Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[kkaspar]

[...]communism movement. On the outside, it looked like idealistic people want to give more freedom and liberty to the people, but really they were just interested in redistributing power to their favor, while actually concentrating power even more then before.

I don't know which "outside" you were on but to most of us, it looked like exactly what it was.

I didn't express myself quite right here. Yes, people on the outside mostly saw communism as it is, but people on the inside were the ones who thought that they are idealistic good-doers and they believed it looked like that on the outside. Same here with bitcoin, where most of the majority sees bitcoin as a shady pyramid scheme while those on the inside think that they are actually doing good and people just don't understand them.
Denial is a powerful thing

I have found that when there are two strong, opposing opinions it is usually the result of one or both sides being misinformed...

Yes, that is mostly the case.

[billyjoeallen]

Has is begun to sink in to people yet that the significance of the Crises report and the Gox business plan is that Karpeles was spending an enormous amount of time and energy attempting to attract new capital and cash plows when he could have been spending that time attempting to recover private keys if that was possible?

The fact that he was trying to get new money instead of hiring tech experts and locking down his servers should be telling to anyone paying attention.  Mark himself considered attracting new new capital inflows a more viable option than recovery of lost coins. If Karpeles thought that with access to the information he has, why would we with almost no information think differently?

[kehtolo]

Denial is a powerful thing

Exactly, denial is not just some river in Africa.. and how do you know 'most of the people' see it as a ponzi /pyramid scheme. How can you say you know what most people think?

I say, people who think this are mis-informed or just don't understand Bitcoin.
Anyway, I've no wish to even get into a debate with you. I've read the last 30 or so pages through today.. there is absolutely no point in getting into it with you.

[MelMan2002]

Great time to be lending BTC on bitfinex - it is sitting at an incredible 0.35% daily right now!  That is around 127% APR - compounded daily which would make it an effective annual rate of over 255%!!  Why are more people not lending BTC over there??

Where the eff are you seeing 0.35% on Bitfinex?  0.10% is the going rate

It came down shortly after my comment...but even at 0.1% that is pretty high..

[yrtrnc]

Best to use a decentralized exchange, the following looks interesting!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=462236.0

[joehal]

I agree completely! It's up to the customers to demand this kind of transparency from their exchanges. They need to vote with their wallet!

I'm guessing if an exchange like this would appear, people would really flock to it. Even if the name would be GOX  (gox 2.0), or maybe especially if it will be gox.. because it will be proof that despite all the problems, it manage to survive after all these years.
  A completely transparent exchange like this could get soon the biggest.

[Solarstorm75]

Bull Market about to begin. Cover your shorts cause you don't want to be caught with your pants down when this goes up.

People at the bitcoin market are weird.
The situation with gox would be like HSBC would shut it's doors and freeze all of it's customers funds, without giving any explanation. And people will react to it "Good! Now the stock market is going up! Let's all buy!"

Yeah, but only speculators...

Where's the newbie-crowd and their fresh fiat?

[derpinheimer]

Bull Market about to begin. Cover your shorts cause you don't want to be caught with your pants down when this goes up.

People at the bitcoin market are weird.
The situation with gox would be like HSBC would shut it's doors and freeze all of it's customers funds, without giving any explanation. And people will react to it "Good! Now the stock market is going up! Let's all buy!"

Yeah, but only speculators...

Where's the newbie-crowd and their fresh fiat?

I wouldnt be touching any of the exchanges if I were an interested investor after the Gox ordeal, I tell you that much

[kkaspar]

Denial is a powerful thing

Exactly, denial is not just some river in Africa.. and how do you know 'most of the people' see it as a ponzi /pyramid scheme. How can you say you know what most people think?

I say, people who think this are mis-informed or just don't understand Bitcoin.
Anyway, I've no wish to even get into a debate with you. I've read the last 30 or so pages through today.. there is absolutely no point in getting into it with you.

The internet actually helps you to see the general stance of things and you can reflect things on the large number of your friends and aquaintances with different social positions. And most do see bitcoin as a shady pyramid scheme, with most of the coins owned by unknown few and while investing into bitcoin, you are filling the pockets of those unknown few.

