ChartBuddy
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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
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February 28, 2014, 08:03:29 AM |
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bassclef
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February 28, 2014, 08:19:16 AM |
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Personally, I am NOT too worried about the MT. Gox situation in the whole scheme of things - however, it is leaving some uncertainty for some time b/c we are NOT getting very clear communication about the extent of the damage and/or the extent to which any investors will be made whole. Certainly with the passage of time, more and more regular people are finding out about bitcoin.. and there becomes more and more potential for bitcoin to begin to fill some various voids and to take on the value of various asset classes in the forum of currency, commodity, money transmitter, and network - amongst other potentialities.
Agreed. Gox has been around since the beginning (well, basically), and so will contribute to uncertainty going forward until we have real information. Gox certainly had more whales than any other exchange with hundreds and thousands of coins being tossed back and forth during volatile periods. It was amazing to watch, actually. My analysis of the situation is that Gox is either massively fraudulent or they're under a gag order. Recent US Silk Road investigations and their seizure of Mark's Dwolla account would support the latter. Watching Mark playfully make an apple tart or play with his cat on his Youtube channel makes it hard to believe he is a complicit criminal, but stranger things have happened. |
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MikeH
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February 28, 2014, 08:25:29 AM |
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Yeah, this is not bitcoin-related, but felt I needed to post this in response to the recycled Putin/Yanukovych propaganda someone posted here. IMHO, as a U.S. citizen of Ukrainian background (grew up in the U.S., but my first language was Ukrainian and I’ve tracked Ukrainian politics closely my entire life), this article gets much of it correct: Everything you know about Ukraine is wrong http://pando.com/2014/02/24/everything-you-know-about-ukraine-is-wrong/damn OS restarted from an update as I was typing.. arrgh. anyway, that seems a balanced view but is still just one of many. since they didn't touch on the paid protesters or even question what they were seeing when protesters were shot (Israeli snipers were caught in Syria at the start of events there), it is obviously not the whole story.. being Ukrainian makes little difference, I know 90+ % of Australians, British and Americans don't know what the hell is going on in their own country, we are all subject to some form of propaganda and even if you try to research everything there will still be missing pieces. as long as people are willing to say they don't really know what is going on there, I'm ok with it but when they react to every tidbit of biased reporting it just drives me nuts. back on topic.. buy buy buy!!  |
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Chang Hum
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February 28, 2014, 08:42:23 AM |
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It's very interesting that despite it being public knowledge that within the next few hours Mark Kapeles is going to announce bankrupsy proceedings with enough capital to potentially pay out at 1:30, that the price on Bitcoin Builder has rallied to almost 1:10  .... looks like people that haven't lost shit loads of money already want to join the party, be interesting to see how fast/low this falls post announcement. |
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seleme
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Duelbits.com
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February 28, 2014, 08:44:54 AM |
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There are surely some extremist groups among Ukrainian protestors but you don't topple a government if you don't have support of people overall. Those extremist groups were just one part of protesting movement, whole Ukrainian people were behind it (and I mean Ukrainian people, not Ukrainian citizens who are putting Russian flags on government buildings in some prorussian areas these days, they don't give a rat about Ukraine anyway, they care about Russia only=
Surely protest were supported by USA and EU but when you give Ukrainians choice of picking West or Russians who ruled them for decades and still want to be the boss in their country, then that's not a big choice for them, they'll pick West any time.
