Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[bitebits]

There are professional for the custody (want a name? checksig.io).
This doesn’t make a lesser bitcoiner if you give your coins to someone that knows how to store them (definitely, not an exchange).

You are kidding me, right? Worst advise ever. This is how fools and their bitcoins are parted since the genesis block.

How does the deposit process work?

Send us a request and we will reply with a destination address using both email and a fully encrypted chat (WhatsApp, Telegram, or Signal). You can then transfer your Bitcoin to that address, and we’ll send you a formal deposit receipt when the transaction is confirmed.

If needed, our team can also assist you, in person or videoconference, in a simple step-by-step process to send your Bitcoin to our address.

[hisslyness]

More humor:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vitalik-buterin-calls-mandatory-bitcoin-184654330.html

...tactic of pushing BTC to millions of people in El Salvador at the same time with almost no attempt at prior education is reckless, and risks a large number of innocent people getting hacked or scammed. Shame on everyone (ok, fine, I’ll call out the main people responsible: shame on Bitcoin maximalists) who are uncritically praising him...

LOL

OMG its those "Bitcoin maximalists" recklessly exposing innocent people to being hacked and scammed.

Good thing they didn't make your little scamcoin official too, eh Vitalik? Sour grapes?

Let’s invent a programming language that instead of encapsulating, makes everything’s accessible everywhere by default.

And then run money on it.

Absolute Bonkers.

It’s like inventing a car with safety belts making the click sound but without locking or doors that do not lock tight after closing. What could go wrong?

There are people in a better position to argue about software hacks or scams.

What a effing retard that vitalik is, the only people getting scammed are people using his bloatware piece of shit… and other crap like binance shit! DeFi crap! NFT crap! Pancakes and Burgers…. I think we should shut that down to stop dumb people from getting a scammed!

I am fairly sure El Salvador passed a “Bitcoin Law” and not a crypto law. No one is being forced to use a certain “cryptocurrency”. They are being ask to accept a Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System called Bitcoin.

[Torque]

What a effing retard that vitalik is, the only people getting scammed are people using his bloatware piece of shit… and other crap like binance shit! DeFi crap! NFT crap! Pancakes and Burgers…. I think we should shut that down to stop dumb people from getting a scammed!

I am fairly sure El Salvador passed a “Bitcoin Law” and not a crypto law. No one is being forced to use a certain “cryptocurrency”. They are being ask to accept a Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System called Bitcoin.

People have long since forgotten that Vitalik actually said in the beginning [and I'm paraphrasing] that "Ethereum is NOT a competitor to Bitcoin. I didn't build it for that, and it's not suited for that. In fact, Ethereum should not be used as a form of money or currency like Bitcoin. Use Bitcoin instead."

I'm sure if what he said was written or captured somewhere on the internet, it has long since been buried or retconned. He would not want his beloved cult followers to know that he said or thought that.

Some of us at Crypto Pepperidge Farm...we remember. We remember everything.  

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Tash]

There are professional for the custody (want a name? checksig.io).
This doesn’t make a lesser bitcoiner if you give your coins to someone that knows how to store them (definitely, not an exchange).

You are kidding me, right? Worst advise ever. This is how fools and their bitcoins are parted since the genesis block.
..

No surprise the forum going downhill, its done a full 180° from the early days.
Did register on new forum the other day, (not crypto) as time nears to move on.
Maybe new for some (newbies) but not your keys not your coin.

[aysg76]

. Being your own bank is tough shit.

Once again the Digital gold is like the physical gold.
I have a few grams of gold on my body, I could be forced to give them to someone against my will, but it’s a bearable risk.
I have a few more grams in my house, hidden on a safebox hidden somewhere.
I also own a few gold pounds. Those are in a safe box at the bank. Protected with a meter-thick 5 layers safebox all surrounded by water.

