Richy_T
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December 23, 2021, 02:14:58 AM |
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Printing the BIP-39 words and draw them from a hat can't be messed with and is rather fool proof. The seed words are just concatenated and then hashed. There are plenty of other ways a seed with enough entropy and randomness could be generated. Rolling a die would be pretty hard to beat.
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sirazimuth
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born once atheist
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fence buddy thread farmer moon sandwich mind spare banana joke lousy articles coat which die blocked discussion seconds steam hashed just debate boy seed
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Richy_T
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1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
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December 23, 2021, 02:32:37 AM |
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Here. That'll be 30k. Uh, I mean 300k. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMDjZpoL.jpg&t=665&c=VuA2AW3ey48-ig) Yeah...but which one is it? Lol I actually changed the "or to" to "of" I spent several hours this afternoon just trying to come up with some odd combinations. Possibly it has revealed to me the entity behind the deep state. This, though is what I got when I asked for a Giger/Escher mashup. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fb2zE2ZM.jpg&t=665&c=1PL_zctTLbxxaA)
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JayJuanGee
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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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December 23, 2021, 02:49:10 AM |
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fence buddy thread farmer moon sandwich mind spare banana joke lousy articles coat which die blocked discussion seconds steam hashed just debate boy seed
Is all that gobbledy gook going to help with UPpity..? because if so, you can count me "in"... In the past day and a half or so, I was starting to develop some contentment with $49k, even though it was mostly ONLY lower $49ks and sometimes bouncing into the upper $48ks and then just in the past few hours causing less contentment by dippening into the lower $48ks which started to make me wonder whether we might not never see $49k ever again.. .. but then alas here we are in the past hour-ish gravitating back into the upper $48ks... so no need to worry about seeing $49k again, right? Right? Anyhow, go gobbledy gook, go.. make it so... when I refer to "it" I am trying to mean Uppity.
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Biodom
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December 23, 2021, 02:59:38 AM Last edit: December 23, 2021, 03:45:35 AM by Biodom Merited by JayJuanGee (2) |
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Today's discussion about wallet security made me think: The idea about "not your keys, not your btc (or anything else)" is extremely difficult to explain to no-coiners or to even any non-technical people.
How to solve this to bring bitcoin to billions? Some upcoming solutions are Orwellian-some token wants you to scan your retina. Yikes! What could be better without writing down words or an extremely long string of letters and numbers? Some people/projects are claiming that they would provide decentralized identity. I am VERY skeptical of this for the moment.
It seems that at some point there will be an adequate phone wallet with both advanced (to get your private keys) and basic functionality (for noobs). I looked into wallets and some are gaining more and more functions lately and seem on the way to a more polished product. Maybe a good phone wallet is going to be a solution.
Additionally, financial institutions might eventually do 80-90% of custody. They already approved Anchorage for institutional deposits, maybe something else (could be Fidelity) is coming for retail later.
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ChartBuddy
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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
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December 23, 2021, 03:01:39 AM |
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Biodom
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December 23, 2021, 03:06:22 AM Merited by sirazimuth (1) |
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fence buddy thread farmer moon sandwich mind spare banana joke lousy articles coat which die blocked discussion seconds steam hashed just debate boy seed
Is this a donation to the cause OR Chrismas present to the guy/gal with the fastest draw? Too lazy to check.
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Syke
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December 23, 2021, 03:37:22 AM Merited by JayJuanGee (1) |
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It seems that at some point there will be an adequate phone wallet with both advanced (to get your private keys) and basic functionality (for noobs). I looked into wallets and some are gaining more and more functions lately and seem on the way to a more polished product. Maybe a good phone wallet is going to be a solution.
I like how Muun does it. https://blog.muun.com/why-not-just-a-mnemonic/
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cAPSLOCK
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Whimsical Pants
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December 23, 2021, 03:50:55 AM |
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The most important advantage in them is hard to see at first: Secure XPRV (seed, XPUB etc) generation. Hardware wallets are the ONLY foolproof way to make a bitcoin seed. So far there is no other way that is safe, that also is not prohibitively difficult/risky. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FH9dohIM.png&t=665&c=UoYznGTSJtOWVw) I get your point and agree. But what if the hardware wallet has a whole bunch of predefined seeds, and one day are all swiped empty? What if the seed generation turns out to be not truly random? (using an extended passphrase on top of the seed mostly solves this, and/or multisig) Printing the BIP-39 words and draw them from a hat can't be messed with and is rather fool proof. The problem with that is how are you going to arrange those 24 words into a key? You CAN... using a little math, but it's not easy for most of us. Most of us would use a computer. And then we are back to the same issue. I do something like you say (but with dice, cards, or coinflips) entirely because of the issue with the random number generator, but I use a hardware wallet to make my keys. *That* is a pretty easy upgrade. But the moment a computer is involved? You are back in the hot water...