I don't think they were a majority, but even if it was, you'd be surprised at how a bit of propaganda can steer a population, there have been endless coups driven by outside powers, just about any that you can name in recent years have been based on lies.. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Egypt, Venezuala (2002). a recent attempt in Guinea where 4 Israeli's arrested for plotting coup: "According to the intelligence files dated September 13 and quoted by the French newspaper, the mercenaries aimed to provoke the Guinean police and armed forces to hurt citizens in order to incite political unrest in the West African republic ahead of the elections." They've used this same method countless times, you should watch confessions of an economic hitman to get a better idea of how and why. I absolutely agree and it's obvious that this was driven and supported by Western powers, I'm just stating that it's also obvious that Ukrainians would rather turn them self to the West and not to the Russia, and considering their history I think it's fair to support them in that. |
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Erdogan
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February 28, 2014, 08:47:01 AM |
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There are two reasons why "countries", really governments of countries, wants fiat money in stead of sound money. Number one is that they can repeatedly, without their subjects discovering, steal from the money supply.
Fiat money and sound money aren't opposites. There are fiat that are soft and there are fiat that are hard. People are whining that money isn't directly connected to gold anymore and they don't even bother to study why. Instead of gold, today we have the petrodollar, where the actual thing that gives value to the dollar is oil that has better practical value and less speculative value. How come can the government, or more specifically an politician, steal more in case there is a steady inflation rate? There is no such thing as petrodollar. If you have dollars, you can not redeem it for oil. Dollar is used for trade in oil because it is an international market, and dollar is the best fiat for that. There is nothing special about oil or energy as goods. It is products that are useful, nothing more, nothing less. When a fiat is inflated, new money is created and the owner of the new money is the government. Number two is that they think they can force investments through the zero interest rate policy. They can not really, because the credit made available goes to suboptimal production, sometimes even capital consumption, taking everybody down in the process.
Sound money (of which bitcoin is an example) is in the interest of everyone except governments of countries.
Problems with suboptimal production and capital consumption come from places that lacks education, tradition and culture. I think you are right on that, there is a connection there on how more developed societies can handle themselves better under more intensive investment pressure. There could be a rule that less developed countries need stable deflation rate instead. But.. in this subject we are talking about bitcoin, that has no stable deflation rate. It is volatile and with a never-ending rise. It's a beautiful piece of art, but it has no place in serious finance because of that. It's job is to introduce the entire subject, so it needed to be attractive to the regular folks who believe financial fairytales. Through regular people, the subject can also reach more influential people, who can start implementing the realistic parts of that idea to everyday finance. For people who have access to loans with interest rate lower than the price increase, it is optimal to invest in businesses with negative profit.
There is no use trying to convince me that bitcoin can survive more then couple of years, before it will get eaten by competition. To me it sounds like, when someone is the first to struck oil, and then no one else on earth will drill for oil any longer, because someone else already did it. Creating the perfect digital currency will soon be the holy grail to everyone who consider them to be geniuses at software engineering.
The reason for each government to have its own fiat money system becomes clear when you understand the reason for having fiat, described above. Since there is nothing in virtual currencies for governments (or any other group), there is no natural tendency to have many. For producers and consumers it is best to have one universal currency, therefore bitcoin clones will have a hard time. There must be a good reason for an altcoin to thrive. |
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ChartBuddy
Legendary
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Activity: 2184
Merit: 1778
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
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February 28, 2014, 09:02:56 AM |
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fluidjax
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February 28, 2014, 09:05:43 AM |
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Personally, I am NOT too worried about the MT. Gox situation in the whole scheme of things - however, it is leaving some uncertainty for some time b/c we are NOT getting very clear communication about the extent of the damage and/or the extent to which any investors will be made whole. Certainly with the passage of time, more and more regular people are finding out about bitcoin.. and there becomes more and more potential for bitcoin to begin to fill some various voids and to take on the value of various asset classes in the forum of currency, commodity, money transmitter, and network - amongst other potentialities.
