Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[barbs]

I don't see this ending well, I've got remaining capital at a buy order which will cover my lost BTC from gox and bring my balance back in line, we'll see how we go next few days.. this weekend should be really interesting

[samson]

With MtGox, Bitcoinica and all the other hacks and large scale rip offs like the 'pirateat40' incident which have happened over the years I suspect about 10% of the Bitcoin currency is stolen property.

Trading in stolen property is illegal. This is good enough to outlaw exchanges in my opinion and I suspect governments around the world will use this against Bitcoin.

It will be forever tainted by this huge amount of stolen coins.

When people finally trace some of their missing coins to a US corporation I can't wait to see the lawsuits start rolling in by people wanting their coins back, especially those who lost thousands of coins.

The best thing is, we're just getting started - this will happen again and again.

[F-bernanke]

Yes - but a lot of market actors actually have less Bitcoin than they previously thought (everybody with balances at gox). All those that want to replenish their positions will exert buying pressure on the market. Or am I missing something here?

Thats right, we had the real 12million BTC in circulation PLUS the 744k Gox coins, so this makes a total of 13 million coins.


Now we are back to 12 million coins.


Supply just shrunk.

[chrisLG]

You're assuming that these people who had massive balances on gox (early adopters, whoever) and were cut off to those overnight are able to put the same funds on other exchanges absorbing that hit I guess

Even if they'll just rebuy a tiny fraction of their former balances - this will still mean higher demand.

[TakeTheSkyRoad]

Unrelated to the actual news I do like that bitcoin has moved from the "Tech" to the "Business" and "Money" sections of most news sites.

This shows increasing acceptance

[F-bernanke]

With MtGox, Bitcoinica and all the other hacks and large scale rip offs like the 'pirateat40' incident which have happened over the years I suspect about 10% of the Bitcoin currency is stolen property.

Trading in stolen property is illegal. This is good enough to outlaw exchanges in my opinion and I suspect governments around the world will use this against Bitcoin.

It will be forever tainted by this huge amount of stolen coins.

When people finally trace some of their missing coins to a US corporation I can't wait to see the lawsuits start rolling in by people wanting their coins back, especially those who lost thousands of coins.

The best thing is, we're just getting started - this will happen again and again.

And you think you never had a dollar bill in your pocket that was once stolen?

[magicmexican]

I wonder what happened between mark saying "not lost yet" and todays "all coins lost"

[zyk]

Of course this is bullish news - there are about 850.000 BTC less in the market than what the market thought: Everybody on Gox thought they had BTC - when in fact they didn't.

So the market now lacks those 850.000 BTC which means less supply at same demand... You do the math.

No there's not, if they were stolen then there is still the same amount of coins in circulation either off market or already diluted in the market.

The only time there is less coins is if the keys are lost.

Mt gox customers were trading and owned imaginary bitcoins

Yes - but a lot of market actors actually have less Bitcoin than they previously thought (everybody with balances at gox). All those that want to replenish their positions will exert buying pressure on the market. Or am I missing something here?

You're assuming that these people who had massive balances on gox (early adopters, whoever) and were cut off to those overnight are able to put the same funds on other exchanges absorbing that hit I guess

750000 BTC of those massive balances have been sold already and those balances are used to short the hell out

of the helpless "sucker -community----OMG

[dreamspark]

Of course this is bullish news - there are about 850.000 BTC less in the market than what the market thought: Everybody on Gox thought they had BTC - when in fact they didn't.

So the market now lacks those 850.000 BTC which means less supply at same demand... You do the math.

No there's not, if they were stolen then there is still the same amount of coins in circulation either off market or already diluted in the market.

The only time there is less coins is if the keys are lost.

Mt gox customers were trading and owned imaginary bitcoins

Yes - but a lot of market actors actually have less Bitcoin than they previously thought (everybody with balances at gox). All those that want to replenish their positions will exert buying pressure on the market. Or am I missing something here?

But the majority of those actors who had particuarly large amounts of btc on gox were early adopters who arent going to go and drop 6 or 7 figure sums of money to replace their coins, not just because of the monetary costs but the loss of faith etc.

The other people who lost large somes of money will be daytraders and big investors who did it just for the fiat gains, they too are not going to go ah well lost 6 figures lets go buy some more.

The rest of the masses , who can afford to replace a coin or two , probably make up a much smaller percentage of the overall loss than most would think.