I can’t understand how this approach isn’t followed for common people and ppl tend to store huge money on a mobile phone, or in a random wallet on their computers.
There are professional for the custody (want a name? checksig.io).
This doesn’t make a lesser bitcoiner if you give your coins to someone that knows how to store them (definitely, not an exchange).

Gold has been around for here years and the community has grown substantially and they don't make weird excuses for investing in it like they did for bitcoin.But they lack vision that if you wear excessive gold you could come into eyes of thieves apart from the government's who might ask you to freeze your gold certificate and even gold in your bank lockers at the time of any emergency but you can roam freely with billion dollars of qr code and your coins in your wallet or hardware devices.But still some stupids say gold is better need to check the returns and then have a clarification.I would also not call btc gold heaven because now it has turned to hell for the holders.

[Torque]

Torque's Prediction:

1. China's over-leveraged, mega Ponzi property market will start to finally, really implode by mid 2022. This will be the catalyst for another possible worldwide recession (did we ever leave one?)

2. Wealthy investors and hedge funds with insider knowledge will start front running these events, buying up Bitcoin starting Dec 2021 and resuming first week of January 2022. They likely already know what is coming and are front running it now.

3. To further fuel the fire, we could finally see a new U.S. Bitcoin ETF in Q1/Q2 of 2022.

4. We could see a new Bitcoin ATH and blow off top come mid year 2022.

5. China will of course retaliate by shutting down all onshore crypto exchanges, popping the Bitcoin bubble. Once again.   The bears will then take over. China PBOC will then print yuan like a mofo and bail out any and all Chinese property developers.

You heard it here first. Just doing this for funzies. Typing it here to see how well my prediction plays out.

Fyi, my former (bearish?) views are quickly being left in the rear view. Will always hodl no matter what happens.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Richy_T]

I’ll say it again - stupidity seems to be the rule here.
Greedy noobs, beware ffs, and DYOR.

It's an interesting study in human psychology for sure.

[Richy_T]

Problem is, noobs tend to assume everything in their Inbox is true and genuine. "But it was an email! To me! It had my name on it!" they scream, as if this somehow makes it genuine.

To be fair, email is a pretty shitty protocol by today's standards. Encryption and signing should be standard. Some email clients kinda-sorta can but it's not what you could call well supported. Even the web with it's broke-ass root CA system has managed to get everyone moving to https.

[fillippone]

You are kidding me, right? Worst advise ever.

No surprise the forum going downhill, its done a full 180° from the early days.

My point is even if I do self custody my sats, I reckon this is not for everyone.
Once the forum population was made by übernerds users, capable of handling the complex procedures required of a simple transaction (change addresses and everything).

Now crypto users are more diverse, and even the most technically advanced users could worry about significant others not so advanded, for a variety of reasons.

Regarding the “not your keys, not your coins” this is surely true, but as always it is a balance of risks. It depends where you live, how advanced is the legislative system, how worried are you about inheritance of your coins, how technical, and how many coins do you own. It is a little bit complicated than a “meme phrase”. And above all, the solution that is good for everyone of us can, and probably is, different.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Macadonian]

To be fair, email is a pretty shitty protocol by today's standards. Encryption and signing should be standard. Some email clients kinda-sorta can but it's not what you could call well supported. Even the web with it's broke-ass root CA system has managed to get everyone moving to https.

Some emails do encrypt the data on the backend I think. I think most email providers encrypt it on the backend because it makes it easier for normal people to use the email without knowing how to encrypt. I think it is well supported and it makes it easy to use. You cannot expect a 80 year person to learn about PGP and encrypt their own emails because it would reduce the people they could talk to because not everyone knows how to do it. I think encrypting it on the backend makes it easier for people to communicate quickly and safely.

You are kidding me, right? Worst advise ever. This is how fools and their bitcoins are parted since the genesis block.

I think you are missing what  fillippone is saying they are saying that if you are not technically minded enough to timelock your wallet then finding someone trusted who can do it for you would work. I would not recommend storing the Bitcoin with that person but you could ask them to setup the time lock. Time lock is probably the best option for releasing your coins after death to a family member.