I think it is pretty clear now what is going to happen, the only people who don't believe this are in denial. Bankruptcy and 'investors' will get almost nothing, and any little money they do get will be a long way down the line. I also think: Logfiles and records will make there way to various agencies and some investigations will take place. As this information is correlated between Silkroad, Gox and the Blockchain there may be some more arrests. All this is going to happen many months from now, the only thing that will happen immediately is the bankruptcy. |
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hdbuck
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February 28, 2014, 09:12:19 AM |
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There are surely some extremist groups among Ukrainian protestors but you don't topple a government if you don't have support of people overall. Those extremist groups were just one part of protesting movement, whole Ukrainian people were behind it (and I mean Ukrainian people, not Ukrainian citizens who are putting Russian flags on government buildings in some prorussian areas these days, they don't give a rat about Ukraine anyway, they care about Russia only=
Surely protest were supported by USA and EU but when you give Ukrainians choice of picking West or Russians who ruled them for decades and still want to be the boss in their country, then that's not a big choice for them, they'll pick West any time.
I don't think they were a majority, but even if it was, you'd be surprised at how a bit of propaganda can steer a population, there have been endless coups driven by outside powers, just about any that you can name in recent years have been based on lies.. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Egypt, Venezuala (2002). a recent attempt in Guinea where 4 Israeli's arrested for plotting coup: "According to the intelligence files dated September 13 and quoted by the French newspaper, the mercenaries aimed to provoke the Guinean police and armed forces to hurt citizens in order to incite political unrest in the West African republic ahead of the elections." They've used this same method countless times, you should watch confessions of an economic hitman to get a better idea of how and why. I absolutely agree and it's obvious that this was driven and supported by Western powers, I'm just stating that it's also obvious that Ukrainians would rather turn them self to the West and not to the Russia, and considering their history I think it's fair to support them in that. They are just buying that MTV, Mcdonalds and Rihanna crap... What they dont understand is their Taxes are going to surge as well as unemployment and misery. Plus, making Russia their enemy will have dramatic effects on their energy costs too... Fools.  |
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Chang Hum
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February 28, 2014, 09:14:21 AM |
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There are surely some extremist groups among Ukrainian protestors but you don't topple a government if you don't have support of people overall. Those extremist groups were just one part of protesting movement, whole Ukrainian people were behind it (and I mean Ukrainian people, not Ukrainian citizens who are putting Russian flags on government buildings in some prorussian areas these days, they don't give a rat about Ukraine anyway, they care about Russia only=
Surely protest were supported by USA and EU but when you give Ukrainians choice of picking West or Russians who ruled them for decades and still want to be the boss in their country, then that's not a big choice for them, they'll pick West any time.
I don't think they were a majority, but even if it was, you'd be surprised at how a bit of propaganda can steer a population, there have been endless coups driven by outside powers, just about any that you can name in recent years have been based on lies.. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Egypt, Venezuala (2002). a recent attempt in Guinea where 4 Israeli's arrested for plotting coup: "According to the intelligence files dated September 13 and quoted by the French newspaper, the mercenaries aimed to provoke the Guinean police and armed forces to hurt citizens in order to incite political unrest in the West African republic ahead of the elections." They've used this same method countless times, you should watch confessions of an economic hitman to get a better idea of how and why. I absolutely agree and it's obvious that this was driven and supported by Western powers, I'm just stating that it's also obvious that Ukrainians would rather turn them self to the West and not to the Russia, and considering their history I think it's fair to support them in that. They are just buying that MTV, Mcdonalds and Rihanna crap... What they dont understand is their Taxes are going to surge as well as unemployment and misery. Plus, making Russia their enemy will have dramatic effects on their energy costs too... Fools. Totally disagree Rihanna is hot! |
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Flatulenters
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February 28, 2014, 09:25:16 AM |
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Templer
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February 28, 2014, 09:29:54 AM |
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Current local time in Tokyo Friday, 28. February 2014, 18:29:25 JST where are they?? xD |
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delphic
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February 28, 2014, 09:30:14 AM |
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There is no use trying to convince me that bitcoin can survive more then couple of years, before it will get eaten by competition. To me it sounds like, when someone is the first to struck oil, and then no one else on earth will drill for oil any longer, because someone else already did it. Creating the perfect digital currency will soon be the holy grail to everyone who consider them to be geniuses at software engineering.