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ChartBuddy
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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
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December 23, 2021, 04:01:27 AM |
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Richy_T
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December 23, 2021, 04:17:39 AM |
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The problem with that is how are you going to arrange those 24 words into a key? You CAN... using a little math, but it's not easy for most of us.
You can enter the words into a hardware wallet just like a backup.
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shahzadafzal
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December 23, 2021, 04:23:04 AM |
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Just a casual reminder on the topic in discussion ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fo2szORt.png&t=665&c=o0_OZM7S93-q-A)
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Gachapin
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bitcoin retard
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December 23, 2021, 04:43:45 AM Last edit: December 23, 2021, 04:54:46 AM by Gachapin |
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The most important advantage in them is hard to see at first: Secure XPRV (seed, XPUB etc) generation. Hardware wallets are the ONLY foolproof way to make a bitcoin seed. So far there is no other way that is safe, that also is not prohibitively difficult/risky. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FH9dohIM.png&t=665&c=UoYznGTSJtOWVw) I get your point and agree. But what if the hardware wallet has a whole bunch of predefined seeds, and one day are all swiped empty? What if the seed generation turns out to be not truly random? (using an extended passphrase on top of the seed mostly solves this, and/or multisig) Printing the BIP-39 words and draw them from a hat can't be messed with and is rather fool proof. The problem with that is how are you going to arrange those 24 words into a key? You CAN... using a little math, but it's not easy for most of us. Most of us would use a computer. And then we are back to the same issue. I do something like you say (but with dice, cards, or coinflips) entirely because of the issue with the random number generator, but I use a hardware wallet to make my keys. *That* is a pretty easy upgrade. But the moment a computer is involved? You are back in the hot water... As I understood it, you generate a seed with external entropy (dice, cards, or coinflips)... How do you then compute the checksum within the seed without a computer before putting everything into the HW? Thanks! Edit I just found out that coldcard offers that option. So I guess I have my answer..?
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ChartBuddy
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December 23, 2021, 05:01:27 AM |
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dragonvslinux
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December 23, 2021, 05:16:23 AM Merited by JayJuanGee (1) |
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In the past day and a half or so, I was starting to develop some contentment with $49k, even though it was mostly ONLY lower $49ks and sometimes bouncing into the upper $48ks and then just in the past few hours causing less contentment by dippening into the lower $48ks which started to make me wonder whether we might not never see $49k ever again..
.. but then alas here we are in the past hour-ish gravitating back into the upper $48ks... so no need to worry about seeing $49k again, right?
Right?
$47K-48K will hold this time around I think, in order to create a higher low on the 4hr. Bears failed to push price below $46K which is a sign of weakness, even if $49K showed lack of buying pressure. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs3.tradingview.com%2Fsnapshots%2Fy%2FYGMKC63p.png&t=665&c=krzOlx9a8TozWA) This is now the re-test of long-term spport. Going below $47K again won't be pretty, and likely lead to $40-44K re-test. But for now long-term support remains in tact, just further confirmation is needed. The order books are looking more balanced now, so at current prices it seems relatively neutral, as opposed to at $46K when there were 2x more buy orders than sell orders. I'd expect the buy orders to outweigh the sell orders again if price get's back down to the 200 Day MA, so without a(nother) high volume sell-off, I don't really see any reason why we'll see lower than $45K, where a decent sized buy wall remains. On another note, haven't seen the strength of the price this high since November 10th, which is a good sign, as has made a higher high since the sell-off. The bullish divergence is still playing out nicely for now: ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs3.tradingview.com%2Fsnapshots%2Fw%2FwD87usMm.png&t=665&c=se_Xp3DjGA6koQ) Either way, within 8 days it'll all become clear. Either long-term resistance turned support holds and price moves up, or shorter-term resistance holds and price moves further down.