[cAPSLOCK]

I will receive hell for this, but...

I read Bob's comments about his Lightning Node, and I wonder...

Is a Lightning Node a Black Hole for corn?  

Sheeeeeit!

Remember, these are dee InterToobz, and this was meant as a semi-joke, but to also raise an ant-flag about LN's efficiency.

Kind of.  Locking Bitcoin into LN channels is a sort of complex bargain.  But it enables you to use Bitcoin as a means of exchange with instant settlement and finality.  It's not going to be a good lace to put ALL your bitcoin.

The more I think about it the more the checking account analogy works.  You keep an amount of money that you need to be liquid in this account.  You might even take your paycheck there.  Pay for your groceries from there. But if you are a saver, and you spend less then you make, then eventually you will also want to move some of that value into savings on the base layer where it is more safe, and less mobile.

[BobLawblaw]

I will receive hell for this, but...
I read Bob's comments about his Lightning Node, and I wonder...
Is a Lightning Node a Black Hole for corn?  
Sheeeeeit!
Remember, these are dee InterToobz, and this was meant as a semi-joke, but to also raise an ant-flag about LN's efficiency.

Not sure, but throwing more liquidity into it, and making respectable effort to shill this thread.

Screenshot for 69 lulz. Just opened channel 70, so, yeah, wanted to catch this shot before I build out the next routes.

Kinda pain in my dick. Using https://lnrouter.app/graph for visualization. Select my node, then look at the graph of what I'm NOT connected to, way on the opposite side of where I am situated.

Appreciate the visualization tools, but the back-and-forth copying/pasting to 1ML to further vet the node is a micromanagement issue I'm not enjoying.

Anyway, off to get ready for party time later.

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

I see we're back up over $55k... currently $55070USD/$68678CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

Still digesting the last big leg up. Q4 rally should resume soon.

Go Bitcoin go.

People have long since forgotten that Vitalik actually said in the beginning [and I'm paraphrasing] that "Ethereum is NOT a competitor to Bitcoin. I didn't build it for that, and it's not suited for that. In fact, Ethereum should not be used as a form of money or currency like Bitcoin. Use Bitcoin instead."

I'm sure if what he said was written or captured somewhere on the internet, it has long since been buried or retconned. He would not want his beloved cult followers to know that he said or thought that.

Vitalik reminds me of Roger.

Both were early Bitcoin evangelists. Ver was "Bitcoin Jesus" and Buterin gave us Bitcoin Magazine.

Somewhere along the way both turned. Ver with his forkcoin trash and Buterin with his centralized, pre-mined, unlimited-supply scamcoin.

Now they're Bitcoin haters. I guess that shines a new light on their original intentions.

[AlcoHoDL]

You are kidding me, right? Worst advise ever.

No surprise the forum going downhill, its done a full 180° from the early days.

My point is even if I do self custody my sats, I reckon this is not for everyone.
Once the forum population was made by übernerds users, capable of handling the complex procedures required of a simple transaction (change addresses and everything).

Now crypto users are more diverse, and even the most technically advanced users could worry about significant others not so advanded, for a variety of reasons.

Regarding the “not your keys, not your coins” this is surely true, but as always it is a balance of risks. It depends where you live, how advanced is the legislative system, how worried are you about inheritance of your coins, how technical, and how many coins do you own. It is a little bit complicated than a “meme phrase”. And above all, the solution that is good for everyone of us can, and probably is, different.