I CANNOT disagree with you, here. It is very possible that there is going to be an improvement on bitcoin that will undermine bitcoin... but that is in the future.. and maybe even, as you say, two years or so. At the moment... bitcoin is pretty damn good... and bitcoin is "the one" to invest into b/c it is the direction of the future. However, if a better "one" comes along 6 months from now, one year, two years or even longer.. at that point, it is very possible that we could transfer our investment from bitcoin to that other "one." Accordingly, what's the problem... Invest in bitcoin now, and when that other better one comes along, then move assets into that other better one... NO problema. waiting for more cheap coins When is this going to happen, and how low is it going to go... I would like some more too in the coming week or so... and then thereafter we can be on our moonward journey... It amuses me whenever people think they will be able to 'transfer' investments from BTC into a new hypothetical coin. Short of selling the BTC (which would implicitly be devalued because of the new, better coin) and buying the new coin, how would that work? |
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Flatulenters
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February 28, 2014, 09:33:26 AM |
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MANofthePEOPLE
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February 28, 2014, 09:33:41 AM |
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Hope btc-e comes back up before that |
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Solarstorm75
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February 28, 2014, 09:36:46 AM |
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Current local time in Tokyo Friday, 28. February 2014, 18:29:25 JST where are they?? xD No news yet... [Suspicious link removed]j.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303801304579410010379087576 [/url] Mt. Gox to Hold News ConferenceA covered Bitcoin sign is hung outside a Bitcoin cafe which was scheduled to open in March at the building housing the company operating the Mt. Gox Bitcoin exchange in Tokyo, Japan. Bloomberg News TOKYO—Mt. Gox is about to hold a news conference at the Tokyo District Court. Earlier Friday, the head of the embattled bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox said he couldn't comment on a statement by another bitcoin entrepreneur that he had said Mt. Gox was preparing a bankruptcy filing. "We cannot comment for now. Please wait to see our next announce online," Mark Karpeles told The Wall Street Journal in an email on Friday afternoon in a rare response to media since Mt. Gox halted all transactions and took down content on its website on Tuesday. Other people close to Mt. Gox said the company was expected to make an announcement later Friday. They said they didn't know the nature of the announcement. Roger Ver, a Tokyo-based bitcoin entrepreneur who has known people at Mt. Gox for several years, said Mr. Karpeles told him in a text message on Tuesday that he was preparing a bankruptcy filing. Mr. Ver, who has been a friend of the Mt. Gox executives for several years and said he received the text message on Tuesday, the day that Mt. Gox halted all transactions and took down content on its website. Mr. Ver has vouched for Mt. Gox's trustworthiness in the past, but has in the past few day, along with many in the wider bitcoin community, sought to separate the issues at Mt. Gox from the bitcoin industry as a whole. Mt. Gox has made two announcements on its otherwise empty website this week. On Tuesday, it said it had decided to close all transactions for the time being "to protect the site and our users." On Wednesday, Mr. Karpeles said on the site that he was still in Japan and "working very hard" to find a solution to "our recent issues." |
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Flatulenters
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February 28, 2014, 09:42:39 AM |
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gizmoh
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February 28, 2014, 09:43:33 AM |
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Wall Street Journal @WSJ 3m Breaking: Mt. Gox has filed for bankruptcy protection, a company lawyer says. http://wsj.com |
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billington.mark
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February 28, 2014, 09:45:00 AM |
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What is Bankruptcy Protection?
"Bankruptcy protection" is the process by which a debtor is "protected" by a court while they reorganize their finances.
Protected from what? Protected from excessively hasty or harassing creditor actions, such as foreclosures, repossessions, law suits, harassing telephone calls, and the like. A more accurate lay-terminology for filing for "bankruptcy protection" would be filing for "financial reorganization" or "financial restructuring" under Chapter 7 or Chapter 13.
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