and simplistic lowbrow hype was all it needed to become quite popular.

[Peter R]

You guys can snark all you want, but we need functional, scalable online exchanges. Otherwise, there is no comparable market for BTC, and certainly no comparable valuation per coin.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't demand more transparency from exchanges.

But it's kind of tiring to hear from the 2011 veterans that mined a few k coins back in the day "hur dur you should never keep coins on an exchange". If you *buy* them on an exchange, you just (even if just for a day) *kept* them on an exchange. End of story.

So the conclusion is not to bash using exchanges, but to demand *better* exchanges. Preferably: decentralized exchanges.

Completely agree.  Exchanges are an important part of the bitcoin ecosystem and traders should feel reasonably comfortable holding funds with them.

We need to demand better transparency and third-party auditing of exchanges.  The Gox implosion provides the impetus to get this going...

[joehal]

You guys can snark all you want, but we need functional, scalable online exchanges. Otherwise, there is no comparable market for BTC, and certainly no comparable valuation per coin.

Or we can have a public led, centralized but completely transparent exchange. Kinda like a Linux project or something. (meaning Linux also don't belong to a single company and it's not closed)

[kkaspar]

[...]communism movement. On the outside, it looked like idealistic people want to give more freedom and liberty to the people, but really they were just interested in redistributing power to their favor, while actually concentrating power even more then before.

I don't know which "outside" you were on but to most of us, it looked like exactly what it was.

I didn't express myself quite right here. Yes, people on the outside mostly saw communism as it is, but people on the inside were the ones who thought that they are idealistic good-doers and they believed it looked like that on the outside. Same here with bitcoin, where most of the majority sees bitcoin as a shady pyramid scheme while those on the inside think that they are actually doing good and people just don't understand them.
Denial is a powerful thing

[kkaspar]

The chart seems to be in a desperate hold again. No one is buying and the hodlers are waiting for something to happen so the price starts rising. Soon someone will get tired of waiting and will sell, that will in turn trigger more sells and we will probably see another drop that goes lower then 400.

The chart seems to be in a desperate hold again. No one is buying and the hodlers are waiting for something to happen so the price starts rising. Soon someone will get tired of waiting and will buy, that will in turn trigger more buys and we will probably see another rise that goes higher then 700.

It could happen. Some whale could be desperate enough. I don't find it very probable tho, because it would stupid to start pumping with these volumes. In best case scenario, no one will start dumping while you're pumping.

[MelMan2002]

[...]communism movement. On the outside, it looked like idealistic people want to give more freedom and liberty to the people, but really they were just interested in redistributing power to their favor, while actually concentrating power even more then before.

I don't know which "outside" you were on but to most of us, it looked like exactly what it was.

I didn't express myself quite right here. Yes, people on the outside mostly saw communism as it is, but people on the inside were the ones who thought that they are idealistic good-doers and they believed it looked like that on the outside. Same here with bitcoin, where most of the majority sees bitcoin as a shady pyramid scheme while those on the inside think that they are actually doing good and people just don't understand them.
Denial is a powerful thing

I have found that when there are two strong, opposing opinions it is usually the result of one or both sides being misinformed...

[oda.krell]

You guys can snark all you want, but we need functional, scalable online exchanges. Otherwise, there is no comparable market for BTC, and certainly no comparable valuation per coin.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't demand more transparency from exchanges.

But it's kind of tiring to hear from the 2011 veterans that mined a few k coins back in the day "hur dur you should never keep coins on an exchange". If you *buy* them on an exchange, you just (even if just for a day) *kept* them on an exchange. End of story.

So the conclusion is not to bash using exchanges, but to demand *better* exchanges. Preferably: decentralized exchanges.

I don't see how decentralized exchanges can work on the fiat side of things. I don't doubt that some genius will manage to figure it out eventually though.

I believe that Bitcoin can have an exchange rate without centralized exchanges (especially as more people adopt it). We've just had this argument 12 hours ago in this thread.

By the way, I don't think I'm "snarking" when I recommend people keep their coins in cold storage. I genuinely want people to know how to protect their Bitcoins.

I didn't mean you, just Adrian-X's comment (whose opinion I respect usually) above, I guess.

The fiat part of decentralized exchanges is the tricky bit of course, but some form of distributed escrow will hopefully solve it in practice.

And in either case, a *centralized* exchange of which (a) the owner is fully known by name, and (b) that is able to proof at all times that is in possession of all deposited funds (for BTC, I've seen a proposal by gmaxwell? was it his?, for USD bank statements would work I guess) would be a big step forward, in my opinion.

[Solarstorm75]

Bull Market about to begin. Cover your shorts cause you don't want to be caught with your pants down when this goes up.

I don't buy it. 4h MACD falling.

[traderCJ]

Great time to be lending BTC on bitfinex - it is sitting at an incredible 0.35% daily right now!  That is around 127% APR - compounded daily which would make it an effective annual rate of over 255%!!  Why are more people not lending BTC over there??

Where the eff are you seeing 0.35% on Bitfinex?  0.10% is the going rate

[kkaspar]

Bull Market about to begin. Cover your shorts cause you don't want to be caught with your pants down when this goes up.

People at the bitcoin market are weird.
The situation with gox would be like HSBC would shut it's doors and freeze all of it's customers funds, without giving any explanation. And people will react to it "Good! Now the stock market is going up! Let's all buy!"

[kkaspar]

[...]communism movement. On the outside, it looked like idealistic people want to give more freedom and liberty to the people, but really they were just interested in redistributing power to their favor, while actually concentrating power even more then before.

I don't know which "outside" you were on but to most of us, it looked like exactly what it was.

I didn't express myself quite right here. Yes, people on the outside mostly saw communism as it is, but people on the inside were the ones who thought that they are idealistic good-doers and they believed it looked like that on the outside. Same here with bitcoin, where most of the majority sees bitcoin as a shady pyramid scheme while those on the inside think that they are actually doing good and people just don't understand them.
Denial is a powerful thing

I have found that when there are two strong, opposing opinions it is usually the result of one or both sides being misinformed...

Yes, that is mostly the case.

[billyjoeallen]

Has is begun to sink in to people yet that the significance of the Crises report and the Gox business plan is that Karpeles was spending an enormous amount of time and energy attempting to attract new capital and cash plows when he could have been spending that time attempting to recover private keys if that was possible?

The fact that he was trying to get new money instead of hiring tech experts and locking down his servers should be telling to anyone paying attention.  Mark himself considered attracting new new capital inflows a more viable option than recovery of lost coins. If Karpeles thought that with access to the information he has, why would we with almost no information think differently?

[kehtolo]

Denial is a powerful thing

Exactly, denial is not just some river in Africa.. and how do you know 'most of the people' see it as a ponzi /pyramid scheme. How can you say you know what most people think?

I say, people who think this are mis-informed or just don't understand Bitcoin.
Anyway, I've no wish to even get into a debate with you. I've read the last 30 or so pages through today.. there is absolutely no point in getting into it with you.

[MelMan2002]

Great time to be lending BTC on bitfinex - it is sitting at an incredible 0.35% daily right now!  That is around 127% APR - compounded daily which would make it an effective annual rate of over 255%!!  Why are more people not lending BTC over there??

Where the eff are you seeing 0.35% on Bitfinex?  0.10% is the going rate

It came down shortly after my comment...but even at 0.1% that is pretty high..