I agree that there is little use in trying to convert me. I studied this entire subject in depth before I made my decision on what bitcoin is. So it is very hard to bring forward some new information that could change my mind.

[KeyserSoze]

I have been using offline wallets (originally just a plain wallet.dat created with air gapped hardware) ever since.

Like this?

[kkaspar]

HSBC closed their doors? Quick, abandon the US dollar!

I find the stock market to be the better analogy here, but your analogy is not bad either. During that time, I wouldn't hold my wealth in any financial institutions that are connected to the global banking network.

[kkaspar]

Bull Market about to begin. Cover your shorts cause you don't want to be caught with your pants down when this goes up.

People at the bitcoin market are weird.
The situation with gox would be like HSBC would shut it's doors and freeze all of it's customers funds, without giving any explanation. And people will react to it "Good! Now the stock market is going up! Let's all buy!"

Yeah, but only speculators...

Where's the newbie-crowd and their fresh fiat?

The newbie recruits who are easy to impress are waiting at south- and central-america. I'm waiting for bitcoin to enter those untouched markets. I would go back bullish for this new bubble and maybe I'll sing the same song with people here how bitcoin will save the world and how every time you buy a bitcoin, then you save a kitten.

[BubbaGumpShrimpinBoatCapn]

Hey guys, i am starting a totally new and decentralized bitcoin exchange.  It is so decentralized we dont even have a website!  My email address is anonuser@junkmail.com same for paypal!  Send me your fiats, and i will get you some BTCs

Turst me, you are in good hands.  Your money is in gods hands.  If you miss magic the gathering online exchange, then youre going to love us!  We are more than magic, we are miracle workers!  Let the light shine into your lives and wallets!

Miracle gathering online exchange!  Now with Jesus!  You can trust MGOX w/Jesus!

[kkaspar]

Hey guys, i am starting a totally new and decentralized bitcoin exchange.  It is so decentralized we dont even have a website!  My email address is anonuser@junkmail.com same for paypal!  Send me your fiats, and i will get you some BTCs

Turst me, you are in good hands.  Your money is in gods hands.

I'm e-mailing you my fiat, because the fall of gox made me really want to trust my money in the hands of unknown people, so I feel extremely bullish and in the need of bitcoin.

[JorgeStolfi]

That's 16 different exchanges in 16 different countries, none of which were linked to one another, and all having separate incorporation papers in their respective countries.

My understanding was that foreign currencies were converted to USD for trading purposes (something that seemed pointless to me).

AFAIK, the account balances in various national currencies that a client had at MtGOX (or at any other typical exchange) were just numbers in an internal ledger.  All trades were executed by simply changing those numbers.

The actual money that appeared to be in the clients' accounts was kept, all mixed together, in the corporate bank accounts; and the totals for each type of currency did not have to match up.  To execute a withdrawal, the proper amount was taken from a corporate account, converted to the currency that the user requested, if necessary, and wired to the customer's bank account.

In principle one could mix the bitcoins too into that common corporate assets pool, either as BTC or converted to any national currency.  That would be risky, because of possible price fluctuations; but It would not be illegal, and arguably not even unethical -- as long as the exchange kept executing the BTC  widthrawals with due speed.

[empowering]

I was wondering if you would say that...so in a year, or two a currency that does not even exist yet, is going to be created, launched, mined, gain popularity and out-trade Bitcoin in the next 52 to 104 weeks, a coin that literally does not exist now..  interesting thought...

What will it do that will make it able to grow this fast and this well that any coins cannot do at present? and even if it is a great coin, can you explain how you think it will grow the network in such a rapid time?

Remember how fast bitcoin did it. And with less attention to the entire subject. Bitcoin has paved the way and now people take the entire idea more seriously.

How long Bitcoin did it in , so 5 plus years then (we do not know how long Satoshi worked to create the code/concept/features and test it before 2009)?
So lets call it 6 years... maybe more...