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shahzadafzal
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December 23, 2021, 05:27:54 AM |
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ChartBuddy
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December 23, 2021, 06:01:35 AM |
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cAPSLOCK
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December 23, 2021, 06:01:57 AM |
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The problem with that is how are you going to arrange those 24 words into a key? You CAN... using a little math, but it's not easy for most of us.
You can enter the words into a hardware wallet just like a backup. Yes! This is what I do. I's just so important to emphasize the need to stay away from computers to make the seed. I still read people talking about using air-gapped laptops and Tails etc.
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cAPSLOCK
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December 23, 2021, 06:15:33 AM Last edit: December 23, 2021, 06:25:47 AM by cAPSLOCK |
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The most important advantage in them is hard to see at first: Secure XPRV (seed, XPUB etc) generation. Hardware wallets are the ONLY foolproof way to make a bitcoin seed. So far there is no other way that is safe, that also is not prohibitively difficult/risky. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FH9dohIM.png&t=665&c=UoYznGTSJtOWVw) I get your point and agree. But what if the hardware wallet has a whole bunch of predefined seeds, and one day are all swiped empty? What if the seed generation turns out to be not truly random? (using an extended passphrase on top of the seed mostly solves this, and/or multisig) Printing the BIP-39 words and draw them from a hat can't be messed with and is rather fool proof. The problem with that is how are you going to arrange those 24 words into a key? You CAN... using a little math, but it's not easy for most of us. Most of us would use a computer. And then we are back to the same issue. I do something like you say (but with dice, cards, or coinflips) entirely because of the issue with the random number generator, but I use a hardware wallet to make my keys. *That* is a pretty easy upgrade. But the moment a computer is involved? You are back in the hot water... As I understood it, you generate a seed with external entropy (dice, cards, or coinflips)... How do you then compute the checksum within the seed without a computer before putting everything into the HW? Thanks! Edit I just found out that coldcard offers that option. So I guess I have my answer..? Yeah that's a cool feature on the cold card. But you can also concatenate the random numbers into a long string and do the lookups via a table... For me that's about as complicated as I care to get. I used to have a PDF somewhere... but I just found this Spanish one: https://estudiobitcoin.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/V00-Semilla-de-moneda.pdfMaybe I am a goober but there is something about calculating the seed mechanically. And even if you use a binary item, like a coin flip, it's not too hard to put 32 coins in a cup, and shake them out 8 times and write them down. Somehow good for the soul. And it makes the calculated addresses shine just a little brighter. ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Gachapin
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bitcoin retard
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December 23, 2021, 06:42:39 AM |
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The most important advantage in them is hard to see at first: Secure XPRV (seed, XPUB etc) generation. Hardware wallets are the ONLY foolproof way to make a bitcoin seed. So far there is no other way that is safe, that also is not prohibitively difficult/risky. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FH9dohIM.png&t=665&c=UoYznGTSJtOWVw) I get your point and agree. But what if the hardware wallet has a whole bunch of predefined seeds, and one day are all swiped empty? What if the seed generation turns out to be not truly random? (using an extended passphrase on top of the seed mostly solves this, and/or multisig) Printing the BIP-39 words and draw them from a hat can't be messed with and is rather fool proof. The problem with that is how are you going to arrange those 24 words into a key? You CAN... using a little math, but it's not easy for most of us. Most of us would use a computer. And then we are back to the same issue. I do something like you say (but with dice, cards, or coinflips) entirely because of the issue with the random number generator, but I use a hardware wallet to make my keys. *That* is a pretty easy upgrade. But the moment a computer is involved? You are back in the hot water... As I understood it, you generate a seed with external entropy (dice, cards, or coinflips)... How do you then compute the checksum within the seed without a computer before putting everything into the HW? Thanks! Edit I just found out that coldcard offers that option. So I guess I have my answer..? Yeah that's a cool feature on the cold card. But you can also concatenate the random numbers into a long string and do the lookups via a table... For me that's about as complicated as I care to get. I used to have a PDF somewhere... but I just found this Spanish one: https://estudiobitcoin.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/V00-Semilla-de-moneda.pdfMaybe I am a goober but there is something about calculating the seed mechanically. And even if you use a binary item, like a coin flip, it's not too hard to put 32 coins in a cup, and shake them out 8 times and write them down. Somehow good for the soul. And it makes the calculated addresses shine just a little brighter. ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I have never done it that way. Will def. try... with soul... Very nice ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Thanks so much for the info!
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