[600watt]

I wonder what happened between mark saying "not lost yet" and todays "all coins lost"

he heist wasn´t complete yet...

[KeyserSoze]

How could they possibly have lost 850,000 BTCs?  

Hookers, blow and Pez.

[hmmmstrange]

It would be nice to see the community rally behind bitcoin and show the world that allowing a "bank" to fail is a good thing. I don't care if I'm on the wrong side of the price today, this week, this month..... I'm buying today.

[Amechan]

Paul Buitink @paulbuitink · 2h

According to my source it was the leaking of the crisis doc that ultimately killed the rescue of Gox

no he was doomed when he told the bitcoin foundation that his wallet method or accounting lost the coins
assuming what he says is true...he is an idiot at the head of a corporation that was clueless for years..
so..it is either that or he is an evil genius and will keep his personal fortune via bankruptcy...(ie he really
was that stupid ...therefore blameless in the theft...therefore bankruptcy protection will protect all his
personal assets)

no way that the document circulating killed mtgox....because any document stating he was clueless
enought to lose millions of bitcoins either now or later would have just killed it dead

no one invests in stupid

the sad part is he may have actually been clueless on all this which means by going bankrupt he
will keep any $$$ he cashed out in bitcoin years ago...you can't go after personal assets in
bankruptcy for being stupid and lossing folks btc or $$$ only if your intent was to do harm

so yeah he could walk away in his own unicorn and rainbow universe in a year when this
whole escapade when the bankruptcy shakes out....he will be humilated but likely have
way more money then me yet

the ways of finance.....people at the bottom have no safety nets ...people at the top
have all sorts for the same stupid/destructive behaviors....

anyhow hope i'm wrong ...but likely if he truely was that dumb (likely) he will walk
away from this humilated but still well off

Searing

That is why there was virtually no PR. Anything he said could be used to implicate himself later.
HE knew exactly what was going on but chose a course of action that was best for HIM and HIM only.

Even now the GOX homepage hasn't been updated.
What a blight on bitcoin.

[gizmoh]

Of course this is bullish news - there are about 850.000 BTC less in the market than what the market thought: Everybody on Gox thought they had BTC - when in fact they didn't.

So the market now lacks those 850.000 BTC which means less supply at same demand... You do the math.

You aren't looking at the WHOLE picture. Those btc in gox were in-existent ( in books only) but was bought with REAL money.
The collapse of Gox wiped out millions of $ from the bitcoin economy and fake btc.
Now you have same amount of coins ( granted the coins are not lost but stolen) with less money backing the btc economy( sitting on exchanges).

So its bearish.

[Miz4r]

Anyone who believes the 'official story' that 850k coins were actually stolen is a gullible fool imo. Something else went on there, either an inside job or they simply lost the private keys to the coins somehow.

[Amechan]

unbelievable that he allowed trading to continue when he knew that the btc coffers were empty, JUST TO LOWER HIS LAST PRICE and cut his liabilities into 1/10th when his company was dissolved.

That is absolutely f'd up.  

The most criminal part was to continue allowing deposits, sucking in millions more from gullible investors seeing cheap $100 coinz.

I seriously considered buying some cheap coins near the end.
Luckily my instincts overpowered my greed.

[aminorex]

Now you have same amount of coins ( granted the coins are not lost but stolen) with less money backing the btc economy( sitting on exchanges).

So its bearish.

Since transactions involving imaginary coins were being conducted, the effective coin supply was greater.  The elimination of the imaginary coins is a reduction in coin supply.  Net supply/demand effect: Neutral.

[600watt]

Where is "CCMF" now??


spotted it:

[yrtrnc]

It would be nice to see the community rally behind bitcoin and show the world that allowing a "bank" to fail is a good thing. I don't care if I'm on the wrong side of the price today, this week, this month..... I'm buying today.

I am hodling! And buying more

[p0peji]

With MtGox, Bitcoinica and all the other hacks and large scale rip offs like the 'pirateat40' incident which have happened over the years I suspect about 10% of the Bitcoin currency is stolen property.

Trading in stolen property is illegal. This is good enough to outlaw exchanges in my opinion and I suspect governments around the world will use this against Bitcoin.

It will be forever tainted by this huge amount of stolen coins.

When people finally trace some of their missing coins to a US corporation I can't wait to see the lawsuits start rolling in by people wanting their coins back, especially those who lost thousands of coins.

The best thing is, we're just getting started - this will happen again and again.

How do you think the Rothschilds got their money?