Fully agree. WOers, tech-freaks and computer-literates may be able to handle BYOB, and even they can have unintended boating accidents. It's totally unfair to expect and demand such competence from the average person. Banks can help these people manage their Bitcoin, as is currently the case with fiat, and the same thing happens with so many other services, insurance, health care, legal/inheritance matters, etc. -- there's always a trusted party involved. The main point is that people should have a choice. Those that feel competent enough to manage their Bitcoin should be able to do so (as is currently the case), and those who can't should have a choice to let a trusted party manage it for them. It's already happening via exchanges. If I'm not mistaken, Kraken has bank status in the USA, so it's effectively a bank that can keep one's coins. Many of my coiner friends have all their coins in Kraken... I've tried to explain to them the "not your keys..." motto, but when I started talking about seeds, keys and h/w wallets it was just too much for them to handle. They feel their coins are safer in Kraken than in their own hands, and they're probably right.

Somehow I fear that, in the coming years, this choice we now have, to be or not be our own bank, will cease to exist, and we'll all be forced to use banks to store our corn. I hope it will never happen...

I will receive hell for this, but...

I read Bob's comments about his Lightning Node, and I wonder...

Is a Lightning Node a Black Hole for corn?  

Sheeeeeit!

Remember, these are dee InterToobz, and this was meant as a semi-joke, but to also raise an ant-flag about LN's efficiency.

Kind of.  Locking Bitcoin into LN channels is a sort of complex bargain.  But it enables you to use Bitcoin as a means of exchange with instant settlement and finality.  It's not going to be a good lace to put ALL your bitcoin.

The more I think about it the more the checking account analogy works.  You keep an amount of money that you need to be liquid in this account.  You might even take your paycheck there.  Pay for your groceries from there. But if you are a saver, and you spend less then you make, then eventually you will also want to move some of that value into savings on the base layer where it is more safe, and less mobile.

What you're saying makes sense. LN for petty cash and everyday expenses, and on-chain for savings. I get the sense that once you put some coins in LN, they stay there forever until you spend them (this sounds wrong and it probably is, but it feels that way to me -- total LN noob).

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[cAPSLOCK]

There are professional for the custody (want a name? checksig.io).
This doesn’t make a lesser bitcoiner if you give your coins to someone that knows how to store them (definitely, not an exchange).

You are kidding me, right? Worst advise ever. This is how fools and their bitcoins are parted since the genesis block.

How does the deposit process work?

Send us a request and we will reply with a destination address using both email and a fully encrypted chat (WhatsApp, Telegram, or Signal). You can then transfer your Bitcoin to that address, and we’ll send you a formal deposit receipt when the transaction is confirmed.

If needed, our team can also assist you, in person or videoconference, in a simple step-by-step process to send your Bitcoin to our address.

I would be VERY uncomfortable storing significant wealth with a full custody custodian.  ESPECIALLY when it's Bitcoin.  Just the regulatory and counter party risks together are enough to scare me pretty badly.  And I do not really see a difference between these and an exchange. NYKNYC plain and simple.

But I also understand that keeping your bitcoin in you "coinbase wallet" is about as much as many people can handle.  And self custody is too complex AND risky for the masses.

So we have (still) a real conundrum here.  What are the safest ways for a person to store their bitcoin in a way that they retain control, but is also simple enough for the masses and protects adequately against all the "foot guns".

Personally I think the best middlegrounds currently for Bitcoin custody are the multisig setups like:

https://keys.casa
https://unchained.com

But these are still kind of complicated.  And currently I think that is because all the options are still fairly black and white.

I also think there some interesting possibilities that might emerge from 2nd layers.  Liquid's federated model allows for introducing amounts of trust somewhere between all and nothing.  So I think it will be interesting to see what that company works on as I think they are a little ahead of the curve in regards to trust models.  I also think we might see some creative things around lightning where trust can also possibly introduced in pieces.

In the end, Joe Sixpack is going to need someone to hold his hand.  It might be a custodian, or exchange, or maybe it's Brother-in-law Billy.

I actually thing there is a lot of opportunity for business to be developed in this area.  And to that point I do not think Blockstream's recent funding infusion is surprising.  They are probably the furthest out in development of the sorts of products and systems many are going to need.