Bitcoin was already trusted in around 2011. Mainly in a drug community, but still.
The new currency needs security and a more user-friendly usability. The attention will come quickly because there is already a lot of attention on the subject. Bitcoin had to catch the attention on the entire subject itself. If a crypto emerges with better qualities, then people will start jumping cryptos fast. It's the nature of products that are supported mostly by hype. Support from hype is a fragile thing because people will get amazed by new alternatives very quickly. I think that doggecoin perfectly showed the nature of bitcoin. You don't even need a better quality product and simplistic lowbrow hype was all it needed to become quite popular.

It was launched in 2009, your "trust" estimate is hardly quantifiable.. and now all of the coins have another element to slow them down "competition"
so the road you describe is not as simple as you make out.... and Dogecoin is still no where near as big at Bitcoin, and if you somehow think that it
will manage to overcome problems that you see in Bitcoin then I would like to know why, as I see problems coming for Doge, partly because it is a immature network. Besides we are not talking "become popular" you are saying get bigger than Bitcoin with 1 year or 2 , and it will be a superior coin, and that is does not exist yet... I am not refuting you outright... I am asking you to describe the birth and journey of this coin and what will make it what you say.

Also it is one thing to say that you can innovate a new coin, with superior features, that will appeal to people, but another to actually do it...
 
Writing, coding, testing, creating these special Bitcoin beating features you propose is all going to take time (I mean do you know what these features are? can you list some of them) as is getting miners onboard, and then reaching the network size of the BTC, unless they come up with a way to make a huge network spring up overnight.

I think there is going to be competition, and there will be "more than one"

But your timeframe of another coin reaching the network size, the marketcap, merchant use, public awareness etc of one to two years is tight...not impossible but tight... as in we must surely be seeing this coin be born anyday now?  

Please do keep me posted, I would be very interested to know about this coin as soon as it appears!
 
I think while you feel others overestimate the importance of the head start and network headstart of BTC, I think you are underestimating it, as I have said I do believe there will be competition, so I am not flat out not in agreement, but I guess the next coin, the one that take its rightful place where Ripple is now, will be half the marketcap of BTC in one years time... if it is lucky...

[BubbaGumpShrimpinBoatCapn]

Hey guys, i am starting a totally new and decentralized bitcoin exchange.  It is so decentralized we dont even have a website!  My email address is anonuser@junkmail.com same for paypal!  Send me your fiats, and i will get you some BTCs

Turst me, you are in good hands.  Your money is in gods hands.

I'm e-mailing you my fiat, because the fall of gox made me really want to trust my money in the hands of unknown people, so I feel extremely bullish and in the need of bitcoin.

We also donate 90% of your fiats to end third world hunger.  So.  You really cannot find a better deal anywhere in the entire world.  In fact it makes you a bad person if you dont send us all your money.*







*disclaimer: profit nor bitcoins guaranteed.

[MelMan2002]

Hey guys, i am starting a totally new and decentralized bitcoin exchange.  It is so decentralized we dont even have a website!  My email address is anonuser@junkmail.com same for paypal!  Send me your fiats, and i will get you some BTCs

Turst me, you are in good hands.  Your money is in gods hands.  If you miss magic the gathering online exchange, then youre going to love us!  We are more than magic, we are miracle workers!  Let the light shine into your lives and wallets!

Miracle gathering online exchange!  Now with Jesus!  You can trust MGOX w/Jesus!

lol - I went to mgox.com just to see and it says "MGOX is coming soon" lulz

also funny that emptygox.com redirects to kraken

[surfer43]

What has happened in past two days?

[empowering]

Denial is a powerful thing

Exactly, denial is not just some river in Africa.. and how do you know 'most of the people' see it as a ponzi /pyramid scheme. How can you say you know what most people think?

I say, people who think this are mis-informed or just don't understand Bitcoin.
Anyway, I've no wish to even get into a debate with you. I've read the last 30 or so pages through today.. there is absolutely no point in getting into it with you.

The internet actually helps you to see the general stance of things and you can reflect things on the large number of your friends and aquaintances with different social positions. And most do see bitcoin as a shady pyramid scheme, with most of the coins owned by unknown few and while investing into bitcoin, you are filling the pockets of those unknown few.

I agree that there is little use in trying to convert me. I studied this entire subject in depth before I made my decision on what bitcoin is. So it is very hard to bring forward some new information that could change my mind.

The internet is like a mirror...